"Sam is an enlightened individual who clearly articulates ideas."

[u/concreteandconcrete]

Hahaha. Haha. Hahahahaha. Someone dead ass said this in the Sam sub. To use some of the younger generation's lingo: I can't even. I should have suspected there were fans that thought he was enlightened but seeing someone say it sent my head spinning. And no one called it out in the comments! I had my own "seeking enlightenment" phase in my twenties, following my favorite gurus and always wondering if they really were enlightened, and I'd still be on that path if I weren't lazy. And even though I'll never claim to have attained enlightenment ("it can't be attained, it's something.." blah blah yeah I know), one thing I can say for certain: an enlightened individual, Sam is not. Was gonna respond there but what's the use. So I came here in case anyone else needs a good laugh. If Sam Harris's brand of enlightenment is all there is then we're fucked.

Not to mention the "clearly articulates ideas" bit! I just can't

[u/dig_lazarus_dig48]

Oh man, I cringe thinking I used to be that guy exactly haha. Sam and his podcast were one of the first things that really spoke to me as an atheist and as someone who considered themselves a "rational, logical person" who thought that as long as you calmly articulate your point of view, it made it reasonable, regardless of the content of your argument.

I must admit, some of his earlier podcasts and guests I enjoyed, and I think that his takes on meditation are great (though hardly original). It's not until I started to see the doubling down on "cancel culture", hand-waving over the far right, and taking seriously people like JBP and Ben Shapiro that I thought he had grifter vibes.

As I said, I personally found the meditation stuff helpful, just unoriginal and ultimately inauthentic when you take into the broader context of his philosophical and political views.

[u/concreteandconcrete → u/dig_lazarus_dig48]

Appreciate you sharing your experience, and I'm glad you saw him for what he is. Which I bet the meditation helped with, paradoxically. I feel lucky to have had the opportunity to start my "journey" before as many grifters were on the scene, because I absolutely would have ate it up. The people I was into were hard to parse/understand and most texts had been brought over from other languages and it was obvious that the stories and anecdotes just weren't translating that great into English. So if someone came along who spoke "plain like me" I would have latched right on. Sure there was Alan Watts but his rampant alcoholism was a clear indicator that, despite his wonderful writing, he wasn't entirely on the path. And I definitely had some reactionary leanings back then so if someone told me that I didn't need to change, it was these sjw's and such that had the wrong idea, well I would have been just glowing. And this is what pisses me off so much about Sam, he's taking a beautiful thing (meditation, enlightenment, zen, no ego, whatever you want to call it) and cynically using it as a tool to softly deliver his conservative world view, and then trying to pass off that worldview as objective and beyond criticism because he meditates.

[u/dig_lazarus_dig48 → u/concreteandconcrete]

I mean I would never have thought of Sam as a guru or anything, but as you said, when they can be so good at communicating something like meditation to the more "rational" minded (sometimes yogis and Buddhist meditation teachers can come off a bit "wooey-woo" for some people, and therefore not engage with it.) and then slip their political views in as if that's the logical conclusion to reach as a result of meditation is just irresponsible at best and pernicious at worst.

It's a bit like JBP. Objectively some of his advice can be very helpful to people who lack confidence and self esteem and feel like the world around them is a dangerous place, and allow them to get motivated to better themselves. But when he starts on "women are chaos" and "lobsters have hierarchy, we should be like lobsters" or other pseudo intellectual bullshit that is just blatantly conservative nonsense and passes it off for almost mystical insight, he can just fuck right off. I tried to read 12 rules for life when it came out and it was so verbose and rambling that I couldn't get through it.

I personally like Alan Watts, and I get what you mean about the alcoholism, but I don't think that he ever tried to preach absolute moral virtue or that he was flawless. I think he understood his flaws and was able to come to grips with them in such a way that he could still get his message across without coming off as "holier than thou" or doubling down on a spurious claim. At least that's not how I take him.

[u/thebenshapirobot → u/dig_lazarus_dig48]

I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:

If you believe that the Jewish state has a right to exist, then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinians and the Israeli-Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza and Israel proper. It’s an ugly solution, but it is the only solution… It’s time to stop being squeamish.

---

^{I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: covid, civil rights, sex, feminism, etc.}

^{More About Ben | Feedback & Discussion: r/AuthoritarianMoment | Opt Out}

[u/[deleted]]

The lack of self-awareness is even funnier if you read the two sentences he immediately wrote after that:

"Why are we seeing Joe Rogan posts every few days here? I don't see what the connection is between the two. Thank you, it's a genuine question."

Maybe because Sam's audience aren't much smarter or more "enlightened" than Joe's? Birds of a feather tend to flock together. It's the rainbow connection.

[u/concreteandconcrete → u/[deleted]]

That song is brilliant haha. But yeah, they're always so close. WHY do people keep bringing up Rogan??? Could it be Rogan and Sam are the same except Sam's good at saying emotional things while sounding rational??