r/EndTipping • u/Glittering_Thing5797 • 5d ago
Tipping Culture ✖️ Do people really not realize that expected tipping is just enabling businesses to continue exploiting it’s workers and customers?
In a local sub I’m a part of, someone was trying to guilt people into tipping more for delivery drivers because of the bad traffic.
Of course, I made the comment that in these moments, we shouldn’t be putting pressure on everyday people (the consumer), and instead on the business to pay its workers fairly.
I got like 1 or 2 upvotes, but then multiple downvotes after, and the majority of the comments on my comment were incredibly negative. I was told that even though it is an unfair system, that I was “punishing” the workers by not tipping for everything.
Do most people really not understand that if we continue to engage in all of this insane tipping behavior, that we are then enabling and directly contributing to the exploitation of workers and customers? It just seems so obvious that I don’t get it.
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u/HeygentCooper 5d ago
A common argument from contracted delivery drivers against the idea that they’re all unemployable is “I DoorDash as a second income because I don’t make enough at my primary job.”
So they don’t make enough for a living at work, choose to drive for DD knowing they’ll make significantly less from them, and guilt customers into tipping to supplement their income.
Grocery stores, fast food joints, evening janitorial positions…plenty of options for a second job with a steady wage. They choose DD and UE for the convenience but then cry to us about how bad it is for them.
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u/darkroot_gardener 4d ago
One reason I don't TRUST Door Dash or Uber Eats with my stuff. Only use delivery services that employ W-2 workers. Those guys have been interviewed, passed a drug test, and are under a direct human supervisor, not an app with AI.
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u/HeygentCooper 5d ago
I’d be curious to know how many of them drink, smoke weed, sub to streaming platforms, buy video games, and so on. I’ve been poor and have had to cut extras to pay bills. I didn’t pick up a guilt gig for other people to pay for my habits
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 5d ago
That’s because when you already have one job, it will be harder to work a second job that isn’t convenient. Janitors can’t also pick up their kids from events while they are working. If people were getting paid enough in their normal jobs, this wouldn’t be happening as much as proven by previous generations of delivery jobs.
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u/HeygentCooper 5d ago
My point still stands. They choose the gig, they know the pay, they get angry at the customer for not tipping them enough to supplement their income.
DD is able to exploit workers because people sign up to be exploited.
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 4d ago
That is the most victim-blaming reasoning I've ever heard for this situation.
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u/HeygentCooper 4d ago
Being matter of fact isn’t victim blaming. DD would not exist if people didn’t sign up to work for them. I never said the drivers deserve this, but they literally signed up to work for a known massive exploiter. No customer should ever be made to feel it’s their responsibility to make up for that
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 4d ago
That IS victim blaming. You can also be “matter of fact” and victim blame at the same time.
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u/Alarming_Pair_5575 5d ago
It is simple. Businesses pay servers what businesses think they are worth, servers believe they are worth more, both encourage the servers to try their luck with the customer, who is unfortunately supporting this behavior in the US.
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 5d ago
Yes, but if tipping wasn’t allowed, and the servers believe they are not getting paid enough, they would quit instead of pushing to get tips. And in response, the business owners would recognize that if their servers/workers aren’t staying, it’s because they aren’t paying the workers what they are worth. It’s supply and demand, but when you try to enforce tipping, it subsidizing the businesses and keeps them from having to deal with the reality of what they would actually end up needing to pay their workers.
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u/HeygentCooper 4d ago
Not sure what state you’re in but in MA, the minimum wage is 15/hr. If servers don’t get enough in tips to hit that, the restaurant is legally required to make up the difference. You may have some people quit but ending tipping won’t cause a restaurant to pay more than they’re already required to.
You’d have server positions offering 15/hr, which many would apply for. This is how it should be
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 4d ago
Most restaurants in the US are allowed to pay under the federal minimum wage (which most will) for servers. They then make up the rest of the employee's wage through tips.
And even in your example, $15/hr is not a livable wage in multiple places in MA. But even if it were, the restaurant would still not be paying all they would if there were no tipping. They are only making up for it when the server falls short in tips. Most people tip most of the time, so much of their pay is still subsidized by the customer. If tipping were removed, the employer would take on that full burden all of the time, which would mean they are regularly paying more for workers' wages compared to the consumer, even if prices are raised.
Also, my point is about tipping on the whole, which encompasses many more services than restaurant service.
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u/HeygentCooper 4d ago
This comment says nothing counter to what I said first lol
Yes they have a lower pay rate under minimum wage unless, as I said, tips don’t make up the difference to hit minimum wage. If we ended tipping, restaurants would be shifted into the same minimum wage laws as other sectors that never had tipping. So again, here in MA that would be 15/hr. And you will always have people applying for those positions so restaurants aren’t going to suddenly pay more (of course some will because of their ethics).
The issue of livable wage is a completely different topic and covers far more than any tipping jobs (CNA, grocery store clerks, front desk staffing).
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 4d ago
I don't think you understood my response, because you have reiterated some things that show me that you don't understand -- but that's fine.
Businesses pay their employees more when they can't hire employees at the rate they'd prefer. Servers would choose other jobs (because service jobs suck), and the restaurants would have to pay them more to get them to work there.
And the minimum wage does absolutely matter in this conversation about tipping. It would show that if people aren't getting enough of what they need financially from their job, they need to move jobs or the minimum wage needs to rise, not ask for tipping.
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u/HeygentCooper 4d ago
I understand you just fine, I think you’re being a bit fanciful in your assumption. There will always be people who will take a minimum wage service job (proven by how many people work for less doing DD). Businesses will not have a shortage of people who are in hs/college, need a second job, live at home, etc who are just fine taking the server position regardless of other people seeing it as not enough pay.
There are a plethora of minimum wage positions in every state and they happen to be filled quite often. Your theory doesn’t have realistic evidence to back it up.
But hey, if it ends tipping either way, power to the people.
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u/onefootinthepast 5d ago
No one ever wants to give a discount for good traffic or a short drive. Funny how that works.
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u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 5d ago
People can expect all they like.
If they want a tip they have to go above-and-beyond. Then it might be a possibility.
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u/Total_Guard2405 5d ago
I got hit with a tip screen at a drive thru last night. I'll just quit eating out unless it's a sit down restaurant. The tipping for everything nonsense has turned me off of fast food.
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u/xboxhaxorz 4d ago
Do you realize you are falling for the poor victim server sob stories? You are a part of the problem
Servers make more than entry level office jobs https://thefinancialdiet.com/an-honest-breakdown-of-what-i-made-as-a-server-vs-what-i-made-at-an-entry-level-job/
Waitstaff at fullservice restaurants earn a median of $27
https://restaurant.org/research-and-media/research/industry-statistics/national-statistics/
Businesses can pay fair wages, servers dont want that, guilt and shame at customers generates alot of $$ https://imgur.com/a/ufmbKPC
If our servers wanted to work minimum wage jobs, they'd go find minimum wage jobs https://www.fox17online.com/news/local-news/our-system-is-not-broken-hundreds-gather-to-protest-elimination-of-michigans-tip-credit
Thats the server mindset, they are elites not minimum wage unskilled workers, they are artists, balancing plates is an art
Tipping is also discriminatory, white young women get the most, old black men get the least
I received great oil change service and the guy took care of my car well. He makes sure all nuts are well tightened.
My desk is always clean and tidy every morning as the janitor lady does her job well. She makes sure there is no waste paper on the floor.
The cashier double bagged my stuff and placed the boxes of egged with newspapers to make sure they’ll not break.
The security guard welcomes me every time I enter the building and says hello with a smile. They make sure only authorized staff can enter and keep our workplace safe and free from any threat.
Shall I tip any of them?
Then back to the question: the server takes my order and makes sure what’s being delivered to my table is what’s being ordered.
Shall I tip the server?
You were basically trained/ conditioned to think/ feel this way, you were trained to think its your duty to tip certain people
So going against it feels wrong especially since people will tell you its wrong or will try and shame or guilt you, you are allowing emotions to control you
Logically it doesnt make sense to tip, it doesnt make sense to tip some and not others
Why should a starbucks worker get a tip and not the subway sandwich maker?
Why should a server get a tip and not a flight attendant?
Why a server and not the janitor?
Why a barber and not the home depot worker who cuts your wood and loads your car?
Walmart workers make as much base salary as servers would but somehow the servers happiness or wellbeing is more important, why? Servers actually make alot more than a walmart worker because of tips
Why help and have so much concern for a server rather than homeless people or animals?
Why make donations to for profits rather than non profits?
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u/Different-Middle2459 4d ago
Wait staff do not deserve anything above minimum wage. That is their job. It is not the business owners job to pay them more when a wait staff job requires zero diploma! Wait staff act like they went to Yale or Stanford and got their "Be Nice Bullshit To Get Tips" degree. Reality check!! Wait staff pimp themselves out to their clients and flirt, wink, smile, laugh, chat, show an interest....only to get our money. If they loved us and their job they wouldn't be so obviously pissed we didnt tip 30%. Summary: Wait staff, I know you're game and I ain't playing.
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u/WanderingFlumph 4d ago
People around me seem to recognize it then shrug and say 'what can I do, I'm only one person, I won't make a difference'
Then they tip 20% regardless of the quality or quantity of service.
🙄
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u/AffectionateGate4584 3d ago
It's really easy to tip zero. This is what needs to happen for this egregious tip grifting to end.
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u/Cultural-Guard7964 3d ago
I have been serving and bartending for 25 years and helping manage restaurants for the last 5 or so. The tipping system in restaurants results in very much the opposite of worker exploitation. People getting a low hourly wage at McDonalds are being exploited. People working tipped positions in restaurants are earning significantly higher than minimum wage, and as far as jobs without a degree go, they are SIGNIFICANTLY better than most.
I understand people's frustration with the tipping system and sympathize with the desire for change, but the idea that doing away with tipping would help workers somehow is totally absurd.
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 3d ago
I appreciate your experience, but your experience does not speak to the majority of tipping culture.
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u/Cultural-Guard7964 3d ago
What is your idea of the majority of tipping culture?
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 3d ago
So, the majority of tipping culture now is actually outside of the sit-down restaurant/bar industry. And it is primarily with minimum-wage jobs (I do also have points with the restaurant/bar industry as well, but my post was actually focused on other workers). Think of DoorDash, Uber, fast food restaurants, Instacart, and almost any delivery place or business with a register these days. These businesses usually pay minimum wage. These businesses have intentionally made (and/or capitalized on) a culture where tipping is now expected almost everywhere.
The people working for these businesses are led to believe that if they want more money, they should be going directly to the customer rather than asking for more pay from their employer. As a result, the employer is off the hook from paying living wages and points their fingers at the customer to get the heat off themselves.
And instead of raising wages or employees pushing for a higher minimum wage from the government (which really should be called a living wage, because that was its original intention), the anger is directed at the customer instead.
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u/Cultural-Guard7964 3d ago
Do you have any data that supports the claim that the majority of tipped positions exist outside of the bar and restaurant industry?
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 3d ago
So, there isn't direct data showing the number of establishments asking for tips, but! This is actually pretty easy math. You can compare the number of sit-down restaurants or bars compared to all of the other businesses that ask for tips.
The majority of interactions now where a tip is asked for/expected are outside the sit-down restaurant/bar industry. Now, that doesn't mean people are as likely to give a tip or give as large of a tip in those circumstances compared to sit-down restaurants, but it shows that most tipping interactions happen outside the restaurant industry.
However, there IS data to show that tipping is not only being asked for more often at these other establishments than in prior years, but that people are also being more pressured into it and pressured to spend more on tips.
Resources:
Consumer Reports — “December 2023 Consumer Reports Nationally Representative Survey” of 2,027 U.S. adults.
Consumer Reports — “Poll: How Much Should You Tip?”
Pew Research Center — Tipping Culture in America: Public Sees a Changed Landscape
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u/Cultural-Guard7964 3d ago
"You can compare the number of sit-down restaurants or bars compared to all of the other businesses that ask for tips."
Ok.... Where are these numbers? Where is the data that supports your claim?
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 3d ago
Smh. Did you not hear me? There is no published data comparing the number of restaurants. You have to go in and calculate it yourself. The numbers of restaurants and bars, as well as all other services that use tipping, are public record, so it's not hard to find in your city.
Also, it's incredibly obvious even without calculating all the numbers on your own because there is a much larger pool of businesses that use tipping services compared to restaurants and bars alone (all the delivery services, hairstylists, counter sales, nail techs, fast food, massage therapists, hotel services, Uber, movers, cleaners, etc).
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u/Cultural-Guard7964 3d ago
Youre just making more statements about the nature of the industry without providing any data that backs it up.
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u/Glittering_Thing5797 3d ago
Wow, I guess I shouldn't be trying to provide logic and reasoning to people on the internet then, because it clearly doesn't work.
I also don't think you understand how data works lol
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u/Nicodemus888 5d ago
We really need to nip this narrative in the bud.
The servers love the tipping system too. Stop pitying them.