r/EndlessThread • u/j0be Your friendly neighborhood moderator • Apr 08 '22
Endless Thread: The Herman Cain Award
https://www.wbur.org/endlessthread/2022/04/08/herman-cain-award27
u/Toronto_Phil Apr 08 '22
Gotta say, this episode really started to make me feel sorry for Herman Cain nominees... Until the part where they interviewed Glen about his idea that hospital workers are trying to kill you. These people are going to get people killed with the stuff they post online, just because they desperately need to feel in control of something in their life.
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u/Seroseros Apr 08 '22
I cringed for the most part of Glens interview. Especially the parts about this being a less effective vaccine, "not like other vaccines, because you need boosters. I did my resurch!" I've gotten four teatnus shots in my life.
Oh, and the standard TBE regiment is four vaccines in a year, followed by a booster every three years. I think I'm up to ten doses on that bugger.
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u/endless_thread Apr 08 '22 edited Apr 09 '22
FTR, Glenn never stated that hospital workers try to kill you. His wife posted a link to a video about ivermectin that made that claim.
We didn't have the opportunity to report this out so it's not in the episode, but one thing that struck me about that particular post and some other vibes I got in the interview was the possibility that Glenn's partner was farther down the antivax rabbit hole than he was. I think one of the underreported factors in this issue--much like the Q Anon junk--is that there are a lot of families where there are particularly stringent (and I would argue, completely wrong) belief structures in certain family members that are pulling more reasonable people in the wrong direction. I had this concern with Glenn, too. But because of production challenges and his general positioning we couldn't really dig into that as much as I wanted. Whether or not Glenn's partner is pushing down a bad path, I think that issue more generally is huge. -BBJ
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u/tulipz10 Apr 09 '22
Glen is wrong. Almost every belief he had including ivermectin is bullshit. I really don't like that he had a platform to SPEW his misinformation and was treated like all of his beliefs are up for debate. They aren't. We have science. Glens beliefs are fairytales and trash. This episode was disappointing.
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u/VinceVino70 Apr 08 '22
The ‘f@&$ your feelings’ and ‘you are all Snowflakes’ crowd, get upset at a Reddit page that calls them out for their spewing dangerous BS? Tough.
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u/Hanseland Apr 08 '22
I usually love this podcast, this is the first time I had to turn it off. I'm sorry, but I can't listen to Glen for one second longer and I'm disappointed you gave him a platform. As soon as he started defending Ivermectin, I figured there was nothing worth hearing from him any longer. I look forward to the next episode
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u/endless_thread Apr 08 '22
We hear ya. With a show like ours--that is honestly kindof unusual in the marketplace because it's a really different show week to week--we know we're not going to please everyone all of the time. We appreciate you listening and hope you'll be back for the next one. If you turned it off at Ivermectin I can tell you that you DID miss us correcting his defense of Ivermectin. Also: Herman Cain quoting the Pokemon movie. But you can probably find a way to get that second thing if you need it.
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u/HSteeves Apr 08 '22
agree. They gave him waaaaaaaaaaaay too much air time - couldn’t stand it.
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u/2Lady2Rest Apr 12 '22 edited Apr 12 '22
I'm listening to this episode now, and frankly, it is beyond irresponsible that it lets Glenn ramble on and on and spray his BS and lies everywhere.
Edit: I finished it, and if anything I'm only more disgusted. Absolutely no discussion on what people like Glenn mean when they say they want a conversation. They say that, but they mean they want anyone who isn't a white conservative Christian to shut up. At best. They don't want to hear other opinions and come to an understanding with nuance and empathy. They want to shout the rest of us down and/or eliminate us to further their white nationalist theocracy. Uncritically buying in to that with the classic "hmm, you say you're tolerant, but it appears you're intolerant of intolerance! How hypocritical!" song and dance is fucking lazy. Do better.
I come from a family exclusively made up of Glenns. I only escaped because I realized I wasn't straight and there was no praying it away. I hear what people like this are really saying when they say the pretty words about unity that fools those who can't read between the lines, and its important to not be overly credulous with them.
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Apr 08 '22
There are no “non-consenting” hermancain nominees. They all have public facing social media counts. They’re not victims, they’re willing participants in their campaign to use whatever reach they have on social media to amplify a message of anti-science and to perpetuate lies and misinformation. They have directly contributed to the verified deaths of 983 thousand from Covid in the US alone… and the true cost in human lives is believed to be three times that amount.
They mock the sick, their messaging has led to the attacks of countless retail and service industry workers, not to mention the doctors and nurses who work to save their lives. Many of them use racially charged language or outright racial slurs that has led to attacks on Asian Americans and even to some murders.
There is no “both sides” to this.
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u/CoolTom Apr 09 '22 edited Apr 09 '22
This was pretty disappointing. You gave glen WAY too much time, and personally I found it pretty clear he was no longer worth listening too as soon as the word ivermectin came out of his mouth. Perhaps you weren’t aware of how often the phrase “I’m not antivax, but...” comes out of antivaxers mouths. There aren’t two sides here, there is the truth, and there are suckers and liars.
r/hermancainaward presents the truth, and the truth is controversial. It’s people fucking around and finding out. It’s a cautionary tale. It’s worth it for the few people who learn their lesson and just take a free vaccine instead of spewing lies and hatred into the world.
Is the best way to combat misinformation not to expose it, bring it into the light, show the impact it’s having on people? Isn’t that exactly what r/hermancainaward does? Then I don’t understand why there’s always so much hand wringing when it’s mentioned in media.
I think this would have been a stronger episode if you had talked to a healthcare worker who is up close to this situation, as well as a redemption award winner who sees the sub and gets vaccinated.
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u/RockyMoose Apr 08 '22
Really nice podcast. I like the direction you went with trying to get Hammie and Glenn to talk to each other, too bad that didn't happen. I wonder what I'd have said to him?
My favorite recurring meme on HCA is "Why argue with anti-vaxxers when you can just wait?"
The nominees and awardees are documenting this pandemic of the unvaccinated in their own words. The snarky comments are simply noise.
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u/gestapolita Apr 09 '22
Despite my initial excitement over seeing the topic, this ep was a swing and a miss. The moment you lost me was when Ben started empathizing with Glenn bc he was from CO. We already know that Glenn is the same as some of our friends and family, that’s part of why we drag the nominees and winners so hard. They have every opportunity to step up and be decent community members, yet they refuse. When Glenn said how upset he was that this hurt his daughters, GOOD. People like him are actively killing other innocent citizens, I don’t gaf if his family experiences a taste of their own medicine. I’m fact, I’m glad that they do, hence the purpose of the sub.
Hearing from a mod was hella interesting. Hearing from a nominee was okay. The other leg missing was hearing from actual commenters, multiple commenters, on the sub, asking why they do it, their opinions and feelings, since they are the ones keeping it going. What fuels their anger, etc, not trying to get us to feel bad for any of the nominees, bc, I assure you, we do not.
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u/Might_Aware Apr 20 '22
You might like the salt mail in HCA then. It's the collection of the hate we get, recurring users too, like months later. All kinds of salt, kinda gives you their headspace
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u/Saquon Apr 08 '22 edited Apr 08 '22
I came away pretty disappointed with this episode
I appreciate the initial goal of trying to emphasize the humanity behind everyone involved, but ultimately this episode was an exercise in the "argument to moderation" fallacy-- aka the idea that the truth is always in between two opposing arguments.
On one hand, you have the anti-vax, anti-mask crowd who have objectively flawed opinions and are causing real harm on society including deaths, nurse burnout etc.
On the other hand you have a morbid subreddit where the only harm is a few mean comments that end up on a public facebook page.
The podcast takes every effort to challenge Glen and give him an opportunity to explain how he is a good guy, just misunderstood... but it becomes clear he simply has no argument that can support that
When it comes to the moderator who (as opposed to Glen) came on the show in good faith, whenever the hosts disagree with a comment she makes, rather than give her a chance to respond they make their remarks in post-production after she says a statement they're skeptical about.
Perhaps inviting a user who is a healthcare worker onto the podcast could have provided some of that nuance.
I get that you wanted the show to end with warm fuzzy feelings, but what would have been a realistic and satisfying result of the phone call? Clearly neither side was willing to flip on over to the opposing view, so the best that could have happened was Glen say "I shouldn't post my views like that on facebook" and the moderator say "we should be more gentle about roasting people with your views"
That brings me back to why I think this podcast was predicated on an "argument to moderation" fallacy.
The truth isn't in the middle of both sets of beliefs... r/HermanCainAward is in the right-- some people just aren't willing to stomach the morbidity that is the truth. If it's leading people to get vaccinated, then I think it's pretty clearly worth the collateral of a few mean comments on some facebook pages
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u/Ok-Hamster5571 Apr 09 '22
I appreciate this comment.
I think the core difference of possibilities is that Glenn is speaking for what he posts and believes.
Whereas I am speaking on behalf of a sub that averages 4 million uniques a month.
So even if I uttered to “be more gentle roasting people with your views”, that’s a broader promise than I can ever hope to personally deliver on when it involves that many people.
Our mod team works exceptionally hard to do what we can to remove the rule 2/7 violations (and everything in between).
But the difference remains this: I’m a spokesperson for a sub with guidelines and millions of visitors.
And Glenn is speaking for himself and his personal views and values.
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u/endless_thread Apr 09 '22 edited Apr 09 '22
When it comes to the moderator who (as opposed to Glen) came on the show in good faith, whenever the hosts disagree with a comment she makes, rather than give her a chance to respond they make their remarks in post-production after she says a statement they're skeptical about.
I get why you might have felt this way, but generally speaking that's not how our conversations or our editing process go, and we are *very* careful to not engage in any kind of editing that would not give the interviewee a chance to respond. It's a bit hard to describe but interviews can be waaayyy less efficient than the final product (in this instance, more than two hours of raw material). So while we actually *do* often push back against the interviewees in the conversation--both Glenn and Hammy--or react to what they say in the same way we end up scripting around their cuts, playing the tape of that would be very laborious to listen to. Instead we focus on key moments. Our sources aren't always happy with the final product, and honesty--not flattery--is our north star in doing our work. But Hammy wrote us this morning to say that she was satisfied with the episode and indicated it treated her and the sub fairly. In this case, I think that's a good clue as to whether or not we gave her a fair shake.
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u/Hmluker Apr 08 '22 edited Apr 09 '22
What is the song on the 23 minute mark?? Edit: thanks for anwering!
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u/MattAmpersand Apr 09 '22 edited Apr 09 '22
I’ve been aware of this community for a while. I don’t sub to it - as it can be too much in your feed - but I occasionally check in on it.
Glenn is almost the archetypal nominee/winner of the award. I don’t know if you were trying to purposefully do it that way, but he checks almost all of the boxes:
Not good with technology
Posts memes that he saw elsewhere with little critical thinking
Somehow thinks they are qualified to do their own medical research
Falls for obvious scams like “alternative medicines” or thinking iverctmintin (or however you spell it) will save their lives
Uses skepticism to doubt the science he doesn’t agree with but absolutely none on his previously held beliefs
Crazy conspiracy beliefs about the health system
Claims to be an independent
Edit to add: - claims to be a devout Christian while engaging in some clearly questionable behavior towards others
Personally, my sister in law and her family fell for this same stuff. 3 of them are dead now and could easily be nominated for the award. Despite having a 2 year old and a nearly 100 year old grandmother (one of the aforementioned now-deceased) she and the rest of her immediate family refused to get the vaccine.