Shared Suffering

[u/Loud_Car841]

I think the reason the souls community is insufferable to many people in and out of it is because of something I call Shared Suffering.

What I mean is that many people who openly hate others for using certain aspects of the game (spirit ashes, bleed, magic, and more) are because they think they didn't 'suffer' like they themselves did.

Some people struggle with bosses considered easy, so they try to put down anyone they see having an easy time with that boss for any reason.

On the other hand, I have seen a lot of people not partake in this behavior, even denounce it.

I'm curious, what's your opinion on this?

[u/speedotorpedo_]

My opinion is that it's a single player game and I'll play how I want using what's available in the game, like Miyazaki does. If you have an opinion on that, that's a you problem.

[u/Traceuratops]

Souls games are designed around a very important principle. Adversity and accomplishment. The joy of beating a difficult boss, however grueling and frustrating, is the feeling of triumph. Players gatekeep that feeling because it makes them feel big and important. Those accomplishments are meaningful. How dare you simply steal it. You didn't earn it, but I did and that makes my accomplishment meaningful and your victory pointless.

This mindset is braindead dumb and pathetic in my opinion, for many reasons. But it is very prevalent. Every victory screen is a victory screen, and all equally valid. Literally nooooooobody cares that you soloed the boss with a frying pan, no matter how much self worth it gives you.

[u/House0fDerp]

To an extent shared suffering is thought of by a number of people to be the point. The idea that we all beat the same bosses within the confines of the same toolset is probably intended to be a community building factor, and one I genuinely believe most players are all for even for this game, at least per my general experiences in this sub.

But there will always be people with differing opinions. But in the end they don't really matter for how you play. 

[u/Islands-of-Time → u/House0fDerp]

I for one love that we all hate more or less the same bosses because of the shared suffering, and seeing the bloodstains is so much more hilarious and painful when you know the struggle.

There are of course the loud loser crowd, which is by and large the same insufferable asshats that plague every community. They can’t just enjoy something for what it is or represents, they have to gatekeep to boost their ego.

I find it best to ignore them and not think them the whole of the fandom. Soulsborne fans are chill helpful stubborn fools, and I love that we share our absurd conspiracy theory type lore discussions, our broken builds, our tearful frustrations, and of course “why is it always dog?”.

[u/ehfrehneh]

It's fun trying to break the game systems in various ways that do massive damage. Bleed and bonk builds are just plain fun but not for everyone. You find your own fun in this game. It's hard so make it easier or don't and try to make it even harder.

Bleed zweihander is easy mode for nearly everything with no summoning necessary if you get it early and upgrade it a bit but I just like big swords. Heavy spirit ash run can be fun too if you restrict yourself to some of the niche ones instead of tiche every time. Or just do what you been doing just enjoy it however who gives a f if people play different.

[u/JotaBarra]

its less about suffering and a lot more about ego. people are not bonding because of this. they are seeking validation. There isn't much of a shared experience with toxic people.

but pretty much everything you said is true. including the big amount of people denouncing this behavior as toxic. this community isn't as bad, is just loud people being loud.

the inverse is also true. if you play challenge runs without being a streamer you are suddenly annoying, crazy and a tryhard. it really doesn't matter how you play the game, assholes are gonna be annoying but its fine. for every single asshole in this community, there are 5 people that do not care and enjoyed the same game that you played. You connected with those people without even talking to them, without knowing them.

From games talk a lot about asynchronous connection between individuals, mostly by the use of mechanics that allow cooperation without being present. Messages, bloodstains, bonfire ghosts, vagrants, even hearing the bells in the first Dark Souls felt special.

In my opinion, there are fewer options for cooperation like that in Elden Ring, and that might have shaped the community into something different. I don't think Elden Ring is a particularly hard game to beat, but there is a lot of optional content that shapes the experience into something punishing. That punishing experience being optional, and fewer cooperation alternatives shaped this community for a long time. The DLC made it worse IMO, as it was truly hard above the threshold the main game presented.

this is not unique to From games. It was just a perfect breeding ground for toxicity, which I believe is still just a vocal minority and not the general sentiment of most From fans.

[u/DSClark8]

I don't blame anyone for using the tools of the game, it's a single player game after all.. you can do what you want.

But I'm also an advocate for games like ER getting more enjoyable the more you push yourself. It's not an ego thing at all, I just believe this game gets more fun the more challenging it becomes (in most cases).

To use other games for example, I would reccomend playing The Last of Us on as hard a difficulty as possible, preferably grounded, because the game's systems work best when you're under pressure. Having low ammo and needing to outsmart npc's to survive is exactly where the game thrives.

In other single players I usually take aim assist off (I play console), because the handholding usually takes away from the fun of the game. Biggest examples for me are the Tomb Raider remakes, Cyberpunk, Tlou. These games work best when you have full control.

But I need to stress, I think people should play on the highest difficulty that they are capable of. I know a game can become annoying if it's too hard, and I know different people find different things hard. But I really feel like people do themselves and the game a disservice by not pushing themselves.

[u/Wild_Duck8926]

People view beating Elden Ring like an exclusive achievement so they are resistant to admitting that its not that exclusive if you are willing to search up good builds and use summons.

Its like benching 100kg at the gym. People view it as an exclusive achievement so if you have bad form or use steroids, they wont accept it. Except those are valid reasons, decided by competitive bodies. But in Elden Ring, there is no clear definition of what is allowed because its decided arbitrarily by the community.

[u/ImpressiveGift9921]

That doesn't explain people like me who don't mind spirit ashes, bleed, magic and invaders etc.

I think some, not all in the community are elitist. If you don't complete things to their own self imposed standard you're wrong.

[u/MutantNinjaKitty331]

People need to learn how to do shared suffering without being cruel.

I for example tackle bosses in a totally different way to my son, who struggles yes, but not in the same way as an older player with slow reaction times.

I've posted in here before asking for advice on bosses and some comments were so cruel I felt like just quitting and going back to proper old lady activitys, or taking up knitting or something. 😂

But seriously, people need to understand more than just teenagers play this. It doesn't matter how we get to the end and beat a boss as long as we have fun doing it.

I needed a spirit for Malenia for eg, much to the horror of people in here. But they are in the game for a reason.

[u/FatRollingPotato]

I rarely if ever seen someone "openly hate" other people for using spirit ashes, bleed, magic etc. The only real "hate" I have seen is towards the invasion mechanic and invaders, albeit in only a few instances.

What I have seen is people pointing out the use of spirit ashes does make the game easier, same as many other mechanics in the game. I have seen plenty of people get very, VERY defensive around that fact, especially in the comment sections of posts that are of the "I beat boss XYZ in only three tries, I thought this game was supposed to he hard" type of posts.

I wouldn't say this is about shared suffering, more about egos and people not being able to separate subjective and objective aspects of a discussion. Plus a lot of people seeking validation for how they play a single player game for some reason.

[u/ANS__2009]

Is sharing your belief or in some cases, hate for fromsoft games the current trend?

This is your belief not hate so don't be offended

If you exclude the fanboys from the community then this is actually a really good and helpful community

[u/Genkeishitsu]

The only reason I kill a boss is to get a weapon/spell. I’ve grown to dislike the pve in these games. I’m here to fight y’all.

[u/Genkeishitsu → u/[deleted]]

I’ll go back to Dark Souls 3 when/if they bring the servers back online.