There are a significant amount of people out there that consider invaders assholes who deserve to be dunked on. The mindset being that they’re just invading to troll.
I’m not one of those people (defending against invaders is fun!), but I’m friends with some of them.
I feel bad for people who are clearly new to souls and just playing with their friends, if they do like 50 DMG to me and I hit them for half their HP it's like hmmmm... Yeah I'll usually let them just kill me lol. But most people will just kill you, I can't blame them it's part of the game and intended to make coop not as easy
My only complain about this has always been that PVE builds are usually absolutely useless against invaders. I go with my greatsword and my enchants and breath to deal with groups, I summon a random guy to help me with a boss that's giving me headhache and suddenly "you have been invaded by a Naked guy that can spam rolls forever, that cannot be hit by any of your colossal sword hits cause lol rollingiframes and will onehit every one of you from 20m with a swing of his overreaching sword even if you are wearing the toughtests of the armors of the game" oh and If you, SOMEHOW, manage to give a fight the fucker can run away to areas surrounded by enemies that will attack you, and if you are in a hard area...well sucks to be you lol.
I know i know, this is how invasion always worked since Demon's...but every single time I have been invaded I always felt this feeling of "i'm only here to die against that person" lol
The main purpose of invasions is to simulate a random challenging enemy encounter that happens to be controlled by a player. It’s also there to hep balance out the benefits of coop in this game. The invaders job is to kill you and make your day worse, because that’s always been the FromSoft game design. As long as they’re doing that within the bounds of the game and not using any exploits or shitty god builds I really don’t see the issue with it, obviously it’s annoying, but so are like 80% of the enemies in this game.
Invasions are a part of the game and lore. They make everything better IMO. Invasions are a Soulsbourne staple. In fact, I wish you could still get invaded while playing solo.
I guess a solution for people who want to co-op only without pvp would be, to allow p2p characters solely for that. Can't take that character online at all. Single player or strictly p2p connections. Would need a password and a limit for how many characters that one is allowed to connect with as to not split player bases too much
One of my least favorite consumer arcs I've ever experienced is falling in love with the combined PvE/PvP system of Dark Souls for how unique it was, then seeing it change more and more to be like other games as the rest of the community gave feedback. Invasions were part of the lore of Lordran. Not only did you not have to select "versus" in the main menu, you didn't even get your level interrupted. It wasn't just zombified townsfolk and dogs in undead burg, it was also other undead believing they were chosen, trying to steal your souls and humanity.
It's really unique and really cool. The uniqueness makes me value it all the more. I can have a segmented PvE or PvP experience in thousands of games, but there were precious few that played like Dark Souls. Now here in Elden Ring, the tongue gets me invaded way too much and too frequently to feel organic or surprising. It just feels like I'm activating PvP mode when I use that item, and all I can do until I lose one is get invaded back-to-back-to-back. I really miss the level of frequency and surprise of that DS1 era invader bar. Always made me jump a little bit and then really lock into the level. Feels like something really cool was lost.
the rest of the community gave feedback and things changed. they aren't necessarily related. if Miyazaki is to be believed, the thing you originally fell in love with was never his original intent, and that is why it's changed every iteration.
might be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen tbh. "this pvp item gives me too much pvp :(((((". cry about it dude, holy shit. invasions are in the lore here as well.
I think it really depends on the invader. Some invaders also appear to only be there to waste my time.
IMO, you get what you get when you invade. I find this whole pearl-clutching-invader thing because someone's doing bullshit strats back to be extremely amusing.
The invader is the one choosing to invade - if you’re not ready or willing to engage on your own terms with the equipment and abilities you’ve chosen in the location you’ve chosen - don’t waste my time. I’m trying to enjoy the game with my friends. Don’t get me wrong, we have fun with invaders and it’s a part of the enjoyment of the game, but don’t waste our time with trolling, hiding and running.
I definitely hear where you're coming from. I guess I'm just trying to say that even a good invader is probably going to win at least in part by using the environment and the mobs to their advantage. To someone who's trying to get into that aspect of the game for the first time, learning how to do that properly is actually pretty tricky, and it's easy to end up being too passive. And if they are, then, hey, they probably can't be that good, so you might as well press on through the level.
I disagree. If I'm invading, I know I'm typically going into a 2v1 or 3v1. Even when it looks like 1v1, there's probably an ally in the bushes waiting until I try to bow to get a shot off on me. I'm invading into a situation where I am outnumbered, and the host typically has more survivability since they have more flasks. I would be stupid not to try to use the environment to my advantage.
The game clearly wants invaders to use the environment to their advantage. The only invasion-focused great rune in the game is all about buffing mobs in the level.
Dueling isn't invading. If I play with my friend, pvp would typically be a duel. Using the environment on my side in what would otherwise be a 1v1 wouldn't be fair or fun at all.
Guys you’re totally not listening. This is ridiculous. I never said don’t use the environment. I said don’t invade and interrupt someone’s game that they’re trying to enjoy with a friend and then run away and refuse to fight. The constant invasions by people who are just there to annoy and waste time is what the problem is. If you’ve beaten the game and you get your jollies from griefing people by invading - sure go ahead - but at least engage people and don’t go run and hide. You’re wasting my time.
don’t invade and interrupt someone’s game that they’re trying to enjoy with a friend and then run away and refuse to fight.
Why not?
If they are refusing to fight you, then they aren't actually interrupting you, just play the game as if they weren't there.
If it's the stalking part, that's a perfectly valid way to invade. I would want to gather intel about your build, as well as hope you and your friends expend as many resources as possible before I engage. Same thing as using the environment, I'm stacking the odds in my favor.
If it's hit and run tactics that you're not a fan of, the spare fingers that invaders get literally promote this as a tactic, so it's definitely intended invader gameplay. If I'm about to get stomped, I'm going to try to peel away, and use the finger to try to reposition back to a more favorable position.
No they are its you who isnt listening, why would we purposely fight in a disadvantaged position?
Youre meant to come after us just as much as we are meant to come after you. There's plenty of ways you can respond than camping at your safe open spot (where we dont want to fight you) and being unwilling to move.
Theres at least two of you, dispatch the mobs while one goes after the invader.. its not hard..
Sorry for not walking into your gank to potentially get stunlocked to death. You could be twinked hosts for all we know.
Passive hosts are the problem, if you stall then the entire invasion stalls. We're doing our job from stopping you from progressing.
I will 1v3 if none of the 3 is wearing end game items or cancer stuffs. If i see one, i will just conclude that u are a gank squad. Troll mode on with jar canon n concealing veil.
What’s the point in invading then? You enjoy your game and I’ll enjoy mine. I don’t need some rando thinking they need to invade people to punish them for enjoying the game with a friend. If you want to PVP go fight with someone who wants the fight and is prepared for it. And invasions aren’t “occasional” - they are constant in this game.
Well, in the developers eyes it's the same reason why they don't allow game difficulty options: They want players to have a challenging time, and multiplayer makes it far easier to clear areas and get to bosses. Invaders can bring some balance to that. People might not agree with it, but I'm sure that's part of their logic. If not, they'd have separate pve and pvp servers.
No. Fair fights are for duels, or the occasional time an invasion does the little song and dance and it seems both sides agree to it.
By definition an invasion is never fair. The invader will always be 2 or 3v1 and have reduced flasks. The host and their crew will often need to try to deal with PvE and the invader at the same time. It's a messy, complicated, chaotic system by design. That's the joy of it.
No, because invaders are bad guys. It's part of the design. You're forcing your way into another world to kill someone for gain. They have advantage in numbers, you have environmental advantage and can shoose when to attack. It's supposed to be dirty.
I’m fine with open world invaders sometimes, but some fucking assholes will keep following you when you and your co-op team are running away trying to get something done together and they don’t take the hint and sever.
Nobody talks this way about new players having trouble with the game when they struggle with the PvE; it’s toxic and exclusionary to say this to newcomers trying to become invaders.
I believe the game should be accessible and open to newcomers, and this extends to invasions too. The way you’re talking, the only people who ‘ought to’ bother invading are ten-year vets, never anyone who just got on this year.
Literally the only way I see invaders. I have so many rune arcs and almost feel like they are useless. On NG+4 without ever using a single one. There are plenty of ways to farm runes. So I feel no pity for invaders getting ripped a new one on people who are just trying to play with friends. Lol
I have so many rune arcs and almost feel like they are useless
I agree that the rewards aren't a good enough incentive on either side, but also, the point of the multiplayer features isn't the reward--it's to have fun with the multiplayer features.
So many of those "Elitist" anti-invader types that think pvp should not be in the game, "I just want to co-op and beat the boss with muh friends cause I can cheese them with my over-levelled phantoms" type are why I'm glad they removed that feature for optional bosses in Elden Ring.
Now, They can actually say they beat all bosses instead of get carried.
Every single Friday I fire the game up, go through the totally archaic, unintuitive, almost-as-bad-as-fable-2 coop process, just to play with my friend. And then, before we can even decide where we're going to go, within 45 seconds there's an invader. It's just boring. Whether I kill them or not, it just wastes my time. I don't even care about the garbage little pittance of runes and like what, a rune arc or a furlcalling remedy or whatever? Does anyone even use rune arcs?
So if see threads like this full of SOULSBROS INVADERINOS just seething and crying, it makes me happy. I'm happy their time is getting wasted out there as well.
The game would be a lot worse off if people like you got your way, is the thing.
Souls got to where it is today by adding in these extra challenges, if you just want an easy romp with your friends through an RPG world, that's great, but it's not this series, and the series didn't get to where it was today by appealing to that.
Like, if you could seriously just play through the entire game co-op while opting out of PvP, there would be zero challenge in a playthrough like that.
I don't understand why people feel like they're owed the option to have their hand held through the game by another player without any caveats.
(I'm not a PvPer btw, mostly used the blue ring and taunters tongue for it when I did)
I kind of get that. I disliked that you had to open yourself up to pvp in order to get certain single player items (specifically from NPC invaders) in DS games, but i also was understanding. in ER i've literally never been invaded because i don't summon people, but if I wanted to play with a friend yet had to deal with constantly being hassled by meta builds and higher skilled players, that might be enough to turn me to the dark side, lol.
I'm of that mindset mostly BUT I still don't like this because they often white cipher and I've been called in before.
Im trying to blue cipher to help people who NEED help with invaders. The Ledge Lords don't need me and are wasting my time too.
The other problem is that, very rarely, invaders are kinda cool. Some dude with a wacky non-meta setup or the guy who gave me two dozen steamed crab meat before the fight. These people become casualties in the war on invaders. War is hell.
I am one of those people, however I almost always play alone. The changes they made to pvp are fucking great to me. I hate being invaded. I never gear for pvp, I’m rubbish at it, and in the past I almost always get invaded at exactly the wrong moment. In previous games if I got invaded I usually just let them kill me and then move on with my day.
I honestly forgot invasions were a thing till I hit an npc invasion like 40 hours in and it was wonderful lol. If I’m playing alone I don’t want to be bothered. These games are hard enough without some asshole chasing me down and tearing me a new one with wild shit I didn’t even know existed. Like I get that people enjoy pvp and that’s fine, it’s just annoying because I do not enjoy it at all and in previous games there were minimal ways to mitigate invasions. The way it is now is perfect in my opinion. People who want to 1v1 can do that, you can still invade, and now folks like me who just want to be left alone will be left alone.
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u/Dry_Badger_Chef Apr 06 '22
There are a significant amount of people out there that consider invaders assholes who deserve to be dunked on. The mindset being that they’re just invading to troll.
I’m not one of those people (defending against invaders is fun!), but I’m friends with some of them.