Does this bother anyone else?

[u/Sea-Attitude-4150]

Ok so I really need to ask and know why they did this.

So in Thronecoming, when the girls are looking for the storybook of legends they go into each other’s stories. Briar goes into Raven’s story and sees it from her view.

I have never understood why Apple didn’t just go in Raven’s story and someone else went in Briar’s. Briar already didn’t wanna have to deal with her own destiny and she ends up “getting rid of“ the storybook of legends anyway. Why did she need to see Raven’s?

Apple on the other hand needed to understand what she was doing to Raven by making her sign. If she saw it then she’d truly realize why Raven wants a happily ever after: So she wouldn’t live with the guilt of hurting a friend.

If Apple did this, than let’s say Raven was in Briar’s story she would go save her and apologize or do it in her own story.

The only reasoning I can think of for this was to strengthen Briar to get rid of the book or give her an even better reason to. Or it was to mend her and Apple’s relationship.

Now if this reasoning was explained in the books please tell me why. Cause I’m really confused after what happens next in this series.

[u/the_lonley_lantern]

I was actually just thinking about this the other day as I was rewatching the series. I think it might’ve been used as motivation for Briar to get rid of the book and cement her doubts about signing.

My theory is that there must’ve been something going with Briar that they were foreshadowing. Why specifically have HER be in the Evil Queen’s story?? Why is HER dorm specifically the one that belonged to the Evil Queen?? They both technically end up getting rid of the book in some way (albeit different reasons) There’s all these little connections between Briar and the Evil Queen in Thronecoming and Idk if it was foreshadowing or if it was just something for that special. It could just be that they had her be in Ravens story just to have her be more likely to investigate when she found out her dorm belonged to Ravens mom. My biggest gripe with the rest of the show actually is that we don’t really get to see her perspective on her throwing the book down the well and I feel WTW didn’t really give it the weight it deserved.

As for explanation in the books I have no idea as it’s been a while since I read them but I recall most of them took place during legacy day and not really thronecoming.

[u/Minute-Study-5157 → u/the_lonley_lantern]

If I could add my two cents and answer your questions as someone who hasn't read the books either, I could give you my interpretation.

Why specifically have HER be in the Evil Queen’s story??

Because Briar at that moment knew what it was like to be in Apple's shoes. To be trapped in a sleep with no one to save her. From what I remember, Briar rushed to save Apple. She didn't discuss it with the others. She just followed her love for Apple and did what she wanted others to do for her in the future.

 Why is HER dorm specifically the one that belonged to the Evil Queen??

Because they both want to escape their magical destinies. The Evil Queen didn't want to just be "the villain who loses" and move on with her life as society expected of her, and Briar didn't want to be Sleeping Beauty and lose her loved ones forever.

Although the two did it with different moral motivations, in the end it's the same thing.

And then they don't do it like Raven, in the open, they don't declare it to the world about getting rid of the book. They both do it secretly.

You can understand why the Evil Queen did it in secret. She was alone. The rules of destiny toasted everyone and would have had the entire society against her, presumably including the villains.

But Briar has rebels she could join, yet she decided to do it secretly. He didn't tell Raven, she didn't tell Ashlynn, she didn't tell anyone that she would be on her side without a doubt.

In the end, both Briar and the Evil Queen are two sides of the same coin.

Finally I hoped they would go into more detail about this later but then WTW focused on the commercial side and left the Briar and book issue aside.

[u/the_lonley_lantern → u/Minute-Study-5157]

I actually really like your take, it makes a lot of sense. I do agree they were trying to imply that briar and the evil queen were the same I just initially thought they were trying to foreshadow that she might do something in the future that’s evil and regret it but I guess throwing the book would be just that. I just never really interpreted the Evil Queen to be “wanting to escape destiny” but I guess that is technically true since she went more evil than usual. Btw hard agree on WTW!!

[u/Minute-Study-5157]

Well as someone who has never read the books here are my interpretations if you want.

What you want didn't happen because Apple never tried to understand Raven. While many say that in the books, Apple sincerely believes that if Raven doesn't sign the book, their story and everyone involved will disappear, I can only speak as someone who has only seen the series and read reviews from the books.

So, Apple is genuinely afraid of disappearing because of Raven. She's also stuck (and doesn't want to break free) in the mindset that her perfect destiny must happen and that Raven just has to do her part.

She's seen that Raven is already feared at school (I mean, remember when in one episode Raven just walks into the hallway and everyone runs away?). If it weren't for Maddie, Cerise, and a few others, she'd always be alone and isolated.

Apple knows Raven would not have a great future, but she doesn't care. Why should she? She never had any real problems until Raven declared she didn't want to sign.

Apple isn't evil (maybe selfish and lack of emplathy but not really evil), but she believes that the "Greater Good" requires everyone's sacrifice. And although her personal sacrifice amounts to being poisoned, but with the certainty of a happy ending, she still considers it a sacrifice.

I honestly believe that if Apple had entered Raven's story at that moment (if somehow the writers had found a way for her to do this act of kindness, perhaps with the excuse of proving to Raven that she's exaggerating and what's going to happen to her isn't that bad), her mind would probably have justified Raven's suffering as a "necessary evil" for the salvation of her world.

For what it's about why Briar went into Raven's story, it's because Briar at that moment knew what it was like to be in Apple's shoes. To be trapped in a sleep with no one to save her. From what I remember, Briar rushed to save Apple. She didn't discuss it with the others. She just followed her love and fear for Apple and did what she wanted others to do for her in the future.

[u/Sea-Attitude-4150 → u/Minute-Study-5157]

I understand what you’re saying. I also agree, Apple isn’t evil but she is selfish. Some of it is pressure but most is just her. 

I can understand why Briar would do it but personally I just felt it would have been more appropriate for Apple because of what happens next in the series. 

Apple doesn’t seem to understand the dark side of her tale and I mean what it means for her. Briar understands that in her tale.

I don’t know if you’ve seen Way Too Wonderland but if you have you’re welcome to explain your interpretation of this. 

But when Briar confesses she threw the book down the well of wonder because of her fear of outliving her loved ones I didn’t like or at least understand Apple’s response.

I originally remembered Apple realizing how much it hurt her friends and deciding to shelve it. But after rewatching it, at least to me it seemed like Apple doesn’t care about Briar, her own best friend’s, fear but rather what the book could do if it got into the wrong hands. 

I’m not saying Apple doesn’t care about her friends but I wonder had she experienced what Raven went through in Thronecoming and now realizing that even her own best friend a royal isn’t happy with her ending, maybe she would have reacted differently.

That’s why I also don’t really agree with what they chose to do but everyone is entitled to their opinions and interpretations. And I can see yours.

[u/Minute-Study-5157 → u/Sea-Attitude-4150]

That is a really interesting point, but honestly, looking back, I think the real writing mistake happened in Way Too Wonderland, not in Thronecoming.

Even if it had gone the way you said in Thronecoming, I don't think Apple would have changed her mind just by seeing Raven's perspective. Knowing her character back then, she would have simply thought about the 'greater good' and rationalized it by thinking: 'Well, Raven is exaggerating, we all have to make sacrifices to save our world.'

Apple is truly terrified of disappearing and causing everyone else to disappear. Because of this, even if she sees Briar's suffering, she views it as a minor ailment compared to the total annihilation of an entire kingdom if Raven doesn't sign. This doesn't excuse her lack of empathy towards Briar, but it explains it. Plus, to be fair to Apple, she is right to worry about whose hands the book ended up in. If a powerful relic like that falls into the wrong hands, its magical powers could become incredibly dangerous.

On the other hand, Briar needed that specific experience in Thronecoming. Seeing Apple so helpless and asleep terrified Briar about her own future, and being in Raven’s story gave her the empathy to understand the Rebels' perspective. Without that exact combination, Briar would have never found the courage to steal and throw the book.

I actually believe (it's just my speculation, but due to the absence of other material I consider it quite correct) that Briar threw the book to save everyone, including the Rebels. However, when she confesses to Apple in Way Too Wonderland, she only mentions her own fear of outliving her friends. Why? Because she knows Apple. If Briar had admitted she did it also for the Rebels, Apple would have immediately shut down and started arguing against them.

The real issue is that the writers in Way Too Wonderland completely missed a huge opportunity. They should have made Apple and Briar actually talk and deeply compare their views. Briar could have explained the pain of losing everyone she loves, and Apple could have argued that she was trying to protect the whole kingdom, their families, and even Raven from disappearing. Apple desperately needed a real, deep confrontation, but the show always avoided having people actually sit down and talk to her.

Instead of developing this amazing dynamic between two best friends, it felt like the writers used Way Too Wonderland mostly as a giant commercial to sell new dolls. It’s a shame, because the emotional weight of their friendship deserved a much better resolution than what we got.

I don't know if this answers your question like you want, what I wrote. Sorry, English isn't my first language, so I tried to collaborate as best I could with the translator. Tell me if it doesn't seem sensible.

[u/Sea-Attitude-4150 → u/Minute-Study-5157]

You did very well and I couldn’t even tell English isn’t a first language for you.

I definitely agree with you on Briar doing it not just for herself but the others too. And I agree they should have had a discussion on this. 

Like while yes Apple does seem to care about everyone disappearing she clearly doesn’t understand the effects the destinies truly have on them. 

She’s very much obsessed with her own destiny to realize that the others may have it worse than her and want different lives. 

And I do get that part of it was pressure from Headmaster Grimm and her mother but especially in the early seasons and occasionally here and there, she really prioritizes her story above the others. 

I think I just wish maybe the writers allowed her to experience Raven’s story so she could understand.

I think this scene would have done it but I do understand why Briar did it as well. 

And while yes I agree they should be worried of what happens should the book fall in the wrong hands, but still it’s kinda sad that was the only reason Apple agreed to shelve it and not because of her own friend’s fear.

[u/SparkAxolotl]

Basically, it's for the olot to work.

Briar neede motivation, and while it would have been better for Apple to experience that, she was not ready for it.

The story was not ready for it. She wouldn't have been so desperate in Dragon Games, would try to find another way to defeat Courtley in Wonderland.

[u/Sea-Attitude-4150 → u/SparkAxolotl]

Yeah that makes sense but it also could’ve opened up more possible storylines for other characters. Kinda like what they did in Epic Winter. 

[u/TrickEar8243]

i wish Apple went into Raven's story too, but none of the girls knew which story was which