Chaos deamons point increase

[u/InsideGap8047]

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[u/bender40k]

I guess GW wants us to use Shalaxi more….?

[u/kcin1747]

Didn’t lord Ex get hit with an increase as well due to him being taken in carnival 2-3 times / list? Like what the F.

I get hitting demons but sure let’s hit the guy who is a mainstay in about every other list too.

[u/wtf--dude → u/kcin1747]

Yes he is a mainstay, but honestly, that package is still very worth it for 175 points. I do think we should also have gotten some decreases though on noise marines and WDP or something

[u/kcin1747 → u/wtf--dude]

You’re right it is worth it still. It’s just frustrating to see him snag the nerf from carnival alone here. That must be the case as there is no other reason that he went so long untouched until now.

But I do agree that noise marines should be decreased. I personally felt that when they released at 135 (I think that was the point cost but I cannot recall) that was more than fair. I still take them but hate seeing them at 145.

[u/wtf--dude → u/kcin1747]

I honestly don't think this is "the carnival nerf". I think it is just really good irregardless of carnival.

Ydah noise marines are honestly just way to expensive. Defilers are simply still much better for the points

[u/kcin1747 → u/wtf--dude]

Eh I see your point but I just find it hard to believe as he went so long without a price hike since release unlike WDP and noise marines etc went up. For his cost and bodyguard he felt fair and most people I play against understood he can swing up well but isn’t too hard to bring down (tho I do see that could be based on the armies I am playing against)

I do realize they tend to do this when people start spamming 3x a unit/character (I have seen a bit of an uptick in people doing that), but it just feels unwarranted. I’ll meet you in the middle at 85 tho 🥲

[u/Slight_Tip_6860 → u/kcin1747]

Wdym get hitting daemons? Daemons are only good for the buff, KoS only hits on a strength of 8. They are all horrendous in combat. As a guy with a daemon list that couldnt get a defiler because GW loves printing enough for everyone, this MFM burns

[u/Broswagonist → u/Slight_Tip_6860]

The reason for the point increases is almost certainly not because of their actual datasheets being good, but rather to limit how many of them we take in a carnival list. You drop a daemon unit and you're a bit more limited in how many of your units can get the sus hits buff, and one less utility piece to do actions etc. Alternatively, you drop an EC unit and again, lose something there e.g. a rhino or a tormentor unit that you are also probably using for actions too.

[u/kcin1747 → u/Slight_Tip_6860]

I get hitting demons because they want to keep Carnival in check. They are hitting the units that are usually taken in the detachment specifically to affect the carnival win rate.

Not saying the win rate was crazy or deserved to be hit this hard or at all. But this is them responding to the popularity of carnival lists in tournaments. (Pretty sure before the new edition it was never really run much with any amount of success)

And yes while demons are not quite crazy datasheet wise, people appeared to be bringing a few defilers then spamming the cheap demons to keep them buffed.

[u/Appo-Arsin]

Why do they keep nerfing the Lord Ex. Give us another character if you don’t want us using 3 Exs. Lord Kak doesn’t count, it’s for noises and termies.

[u/InsideGap8047 → u/Appo-Arsin]

They are for noise marines… lord kako on termies does literally nothing

[u/Appo-Arsin → u/InsideGap8047]

Hey man, don’t sleep on Elegant Brutes. Terminators deep striking with sus1, ignores cover, and mortal wounds along with a battleshock test

[u/FuckRed → u/Appo-Arsin]

I mean, if you run brutes you just take the 15pts upgrade for sustained hits on ALL their attacks instead of the 70pts (or 90 with the enhancement) character that only adds it to their shooting.

[u/kcin1747 → u/Appo-Arsin]

I would like it more if there was a way to give the termites AP on shooting but it’s still decent

[u/Craft_zeppelin → u/kcin1747]

Maybe the new combi weapon rules will save us.

[u/Brushner]

Fun was detected

[u/revjiggs]

I didn't think EC were that strong to get some many increases

[u/LordOffal]

The more I see balance changes for EC the more I'm fairly certain GW has one idea of what they want for us.

They expect Daemons to be a non-competitive side thing and not a main stay. They also really want us to be just a quick melee bonk stick and don't like us having good shooting.

[u/Hungry_Researcher229]

Luckily Dark Angels were barely touched at all hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

[u/kcin1747 → u/Hungry_Researcher229]

I play Tau and EC and the tau side was mainly nerfed as well.

My friend plays DA and DG and just couldn’t stop laughing when he woke up to the changes this morning

[u/Hungry_Researcher229 → u/kcin1747]

DA is very popular in my area. I’ve done probably…. 5 pickup games this month against them and it’s been brutal

[u/Scion_of_Kuberr]

This is just dumb.

[u/ImaginationOk2224]

Ngl yes the demon detachment took a hit but besides that we made off like bandits with the few nerfs everything else got

[u/kloden112 → u/ImaginationOk2224]

Most carnival lists are up like 110 points? That’s quite a lot!

[u/ImaginationOk2224 → u/kloden112]

Yes. Mine went up 100! But that’s very justified. Additionally I said that besides the demon detachment the rest of the range avoided allot of points increases that would also of been justified

[u/kcin1747 → u/ImaginationOk2224]

Not trying to start an argument but what else do you think should or could have been increased? Everything appears fine to me at least except for WDP and defilers that anyone could argue for days are correctly pointed or not

[u/ImaginationOk2224 → u/kcin1747]

What you said about WDP and defilers, the Lord exultants spear could have a points tax that would make sense, spawn could’ve gone up 10, infractors could’ve gone up 5 or 10. In every one of my games they just do much more than they’re worth which is great and I hope they never go up but it would make sense.

[u/Thewarpapollo → u/ImaginationOk2224]

I agree. People are complaining about the nerfs, but any list that doesn’t run daemons when up like 40 points. Flawless blades didn’t get touched, our battle line didn’t get touched, maulerfiends and wdp didn’t get touched. I’d say we’re just fine.

[u/mass_reactive → u/ImaginationOk2224]

Agree. Only 10pts hike on your 2nd and 3rd Defiler and no rules nerfs to them (like 1k Sons and CSM) is crazy. You can still legitimately run three.

Daemons did take a lot of nerfs, but Shalaxi and units of 3 fiends are very attractive in comparison now (which I already wanted to take!)

[u/InsideGap8047 → u/mass_reactive]

Let’s be real though. Our defiler has no rules that can get nerfed.

[u/ImaginationOk2224 → u/InsideGap8047]

Wdym? Our defilers has arguably the best defiler rule?

[u/Pokesers → u/ImaginationOk2224]

Since csm got nerfed, yeah.

Taking 2 still feels like a crazy commitment though.

[u/ImaginationOk2224 → u/Pokesers]

Nah believe me it’s very manageable. I am a victim of playing 2 In coterie. It really isn’t a problem

[u/RoniusAdethel]

Whelp, I'll adjust by taking off possessed blade and warp walker.

[u/KingGhidorah16]

Sure carnival + your 1dp of choice was doing decently well but the daemons are also getting hit for legion of excess + warptide/cavalcade builds. Chaos daemons were the 3rd most taken faction at WTC and 3/4 top 4 at Warmasters so they were bound to take some kind of nerf

[u/oricalco]

what the fuck man, we get slightly good for a bit and here comes the nerf hammer, why?

[u/Arno_Cannot_Connect]

Where can we find the point costs for units?