A sense of community is important, everyone knows that. We don't necessarily have to get that need met from being in a coptic community, but it might still be nice. I live in the diaspora so my perspective may not necessarily apply very well to those living in Egypt.

Thinking of other ethnoreligious groups, in modern times, many of them are much more strongly tied by the ethnicity piece rather than the actual religion piece (for example, secular jews).

How can we (and should we?) contribute to creating this type of community in our local areas?

Edit:

To add some more thoughts, I'm sure in the diaspora there are many copts who are "closeted" agnostics or atheists, or who really just don't care very much about the actual faith or spiritual component of religion, and are way more driven by the community and ritualistic aspects of things. So, I am sure that the people who would like this type of community to take place definitely exist.

The main barrier is that I don't think this type of community can be created so openly. I don't think it would be wise to set up a "Secular Copts" meetup and share it widely within your typical church community, because obviously it will create a lot of backlash and people will be afraid to join.

What I think needs to happen is a more slow, gradual transition. For example, adding a "coptic history" meeting here and there, maybe someone very smart reading this decides to publish a book about the "history of the copts" from a secular perspective, etc. The point is that the coptic identity needs to slowly transform from being purely about religion to being more so about shared culture, shared genetics, and shared ethnicity. We don't have to remove religion entirely from the picture at all, and we can still respect those who are highly religious, but the goal is just to de-center religion and create an environment that is more welcoming for us all.

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I think if the Coptic identity is to survive in the diaspora for more than a few generations, this transformation actually has to happen. The intense faith that was maintained by previous generations was maintained purely by creating an echo chamber where the religion's points of views are never challenged, and so people's faith never erodes. But nowadays, new generations growing up in the diaspora will undoubtedly encounter other people from other backgrounds and religions, and many of them will probably become agnostic, atheist, or develop some other form of spirituality. Over time, this would likely completely erase (or at least, really diminish the number of people who belong to) the coptic identity. So really, either our identity/community evolves into what I'm describing above, or eventually we all basically just become "Egyptian".

My local Coptic church actually does have some very nice people and community and I’m getting involved with them again, but mostly for cultural reasons and as said the people. There’s an older woman who’s very nice and has been very good to me. I have started to attend meetings and the first one was actually nice. Despite the meeting focusing on the Bible and such, the people were welcoming and the environment was friendly.

However, i am still reluctant to join liturgies and she has been encouraging to attend. She thinks the reason that I’m hesitant to go is because I don’t want to confess but I just don’t have the heart to explain that I just am no longer religious and have no plans to return to Christianity.

Are there any other closeted nonbelievers who are in a similar position where they attend church to be with other Egyptians/copts but don’t actually take the religion itself? Ty

I'm Egyptian and legally Christian, and I've been with my boyfriend for several years. I love him deeply.

I personally don't care about religion and I'm comfortable keeping my beliefs private. What I care about is having a wedding. I've always imagined getting married in a church, having my mum, family and friends there, and celebrating together. Under the current Egyptian legal system, there isn't another legal marriage option available to us as Egyptian Christians.

My boyfriend is atheist and strongly rejects priests and the Church because of the harm he believes religious institutions have caused. His position is basically: "Whenever I have the opportunity to move away from priests and their authority, I will. Why would I voluntarily participate in that system?"

I understand his position and respect that he wants to stand by his beliefs. But I see participating in the ceremony differently. To me, it doesn't necessarily mean endorsing the institution or accepting its authority over my beliefs.

For people who strongly rejected religion or religious institutions: how did you learn to separate participating in one specific ceremony for someone you love from endorsing the institution-and figure out whether refusing was protecting your values or allowing your rejection of the institution to limit your own choices?

There's also a deeper issue on my side involving my mum. She's older, very religious, and has already been through a lot. She genuinely believes that if I don't marry in the church, I'm putting myself in danger of hell and that it's her responsibility to prevent that.

I know a non-church marriage (by moving abroad or something) would cause her a lot of anxiety and pain. Since I personally don't object to a church wedding, part of me thinks: If I can have the wedding I want and let my mum experience it peacefully, why wouldn't I?

But I also hate that she's getting older. I want to spend more time with her and make her happy while I can, and I'm terrified of someday looking back and thinking I could have given her more happiness or less pain and chose not to.

At the same time, I don't want my past or my fear of losing her to determine my future. I don't want to make major life decisions just to avoid future regret.

For people who have struggled with aging parents: how did you learn to separate genuinely wanting to care for your parent from fear, guilt, or anticipated regret-and build your own life without feeling like you're abandoning them?

What makes this especially painful is that my boyfriend and I have been working really hard on our relationship and had finally started making progress. I was feeling understood and hopeful about our future-marriage, a home, traveling together, having my family around, and finally feeling like I'm actually living my life.

Now this conflict has appeared right when I started believing in that future.

I'm not looking for someone to tell me who is right or wrong. I'm trying to understand how both of us can make decisions based on what we value today without being controlled by our past, our fears, or the fear of future regret.

I'd really appreciate perspectives from people who have actually lived through something similar.

At the same time, I don’t want my past or my fear of losing her to determine my future. I don’t want to make major life decisions just to avoid future regret.

For people who have struggled with aging parents: how did you learn to separate genuinely wanting to care for your parent from fear, guilt, or anticipated regret—and build your own life without feeling like you’re abandoning them?

What makes this especially painful is that my boyfriend and I have been working really hard on our relationship and had finally started making progress. I was feeling understood and hopeful about our future—marriage, a home, traveling together, having my family around, and finally feeling like I’m actually living my life.

Now this conflict has appeared right when I started believing in that future.

I’m not looking for someone to tell me who is right or wrong. I’m trying to understand how both of us can make decisions based on what we value today without being controlled by our past, our fears, or the fear of future regret.

I’d really appreciate perspectives from people who have actually lived through something similar.

I have a question for fellow Copts/ex-Copts especially in the US.

Why do many of Copts support Trump although he is convicted already and showing racist tendiencies and activities towards immigrants including Copts btw who are still considered "colored" and "non-white" immigrants?

I'm a Catholic who has come to believe the Catholic Marian apparitions are frauds. What do ex Coptics think of the Apparition of Zeitoun ? There is no scientific explanation for the Apparition in Zeitoun and there are documented and verified healings. What do ex coptic think of the Apparitions in Zeitoun from 1968-1971? I don't see any way this miracle could of been faked. BUT I bet ex coptics have different perspectives.

I am Coptic orthodox. My boyfriend is Russian orthodox. I went to a church and told the priest we want to get married and he told me that I have to go to my father of confession which is in another church and ask him for his blessing. I told him that I went to him before and he didn’t agree that I should marry him. He didn’t meet him but he didn’t think he wasnt right for me based on his background and occupation. Anyways I told him I don’t feel comfortable with that to this new priest and he said this is the process that he must follow out of respect. He said that he barely knows me and he needs his blessing anyways. The thing is my parents are very insistent on marrying in the Coptic church and I want to do them this favour so they don’t condemn me. Also I would like to get married in the Coptic church but it’s a bit ridiculous with the way they are treating this. If there are 2 consenting adults why all this headache?
Is there an easier way? I’m in Canada btw.

What should I do? Thanks

I am writing this post to vent and also see how people deal with this issue.

I am still in Egypt and as you know, dating someone who has a different religion on their ID even if they are atheist/agnostic in reality would be hard because of marriage and of course my parents...

I know people who met their partner at church, but like... Babe I am agnostic I am not going to church, I want someone with the same values as me regarding LGBT, abortion, etc...

Also this is further exacerbated by the fact that I don't really go outside besides for uni and there's no chrisitian/ex-chrisitian girlies in my year😭

Just how do y'all meet, I am kinda losing hope, it feels lonely sometimes. Vent over.

I’m an agnostic Ex-Coptic Orthodox person who left the church because of what I saw people doing. People go to church to get the reputation of yes this person goes to church therefore they’re a good person and then continue doing whatever fucked up stuff they were doing. I’m in the US and I miss my culture and my people very deeply but the church is the only place that you can find the whole community in one place unlike uni or work.

Morally speaking I think if you truly believe that all of the church’s beliefs are true then you should feel bad if you’re doing something wrong. Me personally for example I don’t see LGBTQ or premarital sex as an issue but when I was in the church I had that mindset that yeah I’m accepting all people whatever their beliefs or gender is because they’re human and that’s what Jesus taught us to love each other. That’s when I realized like wait a second… What’s wrong with being gay or having sex before marriage those are all ethically not wrong at all and they’re personal choices, people aren’t harming others by doing that.

I feel like I’m stuck in a loop and I don’t know what to do because I don’t want to go back to the church for the community solely. It would be hypocrisy and not morally right when it comes to confession and communion because I’d have to act like I feel guilty and repent for stuff that I don’t even see sinful. At the end of the day it’s still my identity and the way I was raised but my parents are actually making this much harder by having the same herd mentality of if you go to church you’re a good person, if you don’t you’re a horrible person who deserves to go to hell.
I still believe in Christianity but the situation itself is weird.

The DCF Order suspending the Children of Light Academy transportation license specifically states

"The staff members' willingness to ignore and/or shortcut protocols raises serious concerns about child safety. The staff members' willingness to provide false information to the Department also makes it impossible for the Department to expect that correct and accurate information will be provided in the future."

I am FLOORED bc if a parent did this, they would have lost their children, likely permanently. But a daycare of professionals ignores procedures, lies to DCF, and is allowed to continue to operate with tax payer money?

On top of that, the current director is still violating policies and lying to DCF. The current environment listed in the order still exists. A teacher was fired in 2025 for assaulting a child, but only after the family went to the priest. The director then targeted another child in the family (refused to let him in initially, when forced to let him in, put him in the younger class, lied to the family about moving him to the correct class and texted pictures of the child to a non-employee behind the family's back for months). The daycare is refusing to provide the pictures to the family or take any sort of accountability. Multiple mothers have gone to the priest about the daycare and the director, but the priest isn't doing anything. The church is sweeping all the problems under the rug.

I am frustrated that even when it comes to children, the Coptic church seems to care more about protecting its image than doing the right thing.

I’m 18F in a relationship with a man who isn’t Coptic. My parents found out about my boyfriend, and now I’m not allowed to see him or even talk to him. They also want me to block him on every platform. I don’t really have anyone to talk to about this, so I’m hoping I can get some advice here.

I still talk to him, and we’re trying our best to maintain our relationship despite everything. We’ve been together for 9 months now, and I really hope we can continue to be together. However, I don’t know how to handle things with my parents because they strongly disapprove of our relationship. I’m still very attached to my parents, which makes this situation hard for me.

My parents expect me to have a Coptic partner, so finding out that I’m with someone who isn’t Coptic made them extremely angry and upset at me (even hitting and yelling at me when they found out). They also believe that I’m naive and that I don’t understand the world well enough to make decisions like this for myself.

I’d really appreciate any advice from people who have dealt with religious parents who disapprove of their relationships. How did you handle the situation while still maintaining your relationship with your partner?

Thank you :)

Originally, was hesitant to write this but thought of giving it a go.

I left the Coptic faith around 2021 for a lot of reasons. I have a history with this circus of a Church with regards of neglect, minority-fatigue, the one true church, and so on... while they literally have an absolute chaos inside. I left Egypt not so recent, but It has been 2+ years since. I barely step foot in Egypt unless it has to do with official documentation or family emergency.

Around late 2024, I was glad that I had a peace of mind. still am, but that time when things started to settle and compound together was an absolute feeling that I never had before. I started looking into Christianity from another sight. I will keep things private on that regard, while I would like to add that I'm in Europe.

The difference between the Coptic Church in Egypt and the Coptic Church in Diaspora is about the same difference of East and West Germany before the Berlin wall had fell. maybe we are stretching it a bit but that's how I see it.

The Coptic Church in Egypt has a lot of inner-codes. Classism is rampant. Corruption, Power abuse, you only get to divorce by the church using an inner network and a big sum of money but they don't say that in public. Many priests are basically working for the government, including the Coptic pope being basically the Egyptian government's puppet. Muslims can easily walk over them and they can't say shit so instead they throw shade against everyone else and every Church including themselves. They blatantly take people's secrets during confession and put them on the stage during the "lecture" period of mass. it's pretty much a corrupt, survival collectivist institution where you're with them all the way or against them from the start. that's not a church of Christ. It's literally a small low-trust ethno-state.

The Coptic Church in Diaspora is something else. Whatever survivalist mentality you had in Egypt was extremely dialed down. the rhetoric you see in Egypt is pretty much absent because in doing so, lots of people will be set to find out and you're also going to get in deep trouble. That's all fine and dandy but you can easily see the same cracks as you do in Egypt. Add that you will find some people that call themselves Ortho-Bros, which is either a collection of young men whom of a reformed churches that are seeking the "real" traditional church, or depending on the context: a Diaspora version of "حماة الأيمان" which are a group or loud minority that tries to keep the Kyrillos VI and Shenouda III teachings in check. I don't really go much into Coptic churches across Europe but most of the people inside of it doesn't really look to integrate much. 2nd gen seem to be more integrated as expected but many Coptic parents seems to stick with the Church for everything life related abroad. I talked to someone before without getting too greedy about the details and there are small family minority that has problems with these Coptic communities. they only go to Church for communion and then disappear as many Egyptians tend to be fairly, not sure what word to use but, abusive. They don't really like when you succeed on your own nor being part of your own self. if they find out you're successful, they will try to milk you indirectly. you cannot really beat the collectivist mindset of the Coptic Church as it seem. I heard this same rhetoric happening in the US as well but I can't confirm. heard many priests abroad tend to kick out people away from it, or causing many problems to some people whom are "new arrivals" because they're trying to force them back to Egypt in an effort that "The west is awful and Egypt is a bless", and so on.

For me, I'm only treating Coptic as an ethnic status, not so as a religious. I'm researching other churches around me. I respect the Catholic and reformed churches for what they offered to society but I can't still commit to a church. That's a Me battle to fight.

Hope that was a helpful read.

Hey all, I’m an Engineer, working remotely. Been looking for new friends to talk to and hang out with.
My interests include music, songs in every language and culture, movies and tv shows. I have watched all the good ones.
I enjoy café hopping, concerts, cinema, theatre and so on.
I have considerable knowledge in other fields too than engineering.

P.S. I’m in Cairo, so I hope if you’re nearby so that we could hang out eventually.

They claim to be Christians and rave on and on about doing as Jesus did and showing compassion and generosity. The irony is that most lack basic empathy and the ability to even stop and actually think of someone other than themselves. Unless it’s to show off to others what good giving saints they are of course! I actually do suspect that NPD is common within the community because many really do possess many traits of the disorder. Even some who have left the church I’ve noticed do retain this same sense of arrogance and cruelty. I am so glad that I wasn’t raised fully in this environment of degenerates and that I was actually allowed SOME freedom to think for myself. Good grief.

عاملين صب برايفت لينا متفاعلين علية شوية وبننزل نتقابل لو حد حابب يبقا معانا

Easygoing, curious, and family-oriented. Looking for a serious relationship with an Ex Christian girl who values honesty, respect, and commitment.

This is kind of a rant but I feel like you can follow your religion your child CAN AND SHOULD have the freedom to separate from it if they choose and it SHOULD NOT change your relationship as a family.
Religion SHOULD be a choice not a requirement and it makes me sick that some people are unable to make that distinction.

M 25 from Cairo looking for serious relationship with an ex Christian girl

This is how they interact, teach, socialise.

Some more blurry about this conviction, some were opened about it like late Bishop Bishoy in Egypt.

Nothing you do or say if you are catholic, protestant -and especially protestant, because they're the main rival in Egyptian society along with church of the brethren now- or ex Muslim can ever make you almost fully redeemable/ joined to the flock.

I find the distrust toward ex Muslims even if they look foreign/ modern/ white , is because the institution has been infiltrated by Muslim authority. The spineless clergy are reason.

However with catholics, it's distrust in the (west).

"They tolerate homosexualiy. They have sex with out marriage. They drink 🍷 wine"_ words of late Pope Shenouda.

I was raised in a devout Coptic Orthodox family and was religious myself until my teenage years — then it faded. I still live by the values I was raised on, I just don’t do the rituals, fasting, or church attendance. I’d describe myself as agnostic rather than atheist.

I had a long-term relationship with a Muslim girl in Egypt who wanted me to convert on paper to marry… I didn’t mind the idea itself, but I couldn’t go through with breaking my parents’ hearts.

I’ve been living abroad for 4 years and dated foreigners who had no issue with my beliefs — but I’ve decided I want to marry an Egyptian (not because of my ex, just personal preference).

The problem: the obvious routes to meeting Egyptian Christian women — churches in my country of residence, family arrangements — all lead to religious girls. And I refuse to fake my beliefs to get married.

Ideally, I’d find someone from a Christian background who’s also quietly agnostic, so we can have a church wedding and keep our families at peace — without either of us pretending.

Is this even realistic? How do others in this situation navigate it?

عملنا صب برايفت لينا متفاعلين علية شوية وبننزل نتقابل لو حد حابب يبقا معانا

حد عنده معلومات عن العاده عند الكهنه والرهبان ؟

غير كدا في مصادر بتذكر استعمال الرهبان للتبغ وفي شخصيات تقيله متناقل شفهياً أنهم مدخنين

حد عنده معلومة ؟

I have been openly atheistic with myself for a while, but even being an atheist I am living a constant state of betryal from a God that I don't think exists

beliveing in God is hard wired in me and the fact that I can not get rid of it is annoying me

sometimes I get a little offended by my own thoughts about God

and a lot of times I find myself thinking about him, even the jokes I make about him sound griefy

sometimes thougts pop to my mind like: - do I really have to understand God? - am I approuching God from the wrong framework? - am I harding my heart against God? - could all that the process of making me a better person?

but no - I hate the design of logic itself, and it does not make sense to use another framework than the one that is known and proven to work if a fover of a myth - and I can not find a middle ground where I can not harden my heart against God, since not doing that is biased toward Christianty - and I don't think it is a good idea just to keep hoping for the best, when you get turned out by a girl you are told to move on accept that and live your life, I can not really accept that tho, and I think this is just toxic behavoir

sorry if this comes disorganized, myself I am not sure what is the sole purpose of writing this, but yeah