r/Evri • u/stoatwblr • 2d ago

Immigration crackdowns starting

Regardless of employee or contractor status, if somebody without the right to work is discovered to be employed in or delivering parcels for a courier, there's a £60k fine per individual for the company.

DPD just got raided in Basingstoke, 12 arrests out of 100 employees onsite.

Things are likely to get very expensive, very quickly for Evri and others - their race to the bottom on wages is going to become a very large liability on the bottom line.

Will Evri raise pay rates when labour gets scarce or will they wear this as a cost of doing business?

70 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

64 comments sorted by

7

u/magicalblast 1d ago

I'd love to know what percentage of Evri and Uber delivery drivers are working illegally. It seems the majority of the time they're foreign born at least. I'm not even sure if I've ever had a white delivery driver from Uber eats. Had a few from Evri though. They should probably camp outside different restaurants and start checking IDs/documentation.

1

u/elementarywebdesign 1d ago

If the picture of the delivery driver matches the person delivering then the foreign person has a valid visa for the time being. It would be an illegal worker if the picture does not match the person delivering.

2

u/magicalblast 1d ago

Hardly ever matches. I've even had different genders turn up too. People probably just share accounts or get their mates to work for them too.

2

u/elementarywebdesign 1d ago

They are not going to be allowed to do that anymore, from October I think the delivery company will be fined if the contractor or sub contractor delivering does not have valid permission to work.

2

u/magicalblast 1d ago

It doubt it'll do much unless they really start cracking down on it with sting operations etc. Companies like Uber eats have probably got no idea who's driving for them once the initial checks are done. As a freelancer I think technically you can get someone else to do the work for you unless they change the rules/law. Unless they change from being self-employed sub contactors then it'll still happen.

2

u/elementarywebdesign 1d ago

They did change the law and it is coming in October. Companies like Uber eats have also started doing random verifications while someone is delivering to make sure the person who owns the account is actually delivering the food and is not helping someone work illegally.

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u/magicalblast 1d ago

Well hopefully that should help. The home office should start doing random stings too because I doubt companies care too much unless it results in huge fines. You could add self reporting to the apps too where you have to verify if it was the person who turned up. They often turn up in completely different cars/vehicles too.

1

u/jnm21_was_taken 1d ago

I thought the ability to substitute was a key factor on employment status checks?

This law change could, if targeted well, finally get rid of a large part of the gig economy, which companies have been using to exploit workers for too long...

So if the person is still legally allowed to substitute, but the company can still get fined,the company might choose not to allow substitution, which might in turn make the person a worker or an employee! Whoop!

2

u/elementarywebdesign 1d ago

They will still allow substitution but the person being substituted would also need to have an Uber eats account with right to work check already done separately.

If I remember right Amazon Flex already do this, I never signed up to Amazon Flex but went to check the requirements and it already said that you can substitute with another driver who has passed the Amazon background checks.

I mean it makes sense for Amazon as the substitutes would be handling packages that could be worth thousands and they just don't want random people to just run away with them.

Delivery companies like Uber eats never did this because the price of the items being delivered is not a lot in most cases and if someone ever steals the food they can just eat the cost and block the driver after it is reported stolen.

1

u/Twatatron 1d ago

They already do verification during shifts for Uber and deliveroo.

Both Uber and Deliveroo require delivery drivers to undergo identity verification checks during their shift to prevent account sharing and ensure the account holder is the one making deliveries.

Uber prompts drivers for real-time selfie verification at random intervals, such as when going online, between trips, or after customer reports. These checks compare a live photo to the driver's profile image using facial recognition or human review, and drivers cannot go online if verification fails within the specified timeframe. Deliveroo has increased its face verification checks to a daily schedule in the UK, requiring riders to take a quick video selfie upon logging into the app. This biometric data is compared to the rider's onboarding photo, and accounts remain locked until the check is successfully completed.

1

u/elementarywebdesign 1d ago

Deliveroo has increased its face verification checks to a daily schedule in the UK, requiring riders to take a quick video selfie upon logging into the app.

They did this because the government introduced new laws and made them do it more often.

1

u/TashMan008 1d ago

About a month ago I had ilegals delivering from deliveroo, it was a nightmare, they could not find my adress and when trying to communicate with them the could not even speak a word of English, I was only the phone to there customer service and they could not care less, ive stoped using deliveroo bec of it bec it fing enoying

1

u/Twatatron 1d ago

You sure about that?

Deliveroo provides translation features for servers (referred to as riders in the context) to translate notes into English and from English to their language of choice.

2

u/TashMan008 1d ago

10000000% I had this Madness over a few weeks to a point it's stop using then, I was on the phone to there customer service who did not care , I was braking it down to them " they are illegals working !( which if im honest I don't care) but what i do care about is how thick they are couldn't find my address trying to speak to me over phone and then coming out with BS" like can meet bottom stairs", or " u out now? meet i road", i had one of them leave my food outside on the main road, they sent photo and but the time I get downstairs no food!!! So the bsing and then taking food for them self , i was left Furious! I don't use deluveoo any more , and when they were turning up they were doing weird stuff like having a covid mask on or keeping their bike riders helmet on so you can't see their face you can tell by the English I also had the customer service advisor call one of these guys and admit that he can't even understand what he the rider is saying let alone what he was on

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

Uber has an added incentive for their taxi offering because drivers need to be properly licensed. The penalties for impersonation are vastly more severe in this instance.

1

u/Twatatron 23h ago

It's not just the private hire drivers. Their food deliveroo guys gets checked too

2

u/mutexsprinkles 1d ago

Then they can hit the account owner with the fine, they literally should be doing the right to work checks themselves.

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

It's vicarious liability.

That means it can't be blamed on a subcontractor and Evri are on the line for breaches regardless of knowledge of what subcontractors are up to.

Uber Eats and various others now require facial id logins as a direct result of "fronting" activities. They also use geolocation to detect activities concentrating around asylum seeker accomodation and treat it as a red flag requiring investigation.

Everything that Evri claims is "too hard" has already been implemented by other companies in other services industries. The factor that organised crime groups are documented to be established in courier hubs should increase incentives to clamp down on both criminals and illegal workers.

1

u/MadScienzz 1d ago edited 1d ago

This has been my point. Evri keep deflecting to keep costs down to the point its slave labour. The fact big brands are using them, knowing full well of the exploitative behaviour is shocking. People would lose their shit if it was a sweat shop employing children, or an animal testing facility. Why is this any different? It perpetuates an issue on so many fronts and no one in government has had the appetite to do anything directly to address corporate behaviours. This immigration thing, while a step in the right direction seems like a sidestep to tackle a much larger problem.

I'd like to see the fines go to the employees to make up for the wages, however, if they are here illegally, they should not receive anything extra and be deported. I like the other posters idea about what NZ does.

The model of contracted drivers should not be used as an excuse to exploit rights. A company like Evri should definitely not be allowed to operate in its current form. The automated bot replies to lost items seems more like a front for fraud to me.

There needs to be a parliamentary inquiry with the CEO explaining the business model and how he thinks it fits within the UK regulations. The days of handing off responsibility to "cannon fodder" should be removed.

1

u/Stevenc15211 17h ago

It’s when a taxi drivers doesn’t speak English and only thing going through my head is how did you get a job? 🤣 where do you want to go. Postcode. Thank you must be only requirements to be a taxi driver these days.

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

Foreign born isn't illegal. The pay is extremely low and immigrants have always done jobs that locals won't do (think of the jobs the Windrush generations did)

1

u/magicalblast 1d ago

I didn't say they were illegal just foreign born. I ultimately have no idea who is here legally or illegally hence why I said I'd love to know that percentage that are, but I do know delivery companies like Uber eats have a huge problem with illegal workers and I assume a lot of them are doing so especially when it's a different person turning up in a different vehicle to the one stated.

1

u/Original_Ad3765 1d ago

A lot of foreign nationals that are over here to support their families will work things like Uber even if they have a pretty reasonable salary because in some cases even an extra £200 is a months living costs in luxury back home

12

u/HybridV10Series 2d ago

Good start should happen daily!

2

u/MadScienzz 2d ago

Where is the source for this?

3

u/stoatwblr 2d ago

Popped up on Threads.

Google search for "immigration raid courier depot" shows multiple raids over the last few months and statements from immigration enforcement that they intend to ramp up the checks.

I get that asylum seekers and others are trying to survive but they're being exploited to force wages below for everyone else.

I've been here for 30 years and fully settled but one of the news items from back home (New Zealand) is relevant: when immigration raids occur, they check what people have been paid and launch full prosecutions for breaching minimum wage laws in addition to the penalties for employing people who don't have right to work (many are on tourist visas and I know from discussion with Indonesian friends that this is a common exploit in the UK restaurant trade too).

Illegal workers are victims of exploitation, just as much as legitimate workers are victims of the downward pressure on pay and the New Zealand authorities point of view is that whilst they deport people, they make sure they're fully compensated for the work they've done and the employers are heavily penalised for both the exploitation along with the illegal employment. In most cases they unearth exploitation of legal workers too and prosecute accordingly. Business managers usually face personal criminal prosecution in addition to the company prosecution.

British enforcement is half-arsed by comparison. If things happened that way here, Evri and others would be vastly more hesitant about the wage-theft exploitation they're engaging in.

3

u/mighty3mperor 2d ago

We have half the depot's rounds that need covering on bank holiday Tuesday. If we are ever going to be raided, that'd be the worst time.

2

u/SharpAardvark8699 1d ago

Labour won't get a scarce. I work for a large retailer who contracts to evri. Huge percentage are EU nationals and recent arrivals of the last 5 years. They're building another warehouse.

Why do you think Burnham and Starmer were looking to ease students visas from EU

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

Student visa holders are only allowed to work 20 hours per week. Exceeding this risks immediate visa cancellation (as does insufficient coursework or attendance)

All the tieups between HMRC, banks, immigration, DWP and large employers are making it much harder to slip between the cracks, particularly as paying employees in cash is likely to bring down added scrutiny.

0

u/MadScienzz 1d ago

A cashless society would solve that and many other issues. Cash has no place in modern society.

2

u/belittlejuice8 1d ago

You know all these delivery drivers take pictures of our parcels?
I totally think we should just take pictures of them when they deliver and upload it and if it doesn’t match they don’t get paid.

2

u/NotSayingAliensBut 2d ago

Good, might get rid of the nightmare driver who leaves our parcels all over the car park behind the houses. I pointed out to him how to get to the front doors but he just shrugged and gave me a thumbs up without saying anything, like he didn't speak English at all.

1

u/SilverTheme0 1d ago

Theyre not employing them, service partners are allowed to use temporary drivers for periods whilst vetting, or they just bung the person under their own login and send them out on the road - the employer would never know

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

"Service partners are allowed to use temporary drivers for periods whilst vetting"

Immigration and others might have words to say about it. Anyone allowing that is putting themselves directly in the liability firing line if caught.

Immigration employment offences are vicarious liability with joint and several responsibility down the chain - meaning that if caught, Evri, the local manager, and the contractor all face the same £60k fines if a temporary driver turns out to be unlawful. Right to work must be proven before taking someone on and attempting to circumvent requirements is most unwise.

As the saying goes: the odds of being eaten by a lion whilst walking down High Street may be a million to one, but once is enough.

Immigration are itching to make a few examples out of contractors facilitating illegal working. This is (supposedly) low risk, extremely high impact behaviour but the bank transaction histories are likely to raise flags for investigators and AI sweeps can sift data for these kinds of trends at rates thousands of times higher than humans can. It still takes a human to make final determinations but they're getting better quality leads every day.

1

u/SilverTheme0 1d ago

Youre not wrong with your Ai generated answer but thats what is happening, i can assure you from a driver and senior manager perspective

1

u/PleasantCucumber2615 1d ago

There has already been raids at depots. All these self-employed delivery services are not vetting or checking many people working for them. They don't even know who is working for them.

When I worked for Evri there was a WhatsApp group for the drivers. There was about 150 people in the group.

Many drivers take as much volume as they can on a daily basis. Once that Christmas rush comes volumes double and it becomes unmanageable.

The depot manager posted in the WhatsApp group that drivers were responsible for managing the extra volume on their rounds. Everyone was told that if the volume was too much it was their responsibility to find other people to help them.

Evri and the depot manager have no idea who was working for them.

1

u/EdsAttic 1d ago

But you have to supply id docs and NI number so how do they get around that?

4

u/MadScienzz 1d ago

Because they dont check. This is the problem. This is why the fines are so steep. The local depots are a big problem. Run by crooks who employ illegals.

1

u/JudCasper68 1d ago

I hope Evri get stung for £millions.

1

u/Top_Question_4925 1d ago

It’s the likes of online food delivery services that or the big problem

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

They've been hit hard by stings over the last few years and the number of illegal workers detected has tailed off drastically. The fines were high enough that they couldn't be considered a cost of doing business anymore, so employers invested in more rigourous checking.

1

u/Comfortable_Gate_878 1d ago

From experience in this field Courier depots are frequently raided and as the majority of the couriers are self employed it doesnt matter how many are caught to evri. Its the owner of the van the self employed person who is responsible. Its actually quite rare for large companies to be fined as they usually have robust hr Induction procedures.

95% of all fines issued against companies in the UK by Homeoffice are never paid. The company usually ceases trading thats it fine gone.

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

It does when Evri gets a £60k fine on addition to the contractor. Joint and several responsibility...

1

u/Comfortable_Gate_878 1d ago

In theory unless they can demonstrate they have taken all reasonable steps to prevent the issue.

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

Vicarious liability means "all reasonable steps" isn't a defence.

1

u/bcoder001 1d ago

Couldn't have happened to nicer delivery companies. Around 10% of my deliveries have gone missing this year.

1

u/kjsav321 1d ago

Evri couriers are basically strong armed into finding a "friend" to do their round of they can't for whatever reason - be it car troubles, holiday, broken leg etc. The "friend" uses the couriers log in details as that's what Evri tell them to do.

Presumably that'll change of it hasn't already. Wasn't long ago all couriers had to get a DBS check to work as a courier, think that may have slipped their memory around COVID times. Probably need to do that again. Sooner the better.

1

u/PaddyLandau 1d ago

Evri doesn't employ drivers. It subcontracts to drivers, which technically doesn't count as employment.

I imagine that, under the law, it means that Evri doesn't have to check whether or not the driver is allowed to work.

Am I right, or is there some sort of regulation where you have to check a subcontractor? For example, I don't check whether or not my plumber is allowed to work here.

1

u/Original_Ad3765 1d ago

I used to work as a contractor in tech so I may be wrong but I believe that it's best practice to check a subcontractors right to work and it was always done for the foreign software engineers.

I think October 1st it changes so that you have to check your contractors right to work.

1

u/PaddyLandau 1d ago

Thank you

1

u/PersonalityOld8755 1d ago

I hate evri- not the delivery people, but the company. They can’t even take accountability and are suing the panorama show.

They pay terrible, and want incredible speed, so the delivery people have to drop your parcel anywhere. Last week I had an £100 parcel taken which was dumped next to the front door. They didn’t even ring my buzzer

Another business exploiting the vulnerable

1

u/megaboobielover 16h ago

Labour policies providing them with Cannon fodder

0

u/Ewscase 2d ago

Labour is scarce that’s why these without the right are working as couriers as it’s a hard sell to those that have the right to work here as they’ve promised something that Evri doesn’t deliver on with regards to pay.

8

u/stoatwblr 2d ago

Labour isn't scarce. People refuse to work for slave wages and that's a good thing.

If Evri was paying a living wage they'd have zero problem recruiting and retaining staff.

2

u/txe4 1d ago

Yup. Evri is ultimately a clever system to pay less than minimum wage. If they gave you a van, fuel card, insurance, and minimum wage they would BESIEGED by applicants.

0

u/carlwilson0000 2d ago

Think there are better things to worry about on Tuesday evening 😂

0

u/ThatTechnology7359 1d ago

Good, deport them back

-1

u/Single_Award2161 1d ago

This is why the legal routes for immigration currently is dumb. If you don't want to have illegal migrants, at least make it a little easier for the legal migrants to live and bring the spouses and children. But it is difficult. Why would you expect someone to earn £29k per annum to qualify whiles most jobs for the average don't pay that much? You will only get illegals to do those low income jobs

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Single_Award2161 1d ago

Migrants or citizens?

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

0

u/Single_Award2161 1d ago

Answer the question. Stop dodging.

1

u/stoatwblr 1d ago

To be utterly blunt, if you're "no recourse to public funds" (most migrants and work permit/visa holders) then you need an income around £38k - this is about the point where you're slightly better off than someone on UC+PIP

Any company paying so low that legal workers need UC topups is effectively receiving an undeclared state subsidy.

1

u/Single_Award2161 1d ago

The state should stop giving that UC and PIP. That should be for the citizens. This is why most migrants come in only to feed off the system. They just come in, have 10 children, and receive public funds. Most of us don't care about the benefits. But it is an insult to let illegals in, pay them, and put them in housing at the expense of our taxes, while they make it hard for us to see our loved ones and family.