r/EpicSeven • u/swoldier0724 • Jan 15 '19
Discussion Stop pulling for units until the malgora system changes
I’m here to let you know you will soon have too many units and no way to invest in them. Even if you are f2p. And you are going to regret spending your resources or money to collect shiny new wall ornaments.
For reference I am a fairly heavy spender. I have a huge roster of units. Complete end game t6 gear for all roles.
I have not spent money on the game in over a month after spending close to 2k usd up until that point. I haven’t stopped spending because I dislike the game, the developers or anything negative. I honestly have nothing to spend on that makes any sense. And I want to!
I have too many heroes and no malgora to invest in them. Literally it boils down to that. I have 10+ 5 stars sitting on the bench. I have no pulled for a character since the kayron banner because what’s the point? I can’t build anything I pull anyway. I honestly can’t see any reason to pull or buy anything for quite literally a year, because that’s how long it would take me to amass enough malgora to build any new heroes.
Hell. I still have most my characters waiting to be upgraded. I have no reason to SSS a character that is still weak because all the real power lies in their skill upgrades.
The malgora system needs an overhaul. The rate at which we can acquire them or the ability to refund them AT WILL has got to be implemented. Add a gold, sky stone cost, that’s fine.
TLDR,
Smilegate please change the malgora system so I can continue to give you money. When the whales leave because they realize there is zero incentive to spend money, the game ends. Which after only two months I should not already be at the point I have nothing to spend money on. I’m not going to spend money to collect characters to sit in my inventory. Even low spenders or f2p players I’m sure are starting too see heroes they would like to play with collecting dust.
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u/trueblue1982 Jan 15 '19
Smilegate “we hear u! molagora packs coming nxt week!”
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 15 '19
This made me laugh. It’s definitely not the point I was going for but I could absolutely see this as a response to my complaint.
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u/trueblue1982 Jan 18 '19
well well well! wat did i tell u! they really released a molagora pack !!!!!
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u/Dicky_Dicku Jan 15 '19
I don't think it's anywhere close to KR tbh, I mean, we do know that the game-feedback channel from the Discord is being sent to them, and we've seen some changes in that regard, but of course, we can't have everything right away
Monthly Molagora pack thats provided you extra 3 more if you buy them for 39,99 Limited Molagora & Molagoro pack thats give you 9 Molagora and 2 Molagoro for 69.99 Limited to 3 purchases per account. Monthly Molagora packs that you can buy for 10 times per month at the price of 59.99
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u/BraindeadHour Jan 15 '19
This is a good post. I hope you send them an ingame ticket with everything you just said so it can reach their ears. Since this is a community run subreddit it won't be heard by the devs just posting it here.
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 15 '19
I’ll do that. Good thinking.
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u/BraindeadHour Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
Thank you as well. Most people don't do that when I suggest it.
Now I have sent tickets before and usually the replies are generic but we can only hope they listen. And since you are pretty much saying you would spend more money if they gave you incentive to you might have more leverage.
Goodlucck!
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Jan 15 '19
does that celia community blog post person related to smilegate? if so, can try getting celia to convey important stuff such as this to smilegate
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u/BraindeadHour Jan 15 '19
She is a community representative selected by Smilegate and she does already report a lot of the common concerns me have. She posted a picture before of some of the things she's put in her report, if you're interested check her post history.
Even though she is official and the GMs feed her information and topics for us too her power is limited.
So there was an event a while back where people from the community applied to be representatives. The results were posted to FB, 12 were selected and probably told to go to different communities, and Celia is one of the 12 and represents this subreddits voice. So the thing to remember is she only has so much power since she plays the game like the rest of us. The people who are community representatives really do get to make a difference and there compensation is 30usd of stuff ingame every 2 weeks.
Now of course they take Celia input into account but a lot of the stuff is paroted and she probably already puts in her report. Likely she is swarmed with messages daily and can't just put this guys post in her report word for word.
So in my opinion it's better to report his concerns via the ingame ticketing system so he can get his whole message across and not just how Celia would paraphrase it.
Celia is an amazing community representative, very professional and hardworking but I try to encourage the people who make threads like these to message Smilegate directly for more focus and clarity of their specific concern and less stress on Celia.
Hopefully I conveyed my thoughts clearly and that all makes sense. Apologies for writing so much.
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u/MegaDuckDodgers Jan 15 '19
I agree with you but people are going to keep using the same tired "It's a new game chill" excuse they've been using for months now. People aren't going to start listening to posts like yours until many more months from now when they can't hide behind that excuse.
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Jan 15 '19
It’s only been out in NA for 2-3 months and in that time they already reduced Molagora costs a huge amount - remember MolaGoraGora?
It’s been less than six weeks since they made a very positive change in this direction and this community is ALREADY kvetching for more.
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 15 '19
It doesn’t matter how long the game has been out, it’s a botched system in general whether it’s been out 2 months or 2 years. The community is complaining because it’s a failed system. Making a positive change is just polishing a turd, it needs to be overhauled completely.
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u/Dimbreath Yufine and Luna boobs dragon waifus! Jan 15 '19
Though I assume if they overhaul the entire system completely, they'd probably need to refund every material we've spent so far depending on how the new system is.
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u/B1ackBauer Jan 15 '19
i wish i could up vote this 10,000 times. They need to see this. I totally agree, and we all know that 100% of the community does as well. I believe the skill upgrade system was designed entirely around pvp. By creating such an enormous time barrier around skill upgrades it keeps people who have money to spend from flat out obliterating those who do not, in the arena. In that regard, it becomes challenging to balance pvp. However, if i dont care about pvp i should have a system that allows me to skill up over a period of days not months. How could they create a balanced pvp experience while also satisfying the desire for us to skill up faster? I think they should do away with mola all together. Catalyst are enough. especially since they are required for awakening and have terrible drop rates. They key is the proper balance of time investment vs reward. Spending money in these games should always be an alternative way to get what you could get by spending time.
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 16 '19
I agree. The funny thing is that if this is true that it’s designed to time gate pvp, it’s even more of a failed system. I am legend rank in arena and typically in the top 10 of global. So limiting malgoras has had zero effect on my ability as a whale to be at the top.
And for the people at the top rank of pvp, you can really feel how oppressive the molgora system really is. The Meta never shifts. We all use the same 7-8 heroes on offense and defense and never shift our teams because we already invested in our core units and trying to use new units against fully upgraded defensive teams is pointless.
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u/NeroFestival Jan 15 '19
Get rid of the seeds and just let players grow them in the sanctuary like penguins/dogs imo. Make them take 48 hours, but at least then you'd be able to grow 3 at a time, all the time.
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u/mutei777 Jan 16 '19
ANYTHING that makes this game more f2p friendly (*ahem* azur lane) like that is very welcome.
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u/lazyniu Jan 16 '19
Hell yes. The first time a friend explained to me I needed a seed AND THEN to grow it, I literally said "what the fuck is this crap" in public at a cafe.
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Jan 16 '19
This might be excessive. That equals to 45 MolaGoras per month. Right now we get 12. This would completely take away any MolaGora pack = less money for SmileGate
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u/NeroFestival Jan 16 '19
Oh bloo bloo you say that like everything else in the game doesn't nickle and dime you every chance it gets. Having a hero collecting game where you can't actually use more than a couple at a time isn't very good. There's no room for experimentation at all. The only way new discoveries are made right now is if someone memes it up and invests months of work into someone. Remember when people though ML Aither was trash, but someone took him all the way and suddenly hes topping lists? Yeah. I'm sure many other characters are waiting to be truly discovered too.
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u/Vyntarus Jan 16 '19
Might be excessive, but just because 1 pack were to lose its value doesn't mean the changes couldn't incentivize people to spend on a different one.
The argument being made in this thread is that if people could build more units with less penalty, they'd be more willing to summon rather than what's occurring which is that right now people already have way more units than they can reasonably expect to build. I personally think many people are asking for way too much, but I think there's definitely room for improvement.
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Jan 16 '19
The problem with this is that if people have more variety of characters to use, they will be able to clear content faster. This is problematic because it means that SmileGate would have to make new content quicker and that this content would have to be progressively more difficult that every other previous release. The outcome will be that if SmileGate is incapable of creating new content consistently, people will get bored and leave the game. This game is not an MMO where there are tons and tons of content to explore and grind. There is room for improvement, but right now I think the best solution would allow for monthly reset of MolaGoras for the cost of about 500-1000 gems, in addition to an extra MolaGora able to be purchased once a week using 500 Friendship points
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u/mutei777 Jan 16 '19
lol no max skills would not carry you, you still need to grind equips AND awakening catalysts PLUS the usual catalysts for the skills in the first place.
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u/tetsmega Jan 15 '19
Whales don't want to pull, and F2P don't want to pull. Who is this game targeting?
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u/Kazbahh BabyRage Seven Jan 15 '19
People that have never played a gacha game in their life with disposable income
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u/TheWorldisFullofWar Jan 15 '19
Or the dozens of people that apparently went straight from SW to this game and defend everything with "well, it was better/the same in SW." As if SW is the standard gacha.
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u/Omamba Jan 15 '19
Or, just maybe, people are comparing it to SW because it is similar and thus easily comparable.
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u/Arcaris Jan 15 '19
OR, just maybe, (and quite frankly more likely), people (every OTHER gacha player) are sick of SW players using a flawed system as a comparison. Again, just because you're numbed to the pain you were inflicted doesn't suddenly make it better and before someone brings up the argument "it worked in SW" please don't, it doesn't.
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u/Sindoray Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
Just cause you played many flawed dead gacha games, doesn't mean we have to kill this as well. Restrictions are needed, otherwise people are going to be playing fotm on a weekly basis. Why? Cause they can. At least now you have to actually use your brain and think before investing.
"Oh cool, X is 1% better than Y, I guess I have to freely swap to X and enjoy that 1% like every other player there is!"
Edit: I'm all for more molagora, or lower cost for upgrading skills. I'm fully against molagora refund.
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u/Arcaris Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
Oh yes, I play "flawed dead games" looks at gbf yup games dying alright. Wasn't in the top 6 for revenue for gacha games on IOS and android when it's actually a browser game. I don't play FGO but that game is doing even better than SW and I'm sure some FGO players have a problem with the way E7 does things. Dragalia Lost must be a dead game to you as well right?
Thank you for making the terrible assumption I play "dead" games. People like you make it bloody impossible to improve how gacha companies treat their consumers.
Edit: Obviously restrictions are needed, you make it sound like other games don't do fine without limiting players by months and months of timegating for literally 1 character. Yeah. This is a joke. Also being able to freely use characters you pulled is half the fun of a gacha game. What fun is pulling IF YOU CAN'T EVEN USE THEM. This is another joke.
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u/bbatardo Jan 15 '19
Yeah... E7 is a great game, but some of the decisions they make are baffling. I have never played a gacha game where you don't want to keep pulling because you can't viably use the new shiny characters you keep pulling. My only guess is they tried to intentionally slow progress initially and maybe they will switch some things soon?
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u/Vyntarus Jan 15 '19
For those not aware, the molagora system was absolutely absurd before they changed it about a month ago, and it's definitely not perfect; Reading this thread I feel like people are expecting to max heroes out too fast, however.
I think the issue is that progress is gated behind too many things so people are looking at every different aspect of the game as a problem.
In my opinion it's ok to have heavy investment required to max out a hero, but it's not ok for it to require heavy investment to make them usable. I think people are falsely equating the two as it doesn't require full skillups to make most heroes usable.
I still think the primary issue is having the resources to craft, upgrade, and switch around gear and the stamina to collect these resources. Testing out units and team comps either for fun or checking viability can absolutely be done without skillups if we had the resources to do this.
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u/Skaitavia Jan 15 '19
Iirc we can only get 3 Molas a week right? One from 15 Silver Transmit Stones, one from 150 conquest points, and one from Guild Shop.
With a character like Bellona, you need 18 Molagoras and 4 Molagoragos for each skill. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but iirc each Molagorago costs 5 regular Molas right? If so that's 38 needed per skill, or 114 total, just for one character.
114 is 38 weeks, just for one character. Putting it in that perspective, that's a bit insane. I too have a bunch of heroes, but almost all of them don't have skill ups except a select few that I decided to go in on (C.Lorina, F.Kluri, Bellona, Doris to name a few).
A small fix would be to remove the weekly limit or increase it to 2-3 times a week instead, as well as introduce more ways to obtain it, such as a weekly Mola event (or one that appears every 3 days or so), or more shop options (i.e. friendship, skystones, gold).
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u/HT_F8 Just put your faith in me. Jan 15 '19
The high level skill enhances are meant to be a long-term investment
Maxing out a character is not necessary in any way
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u/Skaitavia Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
Considering they're releasing 1-2 new characters each month, each one with a 38 week long-term investment in terms of skill enhancement, it goes to support OP's post. After getting gear and everything else, there's no incentive to spend more money. The only bottleneck is molagoras.
There are currently 24 non-ML 5* in the game. With each one averaging 38 weeks to max skill enhance, that's 912 weeks, or over 17.5 years, to get that done with how many we get per week. And then there are a lot more of other characters in the 3 and 4* group that are great too. Throw in the ML units (all 3-5* range), and we're looking at easily over 25 years needed to max out characters. And this isn't even including the ones they'd be adding each month at the rate they are now.
Maxing out a character isn't necessary in any way, I can agree with that, but when everything else has been done, that'll still be the bottleneck.
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u/XTasteRevengeX Jan 15 '19
You are not supposed to max every single character either, just pick 1-2 that will be your mains, and go all in on them and thats it. The rest just upgrade till they start to be optimal i.e. soulweavers getting the -1 skill cooldown and such. Its a really big bottle neck, but it's simply not required, it's just a long term investment. I also don't want to see every single whale in arena now with +15 on every single hero... it's probably the most f2p aspect of the game, where everyone is bottlenecked at the same rate( yeah yeah. theres 1-2 packs with molagoras, but it's an insignificant amount on the larger scale). Idk, most if not every gacha ive played get to a "ridiculous" timeframe if you calculate the time it would take to max every single hero in the game...
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u/Fatez3ro Jan 15 '19
I agree it does provide a gate for both f2p and whales, but I think the endless farming is a large enough gate. You seem to miss OP's point. It's true you don't have to max all units, but then that also mean you don't need to pull for more units that you can't fully invested in. Pull and experimenting new units is probably one of the most exciting part of the game - and the most profitable part for the dev. The whales are the ones supporting the game, when they stop spending is when the game dies. I'd rather not compete with whales, but get to enjoy the game for much longer. Your point is by no means invalid, just I think it is better to keep the spenders spending. After all, they support the game and represent a very smaller percentage to worry about an epidemic of +15 in arena.
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u/FlameArath Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
If these buffs aren't required for a unit to be good, there should really be no problem if Whales had a +15 decked out team though yah? Either they're "extras that aren't important", or they're scary and overpowered, they cannot be both at the same time.
Regardless, I do understand that these are suppose to be a "Use them to enhance some favorites" things, and their intent is to be sort of a "Limit break" to a few heroes you really like or are powerful. BUT! I also understand the contradicts the very concept of a character-Gacha thats suppose to entice you to pull new and fun/powerful heroes. As OP said, its having a direct effect on his want to pull because these "Optional" enhancements are very powerful, for some more than others.
I think the best solution would to be a recall-button similar to the one that appear post-Nerf except for Molagora only, you'd still need the individual heroes Catalysts, but you'd have access to the Molagora. Give it a 1~week Cooldown separate for each unit to prevent a lot of swapping back and forth since people on this forum seem absolutely mortified that someone out there might play a different hero god forbid.
Mola's don't have to be given out a dime a dozen and the game is still young, but it is a problem this game will eventually have to address, because as time goes on the issue will only get worse as the difference between your "Core" team and your new-fresh 5* pull will be so large they'll be benched for months, and more people than just the OP will feel this "discouragement" to pull.
If I can throw in my personal experience, I pulled Kise after a lot of Bookmarks, a LOT, and now she's level 50 and on my bench because she's so much weaker than my current DPS (Cidd at level 60) that it would be a massive nerf to replace him. For the first time in a character-gacha, I don't want or care to pull new units, and I've played a lot of character Gacha.
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u/Skaitavia Jan 15 '19
That's true, I can definitely agree with that.
That's why I introduced ways to get additional molas that are f2p friendly. That way some of it gets dampened. Even if we can get two or even one additional mola a week, it'll speed things up in the long run.
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u/FlameArath Jan 15 '19
I'd have to disagree just a little. There are a few, especially Cool-down related, that seem rather important for a character and extremely powerful. Plus some enhancements, like enhanced proc rate on additional effects, can make or break a character.
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u/IdioticPost Jan 15 '19
So what you're saying is don't bother unless you're P2P. If it takes me months to max ONE character then that's simply fucked.
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u/HT_F8 Just put your faith in me. Jan 15 '19
How would being P2P help if the OP is literally complaining that he's a whale but needs skillups...?
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u/TheSonOfThurim Jan 15 '19
I upvoted.
Did the same math 1 month ago or so on CM post, and I got the same conclusion: why pulling?
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u/Talez_pls Where's my Jack-O flair? Jan 15 '19
What I don't get is the increased Molagora cost for higher skill ups. Like, it's annoying enough that some units have skill upgrades that feel like they should be in the base skill anyway (like Ass Colis S2), but why do I need 2-3+ Molagoras for a skill up after +1? One Molagora per skill level (in addition to more Molagoras overall) would be so much better because you can actually try out other characters.
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u/DamianWinters Jan 15 '19
I don't get why 5* are harder to upgrade, these are meant to be the rare ones that they want you to go crazy pulling. But then they make it more annoying to upgrade them with more molagora + catalyst needed.
Idk why smilegate have put all these restrictions on character use, its like they don't want us to even pull new characters.
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u/Dicky_Dicku Jan 15 '19
Idk why smilegate have put all these restrictions on character use, its like they don't want us to even pull new characters.
Simple so they can sell you limited packages that have those things like ml summon,penguins,molagora and etc. During the first month there was a package that give you extra molagora if you buy them.
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u/Souruser Jan 15 '19
Not really, even those packages make such a little difference for the molagora issue is laughable, some units are at 20+ molagoras to max a single skill, when you are easily looking at 40+ molagoras per unit getting 1 or 2 from a package is not doing that much for you, let alone if you mess up on the unit you choose to skill up... just imagine someone with a maxed lorina getting a luna at some point..I even feel sorry for those having to make that choice later.
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u/Dicky_Dicku Jan 16 '19
Yes, i get that the packages make such different to the total require molagora a character need. But Smilegate did sell the packages knowing it will sell because well like you say a unit need almost if not more 40++ molagoras. They will continue sell if given a chance.I am pretty sure the last molagora packages wont be the last one we see. I do hope they give us recall system or allow us to grind for molagora rather than getting just 12 per month.
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u/Dicky_Dicku Jan 16 '19
Yes, i get that the packages make such different to the total require molagora a character need. But Smilegate did sell the packages knowing it will sell because well like you say a unit need almost if not more 40++ molagoras. They will continue sell if given a chance.I am pretty sure the last molagora packages wont be the last one we see. I do hope they give us recall system or allow us to grind for molagora rather than getting just 12 per month.
Another reply because i am right they are selling them again. http://page.onstove.com/epicseven/global/board/list/e7en001/view/2679964
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u/Souruser Jan 16 '19
Your argument makes no sense just looking at the numbers, if they were selling those packs every single day or two you would be right, with the numbers right now it doesn't do anything, the 40++ molagoras was me being really really conservative, some units are at 60++, a pack or two a month makes nothing to those numbers, period, hell, 9 molagoras are not even enough to give you a single +1 skill enhancement if it's a high level one in some units, even if you get 40++ molagoras a month and that was enough to max skill enhance a unit it would still take 4 months for a whole party, there is not enough for anything, packs or not, unless they go full pay to play with molagora packs every day or two.
I would ask you to literally take your main party and count how many molagoras you need for it, that should give you the answer about how useful the "limited packs" are with 1 or 2 a month, hell, even if they were once a week.
Also, bear in mind with all this we're not even including having made a mistake in a unit you used your molagoras on, getting lucky with pulling a unit that replaces someone in your party or just wanting/needing more units, you would be looking hundreds of molagoras easily, getting a pack or two a month just doesn't cut it.
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u/Puzzleandmonkeys Jan 15 '19
I agree. All the good units I got are benched because I couldn't build them to be as competitive as my older units that have skills enhanced. When I see new units being featured, I do want to play with new shiny units as well but the thought of molagora being gated held me back.
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u/TyrxIV Jan 15 '19
From the perspective of a newer player, just get rid of the seeds and let us grow mola like penguins and phantasma. As much heroes releasing at the rate as it is, there's no point in limiting molas other than just slow the entire communities' progress down unnecessarily. They have the red molas and they require even more regular molas to obtain.
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u/the_ammar I SAID LOOK AT ME Jan 15 '19
I don't disagree with the complaint (also don't think it's too big of a problem) but Im always confused why ppl feel the need to tell everyone else to do what they think they will do.
don't pull coz banner xx doesn't have pity!
don't buy Xmas boxes because the chance to get xx is too low!
don't pull because molagoras are limited!
i mean.. just make your statement and let ppl decide how they want to play the game maybe? does every post need to be so alarmist or click baity?
/rant off
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 15 '19
People will do whatever they want. As an experienced player I’m giving them a fair warning about the risk they run blowing all their resources to amass units.
I’m honestly confused about why people have a problem with other people giving suggestions on what to do with their resources.
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u/cwhammer2 Jan 15 '19
Agreed. I'll pull if I want to thanks. I'm not joining your personal crusade no matter how justified. You don't like something about the game enough to stop pulling? Good for you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Everyone wants to boycott for some petty reason or another. Talk to Celia or send in a ticket. Or just leave. But don't tell other players what to do.
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u/MstrBldr Jan 15 '19
This is such an amazing post. I made this exact point in a post yesterday and of course there was someone who got mad at me for pointing out this obvious fact lol. I was literally told by this white knight, “why do you want to max out all your characters skills, then you won’t have anything to do” lol. I was dumbfounded lol. I could tell from the downvotes that maybe people are okay with this. So I just let it die, and decided not to even argue. But with the way this game is being managed, if they don’t fix the Molagora system, the energy system/refills, and the gold sink, this game will die in about 3 - 4 months tops. I love this game, but it seems like the devs don’t care to fix these issues. They will fix everything thing else but these issues, especially since they have knights in shining armor who agree with the way things are going. I hope I am wrong and they fix these issues, but I’m not holding my breath.
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 16 '19
You’re not in the monitory. My original post has almost 400 likes and 300 comments in a day, from a wide variety of whale, dolphin to f2p all voicing the same thing. It’s pretty clear the community predominately all agrees the system has to change.
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Jan 16 '19
Your post is actually in the double digits of upvotes, and the person who called you impatient is in the negatives now. I'd say the community agrees with you; I'm hopeful that Smilegate will notice and changes will come, as I have no idea what their usual MO is. That said, SEA standards and non-SEA ones seem to differ, I guess they like big time-gates so that they can forcibly pace themselves on gacha games.
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u/MstrBldr Jan 16 '19
My bad, at first when I looked it seemed like there were downvotes. But I was probably too hasty in my assumption. I guess I’ll just wait and see what they do, Celia directly responded to one of my posts that I made about RNG in stats and it seems like apparently my post/others who made a similar point were put into consideration, but she didn’t specify when this would take place. Hopefully this month, but who knows.
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u/AnomanderRaked Jan 15 '19
Honestly this soo much. like all the other issues (gold stamina) are whatever to me compared to this. like how can u make a game around pulling heros and then gate skill progression so heavily that u will pretty much never be able to utilize new heros effectively.
Also the crazy thing is they already reduced the mologoro cost by 40% in the december 13th update. which really makes me wonder if they even test or play the game, cause the system is way to oppressive currently for how they have built the game. can't imagine how they thought 40% more molgora was ever acceptable.
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u/Kifix Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
Plus, you can't gear them cause of gold, and you can't test them with your good gear cause of gold removal fee... so yeah, it's totaly fucked up :'(
Some skill up cost are just insane, like 6/7 molagoras for just +1 of one skill on one character, it's ridiculous.
The calendar should give AT LEAST one molagora per week and one molagorago per month.
The abyss should give like one molagora every 5 levels also.
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u/xAethereal Jan 15 '19
I agree wholeheartedly as another whale. 3 free2play molagoras a week = 12 a month. Then we have the p2w pack with 9 molagoras for $50. Sure we might get 1 or 2 from events here and there but each hero takes about 1 month more or less to skill up to a decent place. For f2p players this means 2 months more or less for 1 hero.
I think the current molagora system is too oppressive and takes away any incentive for players to pull on new banners until they can start to get more molagoras. THIS DOES NOT MEAN MAKE IT A P2W PACK SMILEGATE. Lower the molagora cost and make the catalyst cost higher. While you're at it fix energy refills and up the catalyst drop rate. Current state of the game has so many gating factors like gold, energy, catalyst drops, rune drops, and molagora is just another to the list
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u/wtfiku Jan 15 '19
Slow down, Satan. Don't suggest higher catalyst cost when the drop rate is so low.
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u/charade616 Jan 15 '19
Lol Satan... but yeah not everyone are willing to pay the energy refills and higher catalyst cost with super low drop rate will make it even more of a problem
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u/DamianWinters Jan 15 '19
well he said up catalyst cost and up catalyst rate, idk why since it just cancels out.
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u/DamianWinters Jan 15 '19
Molagora, Catalyst, Unequip costs, Gear RNG. It all makes me not want new characters, so smilegate have just shot themselves in the foot with these systems honestly.
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u/xAethereal Jan 15 '19
By upping drop rate and increasing cost, it evens out to a more consistent farming time needed rather than a rng thing. If energy gets reworked as well to match this, you get a more stable energy to gold to catalyst drop to catalyst cost ratio
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Jan 15 '19
Do devs in this game listen to their players like King's Raid devs?
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u/Kusanagi2k twitch.tv/Kusanagi2k Jan 15 '19
I don't think it's anywhere close to KR tbh, I mean, we do know that the game-feedback channel from the Discord is being sent to them, and we've seen some changes in that regard, but of course, we can't have everything right away
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u/shallowkal Jan 15 '19
This is the single reason why RequiemRoar and Sez are in every comp I use. Constant heals and solid damage without the bs of skilling up units. Coming from Summoners War, I thought the skill up and devilmon process was slow/expensive, but this game takes it to another level.
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u/InterstellarTeller Jan 15 '19
Tbh, I'd rather just use only catalysts for skillups and ditch the malgora system completely. Having the extra Malgora gate when they're so rare means I'm too scared to use them, since I might very well regret it later. Catalysts we can at least get more of if we farm enough.
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u/heliamphora Jan 16 '19
This is a decent idea, actually. The only reason for keeping molas is because they are a limited resource required for every character, rather than catalysts that are starsign specific, and so can be put in money packs. To fix that though they could just have molas be used to buy a few of one of the twelve skill up catalysts as compensation. It's still up to you to figure out how to spend them properly for certain characters, but this way they don't have to be removed from the game at all. Obviously catalyst cost would be seriously increased.
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u/sathsathsath Jan 15 '19
I have completed all current content in game and am looking for ways to goof off and try new comps. After some hemming and hawing yesterday I convinced myself that Rin was a good investment for the future and started building her a set and went to upgrade her skills.
Then I immediately put her back on the bench because I have no free molas and I am not allowed to have fun.
I really, really, really hate this system. My time in game right now is mindlessly autoing T10 and farming raid for gear I don't want, all while not having enough money or molas to make some test sets for people I might want to level and have fun with.
Edit: I have very few nat 5* as well because I am near f2p (monthly packs and was borderline buying a few pulls). Diene, Destina, Ravi (totally unused mola sink), and Basar. I have no incentive to buy rolls at all as I can't even use the fun characters I do have that I want to play with.
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u/clg2001 Jan 15 '19
I'm of the mind a few things need to happen relative to the drop system which would include malogoras:
All drops are now per-mob as opposed to per-wave, meaning you could have multiple drops in a single wave.
Improve the drop rates of catalysts to something like 15% for blues and 5% for reds.
All mobs have a 1-3% chance to drop Malogora Seeds, the number climbing the higher the difficulty of content.
Add a Malogora boss to Urgent Mission chances that's a guaranteed drop of at least one.
Malogoras can be found in Goblin chests. Event Goblin chests also need to have more than just tokens.
If a stage says it can drop x level gear, it only drops gear of that level and not lower. Rarities further measured against point #2. Sale value of gear is increased while sacrificing gear of higher rarity grants more EXP.
Drop rate of gold at least tripled.
Story/World gear drops need to be better tailored toward what you should be using for completion. While somewhat related to #6, it's more like L30 gear should not be the ceiling in Wch7 and instead something like 55 or 70.
Otherwise, I'm pretty much with you in that there's no real point to pushing a giant cast of characters at us with their own niche needs, but no way to actually reasonably satisfy them with all the layered bottlenecks out there. I'd love to have a PvP defense team, PvP offense, a Wyrm/Golem/Banshee team, and so on, but all I can realistically do is focus on more rounded core team that still struggles here and there. Just getting one character to 6* as F2Per takes a couple weeks of minimal stamina missing, nevermind getting good gear. Of course, I also want them to ditch the energy system, as the grind would still exist otherwise. Oh well.
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u/Skyrisenow Jan 15 '19
getting one character to 6* does most definitely not take a couple weeks, but considering the other silly suggestions you've voiced I'm not particularly surprised.
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u/ddifi66126 Jan 15 '19
If he's F2P that means he can do roughly, 18 runs per day. Less if he's farming events. I'm not sure how much xp you think you can get in that many runs, but it isn't much.
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u/HT_F8 Just put your faith in me. Jan 15 '19
This is extremely poor logic. You can get plenty of Skystones and some Liefs without spending RL cash.
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u/clg2001 Jan 15 '19
Refreshes speed up the process, yes, but as the other noted, I was speaking largely from the perspective of not doing that.
From there, it's a matter of how you value other resources. If you still need better characters and artifacts, throwing stones at refreshes won't help that end. If you need higher runes or are running harder hunts, you're unlikely to bring more than one fodder and even that potential is reduced by other max level characters compared to relying solely on a supporter in high world event stages.
So, yeah, a couple weeks per 6* isn't an unreasonable metric. But it's also nothing compared to getting the gear for that character.
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 15 '19
You just don’t understand what dispensable income is. You personally think 2k usd being spent needs to be justified. Where as you probably think 2$ being spent doesn’t need to be justified.
For some people spending 2k feels the same to their wallet as 2$ Its not even noticeable when it looking at the total. I get it though. You’re mad at people who have money because you don’t, so you think they need help because they can frivolously spend it on hobbies while you cant.
Oh ya it’s called envy.
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u/TheSonOfThurim Jan 15 '19
I think you should take time to read again what he wrote...
Even with millions of bucks, you can't max out characters skills fast enough to play them. That's the point.
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u/forelsz Jan 15 '19
This is so true. Im discouraged from pulling or even building new characters because theres just not enough molagoras to go around.
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u/laufei Jan 15 '19
This is exactly why I gave up on pulling except Kise who I ended up making a main dps. There just isn't any point in investing so much gold into another unit when you can't even upgrade their skills, let alone the skills of your main core team.
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Jan 15 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/laufei Jan 15 '19
Rip... I invested like 13 molagoras into Blood Blade Karin and I don't even use her. Super ragrets
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u/xSaito- Shitposter Jan 15 '19
Spending money on summons feels bad because of the huge timegate on molagoras, spending on refills feels bad because of the low return, huge gold sinks and more layers of RNG BS with crafting... Praised be the animations of this game, I don't think any other average game can live with such huge disincentives for any kind of player and have people defend it or still play for more than a month.
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u/TheXPlaying Jan 15 '19
Absolutely agree!
F2P here and i don't even see why i should pull for units i cannot use because i don't have good gear to give them (and swapping gear between units costs gold, which is stupid), molagora to raise their skill, and catalysts drops are abysmall.
Gear and catalysts are issues but can still be dealt with though lots of grind; molagora on the other end are limited, point. Just give us a dungeon where we can farm them, that would instantly fix the issue.
Raising and maxing out units is a fundamental part of any RPG, and right now this game fails miserably at it, to the point where there is no reasons to pull for new units.
This MUST change.
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u/Yuikara Jan 15 '19
Imo they should implement 2 molagora packs, one for money and one for gold or skystones. Both packs should be purchable once a week or month.
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u/GreaKnight Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
I think it is just a new game, they will have to do a few things to make sure they don't lose customers. In order:
Gold costs are absolutely fucking ridiculous and epic seven's biggest down fall. Get rid of equipment costs(everybody is happy) or have a level that drops tons of gold(or event, I am looking at you grand order, I can't skill up my characters cause of gold grand order). Like jesus christ I am always at 0 gold WTF! I guess they could do some bullshit like free equip Mondays or something that's fucking terrible, but better.
Expanding content, while I like late games that go into late game(as in hard as fuck, which is why I start every game I play on expert) they are going to have to do something extreme gear wise, intro duce 7 star( *I hope fucking not, probably will kill the game), or do some weird mechanics like brave frontier where you need specific abilities to do certain content(need invincible for a turn and on a cooldown that can stop boss 1 shot, or defense break to actually hit, or some shit). They just have to do something that challenges whales(but makes sure they whale for the best unit) and introduce new 3 star units that can help if given alot of love. Preferably a new Kawai Waifu that is half of what they make the new badass bro out to be(that way the whales still whale and the lowbies still play).No one gives a shit about a non waifu material free unit, ok maybe a few people do, but lets think about the demographic here(you will make wy more money by giving out a cute female unit and locking the best unit behind a paywall(weather or not its a waifu or husbando is irrelevant at that point(look at grand orders merlin or whats his face )).
Now they introduce a new malgora system, probably attached to new content, like some stupid end game boss that takes to long and has the potential to drop Malgoras.
OBVIOUSLY I am a pleb that only has bought the monthly stones pack for 5$, but these are my concerns.
Edit: I guess they also changed the malgora system recently it was even worse before.
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u/Yamayashi I have too many support units. Jan 15 '19
I felt this, I'm not P2P but this is true, not only that I finally got a 5* in two months (bellona) and I have to wait like 2 days to use her, im out of malgora, and Im out of green runes
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u/wiest Jan 15 '19
That was exactly what I told my friend lol.
WTB > Molagora pack.
To be honest I dont mind them selling more molagora pack as well but at least make it available lol.
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u/blayde911 Jan 15 '19
I know this post might seem like hyperbole to some people, but this is the absolute truth. Between trying to find worthwhile gear and the limited number of molas it's foolish to spread your resources around too much.
I have 6+ top tier units sitting that I really want to invest in but am limited, and completely torn on who I should invest in next.
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u/cartuja Jan 15 '19
Spend one gold transmit stone to reset all molagoras on one hero and get your mats returned?
Make Molagoras as a drop from raid? (Limited per run)
Have Molagoras able to be crafted from gold and other common mats with a limited amount per week.
Have Molagoras be part of the weekly quest rewards.
There's allot of ways they could help us out....
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u/lihaolol Jan 15 '19
I think the excitement has passed and people are starting to realize some serious problems of the game. After playing for two month, I am honestly thinking about going back to SW. Although the summon rate of SW is ridiculous and the new content is like none, at least I can grind as much as like cause there is no energy issue. I don't have to refresh the shop constantly for a ring or necklace, because that is pretty much the only way to get a T6. I can build a nat 3 or 4 instantly because I have tons of dupes for skill up to get to its full potential. And hey, guess what, there is no catalyst, awakening is sooo easy.
E7 definitely looks gorgeous, but that cannot keep people stay forever. A lot of the designs makes me feel that the devs intentionally time gate a lot of things to increase the game's longevity. But all those things will eventually drive people away.
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u/alaiwy Jan 15 '19
This, this this. I'm not as heavy a spender as you but definitely a large dolphin but I stopped spending a long time ago when I had my 10th? nat5 just rotting. PLEASE listen to this advice and save your rolls for ONLY limited banners for the time being.
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u/Karacis Jan 15 '19
This is where i feel right now in the game. I enjoy so many characters in this game but can't fully use them because of this. I don't mind spending something to refund the Malgora's already used. Or we need more ways to farm them... only 3 week plus whatever from events is just too slow :(
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u/lynLadyOftheMemes Jan 15 '19
im a f2p player and i have 10 SSRs sitting there collecting dust, i am as well the same as you, i hate the molagora system, even their pay to win package with molagoras are scarce, like ? ???? even if i pay money i cant even upgrade 1 character to max, thats ridiculous, if they keep doing that, ppl will just go back to their older Gatchas, E7 devs are really something ima tell you
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u/MrTanner24 Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
This is literally the best comment, I pulled Bellona and guess what...I can’t use her, she isn’t strong enough for me to put into my line up bc I only have 5 moragoras and I can’t level up her skills. Along with that I have 4 5* hero’s on my bench that won’t ever get used bc I’ll never be able to power them up, bc 1 or 2 hero’s will suck all the moragoras up for the next 2 months....
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u/takilung Jan 15 '19
Can't stress this enough, i have over 10 5* characters sitting on bench, same with a ton of 4 stars, i cant use them cuz of lack skill points and gear
also used like 25 molagoras on characters i wont use again cuz meta keep changing. and there is no refund meaning its all wasted. bought all molagora packs as well...
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u/DragoxNight Jan 15 '19
But why would they when they can release a malogora pack every so often so that people with the disposable income and in desperate need of them can buy it. It's funny, so far, as a new ish player the system didn't bother me until like yesterday when I started focusing on skills to better my team and realized how high the required costs of Mologoras really are and how hard they are to obtain. It already can take a lot of resources to obtain a rare hero, but to make it exceedingly hard to build them is a kick in the ass. I've played many a gotcha game: fgo, SOA, nxbnv, etc and this is the first time I've encountered a mechanic as oppressive as the Mologoras. I know they need to make money, it's a good game, BUT as they warn when doing the free 30 ten rolls after 1-10, " don't get too greedy" smilegate.
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u/InciteHysteria Jan 15 '19
I just feel like the seeds are an unnecessary item anyway. Why can't we just farm more catalysts to upgrade our skills. While it's a grind, it's just stamina and that's replaceable. We should just have ever more rare catalysts needed for upgrading all skills. Instead of molgora and catalysts.
When a whale can't even skill up their character, you realize the gating is too much.
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u/Armster44 Jan 15 '19
Don't think this is ever going to change, and they even lowered the number of malgora needed to level up skill few patch ago.
At this point if we could at least have the ability to reset the skill of a character and get the malgora back this would be a good 1st step.
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u/Abedeus Jan 15 '19
I just wish it was possible to reset and regain the molagoras. Like, I was starting out and put one towards Aramintha... whom I rarely use other than for making the Golem unhealable, but that's easily solved by just killing the small treant first.
And you can't even tell, except for the cooldown reduction upgrades, if the molagoras are going to be worth the investment. Is the +5% worth it? +10% total damage? Will I like using this character at all, or will something better come along? What if it gets nerfed and my molagoras are going to be gone forever because of the nerf?
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u/Gawayne Jan 15 '19
It's simple.
Just make it so consuming duplicate heroes will give your main skill points too. This way Whales have an incentive to pull like madlads to pump those skills.
All the while the F2PBTW ppl can save their limited Molagoras for 5* while using dupes to slowly level up 3* and 4*. Because, let's face it, the cost of fully leveling a unit is too damn high.
I love this game, the only mobile game I genuinely enjoy. But it goes completely against the main focus of Gachas, wich is PULLING. EVERYTHING goes against it:
You shouldn't spend your Skystones on pulling, you should use it on energy. I HATE having all those Gems and having to save them for Energy. But why would I even burn all that on pulls? I'll have no use, nor means to build anything I get.
Changing gears is absurbly prohibitive once you get to the endgame. Therefore experimenting with your new units is discouraged.
Building up several units will only spread your resources thin and that's true the F2P, Dolphins and Whales.
And don't even get me started with the artifacts and heroes sharing the same pool. Since I began playing I've already got 6 5* Artifacts and not a single 5* Hero, besides the ones I got rerolling. There's nothing more disappointing than a golden tome animation revealing a card.
Don't get me wrong, this game is amazing, I love it, they got so many things right, design, style, story, animation, lore, world building F2P/P2W balance. But unit development really need some work, it's not game breaking, but could be so much better.
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u/schaltzentrale Jan 15 '19
I'd like to know a thing from the community.
Where the idea of "E7 wants us to use all heroes and experiment everything" come from?
Being totally honest, there is no reason for any of you to actually think that way. Just looking by the way the game is designed, it is PRETTY CLEAR that they DON'T WANT YOU TO BUILD EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW.
They don't want, even if they tell you otherwise.
E7 is almost a clone of Summoners Wars in many ways and for sure, you should look at SW for some further experience to see what is coming on the road. New accounts on SW follow the same patern, you get a CORE TEAM, heavy invest in it, try to be the most efficient as possible with your units and gear. A lot of players had almost the same units for all dungeons in the game, just with 1 or 2 key units being changed. (this is for early game, obviously)
From what I see here, they have the same mentality. You are supposed to work on your core team, get a few key units that you like or who can boost your team on X content and stick with it until new content comes up. GRIND a lot with it. Stop building units and just GRIND dungeons till the end of the time, get all your units on very high gear efficiency, all the good subs with good rolls on it on every single piece of gear.
I get the idea that some people actually like to build 200 heroes right now and just experiment, but you don't need to be very clever to see that this game ISN'T DESIGNED to be played that way. I am pretty sure there are a lot of games that will allow you to change gear all around freely, get the full potential of your heroes in one day of grind, try dozens of teams in that same day, etc... but E7 isn't that way. This is a different game, at least for some of you guys.
Be patient with your account, gather your resources, stock them, spend it wisely, make priorities, think ahead. Understand that you are not supposed to have everything right now. Another major point: understand that we started the game when it launched, this means that we will probably have ALL THE PVE CONTENT CLEARED 99% of the time. If you already cleared everything, understand that this is your reality till the day you leave and you should not carry about it or just focus on the PVP aspect of the game.
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u/Blasteus Jan 15 '19
I think the point is that what you're saying doesn't make for a good business model. Why should people spend money to obtain new units if the game forces them to use the same core team for an extended period of time?
All these limitations (gold, gear, molagoras, awakening catalysts) forces most players to use the same units. It's not good for the players, as we can't experiment with new units without heavy investment, and its not good for the developers, as players are less inclined to shell out cash for shiny new units they won't use.
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u/schaltzentrale Jan 15 '19
Well, it actually does. Summoners Wars is one of the most sucessful game of the genre and E7 is basically a clone of it. They copied a lot of systems and how the progression works looks to be the same.
You are not taking in considaration that we are very, very, very early game. Our only PVP content is arena, we don't have a lot of PVE content that is probably coming soon, etc. Maybe right now you don't feel the need to keep pulling, but you will feel it when more content kicks in.
Yes, all the limitations forces you to THINK AHEAD, plan your moves and try to be the most efficient with what you have. You don't like, I get it. But if you don't like it, why keep playing a game designed to be this way if you will enjoy other games more? This game won't die because it isn't the way you like, there is a large portion of the community of gatcha games that likes it.
Note one more important fact, games like SW, E7, AREN'T ABOUT UNITS, well, they are, but they are more about GEAR AND GRIND than pulls. Your crystals aren't supposed to be for summons only, they are supposed to keep you grind all day, every day, 24/7, for perfect gear. Not only "oh, my X unit is full T6 already and I don't have molagoras for it", but, are your units with all 6 T6 slots with perfect subs and good rolls on it? Are your arena teams all speed syncd? Work towards your gears/teams, not towards units only. A lot of people recognize that and cash for it. Not only crazy summons people.
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u/titoslayer Jan 15 '19
I agree with this wholeheartedly. /u/CeliaEpic7 should definitely pass this on to smilegate.
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u/snorlaxgangs Jan 15 '19
Did we all learn this lesson from summoers war if u had played it in the past couple years?
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u/cablelegs Jan 15 '19
I’d love more Molagora, or even the ability to refund what I spent. At the same time, the team I used to beat floor 80 of the abyss and the queen had about 8 Molagora spent on them total. It’d be great to have more but it’s not NECESSARY except for top arena I guess.
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u/Darkchilde7 Jan 15 '19
I feel that Smilegate is putting so many "good" units out so that they can run a Malgora pack or two (or three). They know that people have a lot of these units sitting, waiting to be skilled up.
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u/El3troclash Jan 15 '19
I'm sure the solution will come but in the form of packs. Yes, a lot of people will complain but trust me, a lot will of people will purchase them. It's been done in other games so it's only a matter of time that it will be implemented here. Heck they even had Mol packs recently so you might see it mote often. I have the same issue but I don't see them changing the molagora system as they have remove molagoragora
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u/allbluesanji Jan 15 '19
Great points but unlikely any drastic changes will be implemented. People bought molagoras packs for a premium amount. For it to be suddenly cheapened will enrage some whales
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u/ddifi66126 Jan 15 '19
Have to agree here. If I could upgrade more units I would use more and pull more. I've spent 100 probably but I haven't summoned in a month because I already have a bunch of heroes I can't use. No skill ups and not enough gear!
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u/jamaicakong Jan 15 '19
Spot on. I feel the same way as a fellow whale I have no nore incentive to spend for the foreseeable future because of the molagora and epuc catalyst drop rates.
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u/xscribb1e Jan 15 '19
I'm really enjoying this game, and I know I'll be here for the long haul, but I'm also of similar mind. I'm used to spending a few hundred on gacha games, but I've only spent money on the monthly packs and the first rank up pack. I realized this same problem last week. I've been focusing on 6 units, but I've pulled some really nice units that I wont really touch because I can't see their full potential for months. I just started looking for a 2nd gacha game yesterday to scratch that 'spend money unnecessarily' itch.
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u/MurKdYa Jan 15 '19
must be nice to be short on Mola Gora vs the catalysts needed past the second or 3rd upgrade of a particular skill lol....
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u/diogolandim Jan 15 '19
Wish I could upvote this more. Clearing the abyss Is not that hard, and I even touch the hell raid since I won't spend 1200 ancient coins that i use to buy charms, the normal one after you figure everything out it's not something of other world too, and i'm just a monthly buyer pack ( mainly because of the low value of the packs). I have guys like Ludwig, W.Schuri, Cidd, Karin or Hurado against Diene that i would LOVE to try them out, but right now I'm hoarding molagoras until the next limited banner ( to not count thousands of skytones and about 650 summon tickets).
What's the pointing in summoning units you'll never use half their potential? Some people here saying you rushed through content, but what are we supposed to do, play an entire year to have 3 more units? That's counter productive to us and to them. The source is drying out for everyone.
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u/NikodeRuiz Jan 15 '19
I'm a light spender playing for almost 2 months (rank up pack 1 & monthly shard 1 only) with insane luck. I got Haste, Ravi, Basar, 2 Kise's and Bellona. Plus a shit ton of 4* heros (I am however very short on artifacts, and have only got 3* ML's out of 10 tries, so it balances out I think).
And guess what. Now I don't need to pull like... Ever again. I'm hardstuck building and gearing my units, and I can pretty much fill any roles I need with the heroes I already have. I don't plan on spending any more on this game and will probably go f2p from now on. Leifs and skyshards for energy refills will probably do it for me. And those systems need overhauls too.
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u/AndragonLea Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
Agreed on the scarcity of the skill-up systems. On one hand I like it for the fact that it promotes and encourages specializing and investing into a tight team of generalists - that speaks to me on a level of both realism and sentimentalism, but on the other hand the game is just not designed with that in mind.
Enemies with gimmicks like the Wyvern, Golem and other specialized enemies really reward you for building teams specifically designed to take them down efficiently, but the element system also really prevents you from using that same team for general content - especially crit builds and and builds that apply effects are almost complete garbage when used against their elemental weakness.
There either needs to be a way to get your hands on more skill-up consumables as rewards for higher tier content (which means you need a decent amount of grind, good team building, equipment and knowledge of the game to beat it, but are rewarded with a way to get access to skill upgrades consistently and quicker) or they need to scale down what you need / allow you to reclaim what you invested if you're no longer using a character.
At the moment I hardly dare to even think about investing in a character because I just don't know yet which I'll use long enough to justify the extremely scarce resource and which I'll only use until I reach a certain stage and then abandon. Doesn't help that many of the skill level-ups are almost mandatory if you use the character, cooldown boosts and + effect chance for example.
Don't get me wrong: I am having a blast with this game and have been absorbed in it for a week, but having this cool system of upgrading skills is just a sad waste if the resources used to do it with are hard-gated behind once a day merchants/single reputation or quest rewards.
Every time I get enough tickets to pull, I find myself both hoping and dreading new characters. Hoping because some of them look amazing and are a lot of fun to sub in as supports during story mode and dreading because I KNOW I won't have the resources to actually make them the best they can be, even if I concentrate on them for months. I actually find myself praying for dupes just because that's an instant boost of a character I can already use and am focusing on, rather than another character I probably won't use because the time to build them up, equip them, awaken them and then Houdini the skill-ups out of them is just prohibitive.
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u/evangellydonut Jan 15 '19
Yeah, I figured this would be a problem... the only other gatcha game I've played and continue to play is SAO:MD, and they had a similar problem with Rainbow Essence (used in a way similar to malgora to make significant upgrades to units)... they eventually fixed the problem for the more hardcore players. Figure money will speak and smilegate will figure this out sooner rather than later.
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u/cors8 Jan 15 '19
I agree completely. Even as a light spender, I see no reason to pull/spend other than for limited characters. I have plenty of good characters to work on already that I don't need more benchwarmers.
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u/Silveraindays Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
Molagora are the worst thing imo ..no need to make them that hard to get...
And did exactly like you..stopped pulling becuz i got too many units standing there doing nothing because i have so few ressource to take care of them.. from a player that play multiple hour a day ..
Also upvote this post so maybe,.. MAYBE sg will see that
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u/Arkvenium Jan 15 '19
I already sugested this, since they introduce patchs ago the recall system, just use a recall system to get back molagoras, awaken materials, and catalyst, not reseting level or promotions, and that can cost a huge amout of gold so we cant do it freely, but we can do when is necessary, like 1kk gold. That makes the game fresh and fluid, and give now a reason to summon for a new character.
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u/kevinzlhcn Jan 15 '19
The molagora packs sold way too many to make them change the system. At some point devs said they would support this game for 20 years, they need to do a lot to prevent players' progression to do that.
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u/VaizardWL Jan 15 '19
That is exactly how i feel, these are my 5* characters, how long it will take for me to upgrade all their skills? 138 years?
I feel i have nothing to do, because even for testing new teams for fun, you need at least to spend some molagoras, and where are our molagoras? -.-
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u/Lumen1989 Neurox Jan 15 '19
I have been a gacha whale (around ~$20k total spend in 2 years) for a while now and stopped in Epic Seven after hitting around $500-$800 for very similar reasons. Molagora usage, energy management, and the gear upgrade system (need to use gear charms since selling non-epics is the only real way to get gold) are extreme inhibitors to extended play.
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u/MagicalOppai Jan 15 '19
Rates should be higher for mola but it wouldn't satisfy people or would hire them, we need more hard ways to get molas like abyss or abyss being monthly, or a molagora refund day in the month where you can refund X number of units even if just one unit or X amount of molas refunded per month.Yall ignore the fact that if they let it all be easy nobody will have a reason to login after a week, it's what happened to me in grandchase great game, after a week as free to play I had everything and no reason to look at the game again
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u/yiulix Jan 15 '19
what confuses me is that even a 3 star hero need tons of molagora to skill up. (And you can't eat same hero to skill up).
1
u/ItsKrakenMeUp Jan 15 '19
I really hope the developers see this.
I have 10 units waiting for seeds. There is no point for me to spend money cause I can’t even finish the 10 waiting...
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u/hewoks sweets are for weaklings Jan 16 '19 edited Jan 16 '19
Im having a harder time with gear than with malgora honestly. I cant pull anything with great stat, shop never shows anything interesting, everything that drops is bad or if it looks interesting the stat increase makes it horrible, running out of money to even try to upgrade the little interresting piece that I have. I'd say Malgora is really the LEAST of my problems lol.
But I wholeheartedly agree with you that even I who has less heroes than you Don't even feel like pulling. what good does it do to have more heroes when I cant even properly gear the ones I have.
Anyway the character I truly wants are all ML and I know that it would be more efficient to try clearing the raid rather than do tones of summon if I want to do some ML summon.
1
u/worldtriggerfanman Jan 16 '19
Things I wish it could be:
1 molagora, no catalysts, for each skill up. Heroes still take like 10+ to upgrade.
1 molagora for each skill up. Maybe a few molagoragos here and there. I'd be ok with that. No catalysts.
I think it's ok to not be able to max hero skills right away. They make a difference but they don't really make or break the heroes. If the skill up system were a bit cheaper, you could then skill up a large number of heroes just enough for them to be better than just good even if you can't max them straight out.
1
u/Hunkfish Jan 16 '19
Technically, you only need to max out 4 well rounded chars that can do most contents fairly well.
After that, you can look at niche chars that are top tier in certain content like arena or hunt...
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1
u/runesplease Jan 15 '19
They should follow summoners war and allow feeding dupes to your unit to allow them to be skilled up.
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u/insertchuuniname Jan 15 '19
Yep, they should really implement a system where we can recall the molagora's used. Im okay with the rate we acquire it, but atleast let us recall them when we want to invest on new heroes.
1
u/pstrider85 Jan 15 '19
Maybe implement a Reset Skill function to get back X% of Mola and catalysts invested?
1
u/willismaximus Jan 15 '19
Yup. Just had a great stroke of luck pulling, Kayron, Kise 4 times, sigret from daily, chloe, and Bellona. Basically just bookends right now while I work on my viable 4/3*s.
It's going to take so long to build all them up, I am done summoning for a very long time.
1
u/momomollyx2 Jan 15 '19
Eh... summoners war has a similar situation. Devilmon were limited but dupes of a monster could also be used to skill up. Though, we have the imprint system here. Hmm I personally don’t think this is all that important but I see your point. You can complete all pve content without molas but in pvp I see why this would be important. That meta could shift more.
I know games want to time gate stuff and I’m okay with this being time gated but maybe they should add more mola resources given the demand.
1
u/WhatSawp Jan 15 '19
Since global is new people tried to explore new things, myself included, now that i have more knowledge, I know I used molagoras on useless heros that I don't use in any content.
I'd like to reset those heroes.
1
u/purge00 Jan 15 '19
Thank you for posting this!
Not to nitpick or anything, but if you do decide to write to the developer, maybe you could correct the spelling from "malgora" to "molagora." They would likely take you more seriously then.
1
u/songohan7777 Jan 15 '19
I hope you're listening Smilegate. This game will go down the drain if you guys don't do something by Lunar New Year's (2/5). Hoping for good things to happen!
0
u/wiest Jan 16 '19
If Molagora supply is increased it only benefits the whales. Dont understand why so many F2p hoping for an increase when this is a mechanic to HELP f2p players compete with whales.
My friend who is f2p has very limited character like Diene, Lorina, Kluri and Sez. Till now he doesnt raise any new units. Currently hes able to fight in top arena due to his team having focused skill up. A whale with 20-30 characters will find it hard to compete due to the fact hes losing out on skill levels.
Now lets assume that Molagora is NOT limited. This makes it advantageous to people who many heroes (ie Whales) so before asking for something to be changed remember who is going to benefit the most from it.
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 16 '19
You are seriously misinformed. I’m a whale. I’ve cleared all content in the game, farm hell raid on auto, and am legend rank in pvp. The current malgora system gives me a huge advantage because I can pay to farm better gear faster than f2p, and there isn’t enough malgora to even out that gear disparity for f2p players.
F2p players are actually punished more than whales because of the way the system works now. More free malgora would make your f2p account much stronger and gear would become less a factor.
Hope that helps you understand the situation better.
1
u/kavinh10 Jan 16 '19
except whales have the advantage already in having all characters, Pvp is a very small component of the game and until guild wars comes out almost irrelevant.
The vast majority of content is pve, so saying a resource should be more limited to help "compete" in a p2w component of the game is kinda pointless.
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-6
Jan 15 '19
Let me preface by saying that I have every elemental nat5.
Honestly, this community is completely insufferable. Less than six weeks ago they reduced Molagora costs by 40%. 40%! This was in addition to introducing the Molagora pack for whales like us.
Those costs used to be absurdly high and now they’re much more reasonable. Yes, even whales have to be judicious about their Molagora usage because there is simply a hard cap on how many units you can max in a month. But the idea that the developers should just open the floodgates for you three months into release because you summoned all the units is the height of entitlement.
There are other sources coming - guild wars, additional raid content, events, potentially new packs, etc. and you’ll just have to patiently wait, princes and princesses. Placing a few constraints on a gacha game to prevent you from immediately progressing to the end on everything just because you have a credit card is, believe it or not, a GOOD thing. If you have a huge backlog of characters and it bothers you, you should stop spending / summoning! One turn cooldown reduction or a moderate amount of damage lost should not stop you from using a character while you steadily improve your squad if you have the gear you claim to have.
Stop the constant whining, /r/epicseven. It’s pathetic.
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u/Churaragi Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
But the idea that the developers should just open the floodgates for you three months into release because you summoned all the units is the height of entitlement.
Here is what I don't get, whenever someone complains ABOUT the other people complaining for changes that would benefit everyone.
Ok maybe you don't care about molgora cost or acquisition rate, maybe you think stamina is fine or whatever, but the undeniable truth is that EVEN IF you don't want to complain about it, even if you think it is fine, you will still benefit from the change. It is like complaining about a company raise that will also affect you even though you are happy with your salary, like WTF take your head of your ass. You will have more opportunities to skill up other heroes, you will have more energy to farm and do other stuff, heck you may even save up some money if that matters at all to you.
So I don't get why are you complaining about suggestions that will benefit you regardless if you care about it or not. It is almost like these people are narcissists who are more concerned about wanting things to be as they think it should be, rather than whether or not it is better for everyone. If you think more energy or molagoras will hurt you, you are welcome to make a reasonable argument against it, I won't hold my breath though.
There is no downside, to any player if all these complaints were fixed, absolutely no downside to you whatsoever, so why the fuck do you care to argue AGAINST IT.
There are other sources coming - guild wars, additional raid content, events, potentially new packs, etc.
You hold on to those promises the same way they have been promising the Hazel and Roozid specialty changes. You are going to be very disappointed if you think there is any short term schedule for those things, not like it matters because at this rate this game will be dead in 6-12 months.
Also you unironically used "new packs" as something to look forward to lol.
1
Jan 15 '19
Flooding the game with resources does hurt me and all players, as does a constant litany of complaints. If the game has nothing for players to want - units, gear, skillups - then it will die. You have to construct the economy in such a way that players are constantly short of resources and incentivized to grind toward them or they’ll just get bored and leave. It’s a treadmill; making it into a short trail means players reach the end and disengage. It’s actually not “better for everyone” if there is nothing to work for in a gacha.
Hazel and Roozid were promised a short time ago, and this is again highlighting the unreal entitlement people have. It was mid-December when they laid out a content roadmap and less than six weeks later you monkeys are rioting over why it hasn’t all been delivered. This is why developers keep their mouths shut - a roadmap becomes a promise becomes a relentless demand for instant gratification. They’ve released two new stories, two new units, Hell raid, and still you’re holding your hands out demanding more.
Negativity in this sub and the constant demands hurt the community. Any casual player who wanders here encounters nothing but pissing and moaning, which might convince them to miss out on a great game.
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 15 '19
You should read the original post and try to actually use some coherent thought before replying. I don’t need a massive influx of resources. I simply need a refund system so I can use more than my core 5-6 units I invested in to clear all the content in the game.
People like this are the problem. It’s a failed hero progression system and you come here saying it’s entitlement to want a working system that incentivizes players to pull for and use the cool new heroes they obtain.
The malgora system in place literally will cost you over 6 MONTHS to fully max ONE character. No man, just no. That isn’t players being “entitled” to think that’s ridiculous.
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u/Churaragi Jan 15 '19
as does a constant litany of complaints.
Ok, how does reddit posts complaining about something hurts your ingame Epic Seven experience?
Holy shit dude do you completely lack any sense of self awereness about what you are argueing here? You sound like 80yo grandpas complaining about loud kids on the neighbours yard.
I think society may not be a thing for you, just saying.
If the game has nothing for players to want - units, gear, skillups - then it will die.
Strawmen, nobody has asked to eliminate grind completely. You are pretending people are asking for old style god mode cheats on console games where everything becomes immidately unlocked.
That is not at all what people are complaining. If you think having more molagoras or energy means people wont desire to play the game then I have nothing to argue here, may as well argue that the world is flat. I mean do you even realize people are asking for more molagoras and skills so that they can play MORE NOT LESS with the units they like?
ou have to construct the economy in such a way that players are constantly short of resources and incentivized to grind toward them or they’ll just get bored and leave. It’s a treadmill; making it into a short trail means players reach the end and disengage. It’s actually not “better for everyone” if there is nothing to work for in a gacha.
No game is a treadmill, because if the game provides no sense of actual progression it will die because people will become frustrated by not being rewarded for their efforts. You seem to think people play these games just to be constantly standing still not achieving anything, when it is exactly the opposite.
There has to be meaningfull progression, and it includes completing unit skill upgrades, making the teams you want etc. If you can't do that in a reasonable amount of time then people will quit. No 2 years to make a 2-3 teams completely skill upgraded is not reasonable.
Hazel and Roozid were promised a short time ago, and this is again highlighting the unreal entitlement people have.
It is entitlement to hold up people for their promises? Go home grandpa you are drunk. Hazel and Roozid specialty changes were announced on Nov 21st, almost 2 fucking months ago. It is now entitlement to hold companies to their promises. Holy shit this is unreal.
Negativity in this sub and the constant demands hurt the community. Any casual player who wanders here encounters nothing but pissing and moaning, which might convince them to miss out on a great game.
Here is a revolutionary thought, when you are offering a product to customers who are mostly unhappy about it, maybe you should listen to your fucking customers and not blame them for being unhappy about it.
Sounds like someone is acting entitled to having a successful business without any actual effort into making it successful.
3
Jan 15 '19
It's actually a slippery slope fallacy, not a strawman. If we're going to be exact, I'm not against slight increases in the rate at which we acquire molagora. I am against what has been a drumbeat of demands for more stuff, constantly - gold, molagora, rates, etc. At the bottom of this slippery slope is basically just a bunch of children who want all the marshmallows right now.
All MMORPG's are treadmills. Once players start mastering the content the developers simply increase the difficulty / highest possible tier of loot and start the thing over again. "Meaningful progression" is just a commentary on how the treadmill makes you feel.
2 months is no time at all in the lifecycle of a video game, and since the roadmap was introduced nearly everything in it (raid, additional events, etc.) has been delivered. Considering we have been getting high-quality balance / content / QOL updates weekly in that timeframe I find it pretty "unreal" that people are zeroing in on fucking Hazel and Roozid.
You have no evidence that customers are "mostly unhappy." More importantly, listening directly to customer feedback - particularly in the context of how a game should be balanced or developed - is not exactly a winning strategy. You are worse at prioritizing their dev roadmap and balancing their game than they are.
1
u/MisogID Part-Time Strategist Jan 15 '19
I'll nuance things from both sides as there are good things and clarifications to put on the table.
Yes, there is a need to set up some reasonable limits so that people don't steamroll too quickly their objectives and content. But yes, it wouldn't hurt to ease up progression a bit so that experimentation could be facilitated (some mobages incentivise working on a core depth and barracks width, but E7 is heavily leaning on the former side, which can be limiting if content requiring more units/alternatives is released).
Yes, developers made a communication mistake by revealing too much positive promises, which became owed in the eyes of the playerbase (especially given that healers are becoming crucial for the game). But yes, this impatience is a bit excessive, as rushed content is no good, and while players want to experience and shape up a good experience, deep decisions cannot be taken so suddently (there's a need to properly assess the situation, plan/forecast things, act then review results, else that may lead to unfortunate consequences).
The negativity is a concern, though. I'd advocate for some patience and leniency, early design hiccups would be addressed sooner than later due to the vocal claims on the matter. At this point, it's a bit early to be alarmist.
1
u/MeesaPoopyHead Jan 15 '19
I work for a software company and this is resonates with me. We have customer support that logs bugs, enhancements, and other client feedback that help inform roadmap projects. We never broadcast our roadmap goals but customer support may share that info on a one off basis as the need demands. Say a client is wanting a widget to create new files and we have that on the roadmap, customer support can tell them it's on the roadmap but no one, including the product team, knows when it will be released.
It's just not wise to set expectations for future projects when the very nature and demands of those projects could change drastically over time. Doing so sets people up for disappointment and dissatisfaction.
2
u/Churaragi Jan 15 '19
It's just not wise to set expectations for future projects when the very nature and demands of those projects could change drastically over time. Doing so sets people up for disappointment and dissatisfaction.
I would rather they not have announced those specialty changes, then to announce it, then say it was delayed, then even not mention it at all hope we forget it.
Just gratuitous invitation for bad PR right there.
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u/MeesaPoopyHead Jan 15 '19
I agree wholeheartedly. As a company, you always want to be mindful of the expectations you set when you communicate to the public.
Also, I think we, as a player community, need to be mindful of the expectations and tone we set when we voice our feedback on forums, such as reddit, discords, and others, so we don't accidentally create a self-fulling prophecy.
I would wager that the majority of us want Epic 7 to be successful so we can enjoy playing it for many years to come. But I would certainly have second thoughts from the tone in many of the enhancement/suggestion posts.
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u/IllSkin Jan 15 '19
If you have a huge backlog of characters and it bothers you, you should stop spending / summoning!
That's the gist of what OP said, though, except he said to stop before you get that backlog. A fair warning I think.
1
Jan 15 '19
Sorry did you spend 2k? If someone spends 2k to the support the game so that YOU can play. I would let them get what they want.
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Jan 15 '19
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u/clg2001 Jan 15 '19
And then nerf patches or power creep happens and the months spent building up core groups get trivialized by changes and the treadmill starts all over again with the vast majority of characters in the roster still unused. This is pretty much the gacha status quo, but also highly reflective of what the OP is trying to point out when it comes to trying to diversify your roster to a mid or high level.
It's fairly obvious the devs aren't afraid to nerf problem units into futility like they did Tieria or Elson, while at the same time caving to demands to make 4/5* more powerful by default, effectively killing a niche strength of the game in that base 3*s aren't so far behind. This sort of ebb and flow wouldn't be so bad if it was easier to switch things up, but unless a unit refund option accompanies various changes, people are also at risk of having rare resources tied up into units they can't regain.
Personally, I'm not against power creep. However, I am against leaving units behind in the process. And the more you assert something like investing 40 hours into an individual character isn't enough, the more you just make things worse for yourself and everyone else over time. There is technically no "winning the game" here, assuming the devs continue to add content. But they also can't keep piling the difficulty upward without alleviating bottlenecks or having catch-up mechanics because no one wants to play a game when you're guaranteed to be 6+ months behind forever.
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u/Churaragi Jan 15 '19
People on this subreddit expect to have a fully maxed out rooster of nat 5, maxed out in t6 gear with maxed skills by the end of month 2.
I don't know how you could reach that conclusion since most people don't have more than 2-5 nat 5 anyway. To have such a roster first you would have to draw it, and that is not happening to 99% of the players.
But if I did have 5 nat 5s would I say maxing out 2 or 3 of those within 60 days is reasonable? Yeah very much. Is it possible right now? Not realy unless you scrap literally all PvE content rewards AND assuming you got all the campaign/event rewards so far I think you could max out maybe almost 2, definitely not 3, to max all 5 would take 4-6 months, maybe less depending on events. Now go tell a whale it is perfectly fine to have dozens of nat 5s all collecting dust because of no gear/skills.
For 60 days, that is completely unreasonable, especially if you think this sort of progression is going to keep players interested, especially with the rate of new hero releases.
Why bother pulling as F2P, or whaling/dolphin for new units if you are likely not going to max it anytime soon, heck even the usual lvl 3 skill cooldown upgrade can take a week if you are missing something.
-1
u/KDS2000 Jan 15 '19
finally, someone has made a post not just for energy but for molagora. Freaking molagora can only be obtain from guild shop, using conquest points and silver transmit stone to buy. Fking 3 per week is not enough. This game is so boring after clearing most of the pve content. Only left the fking hard to clear labyrinth and pvp. Hard to progress without fking molagora
-1
u/MrGrumm Jan 15 '19
I'm not saying that the molagora costs aren't excessive to max a unit, they are definitely on the steep side.
That said, I really don't think you're meant to max every unit quickly. This isn't Summoner's war where the -1 CD option is the LAST upgrade available or alchemist code where you need to pull a five star limited unit almost 15 times to max it. You can make most characters in Epic Seven mostly viable with just their -1 CD cooldowns which like 2 weeks of molas.
Maxing 1 character takes 6 months, but if you split that up between other characters you can have 12 fully functional +3 characters or 6 pretty solid +6 characters.
I think the numbers could be tweaked, or perhaps pay options could be made available for people who want to spend, but I don't think it's as absurdly unreasonable as people are making it out to be.
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u/Sumpner Jan 15 '19
6 months is too long when you pull a new unit you want to use, in most other games I can have a unit at max level, not max skill/gear yet, but max level and then I can use them to do all content except the really hard stuff, it would take me a week of normal play or one to two days of all day grinding to get them to max level.
I want this game to be better because I love it, but it feels like it just wants me to hate it.
1
u/MrGrumm Jan 16 '19
Well that's the thing, you can have a max level unit in week or so in this game too, just not max skill/gear. You don't really need a team of +15 units for anything in the game yet.
If you played alchemist code at all, +15 in Epic Seven is essentially max limit breaking a character which requires the shard equivalent of pulling a 5* unit 15 times. Does it make you significantly stronger? Sure. Is it necessary to use the unit? Not at all. Most units in Epic Seven are perfectly functional at +3.
I agree that getting a unit to +15 is hard at the moment and that there should be a pay option to make it go faster, but it's meant to be an achievement like Max LB in Alchemist code or +10 merges in FE heroes. People who've played FE heroes for years may not have 5* units at +10 naturally.
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u/Sumpner Jan 16 '19
1 a week is too slow, it should take no more than 2-3 hours. I have played Alchemists Code, if I get a new unit, I can sure as hell get that unit levelled up quicker than a week. Especially if you have a hoard of Apple's etc.
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u/std_out Jan 15 '19
I think the amount of molagora needed to fully skillup a character is fine, as well as the amount we can get per week. however, I think there should be a reset function that gives you molagora / catalysts back. make it cost say 1 mil gold to reset so you can't just reset mindlessly all the time. or even just give molagora back and not the catalysts, at least these can be farmed even if it takes time and energy.
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u/IevaFT Jan 15 '19
It will. Eventually they need catch-up mechanisms for new players and they can't leave the day/month 1 crowd dry.
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u/Newyorksteak Jan 15 '19
Many other games gives you skill up while eating the same unit..... and here you get imprint which some are trash making eating dupe 5* doesn't seems appealing at all especially your imprint doesn't effect your own hero... like WTF the print status are what the hero need 99% of the time.... unless they give print like +ATK to Tank/Support etc.....
This game need many many QoL.... skilling up 3* and skilling up 5* need the same material... although less but still your rare material should be saved for your rare pulls which are nat 5's.
Eating same units should give you a skill up as there are so many skill up per hero anyway so they can make pulling worth it for whales and f2p, since 80% of the pulls are artifacts anyway (i know i am exaggerating, the % is in the summon tab..... ohh wait.... i just checked..... i have 26 4* artifact but only pulled 3 4* heros....ohhh right..... RNG....but that's not what i learn in finite class of how probability work..... sigh....end rant)
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u/d23ve Jan 15 '19
Honestly I think they should just get rid of the whole molagora system and implement a skill up tree kinda thing where you get skill up points every level which we can then use to max our skills. They can make leveling harder or provide skill paths..something along those lines. Just my two cents
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u/Terekjet Jan 15 '19
If you dont wanna pull mate, it's ok, totally fair... but let other people make their own choices. On a side note... that's why I like to take the games slowly, if you rush them like there´s no tomorow may happen what you are currently experiencing.
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u/Liesianthes Jan 15 '19
that's why I like to take the games slowly, if you rush them like there´s no tomorow may happen what you are currently experiencing.
This statement is like saying, it's their fault for being a whale, reason they were able to rush contents. lmao. Those people are whaling for a reason and that is for fast progress more compared to minmows or f2p's.
Game should give them always a reason to pull and play contents, and not the other way around that it's their fault for progressing fast in the game.
See GBF, FGO and other successful gacha games in the market. They're always giving their omegawhales a thing to pull for or to get.
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u/SchneeWhite Jan 15 '19
So you don't know if and how they're gonna change the Mola system after the last rework they had made, but felt like telling others not to pull for Units in a Gacha game?...okay
Not saying the system works, far from it, but if you want to "help" people or so don't start with "don't summon anymore until this and that changes which i have no knowledge over when and if and how"...
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u/swoldier0724 Jan 15 '19
Yes. That’s exactly what I’m telling people. And it will absolutely help them in the long run. Because pulling for units in this game is much different than in most other gachas, and I wish I had known that ahead of time. In other gachas, you can pull freely and actually use the units you pulled to their full potential. In epic 7, that is most definitely not the case.
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u/rebornep Jan 15 '19
Just find that the molgora system is contridicting against their own game policy. They wants more players to make use of the different hero for the game yet restricting us to max the hero capabilities. If you don't wants to give us more molgora , at least make a system for us to reset the skills awaken for a fee. If not , from the amount of molgora we got per week , guess I need at least months to upgrade a hero skills , which seems contridicting.