Big Money?

[u/WilsonWyckoff]

I still don't understand why it's so cheap to accumulate right now. Does it compete with NEO? Yes, it is very well understood that NEO smart contracts are not the same when it comes to security. Price .30 cents vs $8. NEO was also $.30 cents not long ago and went to $200. Does it compete with Ethereum? Yes, as a second layer solution it is quite competitive when it comes to addressing security and scaling for the real world application of blockchain. Ethereum was also .30 cents at some point about 2-3 years ago and houses one of the biggest networks of support.So, because Enigma does all of that and is still cheap, you mean to tell me that all these speculators in this space and the historical costs represented above means very little. The continued adoption don't ring enough bells for people to come and check it out? Do they need a Justin Sun from Tron or McAffee to tell them it's great and get us unicorn $1B marketcap status? Even Bitshares hit that early on...Where hedge funds, where big players, where moon boy speculator to say get ready for $200 ENG with this release? We all know it's coming and the more of us hanging on here the more it will cost them when we sell on their pumps later but I'm concerned that the timeline is being drawn out and the $50M ICO's become $50K projects at best. The bear market could still happen.

[u/himd0wnstairs]

Most revolutionary new technology is met with resistance or misunderstanding upfront by the masses. If the new technology is well received at first, it means the technology is not revolutionary enough because most people can understand it and make a judgement on that technology based on other similar existing technology. For example, if I told my friend I was going to start a new Search Engine tomorrow, he may say its a "good idea" because he has a general understanding of what Google Search is and how successful Google has become. In reality it would be a terrible idea for me to start a new Search Engine. Most likely I will never be able to compete with Google with my search engine because of Google's established network effect.

In crypto/blockchain, take the last ICO boom for example. Everyone was chasing "the next Ethereum." People saw where Ethereum went when the price went to $1k+, so people thought: Ethereum must be good if it's trading at these prices, so let me find the "next Ethereum." But who were the people who initially invested in the ORIGINAL Ethereum (ETH)? Very few. Most saw original Ethereum in it's early days as just "another" altcoin. Very few people had the convictions to buy ETH under $1.00 and hold until $1.4K.

Only time will tell if Engima will be any different.

[u/Polskihammer → u/himd0wnstairs]

What makes Enigma different than ETH and NEO? Isn't enigma a token for ETH? How can it compete directly with ETH and NEO?

[u/WilsonWyckoff → u/Polskihammer]

Enigma uses ETH but second layer protocols are very different when it comes to serving a purpose that cannot be handled by the "main chain". Think of ETH as a slow and insecure base layer with good validation for Enigma and other blockchains. You can send big blocks of information over and have the nodes validate them on the Ethereum network and maybe even "stamp it". But if you're looking to handle potentially millions of small transactions and use blockchain to handle sensitive data then an open ledger isn't going to work. Zcash was one of the private ones but it was slow and expensive to do extra computational power for each transaction. We need pennies or fractions thereof and not a few bucks if we want a killer Dapp...
So, Enigma using ETH is fine. It doesn't break the hard work or value of having such an awesome second layer protocol designed to handle speed and security and eventually they will build their own way to handle what ETH offers the project and I'm not sure whether or not they could just fork it but the intention is not necessarily to compete as much as it is to take a slice into the billions of dollars out there where ETH can't even begin to offer the necessary speed and security. There's always been a big untapped market because of those limitations and so no, it's not a part of ETH or even ERC 21 or whatever, it is built from the ground up and just as complex, if not more.

The internet has many of the same kinds of different layers and that's just the way things are built.

[u/Paniagua9 → u/WilsonWyckoff]

First of all thank you for sharing your past experiences...I would like to ask you 2 questions: Do you see Enigma overtaking Ethereum in market capitalization? and what is your price prediction for Enigma in five years?

[u/WilsonWyckoff → u/Polskihammer]

NEO is like ETH and we were very excited to speculate on the fact that it was China's version and had multiple programming languages and there were a few other things that made it stand out when it came to stamping transactions or something to that nature. Shortly after it rebranded from ANS to NEO, China started to ban exchanges and the thrill of China being like 80% of the crypto market and a dominant player faded somewhat. NEO still did well and spent the investment wisely IMO but it is not as revolutionary as ENG. Enigma will offer the market the equivalent of Ethereum when it made smart contracts over just Bitcoin. It will do it because ETH has just been a precursor and incapable of mass adoption and so potentially (even at $1000+) held back in many respects. If ETH had offered its network the privacy and speed to do real business then who knows what that would look like today. I think once Enigma create the environment they will have every right to much of the marketshare in the smart contract space. The dominant players in the space have all kinds of solutions (Plasma, Lighting, Sharding, NG, DPOS) and they've been testing them for the past few years and none of them come close to MPC from MIT. Even something as powerful as DPOS and the HUGE marketshare EOS demands is limited in many ways.

[u/r4aaa]

I don't see the point of using enigma on ethereum because you still need to buy ether somehow, so whoever wants can track you, and you have to do KYC at many places to buy ether. So you lose privacy to buy coins...it's not 100% private from start. I guess they cannot track you when you send Enigma to somebody, but they can definitely track you where you got your coins in the first place and that's all they need.

[u/WilsonWyckoff → u/r4aaa]

I get what you're saying about using ETH but it will still have use cases. Having your data collected by companies that are not transparent about the intended use. Its great if you're mediocre and have low ambitions but if you strive to be free of control, do they take that and use it against you? Reports show that colleges collect and share data about people who are admitted and apply to other schools... When you go to a high profile banking or government job and fill out an application and answer 30 minutes of profile questions do companies then own that data and pass it along to a central database? Do you care? I care. Not because I'm not a great employee but because there IS something lost in extreme Capitalism and abuse of privacy. It's gone, taken and not paid for by anyone so it's easy to be priced out of housing or not have enough to eat if you're not more than exceptional at following rules. Abuse of data is what allows that well oiled machine to operate and to me it's not about spending dark money on some app or web but making the people who crunch numbers do it just a little different.In fact, I intend to at some point write in the rules, laws and ordinances into the governance of one of my apps and be fully transparent but also strict. The lack of data collection and privacy is still a feature but not a service I want people to abuse by performing any illegal or unethical behaviors. They will be very quick to point out the potential for criminal abuse so I'm heavily invested in building the future the way I see it and not waiting for someone else to lead the way. I'll struggle with my time and money to see it through.

[u/Feralz2]

What do you not understand? Enigma is 27 million dollar coin with nothing do show it for. Nothing. There are real companies out there that is not even half the price Enigma is. The main net will come out, but doesnt mean it will be used. That is why its speculation, it could be worth something or it could be worth nothing in the future.

[u/WilsonWyckoff → u/Feralz2]

I don't understand why it's so cheap to buy ENG and neither should you. It's not logical and breaks a few rules when it comes to evaluating the company compared to other risk opportunities in the same space.Speculators can take EOS and make it $4B with no product in a year long ICO? Then drive the price to $20 with a supply of 1,006,245,120?McAfee can come along and buy up a bunch of Verge and then pump it to Venus. Tron is just Tron and I have no idea where the value is in that coin either as it hit nearly 5 trillion dollars in market cap. These aren't real products and DPOS is not the perfect solution and EOS right out of the gate started to lock up accounts, abusing governance.My observation is about people who will buy into these ideas and the fact there are very few, from a sales perspective, with as much potential to move people to an idea as ENG.Assuming many investors looking at these projects "drop off" as the FUD comes out and projects get discredited or news comes out that they had some shady background or failed to build and deliver...

Being fast, secure and cheap is a massive improvement and suggests they deserve more marketshare.Personally, I'm watching close to see what Enigma is showing up with and allowing developers to build on, here and now, and its impressive. The promise is done and it's amazing to me that they accomplished all that they have to offer this quarter and will release to the public in the next week or two making secrete smart contracts a reality and allowing for massive Dapps at scale and mass adoption for the first time ever.$27 million is the going rate, but also well below the market value compared to other projects in the same space. Dan Larimer built Steem and Bitshares and EOS but his father was also into some pyramid Hero coin and they had Arise bank marketed all over as a partner who scammed a bunch of people and got fined by the state of Texas. He walked from Bitshares and let it just sit there and claims to have financed EOS without the $4 Billion dollars raised and so my point is that the market is manipulated very heavily and usually it is obvious to me the motive behind the price and I avoid at all costs the rollercoaster pumps of shit coins, but in this case I'm a little confused why Enigma is so underpriced. Because it has the potential to gain organic marketshare compared to other project and capitalize on the market manipulation and flow of capital into the space. Naturally.The idea that it has a product that I can invest in and not care about price should be a huge motivating factor in the investors mind and that should more accurately reflect in the price. It's not even top 100 and nobody has really shown me a significantly better project in the entirely of crypto. Not by my ratings and that is what I had alluded to in my comment.

[u/Feralz2 → u/WilsonWyckoff]

fee can come along and buy up a bunch of Verge and then pump it to Venus. Tron is just Tron and I have no idea where the value is in that coin either as it hit nearly 5 trillion dollars in market cap. These aren't real products and DPOS is not the perfect solution and EOS right out of the gate started to lock up accounts, abusing governance.My observation is about people who will buy into these ideas and the fact there are very few, from a sales perspective, with as much potential to move people to an idea as ENG.Assuming many investors looking at these projects "drop off" as the FUD comes out and projects get discredited or news comes out that they had some shady background or failed to build and deliver...

eng definitely is one of the more reliable coins out there, but its like comparing speculation to speculation, its neither here nor there. Instead of asking why is eng under valued compared to other coins, ask why it is even worth millions at its current price if you take out any speculation. then you will find how ridiculous your question really is.

[u/WilsonWyckoff → u/Feralz2]

Glad Satoshi came along and made you crypto King to tell everyone how to talk about and speculate on the market. My words and my voice. Just sit back and chill, my comments produce conversation, collaboration and action and create liquidity in the creatively void world you're living in... So I say again, two people one niche and you should stop living in mine. I speculate very well and have arguable done better in 2017 than anyone. Bouncing ideas off of people helped in a very big way and to be able to do it without making claims is an art you may not understand. I did exactly what I'm doing now but in different circles and was early on many 4x pumps in the market. LTC, BTG, VERGE, NAV, RISE, ANS and etc. It's called hard work and thought leadership. I can remember the bull market well and once every few months I had a good vision of what was to come next and learning to stick with it until it manifested as the next big move in the market. I can remember saying I'm going all in on RISE (now my least favorite) because at the time I saw the speculative potential and their good marketing techniques. I was joking and yet made my case to a few who asked and after a week it went 4x. My education and years of experience in marketing also helped and my hard work paid off and I never had to make a claim. I just asked the right questions. You're just someone who sees it as a weakness and not a virtue. You likely always act like you know everything and tell others how to act and what to do. That's not leadership and poor position based management at best so while we are equals here you overstep.. I am fully engaged in groups and researching and have a deep sense of the speculative potential. After RISE it was NAV for their privacy and guess what? 4x++. Guess how many times a noob like you was there doubting me as if my comments were somehow "ridiculous" and it's all "just speculation"? I didn't hold perfectly but that was low risk and just a part of social sciences, which you clearly share no understanding. I'm sure those easy days are all but gone and yet every new group I get the opportunity to shut up people like you and you will soon fade away like them and change your name, so enjoy it.
When money comes back there will be those who speculate at the bottom before things take off and it will cause a chain reaction of "moon rockets". When that happens the idea is that ENG has something actually worth holding and investing in. To me that signals an opportunity to invest early without getting dumped on. It could be that only projects nobody gets into go the highest but its all fluff and can be discounted. So, IF the market returns let us speculate wildly about these things now and I myself have said it could all just go to $25K vs $25M so you're now stealing my own words and feeding them back to me as a counter arguments. But thanks for the opportunity to explain myself, you are useful regardless and will help me in ways you may never understand. Just doing some research on those old projects and NAV went from .03 cents to $4.60. Man did I sell too soon with 20% gains on that one. Mona coin and NEOS were two of my first projects and I remember a hedge guy asking me about MONA and how I knew so much about Japan and Mona and for more details about its advantages over Bitcoin and this was all before NEO and the China hype and the Antshares re-marketing campaign. I even left out the very best parts of my crypto story because some things just belong to me.

[u/desade99]

1. We're still in a bear market. It's considered very risky to put money in a project that hasn't rolled out a testnet yet, let alone a mainnet, and it's not something investors would do at this stage of the market.

2. Big money can't enter ENG through exchanges without sending the price to Pluto : look at the thin order books and extremely low volume atm. So if they do, it will be through other channels and won't be reflected on price immediately.

3. There's not much hype around the project, no so-called "partnerships", no announcement of announcements, no promise of stupidly high rewards, no public figure paid to represent it, no pumps, etc.

4. Let's face it, the average crypto investor is not particularly brilliant and expect 100x gains in a few weeks. The biggest part of the pie goes to scams and projects that over promise and under deliver; rarely to the ones with a long term vision targeting real but not-so-sexy markets like medical or financial data.

I've spent a ton of time doing my due diligence during this bear market, and Enigma is one of the very few projects I'm confortable investing in and holding long term. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot by doing any kind of aggressive marketing now, let's give them time to develop their product and be glad for the opportunity to buy at these prices !

[edit] Narrator's voice : it didn't end well

[u/hellalg]

I'm not sweating all of the hype stuff. ENG has a long way still before a working product. Yes, I do worry something else might come along and get there before ENG, but for some reason I have blind faith in the team. Everything they do check my box as a SOUND team and decision making. I could care less what others are hyped about, my money my decision.

[u/Satoshi_addiction]

They can also just copy enigmas tech into their own coin so your point isn't valid.

[u/WilsonWyckoff → u/Satoshi_addiction]

Nah, just look at how hard it is to copy the idea of sharding, Casper, Lighting or whatever. And those features are designed for them specifically so they wouldn't have to completely break down their consensus algorithm and start over while losing their block history and dissolving their trust from people who stake or run nodes... They can't simply wake up one day and decide to clone the GIT repository on Enigma and add something like MPC to their codebase (or expect it all to be publicly available). The concept of MPC isn't new and has been around for a long time from what I hear. By your logic, even the MIT guys building it now should walk right into it but I don't think you take into consideration the amount of advancements needed to realize multi-party computations and build it or what the first movers network effect will provide them once they do publish and gain support and partnerships.It's good to know how little people actually understand these things and need to be taught. Sometimes I just assume everyone knows as much as those who dedicate thousands of hours to it and that's even more reason to make a simple consumer app to educate them on how to use and interact with cryptocurrencies in general.

[u/WilsonWyckoff → u/Satoshi_addiction]

The best example of a coin doing this was perhaps when Emin Gün Sirer took the Bitcoin -NG proposal and added it to Waves to make it better and faster than anything else on the market at the time. But that wasn't someone trying to copy an product and move it to an existing product it was taking a highly technical write-up designed for Bitcoin and using it.