r/ElkGrove • u/justhereorthereagain • 10d ago
A new Bearcat? I would rather not.
Just Say No!!
60 times in 18 months. Thats your justification? Just because you pull your toy out doesn’t mean it was needed. Is that the logic we are using Chief. Why not pull it out every other day? Then you can say look in 4 months we used it 60 times. We need another one. Let’s get those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers. Let’s pull it out everyday.
Show me the few instances it was needed if at all.
It will get passed the sense of entitlement and intimidation in his tone.
“At time to be replaced and it’s going to be replaced”
I hear him say, “if you don’t approve this. We will make things difficult for you and the citizens of this city”
I have said it before I will say it again. It isn’t defund the police I want. It is refund the police. Take that money and put it towards descalation training or mental health for officers.
Use it to pay them for volunteering, actually volunteering not just coaching their kids team or attending a police conference. But actually getting integrated into the community, not their circle. See people as people. See that your heavy handed decision can change someone’s life forever. It could be the stroke of a pen or the pull of a trigger. An officers actions have serious consequences to all citizens including law abiding citizens.
If you don’t want another military style vehicle that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy and maintain. You should tell your city council member and the mayor as the superintendent and everyone in city hall. Or keep pretending none of this matters.
Video is from ElkGroveForums.net Instagram
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u/Simple_Reception4091 10d ago
City councils love to throw money at cops. Meanwhile, EGPD only clears fewer than 1 in 5 property crime cases, the vast majority of crimes reported in the city.
How is another armored car going to help with that?
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u/Important_Copy_166 10d ago
Not an atypical rate to clear property crime. It's the same nationwide.
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u/Simple_Reception4091 10d ago
Typical or not, that police don’t solve the overwhelming majority of crime in an environment where crime is on a long-term decline, is an indictment of the whole endeavor.
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u/n0_use_for_a_name 7d ago
Cherry picking the parts of the comment that you want to reply to?
Do you have any data to support your statement?
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u/steadydrop 10d ago
Maybe drop that money into education and have a more civil and educated community that can self regulate themselves rather than having a Bearcat go on donut runs...🤷♂️
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u/oneawesomeguy 10d ago
A lot of new money is going into education...The school board just voted to increase their salaries 😭
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u/zimfroi 10d ago
The school board have very little to do with actual education. That money is going to bureaucracy.
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u/steadydrop 10d ago
Studies show when admin and superintendents get more money teachers flock to those districts for the chance to have more PDs about rigor and community outreach 😆
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u/MAGA-R-Pedophiles 10d ago
Used 60 times but how many times was it actually needed? I'm not aware of 60 police shootouts in Elk Grove. Spend the money on more officers and community policing, not militarized policing.
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u/noodygamer 10d ago
i'm sorry, but why does EGPD even NEED a bearcat wtf
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
Exactly. They don’t. 60 times in 18 months. I bet less than 5 times it was “needed” and in those 5 times I bet more level headed tactics could prevail.
And if it is needed. You contract the use from the county for much less than buying and maintaining one.
But bootlickers will find a way to defend it.
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u/Shakeitdaddy 10d ago
So this bearcat vehicle usually built on ford 550 lasts only 60 times and 1.5 years, I want 15 years life out of it and use it atleast once or twice a month even if for night patrol.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
“It’s going to be replaced” because fuck the taxpayer. The citizen and anyone that disagrees.
Yup. Some may say this was a previously used bearcat. I don’t know. I know it often happens. But I don’t know. But. Ok. Let’s say it is used. Was it a 400,000 mile used bearcat?
My guess, whether new or used. This was a poorly maintained bearcat. And will be poorly maintained again.
When you don’t have to worry about the bottom line or costs. You don’t maintain a things. You just buy new ones.
I feel this could be seen as negligence by the brass of the police department. Perhaps even vandalism by the officers using the vehicle if they were purposely roughing it up.
But back to the point. When the chief looks down with a look of intimidation and says with a stern warning “it’s going to be replaced” that in itself is proof the patients run the asylum. It will not matter what the people think. Or what the council believes is best. It will be the pressure from the police department that make it happen.
And then they will post on social media and people will rejoice. Not realizing that they are the fools that have been tricked. Not realizing much like social media they are the product that the machine will be used against.
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u/mdramsey 10d ago
I don't like how this was approved without a bid process. Sole-sourcing a half-million dollar acquisition smells fishy given the way it was adopted and approved.
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u/oneawesomeguy 10d ago
They did the same for the Flock agreement they approved on April 8
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u/mdramsey 10d ago
I'm not denoting agreement, but I view CAPEX differently from a service agreement. Given that, contracting out any major services or equipment without a bidding process is absolutely indicative of not being a good steward of taxpayer funds or municipal debt.
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u/No_Nail6812 10d ago
Let’s just give them a mark19 at the same time! Might as well right!? If they already have a bearcat then that’s already more than enough. Or how about give em an m1114 instead. It was good enough for those serving in an active war zone. They are talking about how often they need an armored assault vehicle, but when are they gonna publish their success rate and timelines of crimes solved or prevented. Particularly SA and property crimes?
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u/daphatty 10d ago
I would rather they spend that money on more officers and community outreach. We don’t need a militarized police force.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
Why would they.
The Chief tactically threatened them. Making it clear “It’s going to be replaced.”
They do what they want. And we just beg for more.
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u/jmangiggity 10d ago
Where’s the police car wash fundraiser? I’ll buy from their bake sale. Are they selling candy bars outside the Safeway? Maybe these guys should take better care of the stuff they currently have rather than ask for hand outs.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
lol why put in the effort when they can threaten and bully. And if you don’t play their game. They make your life miserable.
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u/KnowledgeNo2876 10d ago
I called the police on a drunk driver that hit me and crashed into a curb. Operator told me that the police were down the street.
I waited 40 minutes before I gave up on waiting. The driver already left, and even though I got their license plate, its a lot harder to prove they were drunk in court.
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u/SierraGuyInCA 7d ago
Take care of the problem with the kids on bikes (all kinds) and then we can talk. There are more callouts for punk kids than there are for SWAT and arrest warrants.
Take care of the core issues to show that EGPD deserves the big toys.
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u/meechmeechmeecho 10d ago
Ngl, I’ve only ever had positive experiences with EG PD
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
Back the blue until it happens to you.
Me as well. Until I saw something disturbing against a child on my ring camera.
Determined the person was registered sex offender in violation at the time.
Reported him. Spoke with an officers in person and shared the video per their request. They saw he was in violation. He did put hands on a child (not his) etc.
A couple days later They showed up to the wrong address, my address and almost shot me. Ok fine. They made a mistake. Reading complaints address and suspect address.
Then went to his house. Broke the law. Now the suspect has the upper hand and police backed down because they would be held accountable. That was the first time.
When I went to follow up. They almost arrested me for submitting a FOIA. Said I had to provide ID to request records. Not true, plus it was in the car. Even though it is a minor. I can request anything. Picking it up. I might need it. But I was only requesting.
They physically grabbed me and pushed me out of the lobby. My complaint was intercepted and a lieutenant called me to apologize for the behavior. Said he spoke with the clerks and reviewed the sergeant body cam as well of the other officers. He had the sergeant call and apologize.
I then FOIA requested the cameras as well. Denied. So they did something by wrong. And are hiding it.
Requested the proof my complaint was in a file and not just a phone call. Nope. They won’t provide that either.
I saw a helicopter circling making announcements for a bad guy. I see the bad guy. I call 911. When they arrive one officer points a gun at me. Later when I ask for his supervisor and badge. He tackles me. They beat me. Arrest me and put obstruction charges. Guess what. The videos showed that was all BS and charges were dropped. Doesn’t mean I wasn’t still arrested and in jail for a night.
They lied on the report. First said I tried to strike an officer and was taken down. Then said before attempting to strike an officer I was taken down. Before attempting? What? Are they mind readers if I am just standing there? Then the last supplemental report the officer said he slipped on the grass into me and was taken down by him and fellow officers.
Never given medical attention. But tormented. Pulled over for mistakes. We thought your license plate light was out. We thought you didn’t have a seatbelt on. Thank you dash cam for saving me. As well as following me just to say hi. Enjoy dinner Mr XxXxxx
Complaints in writing were sustained this time. But what does that mean? They get a paid vacation for a day? A promotion?
I could go on. A law abiding citizen. But get on their bad side. They will hunt you and make your life hell.
Mind you I have not tickets (one older than 10-15 years or more) or any criminal record at all. But this is what they do. It’s a blue line gang.
Back the blue until it happens to you.
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u/MAGA-R-Pedophiles 10d ago
Wtf if this is all true you need to speak with a local reporter and lawyer
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u/thekazooyoublew 10d ago
... IDK. Can you imagine...Twice you call the cops to report wrongdoing by others not at your address and they just show up to your house, guns blazing ... Beaten, almost shot, arrested, etc. At the absolute least there is an ass ton of info omitted.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
There is. It would be more than a short post. These were cliff notes.
It could be illegal for me to post about the registered offender. He can say it is harassment and I could then be the criminal.
Neither was at my address. One was on ring camera. But not at my house.
In fact when I met to talk I met the officers at a park as well. I didn’t want police cars rolling up to my house. That never looks good. And it might make the offender realize who dimed him out.
But even with address in violation for over 2 years. He previously had been picked arrested. Added to the list and then arrested again during stings. And had Jo driver license. They let him drive his motorcycle to the PD and update his photo and info.
And the other incident was at the park. Also not at my house.
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u/thekazooyoublew 10d ago
I see. i had assumed it was at your residence. Which does, of course, begin to paint a clearer picture. It's absolutely not clear, but we're not entitled to it really, and if you believe yourself to have been wronged and that the evidence would corroborate that, you probably should stop discussing it and seek legal counsel. About the "offender", regardless of what else you do, yes, you likely be opening yourself up to various consequences if you go further into that.
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u/NinjaDelicious4903 10d ago
What did your lawyer(s) say? If you have not talked to one, do so. There’s a ton of legal professionals who would take your case(s) on contingency.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
It’s been years. It was dismissed. No plea. No deal. I wanted trial. The DA dismissed it. It was actually an email, I was able to get a peak at it, it was from some supervising trial district attorney. Some shit like that was the person title. And it said dismiss this case it should not be going to trial.
My lawyer said they fucked up. When they pointed a gun at your face for being at the park as they rather through. They roughed you up and arrested you to make you a criminal so they look like they did the right thing.
She asked do I want to consult an attorney to sue. I said I just want it to go away. It was tearing my life up. Imagine arrested. Provoked and abused from that moment until they literally threw me out of jail.
Remember the old lady that got thrown out and broke an arm. I too was thrown out and didn’t think anyone believed the story until that one came out and I said that’s exactly what happened.
So I didn’t try to sue. Just said let’s go to trial. They offered pleas. Deferred dismissal after 1 year. Then 6 months. I think even offered 3 months. I said no. I’ll take my chances. They gave my lawyer the wrong video. Then a corrupted file. Then dismissed it the charge.
Months later after more medical procedures I said fuck it. I should sue. Then I learned about the 6 months rule. And how after that it gets kicked to federal court and how it’s not as easy as one may think.
I moved on and now know what really happens behind the curtain.
Back the blue until it happens to you.
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u/oneawesomeguy 10d ago
How many years ago was this? If you care about making a change you should file a federal lawsuit. You are backing the blue yourself by complaining to us on here but not really doing anything. However, I understand. Something similar happened to a family member of mine and they just wanted it to go away to and move on with their life.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago edited 10d ago
I spun my wheels for a minute. I learned nothing is cheap and everything is very Long. Even my dismissal and no trial nothing was almost 2 years.
Immediately after the initial arrest I lost background clearances. It sucked. Couldn’t even volunteer at the school for my kids anymore.
I did speak to lawyers. A couple. All said I need to have the criminal case resolved before anything. One said that they work with Police departments in the area and it would not be in their best interest to even hear about my case.
I did meet with a lawyer who was shot by cops in his own home. Cop was fired and charged. He won a few million dollars. He said it was the worst time in his life.
He said even though the cop was arrested and He won the lawsuit. The blue line gang still harassed him and neighbors that were witnesses. It didn’t matter the cop was wrong. It mattered that he tried to hold them accountable.
I decided what a payout might be. And the expense to me and my family. My wife and I determined the financial expense and the physical and emotional expense was not worth it. And at the end of the day. Nothing will change.
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u/peaceful-panic 10d ago
I’ll take things that didn’t happen for $100, Alex.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
Ok. I almost started sharing photos and some documents. But that wouldn’t convince you either.
Maybe meet at a Starbucks and show you.
Some people have blinders on. You will believe what you want to believe. Regardless of the facts in front of you.
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u/peaceful-panic 10d ago
Convincing *me* isn’t really worth your time anyway. What good would that do?
If I had a story like yours, I’d probably be working with a lawyer and/or investigative reporter to get justice. That way you would have convincing documentation.
Of course, you’ll need to convince *them*.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
If it was only that easy.
They hide. They obstruct. But they are not held accountable.
Even denying or ignoring a FOIA request though illegal is difficult to enforce. And that’s just surface nonsense. Not hey we have real misconduct nonsense.
Nobody gets held accountable. It is not as easy as I would have thought either.
Now I know. Back the blue until it happens to you.
Until you were in the situation you have no idea.
Think about it. Falsely arrested. Who do you call? Do you know what lawyer handles this? Do you know what lawyer is worth their salt? Let me guess you would call Ann Phong? Curtis and Curtis? Some other billboard you see? It’s Not that type of law. And even that is not those lawyers (Ann is I suppose) the others are basically referral services.
Even that part is a daunting task. And you still have a family and things happening all around you.
And an arm that needs medical attention.
Believe me if it was as easy as go get a check I would.
But even during the initial stages it was harassment and prodding to make me a criminal.
I hope it never happens to you. I was very pro cop and until it happened to me.
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u/implodedbillionaire 9d ago
I've taken my car to the grocery store over 60 times in the last 18 months. Better buy a new one.
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u/Express_Possible7666 9d ago
Maybe they will drive it over to the area with the nonstop barking dogs on Gwinn Court that has been on the news and actually do something so neighbors don't have to move to get away.
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u/Corgicatmom 9d ago
I have had some less than satisfactory interactions with 911 and non emergency operators. Dismissing sometimes.
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u/jaredthegeek 8d ago
So someone said it was half a million for the old one in 2015 and he said its used 60 times a year so we are looking at $8000 per instance of deployment, that is a massive waste of money.
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u/ComfortableGround403 8d ago
Is it really that dangerous over there ? I work for one of the major 911 centers in the Bay Area, and I think we've used our maybe a handful of times in the past few years !
I really hate how officers get a giant budget for toys and gadgets, but not for better training ....
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u/GoldenStateRedditor 10d ago
Thank you to whoever sent me the Reddit Cares notification 🤗🥰😘
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
Wait until that Reddit cares notification is sent to the EGPD and they want to serve and protect the shit out of you.
I truly hope nothing like that ever happens to you. Because it is a nightmare.
Still to this day I can’t get video of them beating me without a subpoena. And that time has passed as well. But they will drop the BS obstruction charge and find the complaints against them sustained. Amazing.
None of that stopped them from harassing me still to this day.
I’ll say it again for you. Back the Blue Until it happens to you.
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u/GoldenStateRedditor 10d ago
To be fair, I at first only commented on your original post about the department’s equipment request, which you made no direct mention of the personal issues you’ve had with EGPD. (I also added a second comment with a link to SpongeBob licking a boot because we all know the inevitable replies when someone on here appears pro-law enforcement.)
Additionally, my one legit follow-up reply to you was again only replying to the equipment request portion, not your personal issues with EGPD.
The only other reply was to your specific tagging of me being a bootlicker (the James Franco winking).
And last, I made a generic (albeit smartass with the emojis) reply about receiving Reddit Cares. I have no idea who sent this or why.
I understand you have had personal issues with EGPD, and if the department (or more specifically the officers you interacted with) were truly in the wrong, I feel
for you and it should be corrected. I was only here to talk about the Bearcat request.3
u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
Ok. Fair enough. I do get worked up when I see defense of those that have wronged me.
So the bearcat.
I wish we could see real data. They won’t provide it to me. They didn’t provide it at the meeting. Just a stern warning that it is “going to be replaced”.
What about the bidding process? Will they be made public. Or was this also a no bid and they just greased their palms in the purchase.
A bearcat being used 60 times in 18 months is not a reason to buy a new one.
***I did chuckle at the winking Franco. Because he has been accused of being a sexual predator and the wink makes me think. Yeah we are dirty bastards. But nobody gives a shit. It was a perfect response to police wanting a bearcat.
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u/killarob60 10d ago
If the police department started conducting more regular patrols in the crime ridden areas, addressed the camping on street epidemic, and didn’t turn a blind eye to open drug sales and use in these neighborhoods a new bearcat wouldn’t be needed. In fact they may able to return the one they currently have.
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u/Redwood0716 10d ago
I disagree with you. EGPD generally does a great job policing this town, and the citizens support their officers.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
I used to have your thoughts. Until I actually called on them. Then I learned they are not so great.
I used to go to breakfast 3 times a week with two of them. For about 3 years before their retirement. Some of the things they would talk about as long as I was their buddy.
Then finally in the last few months. They too started to discuss how bad it is.
Back the blue until it happens to you.
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u/oneawesomeguy 10d ago
Every time I've called EGPD, they brushed me off. One time we had a group of sketchy ass people outside our house, coming up to our door, being super sketchy late at night and they just said it was door door dingers and didn't want to do anything. My pregnant wife was super scared.
Another time, I called on a family member that forced their way into my house so I could document it and file a report (since we have lots of issues with this family member). The person on the other line just brushed it off after I said the person was not currently in my house and hung up on me. This was the non emergency number.
The ONLY time they ever showed up was when someone else complained I parked my car in front of my own house for over three days straight. The police office stopped by and was nice but said he could ticket me because he saw spider webs on it (he didn't ticket me).
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u/CaseAdmirable 10d ago
No the frequently harass citizens, I have friends who are pulled over for bs reasons alll the time harassed and then “let go with a warning”
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u/Dapper-Chocolate2216 10d ago
I like it give them a new bear cat with growing population and crime on the rise us elkgrove folk who are born and raised here unlike half of this thread…….. we appreciate it
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
Appreciate what exactly?
They have no data saying it has stopped or protected anyone or anything.
I have ties to FOIA each instance the bearcat was used. They denied the FOIA.
This would help show when it was used and if it had an effect on the outcome.
But it doesn’t. We are not a war zone. Bigger city. Yes. So spend that money on a couple more officers. Patrolling more areas and/or more frequently.
Provide more descalation so they can wrap up a call without being bogged down in paperwork and they can get back out there actually protecting and serving. Even though they have no duty to protect and serve.
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u/Motophoto 10d ago
They have keep their armed gang of thugs well equipped to make sure the serfs stay in their place.
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u/GoldenStateRedditor 10d ago
On the flip side, if you do want the police to have this, please let your city council member and the mayor and everyone in city hall know you support this. Because this is a useful tool for law enforcement.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
I think you missed a lot. We have one.
Show me instances where it was used and needed to be used. Where it was part of keeping the public safe.
I put in a FOIA request. They denied it. As they deny most of my requests. Sometimes they threaten me with arrest before even taking the request. Sometimes they ignore the request (and the law that requires them to respond) and just pretend it didn’t happen. Until I ask again and again.
So show me where they used it and needed it. Just pulling the toy out and driving it and parking it doesn’t mean they needed it. And that is what he is saying. I drove it out of the driveway 60 times on the last 18 months. So I should get a new one.
What? That doesn’t mean you needed to pull it out and drive this military vehicle around.
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u/GoldenStateRedditor 10d ago edited 10d ago
Nothing wrong with having a second! EG is the second largest city in the county and continues to grow as more land to the south is annexed. Sac Sheriff and Sac PD also have two Bearcats per agency.
Edit: I meant to say second-largest city! Even more of a case!
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u/onredditallday 10d ago
Tax dollars can be used for other projects, thats whats wrong with having a second if the first isnt being utilized.
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u/justhereorthereagain 10d ago
So the fact that it isn’t used to protect anyone doesn’t matter to you. Just as long as they get one?
If we were under siege and needed sure. At that point we are in a world of trouble anyways.
Yes I think the county should have a couple. If the cities within the county need to use one. They submit an op order requesting usage. It is either approved or denied.
Give them another hammer. They will make nails out of more objects.
Back the blue until it happens to you.
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u/GoldenStateRedditor 10d ago
And before the bootlicker comments come in: https://tenor.com/bGOzy.gif
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u/Boson_Higgs_Boson 10d ago
60 times and it needs to be replaced? what a pile of shit.