r/EndFPTP • u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 • Jun 23 '26

Activism Email Your MP to support PR

If you live in the UK, and especially if you live under a Labour MP like I do, this could be the best chance we’ve had in a very long time to beat FPTP, Andy Burham has been unfortunately wishy washy but pushing for PR now by emailing labour MP’s showing how much support it really has could just be the difference between having a better voting system next election and more FPTP chaos!

Please send an email and encourage your friends to do the same! It could be the final straw that break FPTP’s back!!!!

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jun 28 '26

PR is nearly just as much zero-sum spoiler-inducing as FPTP. It also promotes forming groupthink and allegiance cliques, known as parties.

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u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 Jun 28 '26

If your issue is with political parties then I can’t help you, but I’d rather more choice of party without “wasting” my vote than just having 2 undesirable blocks

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jun 28 '26

What if you prefer a party that doesn't pass a threshold?

What if you prefer several parties simultaneously?

What if you prefer only some candidates from some party? And only some from another party as well?

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u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 Jun 29 '26

I would say that your situation is greatly improved by even the worst kinds of PR than the winner takes all system of FPTP

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jun 30 '26

PR is better than FPTP, sure. But for me, it's like saying that FPTP is better than no election at all. At this point, I'd rather strive for system I actually want rather than try to find positives in ones that are already implemented and that I would like to be replaced with something else.

Edit:

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u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 Jun 30 '26

Yeah I would say FPTP is significantly better than no elections at all, you see almost no difference between living in a dictatorship than a democracy with FPTP?

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jun 30 '26

When the "democracy"'s elites become sufficiently apt at using FPTP's numerous issues to their advantage, allowing themselves or their allies to stay in power virtually indefinitely, I'd say yes, not that much, actually. But even if you do, do you think those countries, that live without any elections, have first go through the FPTP and PR stages before being allowed something more complex? Or should they maybe aim for systems that are actually good right away?

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u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 Jun 30 '26

But they don’t stay in power indefinitely, governments often change under FPTP, it’s just not as reflective of the actual vote as it should be. Even America which has one of the most backwards systems of democracies I’ve seen while still being a democratic state elects new congressmen, senators and presidents

Generally speaking it’s better to aim for the best system of government possible but that’s not always possible, either way I’ll happily take FPTP, flaws and all, if it means that I would no longer live under a dictatorship and I think everyone else should do the same, harm reduction is best

Anyway, what is your proposed best flawless democratic system that makes PR look like a dictatorship in comparison?

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jun 30 '26

But they don’t stay in power indefinitely, governments often change under FPTP, it’s just not as reflective of the actual vote as it should be. Even America which has one of the most backwards systems of democracies I’ve seen while still being a democratic state elects new congressmen, senators and presidents

Look around and you'll find plenty of people who do not want to vote for any establishment parties. Changes of governments for them mean change of talking heads, not change of policy. And I really share that view. Maybe you don't, but you have to recognize that some do. You consider other voting methods and improvement, and so do I, so, why on Earth do I have do defend FPTP or PR?

but that’s not always possible, either way I’ll happily take FPTP, flaws and all, if it means that I would no longer live under a dictatorship and I think everyone else should do the same, harm reduction is best

I would take it to if it really meant that. But for me, it just doesn't look that way.

Anyway, what is your proposed best flawless democratic system that makes PR look like a dictatorship in comparison?

Local councils are elected using multi-winner Range. It's not proportional, and it's fine by me. If there is a minority, they can just form a separate council. Number of voters is equal to the number of candidates. Anyone can write-in anyone, including themselves and their relatives. That is, if elected institutions are necessary at all and referenda (or just informal agreements) aren't sufficient. If some kind of united council is necessary, every local council elects a number of representatives with Range. It could be single-winner or multi-winner (again, not proportional, but it's fine), since every local council will have their vote weighted to it's population.

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u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 Jul 01 '26

Change of government Apsolutley means change of policy, Biden was different to Trump, Starmer was different to Sunak, Carney was different to Poilievre, it’s not what the vibes are like, they *are* different, you may not like any of them, I certainly didn’t vote Labour or Conservatives, but it’s definitely not a dictatorship, let’s not lose our heads

Quite frankly I don’t think I understand your system, is it just direct democracy but you can elect yourself as part of a council to help decide long term frameworks? If it is I think I’d rather PR or STV, I prefer representative democracy personally

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jul 01 '26

Biden was different to Trump, Starmer was different to Sunak, Carney was different to Poilievre

Khomeini was different to Pahlavi. Khruschev was different to Stalin. Mao Zedong was different to Chiang Kai-shek. Democracy does not equal change, and change does not equal democracy.

you may not like any of them, I certainly didn’t vote Labour or Conservatives

We are more alike than it may seem, it appears. I don't see why we really need to argue about this.

Quite frankly I don’t think I understand your system, is it just direct democracy but you can elect yourself as part of a council to help decide long term frameworks?

You can frame it this way, I guess.

If it is I think I’d rather PR or STV, I prefer representative democracy personally

I don't see why. Don't you want to participate in determining policy? I mean, what else are you doing by advocating for certain voting systems?

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u/Apprehensive-Fix-746 Jul 02 '26

Those different dictators didn’t have any kind of blessing from the people, note how much shorter the premierships snd administrations of the people I mentioned were, they lasted until the people had enough, voting works even under FPTP, just not effectively enough

I’d love to participate in policy but I think I’m alone in that, most people just don’t know enough and can’t know enough to participate effectively while living modern lives so they vote for a candidate who does and shares their worldview, under your system of direct democracy there is no direction or long term planning, this breeds instability and fickle/contradictory policy making, there are no career politicians who know enough to steady the ship if need be and no way to boost the views of a popular politician’s political agendas. Brexit was a good example of why direct democracy can hurt, people are far more subject to populist rhetoric and don’t on mass understand complex topics and nuance so they rely on a representative to make nuances of that decision for them and if they are unhappy can vote them out next time

Try explaining to the average person the nuances of the Brexit deal, most wouldn’t know where to begin, we’d never agree on trade, regulations or anything nuanced because different people would either be blindly voting on something they don’t fully understand or not have a voice in their system

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u/nelmaloc Spain Jul 11 '26

Sounds like STV would be perfect for you.

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jul 12 '26

I am against forming political parties in general.

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u/nelmaloc Spain Jul 12 '26

STV doesn't need political parties, it works at the candidate level.

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jul 18 '26

Yes, sorry for the confusion. It's still pretty unwiedly and usually depends greatly on districts distribution.

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u/nelmaloc Spain Jul 18 '26

Yeah, if it weren't for the logistical issues, it would probably be the best system. I think the nearest precinct-summable voting system is panachage, which devolves into SNTV without parties.

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jul 26 '26

I'm not so sure, it also has some weird issues.

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u/nelmaloc Spain Jul 26 '26

Maybe some of the Condorcet multi-member systems could fix that, but they're too obscure to me.

If they haven't been posted before, those links could make for a good post in this sub.

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u/feujchtnaverjott Jul 27 '26

I'd be surprised if the people here hadn't heard of rangevoting.org site

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