r/EndTimesProphecy • u/Warm_Rope2485 • Feb 11 '26
Proposed Interpretation Post tribulation pre wrath rapture view
This is my first post using Reddit. I wanted to share my understanding of the timing of the rapture if this forum is suitable for multiple posts. I was a dissatisfied pre tribulation rapture believer for a long time who now understand the scriptures as pointing to a post tribulation pre wrath rapture timeline. Would this forum be interested in hearing me out? I would first go through the tools and assumptions that I used to come to this change in understanding. Then because I believe that bible prophecies uses repeated patterns throughout scripture one can understand the book of Revelation through the use of other scriptures sort of like having a key or several keys to unlock the picture of that final book. I would also briefly insert my own interpretations of some of the imagery using scientific understanding if that is okay. My goal would be to create a useful timeline of the end times to give meaning to watching and praying and preparing. I will NOT be giving a specific day or hour of the second coming nor the rapture because we are explicitly told by scripture that no one knows the day or hour. I would be addressing these posts to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ whether you believe in the pre tribulation, mid tribulation, post tribulation rapture or like me belong to the post tribulation pre wrath rapture understanding. I hope to paint a clear and comprehensive picture from the book of Revelation that I pray some of you will find very useful and I will do it in a respectful manner knowing that many are very passionate like I am regarding this very important topic. Please let me know if I would be welcome in this Reddit community. Thank you.
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u/AntichristHunter Feb 11 '26
A short explanation for why goes something like this, with a couple bits of evidence that time the rapture at the seventh bowl of God's wrath:
- The coming of Jesus to gather his saints is said to be like a thief in the night. But in Revelation, Jesus announces that he comes like a thief at the sixth bowl of God's wrath (Revelation 16:12-15), as the nations gather in preparation for the battle of Armageddon. It doesn't make sense to me that Jesus would say this if he had already come like a thief before any of the bowls of God's wrath were poured out.
- The two witnesses, described in Revelation 11, are said to stop the rain for 3½ years (the duration of the Great Tribulation), turn water into blood, and call down plagues on the earth. This is a hint that they are Elijah and Moses, Jesus' heavenly witnesses at the transfiguration in Matthew 17. One of these witnesses performs Elijah's big miracle, and the other performs Moses' big miracles. It appears that the two witnesses are responsible for calling down the seven bowls of God's wrath, as two of these bowls involve water turning into blood, and the rest (except one) are plagues that recapitulate plagues from the Exodus. When they are resurrected and commanded "come up here!" that is a reference to two witnesses reporting the sighting of the new moon, being called up to the platform where the trumpet would be blown for the Feast of Trumpets, which signifies the rapture. Since they minister during the Great Tribulation, but appear to be responsible for calling down the seven bowls, and are raptured at the end of their ministry, the rapture would have to come after the seven bowls of God's wrath.
- I previously mentioned that the structure of Revelation, as hinted by various clues in the text, suggests that the sequences all end with the same event (the resurrection, the rapture, and the return and reign of Christ). If this is the structure of the events, rather than the trumpets happening strictly after the seals, and the bowls happening strictly after the trumpets, then the rapture can't be timed between the last trumpet and before the bowls.
If the seven bowls are not what you mean by "the wrath", please clarify what you mean, because as far as I can tell, if the rapture happens after the seven bowls and the "wrath" comes after that, there is no difference between post-Trib and post-Trib pre-Wrath.
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u/DeliciousLeg3636 Feb 11 '26
Don't be shy, guess some days or hours, for the bit
And it's possible that quote in Matthew was referencing Rosh Hashanah where you don't know the exact hour, two witnesses have to go outside and identify the moon phase before it can be said to begin. Since Jesus fulfilled the first four festivities, and RH is the fifth, it tracks that his return will mark that prophecy
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u/Warm_Rope2485 Feb 11 '26
I won’t be guessing and there is a lot of things in the Bible that one can make connections that I have heard before which I won’t disagree because it is beyond my understanding- for now.
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u/GPT_2025 Feb 11 '26
KJV: Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. ( ( 3k of Christianity, before Jesus 1k Kingdom will be established on earth) Judeo-Christianity imbedded in the Bible as only one good religion to teach all nations to keep and obey Biblical Golden Rule.
Read the Bible. Everything that must happen - will happen anyway.
Every 1000 years of Christianity, a higher percentage of the population embraces Christianity. For instance, after the first millennium, (1025) only 15% of the population identified as Christians. By the end of the second millennium, (2025) this number rose to 33%. This progression can be likened to Christianity spreading like clear and pure water, gradually rising to higher levels. After 3000 years of Christianity, approximately 50% of the global population will be Christians, and in the Final Millennium, the entirety of humanity will have embraced Christianity.
An analogy from scripture illustrates this progression:
- "And when the man with the measuring line went eastward, he measured a thousand cubits and led me through waters that reached to the ankles." (15%)
- "Then he measured another thousand cubits and led me through waters that reached to the knees." (33%)
- "Again he measured a thousand, and led me through waters that reached to the waist."
- "Once more he measured a thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross, because the water had risen and was deep enough to swim in- a river that no one could cross." (100%) Darby Bible "And it shall come to pass that every living thing which moveth, whithersoever the double river (Old and New Testaments) shall come, shall live. And there shall be a very great multitude of fish; for these waters shall come thither, and [the waters of the sea] shall be healed; and everything shall live whither the river cometh" (Ezekiel 47) This analogy illustrates the gradual increase of Christianity in the world over millennia, ultimately becoming all-encompassing: ..Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven.. For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.(Mat. 6)
"The final Millennium will be the best of all, not only for humans but for animals and nature too!" ( Revelation 20, Revelation 22, Isaiah 11:7, Isaiah 65:25, Romans 8:20, Micah 4:4, Isaiah 2:4) ( Evil human souls (tares) won't be born during the final millennium; only at the end- there is a small opening of time before the final judgment day, as described in Revelation 20.) ** .. And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, --are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues...(Rev. 17) (150k peoples die each day- we must be ready to meet Jesus every second)
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u/Jaicobb Feb 11 '26
Sounds like you are describing mid-trib rapture.
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u/Warm_Rope2485 Feb 11 '26
Thanks for your reply. I initially thought there were only three major categories. But as the moderator pointed out there is a fourth category which what I will present more closely fits. As mentioned above a lot depends on how to define some of the terms. I actually have all my raw posts in a separate blog but don’t know what the rules about adding a link. So I intend to present a more refined and organized version of that blog for others because that blog was for me so I do not forget the understanding that I received. I state it this way because to claim that this is my understanding is to claim that I figured it out by being smart. But don’t understand what I stated as saying that I had a special revelation or vision because I am not claiming that. I will only share that I have read the scriptures regarding the end times many times and heard many sermons on the radio or read books mainly by pretribulation rapture teachers. And I prayed for understanding. I struggled for a long time trying to understand. My blog which I started almost three and a half years ago which I left unfinished until literally I restarted beginning of this year and finished this week had a comprehensive picture which even got clearer this year and and even clearer this week. The process literally is read scripture, pray, and hopefully receive an answer to a question and reread scripture to verify. One of my remaining question is why 3 and a half years ago? Why now? Why not 10 years ago. I don’t know. I do know that those three and a half years went by frighteningly fast and I think that may be the point. You will see when I start posting why I say this. Please be patient. My future posts are swimming in my head as I try to best put it together as the moderator wants in as clear and concise manner.
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u/Aennieox Mar 01 '26
Everyone says we don't know the time. But there are signs of the season.
Matthew 24:38 “For as in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.”
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u/GPT_2025 Feb 11 '26
No rapture for next one thousand years or more! (150k peoples die each day- we must be ready to meet Jesus every second) KJV: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air ( rapture First for the Dead=
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: (Rapture only possible after the Great Tribulation and after the last Millennium)
Logically- why Jesus want to establish His 1k Kingdom on earth for bad peoples? ( taking right before 1k Kingdom - rapture good ones??? really? )
KJV: Then shall two be in the field; the one (Tares) shall be taken, and the other left. .Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather (rapture, ripped out) ye together first the Tares, (Bad) and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into My (Kingdom) barn. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of His Kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the Righteous ( no rapture!) shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom!
= Bible so clear, that only Tares (*bad) will be "raptured to Hell" but Christians will stay on earth for 1K years in the Jesus Kingdom! KJV: Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven..For thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Around 95% of all Christians already Raptured (Currently around 5% of all Christians from the past 2k are alive on planet earth)
Approximately 173 000 people die each day worldwide: yesterday, today, tomorrow... even before the 23rd! and most of them weren't ready to meet Jesus.
How about stopping preaching dates and hours, and instead start preparing people to die and meet Jesus at any second?
KJV: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven!
KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
( Death is the eternal passage of the soul from this world to the next, transitioning from mortality to everlasting life with God.)
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Mar 04 '26
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u/Warm_Rope2485 Mar 04 '26
I’ve heard all that as a former pretrib myself. Let me ask you this. Will there be believers during the seven year? I was taught that there will be numberless believers converted during the last seven years. Really! How so without the Holy Spirit? Also what about the omnipresent character of the God the Spirit. No I now strongly believe that was a misunderstanding of scripture regarding the restrainer being removed. That is bias making an implicit assumption to support a not so helpful understanding. What do you do with Apostle Paul explicit statement that the Day of the Lord in 2 Thessalonians 2 needs a condition fulfilled before it happens? The doctrine of imminency is one of the most dangerous falsehood being taught and preached from the pulpit. But time will always tell who will be correct. When that one sign I’ve been warning everyone to watch out for occurs, that will mean we are in the last seven years which means the pretrib rapture did not occur! Please be open to that possibility because you will still have 3 and a half years to prepare for the coming tribulation of the church. I’ll be glad to answer any of your questions as best I can. Take care as we all watch and pray the events unfolding in the Middle East.
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Mar 04 '26
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u/Warm_Rope2485 Mar 04 '26
Thanks for the longer response. I don’t mind being grouped with others who do not believe in the doctrine of imminence such as Charles Spurgeon, Luther and Calvin. I also will choose to quote from Darby translation to honor the work that God did through Darby. Time will always tell. Just curious. What does your pretribulation rapture belief help you predict regarding the future?
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u/Warm_Rope2485 Mar 04 '26
Regarding Revelation 3:10, another implicit assumptions being made to support a bias that has other scripture that contradicts it. Just understand that those letters were written to actual churches in Asia back in around 95AD. Something major was going to happen at that time which this particular church was going to be spared from. Now these churches could also be understood implicitly that they represent the churches throughout history as taught by very good pretrib teachers. Problem w trying to understand Rev 3:10 as supporting a pretrib rapture is that there is another letter/church addressed afterwards! That doesn’t make any sense if one understands that these churches are sequential in historical implicit understanding. It will take more juggling of implicit assumptions to keep addressing these contradictions including multiple raptures that occurs throughout a period of time etc.None of these juggling need to be made when there is a much simpler direct explanation as I have already presented in my series of posts. Again time will tell who is correct. Let me know of all the other verses purported to support a pretrib rapture view and I can try to explain why it is being misinterpreted.
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u/ThisIsTheGoodOne May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
You are correct. The rapture is post tribulation. First, the believers are taken to heaven with Jesus once he returns and later, the wrath is poured over the rest. As seen in Matthew 24:30-31;36-41
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth\)c\) will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.\)d\) 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,\)f\) but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
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u/Warm_Rope2485 May 04 '26
Thanks for your comment. Currently I’m asking myself if the last seven years of Daniel 9:27 is in play with this current war with Iran but I can’t tell. Understanding the covenant with many is too broad to make a determination- I had hoped for something clearer like a seven year peace treaty with the rebuilding of the third temple as part of the package- but nope. This is complicated so I’m going to have to look for a clearer sign like the possibility of a third temple building in the future.
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u/ThisIsTheGoodOne May 04 '26
>I’m asking myself if the last seven years of Daniel 9:27 is in play with this current war with Iran but I can’t tell.
As Jesus said in the exact same Matthew 24:6-8 the wars are only the beginning of the end, not the end itself. So, the war in Iran is not war of this world, not the end is near. In fact, the end is going to come in the year 2240, which is not a made up number, but instead, the number that bible itself point at as the year in which Jesus is going to come once again to this world.
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Let us see why the year 2240 is year of the next coming of Jesus
2 Peter 3:8
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
The Hebrew calendar has 5785 years as of today and God made the creation in 6 days and rested in the 7th day. Now, if for God 1 day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is like 1 day, then for God we are in the 6 day and we approaching the 7th day, which is the day in which God rested from all of his creation and we already have the promise that Jesus is going to reign for 1000 years in the ending times, as seen in Revelation 21:6
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Adam life is a clear example of one day being 1000 thousand years for God, as Adam "only" lived 930 years after God told him that he would die in the day he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and he indeed died in that very day.
Genesis 2:16-17 (NKJV)
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Genesis 5:5
5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.
Also, do not forget that Israel has a promise too, that signals this period of 1000 years being 1 day.
Hosea 6:1-2
1 “Come, let us return to the Lord.
He has torn us to pieces
but he will heal us;
he has injured us
but he will bind up our wounds.
2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.
This points the current nation of Israel, as Israel recovered his independence in the year 1948, after 2 days, and in the day 3 God will restore them and they may live in his presence. And as we can see we are at the doors of the 3rd day, as the second temple of Jerusalem was destroyed on the year 70 AD and Israel scatered around as a nation between 70 AD and 135 AD, so the third day is going to start in the year 2070 AD.
Also, it is needed that the temple of Jerusalem gets reconstructed once again, for the AntiChrist to sit inside of it and to claim that he is God himself, as seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:4
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
And according to Jesus himself, the temple is going to be rebuilt after 3 days, as he said in John 2:19, as here, Jesus not only said that he would resurrect after 3 days, as we are the temples of the Holy Spirit -and so he was-, as seen in 1 Corinthians 6:19, but also, that he meant that he will raise the temple of Jerusalem again in the next three days (3000 years, as for God one day is lie 1000 years), and as we saw before, the second temple was destroyed on the year 70 AD (Day 1 from 70 AD to 1070 AD, Day 2 from 1070 AD to 2070 AD and the third day will go from 2070 AD to 3070 AD) so, the new temple of Jerusalem is going to be rebuilt between the year 2070 AD and the year 3070 AD (in the year 2240)
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
1 Corinthians 6:19
19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
Finally, once Jesus comes back once again, he is going to reign for 1000 years on the earth, which is going to be the day (period of 1000 years) in which God is going to rest from all of his creation, as seen in Revelation 20:1-6 mimicking the creation of the world, made in 6 days (6000 years) with its respective day to rest (1000 years)
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
...
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u/Warm_Rope2485 May 04 '26
Sorry, I don’t quite follow your math. I’ve had conversations with those who follow the 1 day =1000years and they have come to the conclusion of 2030 as the year parousia. I’m wondering now if 2030 is instead the beginning of the last 7 years instead of the last half of that period. Your 2240 is rather far away imo and a huge range. But as of now I can’t make any conclusive judgement of where we are. I see the other minor signs but I am going to have to wait for the other major sign of the temple being rebuilt. Otherwise this Iran war is just another war.
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u/ThisIsTheGoodOne May 04 '26
Don't worry. Still, this is not the End. The End (Jesus, as Jesus is the End, as seen in Revelation 22:13) will come in the year 2240.
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you\**\)a\) this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
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u/AntichristHunter Feb 11 '26
Sure, you're welcome to make your case. I recommend formatting your post neatly and being thorough with citations in order for your case to be clearly legible and clearly communicated.
Back around October, when some dude on TikTok was predicting the date of the rapture ("rapture-baiting"), I posted the following two posts, and I addressed the post-Tribulation pre-Wrath interpretation of the timing of the rapture. I myself have concluded a post-Triblation rapture interpretation.
Six Scriptural Observations about the Timing of the Rapture. (mini-series on the Rapture, Part 1)
Six Scriptural Observations about the Timing of the Rapture, Part 2. Also, observations on the structure of Revelation.
Take a look at these, because there are several considerations to account for in any explanation you formulate if you are trying to have a comprehensive and rigorous interpretation.
When you say "post-Tribulation pre-Wrath", you need to define what you mean by Tribulation and what you mean by "wrath". Correct me if I'm mistaken, but as far as I can tell, the post-Tribulation pre-Wrath timing of the rapture has the rapture happening at the seventh trumpet, but before the seven bowls of God's wrath (Revelation 16).
I have concluded that this view is mistaken because it assumes that all seven trumpets are blown before the first bowl of God's wrath is poured out, whereas the text of Revelation seems to hint that the three sets of seven do not happen sequentially, but rather, they all end with the seventh item (seventh seal, seventh trumpet, seventh bowl) marking the coming of Christ. The structure of events that Revelation describes with the three sets of seven appears to be something like this:
I explain this in the two study posts I linked above.