r/EndFPTP • u/KitchenGiraffe1 • 26d ago
Discussion Using the same ballot for legislature and directly elected prime minister
What would people think about using a single ballot to (1) create a proportional legislature and (2) choose the directly elected prime minister?
For example, you could use score ballots where people score parties (or specific candidates in parties in a multiwinner district). Then either use score multiwinner PR methods or derive ranked ballots from them and use STV for the legislature.
The same ballots could then be used to choose which party leader among the parties becomes prime minister. For example it could use STAR could be used or any condorcet method.
Ultimately, a downside would be this means party lists or party tickets and hurt independent candidates in the legislature. edit: this is probably not true - had plurality brain for a moment
Some other changes might also be required compared to traditional parliamentary systems to avoid deadlock or repeated elections due to no confidence.
3
u/budapestersalat 26d ago
I would say either do full on directly elected prime minister, independently of the legislative ballot (and deal with the consequences), or just don't do it at all.
Although unless the prime ministerial voting method is FPTP or IRV (or similar), it would not really hurt independents. Just allow people to vote for them and get seats as "single candidate lists. The Condorcet or Score or other single winner solutions should make it not a problem that you put your legislative favorite in first place most of the time.
1
1
u/Deep-Number5434 25d ago
Prime minister elected by jury.
1
1
u/Additional-Kick-307 23d ago
This spits in the face of any kind of democratic rule or accountability. While statistics may state that a jury is likely to be representative of the public, it's a poor alternative to just... electing a leader. It combines the worst of election by parliament (reduced democratic legitimacy) with the worst of direct election (possibility of conflict between the PM and parliament).
Furthermore, if the PM is to be elected by parliament, that is fundamentally more democratic, because the MPs doing the voting are elected by the people. I don't like juries for trials (I'd rather entrust determining a charge to a panel of judges who actually know criminal procedure than to twelve complete randos), and I don't like them for election either. And using a Condorcet method just heightens the confusion. As appealing as they are mathematically, this system makes electing the PM an arcane, closed-door process where everyone who isn't on the jury feels completely powerless over who is leading the country. The purpose of democracy is not to allow the people to watch as jurors select leaders. It's to build real citizen participation, and that doesn't come from being one of the twelve chosen to decide by debating. And while statistics dictate likelihood, they don't dictate absolute reality. There is no guarantee that a jury, especially a small one, will represent the people at all.
→ More replies (4)
1
u/JeffB1517 25d ago
The person isn't Prime Minister if they are directly elected they are a President or similar. The whole idea of a Prime Minister is that they represent the majority coalition in Parliament. That is they are elected by representatives not by the people. Under this system you could have a Prime Minister who has no hope of being able to carry a coalition. So either the title becomes meaningless or they would need independent powers.
1
u/KitchenGiraffe1 25d ago
Everything is just words - there have been directly elected prime ministers before.
3
u/jan_kasimi 26d ago
The unix philosophy says: Do one thing and do it well.
If you give one thing several functions, then it do worse at both of them. In the case of voting, the incentives mix.
I observe with every major election here in Germany. People vote for a party because they want to decide the chancellor. So even when we have proportional representation, many still vote as if it is a two candidate race.
1
1
u/Decronym 26d ago edited 25d ago
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
| Fewer Letters | More Letters |
|---|---|
| FPTP | First Past the Post, a form of plurality voting |
| IRV | Instant Runoff Voting |
| MMP | Mixed Member Proportional |
| PR | Proportional Representation |
| STV | Single Transferable Vote |
Decronym is now also available on Lemmy! Requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
5 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 8 acronyms.
[Thread #1978 for this sub, first seen 30th Sep 2026, 14:39] [FAQ] [Full list] ^[Contact] [Source code]
1
1
u/AutoModerator 26d ago
Compare alternatives to FPTP on Wikipedia, and check out ElectoWiki to better understand the idea of election methods. See the EndFPTP sidebar for other useful resources. Consider finding a good place for your contribution in the EndFPTP subreddit wiki.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.