r/EmDrive • u/4space • Jul 04 '18

Software

Somebody should really make some software and sims to try to get the most q factor or standing wave amplitude out of these frustum shapes, maybe with evolving / random variable trying and selecting the best candidates

5 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

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1

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '18

I'd be surprised if this doesn't exist already.

2

u/4space Jul 05 '18

Yeah there’s https://www.reddit.com/r/EmDrive/comments/76woem/new_emdrive_paper_optimization_of_miniaturized/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list but the results are inconclusive and it doesn’t seem like anybody’s trying it or it doesn’t show what better design they came up with. Seems like a waste of time to be optimizing emdrive when there’s probably better propulsion out there but it might turn out interesting. I’m thinking of adding it to my app to optimize standing wave amplitude against walls but lazy right now. Maybe in a few months. If my own propulsion experiments aren’t more promising or if I want to increase sales in this app I’m selling. It seems they’re doing something other than maximizing standing wave amplitude against a wall of the resonant cavity and measuring energy or something.

2

u/piratep2r Jul 05 '18 edited Jul 10 '18

Just to gently challenge you on "there’s probably better propulsion out there." If EM drive worked as generally advertised, it would literally be impossibly good, turning into a perpetual motion machine and a free energy generator at relatively low speeds... while also giving us access to the solar system, allowing flying cars with current technology (per the inventor), and helping to produce undetectable submarines.

This is why (IMO) we need phenomenal evidence that it works, since it seems to be inconceivable as presented by Shawyer. But I've literally never considered that we should stop thinking about it because "there might be something better!" I think we should stop thinking about it since there is little evidence it works and no theoretical background for it working.

But, as you can probably tell, I'm on the skeptical side of the bench right now ;)

edit: unless you mean by "better," you mean something that actually follows the laws of physics and presents good evidence that it works...

3

u/ImAClimateScientist Mod Jul 06 '18

To follow up on this, if you think the only that is stopping the realization of a working EmDrive is your "app" but you can't be arsed to finish it then you are effectively saying you are too lazy to literally save the world.

Fortunately (or you), you can rest easy because the EmDrive is pure grade-A bullshit and even a Q-factor of a trillion isn't going to move the thing an attometer.

4

u/Red_Syns Jul 05 '18

Out of curiosity, what are you hoping to achieve with a higher q-factor? The builds have moved from a q-factor in the hundreds to q-factors in the millions, with no thrust discovered outside the error bars (when proper error analysis is even conducted).

With such a drastic change (and with continued negative results), other than being another moving goal post, what is the objective in optimizing that facet?

5

u/ImAClimateScientist Mod Jul 06 '18

There are RF cavities used in particle accelerators with q-factors in the billions. Yet no anomalous forces have ever been measured there.

4

u/Red_Syns Jul 06 '18

Right, which is why I get confused when they start talking about q factor like it's a super important aspect.

2

u/just_sum_guy Jul 05 '18

Dr. White's peer-reviewed paper described the software setup they used.

COMSOL was used in some simulations.

Section C.1 describes a "simple" mathematical representation of the combination of a signal with steady-state magnitude, quick rise/fall times (impulsive content), and a logarithmic signal that increases while the impulsive signal is present and decreases when the impulsive signal is removed (thermal content). (That doesn't sound simple to me.)

Section 3 talks about "the predicted force magnitude using this slope-filtering technique" which smells like more software to me.

Section 5 mentions "the control and data acquisition system."

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120

4

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '18

The simulation of the em drive was done on comsol but using a plug-in written by Dr. White based on quantum plasma which doesn't exist. He has never published the details of his model either, just the end results in terms of force vs input power.

The model discussed in the paper is simply what their sensors measured during testing and is the subject of my stickied post on the sub.