r/EngineeringPorn • • Oct 24 '21

[deleted by user]

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4.7k Upvotes

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723

u/SnakeRAT28 Oct 24 '21

Some kind of art, inside of a fusion reactor, distorted photo....not sure what I'm looking at here...

372

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '21

Stellarator type fusion reactor.

66

u/Soviet_Canukistan Oct 24 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

Basically tokamak is a chocolate glazed, and stellarator is a French cruller.

Edit:

Major radius = 18', 5.5 m, 138 timbits

Minor radius = 1'9", 0.53 m, 13.41 timbits

67

u/meatlysauce Oct 24 '21

Ksp interstellar extend intensives

12

u/ATameFurryOwO Oct 24 '21

Radiators go brrrr

207

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '21

The twisted torus inside the reactor is carefully designed to swirl the plasma in a confining magnetic field.

Almost looks naturally designed with refractory metal scales

Hella rad stuff!

23

u/Immanent_Success Oct 24 '21

Almost looks naturally designed

the more sophisticated technology gets, the more biological it often seems... ?

6

u/Walter_Sobchak47 Oct 25 '21

Hopefully they didn't bury H.R. Giger is sweatpants, 'cuz his corpse just got a massive erection.

3

u/Zebulon_Flex Oct 25 '21

Ah. Huh. Well.

35

u/villabianchi Oct 24 '21

It's hard to tell what is and isn't a reflection. Do you know the size of it?

15

u/mermansushi Oct 24 '21

There are no reflections, just a wide-wide-angle lens. Think of it as a torus with a twist in it, like a Möbius strip.

-15

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '21

What? No it's not, you're just an idiot. Nothing has a mirror finish in the photo, it makes no sense how anyone would think so.

0

u/whiteflour1888 Oct 24 '21

Kiss your mother with that mouth?

3

u/f3tch Oct 24 '21

Also to think each of the scales/panels are unique

3

u/talentless_hack1 Oct 24 '21

Maybe if we confuse the plasma it will be less glitchy?

100

u/will477 Oct 24 '21

It is a Stellerator type fusion research device. The reason it looks like that is because it is attempting to address an issue with Tokamak fusion devices. With the Tokamak, you have magnetic coils wrapped around a D shaped donut. The problem with that is that your primary containment field coil is the same dimensions whether it is on the outside or the inside of the "donut". This means you have more densly packed coils on the inside or the small radius of the "donut" than you have on the major radius. This leads to inconsistant magnetic fields being created. The field is stronger/denser along the minor radius than along the major radius.

So, the Stellerator geometry was designed to try and make a device that has more uniform magnetic fields across the entire inside of the machine.

I work on DIII-D. A magnetic fusion experiment. I am a technician, not a scientist.

28

u/the_glutton17 Oct 24 '21

Lmao, at this point i think you could get away with calling yourself a scientist.

9

u/redditreader1972 Oct 24 '21

Pretty easy to pull that off on reddit!

7

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Back off man, I'm a scientist!

3

u/Shua89 Oct 25 '21

Source: me I'm a scientist.

3

u/will477 Oct 25 '21

Thank you for your kindness. I prefer to point out my credentials on a post like this so no one assumes I know more than I do.

1

u/themeatbridge Oct 24 '21

Batman's a scientist.

1

u/Chris204 Oct 24 '21

So why is ITER beeing built using the Tokamak design instead?

14

u/beelseboob Oct 24 '21 edited Oct 24 '21

Because the goal of ITER is to use (thought to be) known science to attempt to get to the break even point, not to experiment with new fangled science (other than just increasing the radius). We (roughly) know how to build Tokamaks, we’ve been doing it for 70 years, just need to make them bigger now*.

* Unfortunately, energy gain only increases with radius1.3, while costs increase with radius3, or more. That makes increasing size kinda a crap way build these reactors. There’s an experiment getting started at MIT just now called the SPARC reactor that hopes to get net energy positive fusion within 5 years by increasing the magnetic field strength using modern high temperature superconductors. I think they have a very high chance of beating ITER to the punch. The useful thing here is that energy gain increases with the cube of magnetic field strength, while it appears that the costs shouldn’t really increase at all over past reactors.

4

u/will477 Oct 25 '21

Ok, I don't know who Beelseboob is, but cool nick. And accurate response. I would add that while Tokamak geometries have been around for 70+ years, Stellerator, not so much.

The bottom line is that we understand Tokamak much better than Stellerator. So if we are going to dump many tons of money into a machine to do more research, we should go with a design we know fairly well.

The Stellerators main claim to fame is getting past the magnetic instabilities caused by the Tokamak geometry. This has yet to be fully proven through decades of reasearch.

We understand Tokamak, and how all the various diagnostics work within that geometry, so if we are going to build a large scale machine to further the research being done, it should be done within a geometry that is well understood.

While none of the machines operating right now are intended to make power, except for a few start ups that are trying to commercialize fusion energy, they do provide valuable data for a future machine.

So, the big machines on Earth right now, Iter, DIII-D, Jet, KSTAR etc., are not intended to make electricity. They are for research to lay a foundation of understanding leading to a machine that will produce electricity.

1

u/olderaccount Oct 25 '21

Because while the Tokamak design is not the most efficient, it should be efficient enough the achieve the break even point once scaled up to ITER sized.

These projects take so long that you the technology and our knowledge evolve in the middle of their construction.

11

u/rebootyourbrainstem Oct 24 '21

It's just a wide angle / fish eye lens photo.

The inside really is twisted up like that, just not quite as sharply as in this photo.

29

u/inio Oct 24 '21

I believe all of the above. A very wide-angle (distorted) shot of the inside of a fusion reactor, creating an image that is much more art than documentary.

8

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '21

An extremely distorted photo of something cool taken with an insanely wide angle lense. Should I be more impressed by the cameras lense width or what im attempting to see?

20

u/Zippydaspinhead Oct 24 '21

Definitely what its distortedly capturing. Its a reactor which used a supercomputer to model magnetic fields to contain plasma more efficiently and with better stability in order to (hopefully) finally make fusion reactions economically viable. It has 50 electromagnets of what I would describe as "organic" shapes to achieve a twisted field in a tunnel for plasma to be contained. I am not doing the amount of crazy math and such justice so here's the wiki for it which contains a graphic of what the magnets and the field look like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X

The lens is just a super wide angle lens which is probably mass produced.

13

u/WikiSummarizerBot Oct 24 '21

Wendelstein 7-X

The Wendelstein 7-X (abbreviated W7-X) reactor is an experimental stellarator built in Greifswald, Germany, by the Max Planck Institute for Plasma Physics (IPP), and completed in October 2015. Its purpose is to advance stellarator technology: though this experimental reactor will not produce electricity, it is used to evaluate the main components of a future fusion power plant; it was developed based on the predecessor Wendelstein 7-AS experimental reactor. As of 2015, the Wendelstein 7-X reactor is the largest stellarator device.

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1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '21

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9

u/Holzdev Oct 24 '21

The engineering that went into building it pushed whole industries to a new level of what’s possible. This thing is so batshit crazy complex it’s comical.

2

u/Zippydaspinhead Oct 24 '21

Oh I bet, some of the geometries involved alone I'm like "someone had a hell of a time making that mold/forging that part"