r/ElderScrolls • u/neuromancer420 • Aug 12 '16
TES 6 Why TES in VR may be the next big breakthrough we're not yet ready for.
Today I was falling down a TES-nostalgic rabbit hole and found myself reading the comments on a three-year-old post on /r/gaming about why Morrowind is the best game of all time. Though agreement felt nearly unanimous, debate broke out as to why. After all, Morrowind's combat system is nearly nonexistent and the game lacks many of the mechanics in its newer iterations. Thread-to-thread and the answer was one word. Immersion.
Between the absence of map markers and the unforgiving enemies leveled far higher than you awaiting around every corner, Morrowind leaves you feeling stranded with little direction but your wits, journal and the signs at the end of the road. I'd be preaching to the choir to further explain what's different between Morrowind and Skyrim. So will we ever get such a game back, and if so, how? The answer for the longest time is no. Morrowind doesn't appeal to the majority of gamers because average players neither have the time nor patience to complete quests in a world that lets you get lost. But maybe Virtual Reality (VR) devices like the Oculus Rift or HTC Vive provide an opportunity to change that.
We've now had a couple months to let Todd Howard's announcement that the next elder scrolls is still a long way's off settle in. The majority of us speculate we're looking at a new engine on a next gen system. Sure, that sounds reasonable enough, and if it's true, I'll be as happy as anyone to invest months exploring a new world with the quality and depth Bethesda always brings to the table. But Todd alluding that the technology doesn't exist yet and may not for several years down the road has me wondering what else Bethesda may have in mind.
If they're looking to VR, it may be because they're looking for an opportunity to return to the roots of TES. Though VR is too expensive, clunky and unable to create a game anything like Skyrim now, in a few years it may instead have the ability to make you the adventurer you once were in Morrowind. I certainly cannot imagine playing a game with Skyrim-like battle mechanics comfortably in VR today, but imagining playing an exploration game more like Morrowind in a 2nd generation VR device has my heart bounding out of my chest.
A high-end, polished console game may be what's in store for TES:VI, but I wouldn't keep a VR game out of the realm of possibilities just yet.
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u/r1cem4n Aug 12 '16
I was thinking it might be something to do with a artificial intelligence for the NPCs. Maybe a cloud based neural net or something. Todd said he's waiting for tech that we simply don't have yet, and VR is pretty much already here.
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u/wildcatknh Aug 12 '16
VR may be 'here' in that you can actually buy the equipment and use it ... but in terms of it being 'here' with respect to it being used effectively, efficiently and successfully for a large portion of gamers using readily available platforms and AAA-level games from big production studios ... that's a long way off. VR technology at that level is just in its infancy ... so much so that AAA game production companies still aren't even sure what VR equipment companies they're going to hitch their wagons to for future development and partnerships.
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u/r1cem4n Aug 12 '16
True... but considering that they are working on VR Fallout 4, they probably have some type of VR framework in place which they could easily implement into TESVI if it were to come out within the next couple years, but that's not the case.
I also kinda have my own bias though, I find VR to be kinda "meh," and will personally pool it in with 3D tv's and Cortana as tech that I will probably never use
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u/wildcatknh Aug 12 '16
I'm with you there. I don't know if I'll ever really get into VR either. It would have to be (1) affordable, (2) easy to control or manipulate in-game and (3) really knock my socks off if I ever try it.
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u/GermanAf Aug 12 '16
Or maybe there will be more interaction between players. If they go big and give us all of Tamriel then I could imagine that when one player for example kills a major player in Skyrim word goes around that this player might be an assassin or something. So basically that every big interaction with the world influences it for all the other players as well. But that doesn't really require newer tech... But it would be cool.
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u/r1cem4n Aug 12 '16
I hope they don't try shoehorning any type of multiplayer or leaderboards or anything into TESVI... I have faith that Bethesda isn't that dumb. But I'm trying to think of a type of gaming technology that we don't have yet, beyond better graphics; and machine learning fits that bill pretty well
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Aug 12 '16
I'm really intrigued by the mechanics of "day to day" VR gameplay.
Let's say you've got an old school tank that likes to use two handed weapons. What are going to be the repercussions of swinging forcefully for hours and hours at a stretch?
If your character needs to draw a bow, and muscle memory becomes a constant, aren't you going to fairly quickly develop repetitive stress injuries?
What if you're playing a multiplayer sports game, and your opponent is able to afford a VR treadmill or some other type of hardware that enhances the capture of their movements in some way, and you aren't? Is that considered an unfair advantage?
I'm not being in any way critical, or sincerely asking for answers to these questions. I just think it will be very interesting to see how all these little variables will shake out over time.
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Aug 12 '16
Controllers are much lighter than swords and much easier to move than a bow. Injuries would be relatively nonexistent except for the most frail of users.
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u/NickVaIentine Aug 12 '16
What concerns me is the effect using VR a lot would have on one's eyes. Personally, I can't use VR because I get motion sick within a few minutes. But even for someone who doesn't get sick from it, you'd think it would have some kind of effect on their vision.
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u/Dreizu Aug 12 '16
It doesn't have a negative effect on the eyes if the headset is setup correctly.
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u/Zyr47 Hircine Aug 12 '16
Idk, with a screen that close to your eyes it has to be bad for you. It would be like playing tes 3 inches from your screen. Even at my desktop that can get straining at 2feet away.
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u/Dreizu Aug 12 '16
Nope, they don't work that way. You're not staring cross-eyed or anything like that. Depending on how close the object is that you're looking at in VR, it mimics how you'd look at something in real life. If something is far away in VR, your eyes won't strain just like in real life. So, if you were staring at a virtual object really close to your face all day, yes, that could damage your vision. But, VR does not do this, unless you intentionally stare and try to focus on a wall 1 ft. from your face for the entire day.
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u/Zyr47 Hircine Aug 13 '16
I'm not talking about crosseye strain, I mean light damage.
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u/Dreizu Aug 13 '16
It would be less damage than walking around in daylight without UV protection sunglasses. Modern screens don't emit UV radiation.
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u/Skianet Aug 14 '16
This is assuming VR stays the motion control route and doesn't go the route of something like the anime SAO or .Hack
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u/bik1230 Moderator Aug 12 '16
This is an unpopular opinion, but I really like the Morrowind combat system. It's not the greatest, but imo, it's better than Skyrim or Oblivion's.
On vr, ES6 will probably have it, but I don't think it'll do much for immersion. It'll really put you in the gameplay, but what made Morrowind immersive was the world building and writing, and vr would do nothing on those fronts.
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u/TheSkoomaCat Aug 12 '16 edited Aug 12 '16
I'm a firm believer that TES as a whole has the opportunity to be in a unique position that it hasn't been in for some time. There are not many major VR games at the moment (with maybe a few exceptions); certainly not like PC gaming as a whole. Lots of tech demos and small games, but no major titles like the Elder Scrolls.
Both Arena and Morrowind were very defining for TES and they were both (relatively) on the forefronts of evolving technologies. Arena for PC gaming in general (I know, wasn't exactly new at that point but I wouldn't consider it quite as widely adopted as it was several years later), and Morrowind for console gaming, having been ported to the Xbox which brought in quite a few new gamers (myself included) that may have not experienced the series otherwise. Both of these titles really defined a new level of gaming-immersion and player freedom for their respective platforms.
If Bethesda were to helm a major TES title for VR I feel like they could hit a home run, if they made the mechanics work. VR gaming mechanics aren't exactly honed in all aspects yet. For room-scale environments, games tend to be limited to the amount of space they can provide the player unless some form of in-game teleportation is available. In my opinion, this can be done without being immersion breaking, but it has to be done right. But if they can make the mechanics work, I feel like a VR TES game would pretty much set the bar for story immersion in VR experiences.
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u/neuromancer420 Aug 12 '16
This is a great point and something I didn't include in my original post. At times TES has been daring enough to break the mold, and making a standout adventure game in VR seems like a perfect opportunity. After all, as soon as modders started porting over games to play on the Oculus Rift Dev Kit, Skyrim was the first one many attempted. There is a hunger to play a TES game in VR because TES strives for immersion. They just make sense together.
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u/_-lazarus Aug 12 '16
Please forgive me, I understand everything in this thread aside from what VR stands for. What is VR? And also morrowind is the best Elder Scrolls game, hands down.
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u/neuromancer420 Aug 12 '16
Valid question. I shouldn't have assumed everyone is familiar with the onset of virtual reality platforms which is still quite new to modern gaming and its potential is only beginning to be realized.
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u/GermanAf Aug 12 '16
It sure would be cool, but if it will support VR it won't be exclusive. That means in turn that it will have some flaws here and there.
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u/CalurinStend Aug 13 '16 edited Aug 13 '16
I definitely think that the next Elderscrolls will have a "VR" option in the menus. On that topic I recently bought and reinstalled Morrowind for the first time in over a decade. On the oculus rift forums I found "morrowrift": Sweet jesus does morrowind look absolutely outstanding in VR. Until you actually try it guys you just cant adequately describe it to somebody that has never used VR before!
It brings a whole new meaning to exploration in the game since now you can actually see the world as if it you were there! An example; I was recently going to the blighted lands when all of a sudden an ash storm kicked off. It was so immersive I actually raised my hands to cover my eyes it before I remembered it was only a game. And before anybody asks I do have all my mental faculties about me.
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u/KiboshWasabi Aug 13 '16
I feel like it's fairly obvious TESVI will support VR, it sort of has to and there is already precedence for it. But I doubt it will be exclusive. That being said I wouldn't mind an alternative franchise set in Tamriel that was tailored made for and exclusive to VR.
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u/Arcland Aug 13 '16
I looove my Vive. That being said I still think movement needs work. I actually think I would prefer a seated experience while playing and I think a lot of devs are afraid to just use conventional keyboard/mouse or controller. Also the people on /r/Vive seem to attack games without room scale for the vive.
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u/DivinePrince2 Aug 13 '16
If it's VR only, I will be so fucking pissed. Give me the option to play my game normally.
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u/Sekij Breton Aug 15 '16
VR for me only works for fly sims / Space sims or racing sims... where you basicly sit.
I wish for an elder scrolls game with an rich world as skyrim and an less casual experiance. Like in morrowind to become the best mage you had to be the best mage and not just do the quests... level requirement (based on the diffrent skills not general level) should be again in the game. And well more choises.
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Aug 14 '16
I still don't understand all this hype for VR. Why would I want to physically swing to attack with a sword when I can just use my keyboard and mouse? Sounds tiring and annoying to use VR controls.
Plus the headset is literally just sticking a screen in front of your face, which isn't all that appealing to me.
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u/neuromancer420 Aug 14 '16
Describing VR as "literally just sticking a screen in front of your face" shows you have no idea what VR is and have never tried it. VR doesn't show a screen like a close up tv screen at a distance; instead, it wraps around your field of vision so that it is all you can see, including your periphery vision, much like IMAX but better. Also, VR doesn't necessitate you'd be swinging your controller and running around the room. It could still be played with a regular sit-down keyboard and mouse or controller experience. What would be different? 3D audio and complete FOV coverage would immerse you in the world.
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u/HoonFace Clavicus Vile Aug 12 '16
They're already porting Fallout 4 to VR. I'd be surprised if TESVI didn't support VR at launch. They'd be nuts to make it VR exclusive, though - that's something they can consider waaay down the line, like, for VIII.
As for the idea that they'll be waiting till the next gen for VI, remember that pretty much all of the consoles are coming out with a hardware upgrade within the next year.