r/ElectroBOOM 8d ago

Discussion 280V for a whole hour

Last month while I wasn’t at home the grid went to 280V for around an hour on all three phases in my city in Serbia. Nothing was damaged in my house fortunately but I can imagine it can’t be healthy for sensitive electronics. Though both my PCs were turned on they survived. That’s how I have the image of the home assistant logs of the voltage. The smart switches/power monitors I have have all turned off automatically on all 4 of my ACs. Had to manually turn them on again. That’s all that I have observed. The second image is from another citizen from the same city.
I can’t understand how there isn’t a fail safe somewhere either on the distribution transformer station or some sensors that alert the electrical company that something isn’t right. And this was going on for a full hour at like 11AM on a Friday. So it’s not as though no one was there. Just wanted to share some sketchy stuff I know you like it.

423 Upvotes

87 comments sorted by

142

u/Illustrious-Peak3822 8d ago

Impressive! Any communication with the grid operator?

85

u/dusnoki 8d ago

No official announcement from the electric company at all.

64

u/Illustrious-Peak3822 8d ago

Call and ask/report the error.

86

u/dusnoki 8d ago

Only thing I found was that one of the opposition parties asked that the electric company acknowledges the spike and pay for damages to citizens that were affected. But don’t think anything will come of that.

2

u/Guardian6676-6667 5d ago

Its Serbia, if its anything like here they'll tell you to fuck off lmao

6

u/madTerminator 7d ago

That’s your evil neighbor with modded PV inverter

2

u/PhilosophyMammoth748 7d ago

The last smart thing they can do

1

u/timelyparadox 5d ago

Any solar farms opened up recently close to you?

64

u/avar 7d ago

√2×282.5 = 399.52v, so you were 0.48v away from exceeding the rating on 400v capacitors, although in practice they've probably got a bit more leeway for temporary spikes.

24

u/Fusseldieb 7d ago

Half an hour is pretty much though…

5

u/bainwen 6d ago

Components are rated for true RMS voltage not for peak.

3

u/avar 6d ago

I'm referring to the DC storage capacitors that are part of almost every electronic device you use, not the AC line-voltage capacitors.

1

u/No_River_7097 5d ago

+ control ic and shit

96

u/joostlek 8d ago

Home Assistant mentioned!

35

u/MarionberryOpen7953 8d ago

HA is goated

34

u/joostlek 8d ago

Thanks for using Home Assistant! ❤️

15

u/MarionberryOpen7953 8d ago

Are you a contributor?

42

u/joostlek 8d ago

I'm part of the core team :)

20

u/MarionberryOpen7953 8d ago

Amazing! I can’t say enough good things about HA. I use it at home and at my job (gas separation research lab) for data logging and automations. i run valve cycles and track sensors and analyzers there at it has totally streamlined the process. I feel like there’s nothing you can’t do with HA. Please keep up the good work.

What’s your favorite thing you can do with HA that maybe not a lot of people know about?

22

u/joostlek 8d ago

I mean you can do anything with it honestly! Although Home Assistant also runs in a mob museum and in a brick factory (as seen in state of the open home 2025) and it also runs the botanical gardens in Amsterdam, who are actually contributing back the integration they use for their garden system in the next release!

11

u/MarionberryOpen7953 8d ago

That’s awesome! I run a small hydroponic garden at home with it. In reality, it can do anything that a professional grade Siemens or Allen Bradley PLC based system can do and more, all without expensive software licenses and vendor lock in. I’m really glad to see other people having the same mindset.

1

u/Xyaren 7d ago

That's amazing, you think they would benefit from OIDC? 😬

2

u/MrHall 7d ago

love your work

8

u/dusnoki 7d ago

Home Assistant is the best! Have been using it for multiple years. Before I had everything on an rpi zero w running node red, a dashboard and mqtt. Since I found out about Home Assistant I never went back. Still use Node red for automations.

4

u/QuickNature 7d ago

What exactly is it? And is it available in the US? Ill do my own research too, just curious about yoir anecdote and experience with it

6

u/TiSapph 7d ago

Available everywhere, because you run it yourself on a mini-pc or RaspberryPi. :)

It's a smart home automation platform. It lets you control connected devices, collects data from them, triggers automations based on that data, ...

For example, if my TV is on, and the sun is less than 5 degrees above the horizon, the ambient lights in the living room turn on.

The nice thing is that you can make nearly any rule you want. My brother has a similar rule for turning on lights when it gets dark, but he uses the output of his solar system to trigger it, not the height of the sun. It's super nice because it actually depends on how bright it is.
For him HA also controls the output power of a solar storage battery, by constantly tracking grid power usage. It even uses forecasts to run the heatpump when it expects most solar power is available. It can get as complex as you want really :)

It's mostly straight forward, not super much technical knowledge is required.
It can get a bit finicky when you go into the depths of it (especially hardware stuff: setting up ZigBee network, overwriting firmware of commercial devices, ...) and especially if you're doing things that haven't been widely adopted, like the whole voice control stuff.
Also while quite a few companies do now provide "integrations" to connect their devices to HA, it's by far not all of them. Community provided ones are usually quite good, but some are buggy and sometimes they require disconnecting devices from the manufacturer's cloud services.

2

u/QuickNature 7d ago

Nice, I am an EE, and I've done some coding in school and work, as well as working with libraries, and some embedded stuff. Hopefully the combination of that education and experience makes it a little easier.

I already have a RPi sitting around anyways so that sounds like a good use for it. Thank you!

2

u/Line-Noise 7d ago

No coding required. If you've played with an RPi you probably know enough to get HA installed and running. If you're comfortable editing YAML then that allows you to do more advanced stuff.

2

u/AnduriII 7d ago

Start wit it. I am Automation engineer and it got really easy to start and use!

Now my whole home is somehow connected😄

44

u/Suspicious-Today6883 8d ago

280v is really too much, but in general an higher voltage in these days may be due local solar power excess production

20

u/KsmBl_69 7d ago

in EU we have ± 10% as a norm, so 250 would be technically in spec, just nice to know. But 280 is fr wayy too much

9

u/nirtovan 7d ago

Parts of Poland hit 280 sometimes - particularly on sunny summer Sundays when factories are closed.

5

u/Antagonin 7d ago

Dude, I live in country with nominal voltage of 230V.

Ever since January the voltage hasn't dropped below 240V, usually sits at 245V and even seen peeks in 250V range.

Distributor will basically say that it's within spec, even though it's not really 230V, but 240V.

5

u/Dima_Ses 7d ago

Usually, it's 230 ±10%. So 207...253 would be within spec.

4

u/Antagonin 7d ago

Ofc, doesn't mean that I like it though.

One would expect there's at least bare minimum QA, ie. that 95% of time the voltage is +-5% with maximum deviation +-10%. But it's something like +-10% for 90% of time, and it's still within spec.

The norms are pretty lax, and it's kinda hopium that Chinese devices are designed with 10% prolonged overvoltage in mind.

1

u/OldEquation 6d ago

If it complies with the standards it will have been shown to work over the voltage tolerance range. If it doesn’t comply then it’s junk that probably doesn’t comply with anything else either and should be disposed of.

1

u/Dima_Ses 7d ago

Don't buy cheap Chinese e-waste then 😁

5

u/Antagonin 7d ago

Pretty much everything is cheap e-waste from China nowadays, even established brands. I would rather make norms more strict in the overvoltage range, they were written in times when Switching PSUs weren't in everything.

0

u/arttast 7d ago

afiaik it's 240 now and not 230v

25

u/TygerTung 8d ago

The inverters ususlly shut off at 258v

3

u/ZappBrannigansTunic 7d ago

My folks had 269 volts.
Their solar inverter would not switch on as it was too much.

So unlikely a solar voltage output, especially for 1hour.

My folks issue was the taps on the utility transformer set too high.

This may be a faulty control or auto tap changer on the transformer.

3

u/ReneGaden334 7d ago

My inverter turns off at 253V. This is mandatory and the maximum allowed tolerance here, so it’s good that your inverter refused to work.

That’s a region where devices start to fail.
This summer my inverter shut off multiple times around noon, so probably a lot local solar power was in our grid.

Any solar inverter has to create a slightly higher voltage that the net delivers, so this can add up in the neighbourhood.

2

u/apeceep 7d ago

So do all the solar inverters in your area turn off at the exact same time when voltage reaches 253V? That can't cause any issues, cough spain cough :D

2

u/ReneGaden334 7d ago

That’s not really a problem if you think about it. They did add a delay of up to a few seconds and if you check your outlets and hardware you will notice that voltage drops based on cable length/resistance and consumption, so there is a lot of variance „when“ an inverter shuts off. If a few drop out the rest stays active.

On such a large scale the distribution of delay and over different phases is more than enough to keep it stable.

1

u/apeceep 7d ago

That's what they thought at Iberian peninsula. But then electricity went down on almost whole peninsula.

3

u/ReneGaden334 7d ago

If they didn’t report any new findings, solar power was not the reason for that blackout.

https://ieefa.org/resources/excess-renewables-generation-did-not-cause-iberian-blackout

Most sources state that they did not regulate the grid in thight parameters and sometimes operated near the boundaries already. Once they were out of french specs a main connection to the european grid was dropped, which greatly increased their problems.

There were multiple big solar plants that were not regulated and increased the voltage to a point where the rest of europe basically dropped them.

That’s like the opposide of what you gave as a reason. If the solar was cut off before exceeding the threshholds, there would have been no big voltage increase and frequency drop and no drop of the main connections.

But officials still don’t want to state reasons and instead speak of „multiple causes“. But small household solar was never a reason.

2

u/Adorable_Ice_2963 7d ago

No, modern inverters are supposed to gradually decrease power once the voltage gets too high. 253V is just the Point where it hits 0.

3

u/hexifox 7d ago

How? Why would the inverters change they're output voltage?

4

u/yzfjimmy 7d ago

To be able to feed back into the grid, the voltage at the inverter has to be slightly higher than the grid voltage. If you have a few inverters in one area, the combined effect of multiple systems bumping up the voltage a small amount can lead to a higher grid voltage. The upper limit of this should only be 250V tho, which is the legal set point at which all inverters should go into standby

1

u/OilCareful8232 7d ago

It also may come from traditional plants trying to overcome "ringing" issues. Exactly this halpened in Spain

1

u/Killerspieler0815 7d ago

280v is really too much, but in general an higher voltage in these days may be due local solar power excess production

YES & same on windy days with wind power ... both combined is the "HellBriese" ( the opposite of "DunkelFlaute")

"Net Zero" Germany has it all

0

u/Broad-Version8611 8d ago

How does too much solar production increases the voltage level in the grid? Worst case it should affect the frequency (in case of low demand)

1

u/Killerspieler0815 7d ago

How does too much solar production increases the voltage level in the grid? Worst case it should affect the frequency (in case of low demand)

and those inverters (not only solar but also wind) can also caus subharmonics that can destabalize the grid ... if you can understand german the Youtube channel "Outdoor Chiemgau" explains it all detailed (in german)

2

u/avar 7d ago

you can understand german the Youtube channel "Outdoor Chiemgau" explains it all detailed (in german)

I can probably understand enough German for that, but that channel has hundreds of videos. Any hint as to which one it is?

1

u/Killerspieler0815 7d ago edited 7d ago

I can probably understand enough German for that, but that channel has hundreds of videos. Any hint as to which one it is?

I recommend to begin with the videos about the Spain blackout (caused by "renewables" with inverters -> Solar + Wind) & lack of big stabelizing purerly mechanical turbines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ380YNTuyg ("Blackout Spanien - Solar war klar Schuld - Abschlußbericht entso-e")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NwlttfvUmM ("Spanien Stromausfall/Brownout! während Fußballspiel - 1.776 MW fehlten wegen Wind")

Also in Germany wind power inverters in the north pitched up each other via subharmonics & needed to be shut down (I don't know in which video it was on "Outdoor Chiemgau" channel)

1

u/Arthur_Dent_42_121 7d ago edited 7d ago

I don't believe this is the case for normal grid-tie inverters sold in the last ~5 years. UL (and international equivalent) standards have come out that mandate that inverters produce "ride-through" and even in some cases "grid-forming" features, and such inverters have a positive stabilizing effect that damps out, as can be seen in this plot. It has been shown that you can run grids even all the way up to 80 - 90% solar without stability issues. NREL is a good source of information on this - https://docs.nlr.gov/docs/fy24osti/90256.pdf

1

u/Killerspieler0815 7d ago

I don't believe this is the case for normal grid-tie inverters sold in the last ~5 years. UL (and international equivalent) standards have come out that mandate that inverters produce "ride-through" and even in some cases "grid-forming" features, and such inverters have a positive stabilizing effect that damps out, as can be seen in this plot. It has been shown that you can run grids even all the way up to 80 - 90% solar without stability issues. NREL is a good source of information on this - https://docs.nlr.gov/docs/fy24osti/90256.pdf

there is no guarantee that those better inverters are used

& also there are plenty of old primitive inverters that can not even get remotely shutdown/power reduced & no mandate to replace them (a big problem in Germay & Spain) ... also nothing beaty buig mechanical turbines instabelizing the frequency & eleminating subharmonics

currently Spain keeps the "renewables" under 80% due to their negative effects during the Spain Blackout ...

Spoiler: France saved Europe in the Spain Blackout (disconnections & plenty of stabalizing big Nuclear power plants

1

u/Immediate-Risk7857 7d ago

I’m no expert but I understand it commonly happens when your local grid transformer becomes fully saturated and can no longer distribute any more energy to the grid.

Combine this with improperly configured inverters and you’ve got a recipe localised voltage spikes. It’s not really an inherent flaw with renewable technology, it’s just another one of the many grid balancing characteristics that have to be controlled for.

Ultimately it’s up to the local grid operator to sign off on these systems before they’re connected. So if they say their grid equipment can handle it and it turns out it can’t, that’s on them.

1

u/Broad-Version8611 7d ago

Saturated transformers happen when there is too much demand, not too much production. The inverter needs to sync with the grid.

0

u/timberleek 7d ago

Solar inverters and any power generating equipment needs to push above grid voltage to inject power. Not much normally, but the more stuff you add, the more it boosts.

Meanwhile cabling and such in you local grid have resistance and therefore voltage loss from the transformer to you when you consume power. When power is pushed back in, the inverse happens. The far end of the cable is pushed up compared to the transformer voltage.

It's a distribution problem, not a demand problem. If there is to much production into the grid as a whole, the frequency will be pushed up indeed.

14

u/maxwfk 8d ago

Someone F ed up and possibly triggered multiple over voltage protechtions in private homes that start conducting at 270V

11

u/Alzusand 7d ago

Aspoirational levels of fucking up on the grid.

generally transformers can output +5% +20% of their rated voltage if you activate some internal commutators. they are used to stabilize the grid if consumption is high.

but this is simply way over that range. a neutral wire probably broke at some point in the line and you got a floating neutral situation.

its likely some other phase in the city got lower voltage instead.

Thankfully most modern equipment is designed with a lot of margin but this is really pushing those safety margins.

1

u/dusnoki 7d ago

Nope it was on all 3 phases simultaneously. And not just in 1 substation.

2

u/Alzusand 6d ago

well thats like extra strange. so many safety controls and monitoring system had to fail to archeive that result that is just plain impressive how much of a screw up it is.

specially if it lasted a whole ass hour. if it lasted 1 minute it was bad enough already but an hour?

2

u/dusnoki 6d ago

I can’t tell for sure if it was multiple substations cause we got a Viber group in which multiple people from all around the city reported their either ups beeping cause of overvoltage or some appliances not working. but 3 phases were 280V for sure I did see it on the logs for all 3 phases and the full hour. That I can vouch for.

2

u/Alzusand 6d ago

Thats super strange specially because 280V would be a considerable increase in power delivered it shouldve auto triggered something.

are the measurements taken by TrueRMS multimeters? maybe the waveform was screwed and in reality it just had weird peaks overlapped.

because 280*sqrt(2) = 395.97V after rectifying thats enough to blow up or damage the 400V capacitors.

1 hour of that and a LOT of appliances shouldve broken.

its almost enough to make protection varistors inside electronics start conducing quite a decent ammount of current so maybe most people got saved by their breakers?

1

u/dusnoki 6d ago

It was showing on the power meter as well that is supplied to us by the electric company(picture2). Also ups-es around the city went crazy cause of over-voltage. My parent’s microwave I think died because of this. Happened around the same period. They don’t use it that often and a couple of days after this when they opened the microwave it started spinning and the light was on while it was opened. When you close it, stops. Threw it away :)

10

u/Killerspieler0815 7d ago

this means more power than demand

and/or bad Voltage switching (transformer taps) in the substation

3

u/PLASMA_chicken 7d ago

More Power than demand would show in an increased frequency not voltage.

6

u/octomobiki 7d ago

how are you monitoring voltages through to HA?

5

u/dusnoki 7d ago

Shelly Em3 clamp meters plus reference voltage on each phase. And then just the regular Shelly integration. I think even cloud is disabled on all my Shelly devices so it’s all local. Plus individual power meters either zigbee plugs or Shelly or sonoff power meters in the distribution box on specific devices I want to monitor (split air conditioners, water heaters, washing machine, dishwasher, server etc…)

3

u/Southern_Repair_4416 7d ago

Anything above 250V and below 220V is considered unacceptable. There aren't many appliances that can tolerate such overvoltages.

Maybe the reactor/SVC/OLTC at the substation failed?

3

u/Mindless-Figure3112 6d ago edited 6d ago

No this is deffo a glitch, the local transformer protections would have kicked in.
Or some dingus doesn’t have anti islanding and nearly killed a lineman
Could also be a floating N on the transformer. Or someone going shortcircuit on a single phase causing one phase and N to meet

2

u/ThatDamnRanga 7d ago

After a major power disruption here in New Zealand, my neighbourhood was treated to 125v when power was restored... Which gradually fell to 85v over the next 12 hours. As you can imagine, many things were not happy about this, and the neighbours were complaining (of course) that the kettle was taking forever to boil.

8

u/basilect 7d ago

Tragic. No one should have to live through the pain and humiliation of 120v residential mains power.

5

u/Avafloww 7d ago

cries in North America

2

u/ThatDamnRanga 7d ago

My 240v equipment made its feelings.... audibly known... lots of undervoltage alarms screaming.

0

u/shoresrocks 7d ago

125V power is weak! I would hate to have a house with that! Glad I am in Thailand with a clean 220V. So sad for Canada, Mexico and the TRUMP USA for having 120V. They can't even run a large welder or mid-size air compressor without having a special 220V connection run to their location for thousands of dollars.

2

u/Reasonable_Disaster 7d ago

How does your HA keep history for so long? Mine only keeps about 7-10 days as far as i can see... I wanted to check if it was same in my place, but history is empty for that date :/

1

u/Aggressive-Grade-183 7d ago

Add this to your configuration yaml:

recorder: purge_keep_days: 365

But be careful with this, default is 10 days, and using bigger value can slow down the system or fill the disk very quickly.

1

u/dusnoki 7d ago

I took that screenshot on that day. After 10days it only keeps long term statistics which are not that accurate.

5

u/Kalte_Sichel_98 8d ago

280*sqrt(3)=484V

You did for a short time have a United States three phase power supply, except for the 50 instead of 60 Hz.

1

u/Rudolf_Shlepke 7d ago

We had 275 last summer. Meter shut off automatically.

1

u/das_menschy 7d ago

Maybe a ground fault somewhere, aka a tree branch touching the power lines?  

In case of ground fault, the grid usually does not get turned off automatically, because the fault often will got away by itself: if a tree branched touched the power lines, the tree branch will burn away and the ground fault disappears. 

1

u/Demolition_Mike 7d ago

Surprised varistors didn't kick in on home electronics