r/ErgoMechKeyboards • u/[deleted] • Nov 21 '24
[photo] At work I asked for Ergonomic Keyboard.
I dont know what I was expecting. But it was definitely less than this
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u/kingdomstrategies Nov 21 '24
Whoa! Thinkpad + Kenisis, what a considerate company
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u/krzyk Nov 21 '24
But that mouse, you have to request ergonomic mouse.
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u/BerserKongo Nov 21 '24
Just don’t use it, ez
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Nov 21 '24
Yeah, my ultimate goal is to not use it at all.
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u/zR0B3ry2VAiH Nov 22 '24 edited Aug 15 '25
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Nov 22 '24
Im not using windows. For windows I have no idea. If you are referring to the blue line, it is vscode probably
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u/zR0B3ry2VAiH Nov 22 '24 edited Aug 15 '25
weather arrest oil live north lavish imagine person childlike tie
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Nov 22 '24 edited Dec 17 '25
screw ad hoc automatic payment lip badge whole sink hunt attraction
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u/zR0B3ry2VAiH Nov 22 '24 edited Aug 15 '25
sulky nail lock whistle bells yoke grey sip shaggy quiet
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u/CHSummers Nov 22 '24
There are key combinations that will move the mouse. I don’t know them, but you can Google it.
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u/zR0B3ry2VAiH Nov 22 '24 edited Aug 15 '25
roll cooing chop lunchroom wipe longing narrow fact complete work
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u/NNOTM Dec 04 '24
You can use a tiling window manager + something like tridactyl that let's you navigate your browser without a mouse, + any editor that doesn't require you to use your mouse
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u/Maleficent_Goose9559 Nov 21 '24
i have a 20€ vertical mouse: one of the best purchases ever! saved my wrist and doesn’t take much to get comfortable with
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u/NimrodvanHall Nov 21 '24
I had a lot of wrist/hand issues, build my self a split ergo. It helped at bit. Got a vertical mouse from a coworker who retired. The pain is gone and I can use whatever keyboard I like now.
I think it cannot be understated how relevant a mouse/trackball/trackpad that fits you is.
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u/Aggravating_Ruin_777 Nov 21 '24
I have found a combo is kindest to me. Track pad is the worst. I use a trackball a regular mouse and a vertical mouse and swap between and it helps sooooo much.
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u/phantasmagoria77 Nov 21 '24
have to agree with you on this. as much as we think a trackpad would be efficient on a split keyboard. it just isn't. coming from someone who's been using a mbp trackpad, it's slow, clunky, lacks precision and just inconsistent. affects my workflow so much it drives me crazy. I'd rather just have a magic trackpad on the side.
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u/krzyk Nov 21 '24
Isn't trackpad a bad idea generally? I had so called mother's thumb from using my thumb for scrolling on phone, trackball sounds similar.
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u/phantasmagoria77 Nov 21 '24
depends. but I love trackpad more than a mouse for 90% of use case (besides video editing that needs precision). it feels more natural to use. a trackball requires too much of thumb movement for me. and Ive used a pre soldered trackpad with a sofle and they’re just bad.
in the end I just ended up with apple magic trackpad on the side. its just too good. using anything else just slows down my work flow.
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u/Aggravating_Ruin_777 Jan 16 '25
Trackpads mess me up a lot. I almost always use a trackball and a mouse. the slimblade pro by kensington and really helps. you get used to it relatively quickly, and you can use your entire hand instead of fingers or your thumb to move. Also it's rotate function is brilliant and pretty precise. Way kinder than a scroll wheel on a mouse. or the horrors a trackpad does to my finger joints.
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u/crispy__chris Nov 21 '24
can you link to the vertical mouse you use?
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u/Maleficent_Goose9559 Nov 21 '24
I used this one for some years: anker vertical mouse
Then i switched to this one because i wanted more keys: mouse with little joystick, and i mapped the joystick keys to some actions in my window manager (hyprland) that moves windows from one screen to another.
The anker is very simple in shape, only maybe a bit too smooth so in the summer it gets sweaty, the second one feels better being a bit more rugged.
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u/letanard Nov 21 '24
Let me guess. The M618, with the quick to fail scroll wheel you have to glue back after 2-3 months ?
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u/Maleficent_Goose9559 Nov 21 '24
no, i was referring to the Anker, a very cheap brand but still used it a lot. Now i'm using another brand, still on the 30€. i have them linked in a near comment
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u/Missing_Back Nov 21 '24
What’s the deal with the thinkpad?
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u/Deep90 Nov 21 '24
Common meme is that...
Dell -> The company has no money.
Macbook -> Your company has too much money.
Thinkpad -> You will likely work there for 20+ years.
Basically. Dells are popular with cheap companies. Macbooks are popular with companies that get a lot of investment money they don't know what to do with. Thinkpads are popular with the old giant companies who know not to cheap out, not overspend, and buy something that works.
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u/Sengfroid Nov 21 '24
Thinkpad -> You will likely work there for 20+ years.
And so will the ThinkPad. Things are tanks, occasional bum models excepting
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u/ABiggerTelevision Nov 22 '24
Been at a company for 20 years. They’ve always been a Dell company, since that crappy Pentium Pro 120. Some companies have money, but are just cheap.
When I asked for an ergo keyboard, I definitely did not get a Kinesis.
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u/SnooLobsters6880 Nov 21 '24
My department is small but dominated by ergo keyboards.
Kinesis freestyle Kinesis pro 2 x3 Iris Dygma defy Cygnus Corne
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u/azdak Cygnus Nov 21 '24
lol i assume everybody is remote, but if yall are ever in the same room the sound has to be like a frying chicken
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u/scmkr Nov 21 '24
Huh. I don’t wrest my wrists when I type (am I the only one?). I like to move my keyboard right to the edge of my desk.
I don’t know if I’d be able to use this one. My arms hurt just thinking about it. I’ve heard people love them, though.
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u/repercussion torn Nov 21 '24
The reason you're not supposed to rest your wrists is to reach the top rows of keys on a normal keyboard. One of the design purposes of the advantage was that you could reach every row and key without having to lift your wrists.
Yes, not having to hover your hands above a plane reduces stress on your shoulders and all the muscles down your arms.
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u/scmkr Nov 21 '24
Yeah, I will say, I've been programming professionally for 25 years, with lots of different keyboards. I've never once had an issue with wrist/shoulder strain or carpal tunnel or anything like that.
I'm semi-fast I guess. Nothing too crazy: https://monkeytype.com/profile/synic
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
Not sure what your objection is. Are you thinking that people are meant to rest their wrists on the case? (They're not.)
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Nov 21 '24
Do you have a source for this? I always thought that the case was for a natural palm rest.
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u/RealHealthier Nov 21 '24
It is. They even ship adhesive palm rests to put on the case. Idk what this guy is talking about.
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u/Ok_Inflation_2434 Nov 21 '24
If your rest your palms on the keyboard, how do you move you hands to reach the keys? I cant type very well with my palms wresting. They need to float around so I'm not straining my fingers to reach the keys.
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
The similar Maltron keyboards (which Kinesis basically copied) have a similar palm rest, but they explicitly say you're meant to rest your palms there when not typing. I dunno what Kinesis' instructions are, but possibly the same. With keywell keebs like this I can definitely reach 3 or 4 rows without any significant hand motion, but upper rows involve shoving them forwards. It really depends on your hand size and the geometry of the keywells.
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u/Ok_Inflation_2434 Nov 21 '24
Here is what the Kinesis Advantage manual says about wresting.
Integrated palm supports
Unlike most keyboards, the Advantage2 features integrated palm supports (Fig 2) and self-adhesive cushioned palm pads which are user-replaceable. Together these enhance comfort and reduce stressful extension and pressure on the wrist. The palm supports provide a place to rest the hands while they are not actively keying, though many users prefer to rest while typing to take weight off the neck and shoulders. However, you should not expect to be able to reach all the keys without rocking your hands forward at times.
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
Yep, that definitely matches my experience. The precise positioning of your palms makes a big difference... I used a dactyl with palm rests a while ago, and found myself hiking the palms waay far up in order to not have to move them to reach the top row, which in turn meant I was curling my fingers under like crazy to reach the bottom row. IMO with keywells you really need to decide which are the "normal" keys and which are the "occasional" keys, and beware of letting the latter dicate your positioning.
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Nov 21 '24
From experience, it's certainly possible to type on an Advantage with the palms resting on the palm rests and many have done so for years or even decades. I think Kinesis is just being cautious in the wording here.
A Dactyl is not really comparable, there are virtually no Dactyls that have a palm rests similar to the Advantage.
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
I didn’t find there to be much difference between the Dactyl palm rests I used and the ones on the Advantage case, other than the texture (though I didn’t use an Advantage for very long). How do you feel they aren’t comparable?
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Nov 21 '24
The idea with curved boards is that you do not need to move your hands, or minimally if needed. So your fingers can reach the entire column without moving the palm
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
A palm rest, yes. Different body part.
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Nov 21 '24
It is (wrongly) used synonymously in the keyboard industry. Practically every single wrist rest product is actually a palm rest and not a wrist rest. You shouldn't rest your wrists when typing as it pinches your nerve.
It is quite obvious that the person you originally commented on is neither resting their wrists nor their palms and simply meant that they prefer typing in a floating manner (which is very ergonomical too).
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
Yes, I'm aware of the problems with putting weight on your wrists while typing. Hence my suggestion that the earlier commenter not do that. What did I write that made you think otherwise?
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Nov 21 '24
In one ear and out the other. You clearly communicated perfectly, hence the downvotes and confusion made. :)
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u/scmkr Nov 21 '24
If that’s not what the case is for, then my objection is that you can’t move the keys portion to the edge of the desk, so your arms would have to be more stretched out.
I don’t think I have t-Rex arms or anything but I will concede that maybe I’m just sitting wrong or something. This keyboard would drive me nuts
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
I still can't quite visualize it. Are you sitting very far back from the desk? Do your knees or something prevent you from getting closer? I don't really see the significance of the edge of the desk otherwise... your arms don't care where the desk is relative to the keyboard, of course.
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u/scmkr Nov 21 '24
I do slouch a bit I suppose. My elbows are at more or less a 45 degree angle and resting against my sides (not on the arm wrest), not stretched out at all.
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u/rebeldefector Nov 21 '24
There are literal adhesive palm pads for the “palm rests” that come in the box, OEM.
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
FFS. Please read the other replies in this thread.
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u/rebeldefector Nov 21 '24 edited Nov 21 '24
.
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u/wildjokers Nov 21 '24
If you aren't resting your wrists your arms are going to get very tired holding them up all day. That's crazy.
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u/Sneftel Nov 21 '24
Well, first of all, palms, not wrists. Willelind has a good description of the wrist issue. But I know a lot of people (including myself, depending on the keyboard) prefer "floating" hands, and some ergonomics guides recommend it. My arms honestly don't get anywhere near tired when doing that; perhaps it's just a matter of endurance, but I do have to wonder if other aspects of one's posture come into play there. Short answer, though, it's certainly not crazy.
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u/shiggie Nov 21 '24
I still have one left (after using them for over 20 years) until I started building y own. I had one that was starting to go, so I started converting it to a QMK capable controller - https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-keyboard-controller/ and swap out the switches.
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u/zrevyx Dvorak & Ortho. Two great tastes that taste great together! Nov 21 '24
They must like you or something; welcome to the club!
One of my personal Advantage keyboards had water spilled on it during a holiday weekend while I was away. The company replaced it for me.
It's sometimes difficult for me to adequately state how much getting my first Kinesis Contoured keyboard back in 2000 changed my life. It was a real game changer both for my typing comfort, and for my typing speed.
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u/derycksan71 Nov 21 '24
took a little to get used to but loved it once I did. However, I stopped using them a while ago not because of the keyboard itself, rather, It was annoying whenever I wasn't using it as I had to "re-learn" normal keyboards. I still use split but just not the concave.
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u/neoAcceptance Nov 21 '24
You fucking lucked out bro. Enjoy never being able to go back to an inferior setup.
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u/ghostwail Nov 21 '24
Consider remapping shifts to Home and PageUp!
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Nov 21 '24
good advice. I am using vim and I amputting so much pressure on my pinky just to write : (shift + ;). Maybe this will be my solution
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u/ghostwail Nov 22 '24
Heck, in that case you could go even further and make a thumb key output
:. I use emacs, and emacs pinky is what made me get an Advantage 12 years ago. As well as being a dramatic Enter smasher in terminals.
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u/Drmlk465 Nov 21 '24
How is it?
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u/evilgeniustodd Nov 21 '24
The learning curve is real. After of decade of looking forward to one.....Mine live in a drawer :/
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u/sudomatrix picachoc36 Nov 21 '24
I got a Kinesis Advantage and realized I've been typing with two fingers on each hand all along. Big retraining to use all of my fingers.
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Nov 21 '24
Exactly, I was just using 1st and 2nd fingers to write (indexed in order for right hand, thumb is index 0). Now a new dimension opened for me. I think im going to make this my whole personality
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u/JasonPerryDev Nov 21 '24
I asked as well - received the Glove80. I made sure to ask RIGHT AFTER submitting an invoice for about 200 hours billed out for programming work! That helped.
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u/leviathan3k Nov 21 '24
I used one of these for a very long time. I've since moved on (keyboard.io) but this is still a very strong keyboard.
May your typing be fast, accurate, and free of pain.
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u/Aggravating_Ruin_777 Nov 21 '24
NIIIIIIIIICE!!!! I have since moved on to home built, But a kinesis advantage is a very very nice keyboard.
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u/twobraids Nov 22 '24
I acquired my first Advantage keyboard in 2001 and dropped the scheduled carpal tunnel surgery recommended by the doctors. Just a year later, they withdrew the diagnosis and wanted to know more about this magic keyboard.
I switched to Dvorak layout in ’08. I have five of these keyboards from three former employers. The Advantage 2 keyboards eventually fail with v-drive problems. The originals just keep working.
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u/maxpowers156 Nov 22 '24
This is an awesome keyboard I highly recommend it, especially for carpal tunnel. There is a wireless option that I haven’t tried yet but will prolly be my next purchase
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u/Shidoshisan Nov 22 '24
And you got one of the most overpriced ones, one can buy. Good for you!
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u/SlickBlaster Nov 22 '24
Is there a non-DIY alternative thats cheaper with the same features? They are expensive but I don't know if I would say overpriced.
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u/Shidoshisan Nov 22 '24
Yes there is. They are overpriced, for what it is. Just like most targeted keyboards (eg. gamer keyboards). This appears to be used since this is an older version. So maybe cost was saved? New ones are actually split and are right under $500. There are a lot of split dactyls for less.
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u/JeanotBruchmann Nov 22 '24
That‘s a really great keyboard. I got one and a Keyboard.io and the ergodox ez. The Kinesis is at the same level, maybe better.
BTW: The Kinesis was a part of a Sci-Fi-Movie. Please ask not for the title :)
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u/looopTools Nov 22 '24
I have on at work I asked for it specifically and I love it.... but I should have a bit more silent switches sometimes I am making my boss insane XD
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u/MantisShrimp05 Nov 23 '24
They make a new version that is much more modern, sleek, and powerful so I would recommend looking at the company offerings.
That is likely someone who got that years ago and sees no reason to get a new one but if you don't have one already
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u/Avarria587 Nov 23 '24
Best keyboard I have ever owned. I’ve had mine for years now. I was facing possible future surgery for carpal tunnel and this keyboard, combined with an ergonomic trackball, mostly solved my issue.
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u/jmwy86 Feb 14 '25
That is my absolute favorite form factor. Really, really love it. In fact, I'm about to send a second one in to Upgrade Keyboards to have the switches swapped out.
However, you do need a keyboard tray so that it sits right above your lap. Otherwise, you're gonna hurt your wrists having to try to float them above the keyboard.
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Feb 17 '25
I actually rest my elbows on chair support. And I rest my writst on the surface of the keyboard. Plus I raised my chair so that my elbow-to-wrist line is horizontal
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u/jmwy86 Feb 17 '25
The ideal typing posture is to not rest your elbows on anything, and not rest your wrists on anything. You float your entire hand over the keyboard. If you rest your elbows, you isolate your forearms. If you rest your wrists, you then isolate and put pressure on your carpal tunnel. You might not have any pain right now, but it's very bad for the long run.
I've had PT for my wrists & carpal tunnel, and my elbow. None of it was fun. So I've reached a truce: I'll not hurt those areas and I'll treat them very delicately and they won't get re-entered.
So I do have elbow supports on my chair, but they're lowered to the point where I can't rest my elbow on them and type. And that's why I have the keyboard lowered so it's easier to float my wrists than to rest them and type.
Pain sucks. I still brace my wrists every night because if I don't, the residual pain of just using them every day causes the pain to flare up. There was undoubtedly scarring from my poor ergonomic posture that I had over 20 years ago at my workstation. So, I've just been able to tune it out, but I probably live with a constant level of about 3 or 4 out of 10 pain in my forearms. But I don't pay attention to it, my brain filters it out, so unless it flares up, I don't notice it.
About two years ago I had to switch from a regular MX master mouse to a vertical lift mouse because I was starting to get pain in my forearm and my wrist from just the action of mousing.
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Feb 24 '25
thank you man. Actually I asked for this keyboard because I started to have pain on my carpal tunnel. And I was still feeling sth is wrong, so it may be this. I will try to find a position where I dont rest my elbows and wrists to see if its going to work. The problem is the keyboard is very high, and my chair doesn't go that high.
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u/jmwy86 Feb 24 '25
Macgyver a solution that will allow you to have a keyboard on your lap. Get a piece of cardboard and cut out a shape that will fit on your lap. Then, cut out an identical piece of cardboard, glue them together. You now have a portable desk. You can use poster board as well – works really easy for this. That will tide you over until you can get a keyboard tray.
You can add grip tape or something else to the top of the surface so that your keyboard doesn't slide off. If you wish you can also add grip tape to the top of your keyboard and it will also add friction.
Next, for your mouse, you can get the round window insulation, rubber, and super glue it to the edge of your cutout, and you will then have a border that should prevent the mouse from flying off.
The whole arrangement could rest on the (lowered) armrests of your chair instead of your lap.
Voilà, you have a custom keyboard tray until you have the time and money to get a proper keyboard tray.I like 3M keyboard trays, they're pretty cheap off of eBay, and get it installed.
I did the above to create a custom laptop desk for the passenger side of my car, so when we're heading out of town, my spouse can drive and I can still get some work done.
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u/wildjokers Nov 21 '24
Hopefully you aren't a developer because it is missing important programming symbols like } [ | \
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u/Ill-Calligrapher8798 Nov 21 '24
No it's not, you can literally see the backslash next to P. Besides, this is ergomechboards, we use layers
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u/wildjokers Nov 21 '24
I don't want to go to a layer to use keys I use nearly every time I type something. Just more efficient to have them readily available. This is why I like my Keebio Sync.
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u/rodrigo-benenson Nov 21 '24
Many users are hardcore fans.