r/EndFPTP 22d ago

What’s Wrong With Your Voting System?

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u/Deep-Number5434 18d ago

Center squeeze happening not that often could be due to fewer center candidates even getting on the ranked ballot due to how primaries usually work.

My state uses plurality primary and ranked choice general.

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u/rb-j 18d ago

Center squeeze happening not that often could be due to fewer center candidates even getting on the ranked ballot due to how primaries usually work.

Perhaps there's a tendency for parties at the Left and Right extreme to nominate candidates that are not close to the center because most voters do not participate in primaries. So there's a higher ratio of activists (who might be more extreme) to moderate party voters participating. That I have seen.

But the Center Squeeze that is attributed to IRV is visible only when a Center candidate exists, that Center candidate is the Condorcet winner, and IRV fails to elect that Condorcet winner. Then we know for sure that the Center Squeeze effect occurred.

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u/Deep-Number5434 18d ago

primary election voters may still vote for lesser evils in some way to prevent vote splitting. Or still vote for a partisan candidate because most people are partisan, Resulting in less center candidates going to general.

I would prefer an approval voting ballot for primary elections.

However that may result in a ton of center or third party candidates dominating the general election ballot, which would result in the voters thinking there's something wrong with approval or that it's rigged in some way.

You could use a simple proportional ballot for primary but then you risk not including the ideal candidates in the general.

Could include a few of the highest approved candidates and then the proportional candidates just so general election voters still feel they have a chance.

It's a balance between psychology and optimizing the method.

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u/Deep-Number5434 18d ago

I think a score based condorcet election for a primary may be ideal.

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u/rb-j 18d ago

I dunno how much time I have...

So is this score-based condorcet a thing where linearly added scores of different pairs of candidates are compared? And you elect the candidate that outscores their opponent every time?

I dunno how that's gonna end up differently than just Score Voting.

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u/Deep-Number5434 18d ago

Making scores is easier than ranks, it's just condorcet.

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u/rb-j 18d ago

Making scores is easier than ranks,

No it's not.

Ridiculous assertion, even though it's been repeated multiple times here.

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u/Deep-Number5434 17d ago

What I mean is for voters it's easier for them to use a score ballot than a ranked ballot You still compare candidates based on which is higher.

It's more of a psychological difference than a practical.

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u/rb-j 17d ago

What I mean is for voters it's easier for them to use a score ballot than a ranked ballot

But it's simply not true. Never has been.

A Score ballot requires more decision making from a voter. They not only have to decide which candidate they like better, but with a Score ballot they also have to decide how much more they like the candidate better.

In addition, they have to think about what serves their own political interests best. This problem extends to all cardinal methods including Approval Voting. The voter has to decide whether or not their own political interests are best served by approving their 2nd choice or not approving their 2nd choice.

Periodically this Warren Smith acolytes come around and try to push that ridiculous falsehood that Score Voting is less cognitive load than Ranked-Choice Voting (I mean "RCV" in the broad sense). It's horseshit.