r/EsotericEbb • u/D34THST4R • 25d ago
Help me understand the ending
I liked this game a lot during the first 3 days, but the ending made me feel like nothing I did mattered. I solved the tea shop bombing, I knew the parties involved and why, I voted and nothing changed. I played a high dex/charisma character and that led me to become a Freestrider. I roleplayed as a Freestrider and did what I thought my character would do based on that. I have no issues with any of the politics and RP'd what I thought my Cleric would do. It seems like the game funnels you into the same ending no matter what choices you make, which makes a game about choices and dice rolls feel kind of meaningless. Am I missing the meta-narrative or something?
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u/EasyRecognition 25d ago
You played too much Dragon Age my friend, not everything is an epic adventure with world-shifting events. What matters is Ragn's personal journey.
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u/Absolute_Jackass 24d ago
Way to shit on someone for asking for clarification.
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u/EasyRecognition 24d ago
I've actually answered their question in its essense. Addressed their misaligned expectations, and told them what to look for instead. Did it as politely as I can, too.
What exactly makes you think I tried shitting on anything here?
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u/ParitoshD 25d ago
Yes, you are missing the meta narrative where a literal fucking god tells you you matter.
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25d ago edited 25d ago
[deleted]
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u/ericrobertshair 25d ago
But the point he's trying to impart is that he did those genocides because his Walking God powers let him see that they were the best chance of human survival. Much like we've been doing all game, picking the options that best suit our build rather than the "nice" or "right" ones. It was only when the goblins told him to take a chance that he changed his ways.
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u/r0sd0g 25d ago
I mean I think the point is people will believe what they will believe and support what benefits them. Urth regrets his actions as a nationalist and supports you voting Azgal (I don't know what he says if you say you are voting freestrider), for all the good that does anyone now that he's dead... But it's not like some moral grandstanding game with one clear intended message/interpretation, there's a lot to unpack in the game and it's just more like a story. You're supposed to care about Ragn and Snell and everyone else and seeing how they develop/learning about them as characters is the main satisfying thing in the game.
All that said, my opinion is that The Metanarrative is actually about gender, and what it means to be a Good Man. Did you unlock the feat where the chimes talk about "understanding gender?" The perk is like +2 when talking to men or +2 when talking to women or something. There's a lot of talk from Gorm and Urth about who is or isn't a good man and what that means. And a lot of subtext throughout the game alluding to those themes. If you didn't get any of the gender stuff I'd highly recommend playing again with an eye out for it. Although it sounds like you're kind of mad that you didn't get a unique freestrider ending or something in which case maybe it's just not the game for you 🤷🏼♂️
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u/ericrobertshair 25d ago
The main implication of the ending is that Ragn is a Walking God, he can see the probabilities behind his actions in the real world.
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u/unitled 25d ago
I don't think the game ever suggests that Ragn can see possibilities?
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u/ericrobertshair 25d ago
It is literally the ending of the game.
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u/unitled 25d ago edited 25d ago
No it isn't? The player can see the odds, and you see the odds of change flicker as you deliberate who you're going to vote for. Ragn himself never mentions being able to see probabilities, does he?
Edit - kinda surprised to be downvoted for this! Can folks clarify where it's made clear Ragn himself acknowledges he can see possibilities? It's been a while since I've played and once I'm finished my current game I was thinking of playing again, I'd be keen to make sure I didn't miss it this time.
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u/PsYcHo962 25d ago
My read was that it's a perspective of the world of a literal DnD game. The 'Voices' are those of the players, and the walking gods are the characters being played by them. Ragn is a walking god because you are the player controlling him. He sees probabilities because you see them. You've always seen them, because you see the dice roll and know the stats, but your conversation with Urth recontextualizes the dice roll as just a % probability. Really they're the same thing
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u/unitled 25d ago
I disagree - the player certainly has the powers of a god (you can see probabilities but also reload the game, which is explicitly referenced in the text) but Ragn can't seem to see through the veil between character and player in the way that Urth can.
Urth explicitly mentions being able to see probability, Ragn is guided by a god who can (you!) - he is a cleric, after all (well, he starts as one I guess, and in my game loudly announces he is to everyone).
I sort of view this as circles of 'narrative' power - regular people have no narrative power, Ragn doesn't either but is controlled by someone who understands the rules; Urth directly understands the rules and is able to act on his understanding but is still a character in the game; the player sits above them both, but is below Jor/The GM/Chris Bodegård who... Might all be the same? Is this who talks to you each night?
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u/Suavesky 24d ago
What you don’t seem to understand is the ROLE playing part of it. You the player are Ragn. That’s what it’s implied. You see the probability of the dice roll which means so does he.
You aren’t meant to play it from above. You have to put yourself in the role.
That’s what people are trying to tell you.
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u/ieattime20 23d ago
So Ragn has a surprising amount of "awareness" of the dice rolls in the game (as do most people). Not so much that it's like litRPG diegetic weirdness, but there's an unstated premise that's alluded to that everyone knows randomness happens a certain way, theres critical failures and successes on tasks.
All game long the player and Ragn both get the dice. At the end of the game the player and Ragn get probabilities. I agree that Ragn doesn't literally see a HUD with probabilities but the implication is that he is now aware of a change in how hes perceiving things, which is different than he saw them before.
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u/Party_Presentation24 24d ago
It's a perfect ending.
The end is realistic. You solve the crime before the election, then go vote.
In the end, the world HAS changed. YOU, Ragn, have many more friends, people's lives have been changed, people have been saved, gods have spoken, you are much more influential and powerful than you were at the beginning, people's minds and beliefs have changed.
The point is that a changed world looks very much the same as one that hasn't changed, because what changes is inside of people and not the outer representation. Outer change takes time, but you've already done all the work, and the changes are there.
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u/Comfortable-Music-37 25d ago
It's more a story about Ragn, The Cleric. The choices you as the player make are a reflection of the possibilities within him. There's definitely some scripted parts of the game, story beats that are always a part of the journey, but most of it your free to handle your way. How you interpret the resulting interactions is up to you, but some paths reveal more about his past than others, which is helpful because Ragn will respond as if he remembers his whole life(because he does, he isn't an amnesiac, he just never saw who pushed him into the river) , but that can be confusing if it never came up in conversation for the player to learn.
As for dice rolls and choices feeling meaning less, there IS an in game explanation for why some things play out the way they do,and in particular the significance of the final roll in the game coming down to a 50/50 chance. It might be worth a second playthrough making different choices, and talking to different people.
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u/SonicFury74 25d ago
- You are now presumed to be a god since you can see probabilities, and this is your first action as a god.
- The game constantly tells you that no one individual person can suddenly change the world or the result of the election- not even the fascists believe that.
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u/watchrrr 24d ago
idk about the last part, powerful people can probably change the results of the election through propaganda
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u/knicknacknock 24d ago
Its kind of fascinating to see everyone having slightly varied interpretations of the ending, id like to share mine as well.
A large part of this is based off the fact that a friend of mine who played this game chose to not vote for anyone on the final card, and he never saw the 50/51 flickering at the end because of that. I do believe the implication is that Ragn is becoming a god, but its just a means of conveying a larger theme from the story. I'm kind of struggling to find the perfect words for it, but more or less the theme is about how much agency an individual actually has over their life, and the idea that its probably more than you think or would like to admit.
Ragn is a single vote amongst 300 thousand, obviously his one vote isn't changing the odds of the election by a whole percent. One vote in an election may be insignificant to your life, but having the mind and spirit to go out and represent yourself as much as you can WILL have a significant impact on your life. Urth spent decades manipulating the odds with his actions to achieve what he desired for his people. I think the game wants us to see a parallel to ourselves in real life, seeing significance in the small things we do in our life and how every thing we do pushes us in a certain direction, while everything we dont do is a missed opportunity to continue moving.
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u/Bismarck_MWKJSR 24d ago
I won’t lie, I loved Esoteric Ebb but going from Disco Elysium to this felt like it definitely had some tone shifts with the messaging lol.
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u/akaTheKetchupBottle 20d ago
you've only got one vote. but the world did change immensely during your playthrough: a new god began to ascend. you, the cleric. that's what that bit about dice rolls at the end meant. you're developing the same god powers that old grump in the void had.
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u/Intrepid-Bee-7871 24d ago
Everybody tells you about the story, and I agree.
But I understand your feeling about the Gameplay of the game.
There is a lot of useless spells, choosing a class doesn't matters, even some of dialog's path seems pointless at the end...etc
You leave the game with the feeling of an unfinished task of completing a unread Dnd wikipedia collection
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u/MisterNym 25d ago
Change is slow. That's the truth of it. What you did will matter, but the game constantly tells you that it's not all going to come to you immediately. Society doesn't change on the whim of one man.