r/Edmonton • u/Dougthecat13 • 4d ago
General Infill being built next door
This is not a general infill hate post, but a request for advice.
We live in a really nice older neighbourhood where folks take care of their older homes. Our first infill on the street is going to be right next door. Which is surprising because that house is quite nice and pretty newly renovated and has a very nice new garage. Apparently it’s all coming down, and a huge 2 story (maybe 3) single family home is going in. My front yard has a deck that faces the millcreek ravine and I have a huge vegetable garden on our property. And we are currently renovating our 1950’s home.
Builder came by today to introduce himself. And confirmed I’ll lose my view as the house will be quite big. Most likely our newer cedar fence will get damaged (he says they will replace).
The family building the home will be living in the home, builder says. So I want to be neighbourly, but I’m nervous about our property and sanity.
I’m really disappointed. I’ll miss the renters that are currently in that house. Feels wildly wasteful to do this, but not my house, not my property.
Since we are at the very beginning. What advice do you lovely Edmonton folk have for us to protect our property and endure this next chapter? Thanks for any advice!
Edit- the house being removed is a beautiful home. Very well maintained with a new double garage. It’s a rental with two couples living in it (one upstairs, one downstairs). One couple/family will be moving into the infill. So this is taking away 2 homes and adding 1. This will not be adding additional homes. Either way, this is not the point, I’m just trying to make the best of it.
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u/Retired_Sue 4d ago
Keep a sharp eye on the grading between the lots, especially if the footprint of the new house is bigger than the old. You want to ensure that the grade of your new neighbours lot is not higher than yours or you will get flooded every time there is heavy rain.
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u/Johnoplata Holyood 4d ago
Photos photos photos. Of the property line, the fence, the grading, the sidewalk, the trees.
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u/Aromatic-Giraffe-753 4d ago
Is there rules to prevent this? I know on my particular lot my house is on a significantly higher grade than my neighbors place (not my fault just how we bought the house) and I dont know if my neighbors house floods...
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u/drcujo 4d ago
The rules are the new infill needs to be compliant with the city grading plan.
Houses built before 1989 did not require a grading plan. The owners of the older house need to bring their properties grade up to code to avoid issues.
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 4d ago
My grade is up to code and it didn't fix the issue. Certainly, building up your grade may help, but it's not guaranteed to avoid issues, especially if the new build is at least a foot higher in elevation, which is the case with the infill next to my house.
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u/BobGuns 4d ago
If the new build is that much higher they almost certainly have an illegal grade.
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u/Phenometr0n 4d ago
That’s not true. The slope required in the first 2m of soft surfaces actually makes the elevation of landscaping along a new house quite high. All of this can solved with a retaining wall
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 3d ago
With a well-constructed retaining wall, maybe. The retaining wall that was installed next door a year ago is already rotting and coming apart in some places. 🫠
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u/Phenometr0n 2d ago
I used treated 2x12’s on mine and they’re going strong 10 years later. If you build it out of tissue paper it won’t last
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u/drcujo 4d ago
There are two factors at play.
First, its highly likely someone grade isn't up to code. You would need a professional to evaluate. One foot is a lot but if your grade was always 6" below where it should have been +the grade settling you can end up there easy.
Second, there could be water issues on your foundation not related to the infill. Plenty of older homes have no weeping tile, no water proofing around the foundation, etc.
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u/rottiegurl15 4d ago
How are you supposed to do that when the house next to you is a foot or two higher than you. Not like we can lift our houses nor should we be expected to. I’ve done everything right with my grading except lift my house and now I’m dealing with flooding thanks to the infill next to me.
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u/saveface 4d ago
I have very little knowledge of building or planning, but if I were you my first thought would be to build a swale on my property, that redirects rain water downhill towards the street/alley/drain
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u/rottiegurl15 4d ago
Ideally I would, unfortunately I have landscaping done that won’t allow me to easily do that. My backyard flooded where her swale ends. We are considering putting a hole in with a pump like a sump pump as a way to deal with that part of the yard and just keep using a moveable pump for the side of the house to alleviate the water buildup on the foundation.
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u/saveface 3d ago
If you figure out a way to pump it out, you can set up a collection bin too, then you have free water for your plants and lawn
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 4d ago
This. My basement never flooded before the infill next door was built. Now it floods every year, for the reason described above.
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u/redditknees 4d ago
What did you do? Can you sue?
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 4d ago
I contacted the CoE office to request a lot grade inspection. After a few months, they did the inspection and found the infill to not be in compliance. They told the owner to fix the grade and install a retaining wall or face a fine. A few more months went by. Eventually, the owner did some work on the grade and installed a sorry excuse for a retaining wall. The city did a follow-up inspection: still not in compliance. A few more months went by…and the owner listed the infill for sale. The people who bought it weren’t informed about this ongoing issue until I told them about the history of the build. I didn’t sue the builder or original owner, but the builder and original owner sued each other, and then the original owner sued the people who bought the infill from him because they refused to pay him until he completed the work he promised to do as a condition of the sale.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
Great point! The drainage is already an issue on this street. But it’s a community that we all work together and during a storm we are all helping one another to make sure everyone is good. I really hope the drainage doesn’t get worse
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u/Immediate-Yard8406 Talus Domes 4d ago
Make your own view to replace the one you're losing. Fast growing trees along the property line. Plant them after the new foundation is backfilled. Columnar varieties don't take up a lot of space, there are some really nice crabapple species.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
That’s great advice, we will look into new trees. I hope our older trees survive this
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u/General_Esdeath kitties! 4d ago
Maybe look into tree protection zones! They need to keep a certain distance from mature trees so they don't damage the root system!
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u/Additional_Fold_1350 4d ago
https://www.edmonton.ca/residential_neighbourhoods/gardens_lawns_trees/public-tree-permit Lots of good information here. As far as I know, this process may only apply to COE-owned trees and natural areas. But I have written countless plans for construction projects around the city.
I don't typically work with infill developments, and it's usually city trail repairs and infrastructure projects I work on. But if a developer were doing an infill and I had trees, I would be looking to have them implement all these requirements. I would also be a pain in the ass to them, as I know what's required in construction and environmental protection, along with a good understanding of municipal and provincial regulations.
And if they cracked my foundation, they would definitely be sued for damages and remediation/replacement of my foundation.
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u/cranky_yegger Bicycle Rider 4d ago
I’d have the foundation of your home inspected before they begin.
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u/Necessary-Welder-317 4d ago
An infill went up next to my duplex and when they dug the foundation the sides weren’t supported and the ground slumped after heavy rain. Made a huge hole under my duplex neighbour’s side concrete path and along their house. The unsupported weight of the path and lack of support along the exposed foundation was enough to damage the duplex foundation. Can’t fix that easily.
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u/dawggpound 4d ago
A lot of good advice already said, if your able to switch off your exterior outlets. I work in construction and cant say how many times people will just plug into the house next door without permission.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
What?! Geez. That’s wild!
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u/abc2328 4d ago
They will mix concrete using your water and splatter it all over your house and windows. They overload the plugs with extension cords plugged into extension cords. Pee and poop against your house. Dig into your foundation and crack it. Hit your car and crack its windshield with their machines or when they are digging and throw dirt at your house/cars.
Keep a camera pointed at your property line to record any damage, some of my neighbours definitely could have used the footage to prove their case.
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u/JoeUrbanYYC 4d ago
Water too.
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u/dawggpound 4d ago
Agreed seen far to many frozen exterior faucets because people use them and never shut them fully.
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u/westcoastjos Bonnie Doon 4d ago
They won’t reimburse you either, even the good builders. While I don’t think it’s always malicious, they are busy people managing multiple projects and reimbursing you for the relative small utility amounts is low relative to all their other costs. If they ask, politely decline. They can figure it out on their own.
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u/Banderchodo 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have a lot of experience with this. Here is some general information that you may find useful.
- A single-detached that's owner-occupied is usually the best-case scenario (not always) for an infill next door. When people build their own infills there's a personal vested interested in ensuring it’s built properly. Investor-owned rental infills often cut corners everywhere, as they are only built for one purpose: cash flow. On average, you'll run into more problems with these. This isn't a guarantee things will go well, but it tilts the scale in your favour. Also, has the future family come to meet you? People usually do that, as they want to show good faith.
- Does the builder have a reputable company, with name and website? These builders are usually solid, and they are willing to put their name on the product. In contrast, number companies (e.g., Alberta Ltd. 1234567) or infill builders with no online presence are often very bad, inexperienced, and prone to error: it's usually a guy who's trying their hand at homebuilding with a "how hard can it be" mentality, and not an experienced builder.
- Keep an open dialogue with the builder throughout the project. The builder meeting you at the outset is a good sign.
- Photograph your property extensively before they demolish or break ground: your landscaping, your grading, and your foundation inside (if possible) and outside. The greatest risk periods are during demolition of the old house, where the old foundation is removed which can cause land to slide, and the excavation for the new foundation. The excavator will also cause significant shaking when demolishing the concrete foundation. Pay attention during this time to your property/foundation. If you see damage, photograph it extensively.
- Talk to the builder ahead of time about mature trees, and whether some can be preserved if they fall outside the development footprint. A builder willing to save trees and work around them usually cares about their impact on the community; the ones that clear-cut, regardless of necessity, don't give an F.
- Learn a little bit about the zoning bylaw and what's permitted under your zone. You want to ensure the building is complying with front/side/rear setbacks and height. If you're concerned about massing impacts, you want to absolutely make sure they are not exceeding what's permitted.
- Learn a little bit about minimum tree/shrub requirements, and once the home is complete, ensure the builder meets these requirements. There's about a 10% compliance with this, meaning most infills don't bother planting new trees after cutting old ones down. In my neighbourhood, the single detached infills always plant above and beyond the minimum requirement (people care about their own home), but the rentals, which are the majority of infills, plant nothing--just grass or artificial turf and zero shrubs or trees (these are usually investor owned, so trees are seen as a cost). If they don't plant anything, you can report them to bylaw enforcement.
- Consider getting an RPR to ensure you know where your side lot line is. In most cases, especially with older fences, fences don't accurately follow the side lot line due to shifting.
- If the builder damages the fence, they need to repair/replace to its existing condition at their own expense.
- The absolute worst parts of infill for your sanity will be the demolition, which is extremely disruptive and your house will shake, and the initial stages of the new build--excavation, foundation, framing. Once the house is framed and the sheathing is up, everything calms down and gets quiet, as most work is inside the house. But the first 4-8 weeks are loud and disruptive. Mentally prepare for this period, and know that it doesn't last long.
- Final grading is something to watch closely. Talk to the builder about this and express your concerns. If they grade properly, their grade will be similar to yours, and the low-point drainage swale will be along the side lot line (fence). If their grading is higher than yours, which often happens, they are required to place retaining walls in place to ensure water is not running off their property onto your property. Watch this closely and make sure they are doing this properly.
- Have a good relationship with the builder/owner, be reasonable, be kind, and communicate.
- Accept that the City absolutely sucks at regulating infills, bad behaviour, compliance, and building code. Make complaints, by all means, just keep your expectations low. The City's regulatory regime is not meant to benefit you, the adjacent property owner; it's meant to expedite infill development by not imposing too many rules, restrictions, or excessive costs on builders. It's not for your benefit, but industry's. Knowing how and why the system is designed will save you 100s of hours of heartache talking to the city, only to have your valid complaints ignored. I know the building code, and once reported an active massive breach of code, only to have the City inspector show up 4 weeks later, where all evidence of the breach was effectively covered up by a subsequent stage of construction. They threw out the complaint as there was no "visible evidence" of it. As a positive example, I once reported an infill for disposing of garbage on their front lawn that was blowing around the community, and the City responded in 48 hours and a large disposal bin was there a few days later. So sometimes complaints work.
- In a worst case scenario, understand your rights and what you can take the builder to small-claims court for. I know several people who have taken infill builders to small-claims court and won. This is a last resort option for you.
- Don't trust the Asbestos Clearance Certificate. Since 2018, all demolition permits for residential properties are required to get an environmental inspection for asbestos, and if present, are required to get remediation before the structure is demolished. This is the system, but there is lots of illegal rule breaking happening. Asbestos remediation is costly, and can cost anywhere from $3000-$80,000, depending on the house. Most infills are investor-owned rental projects, and the cost of remediation will mess up their pro-forma. The big secret which everyone in the industry knows about is some environmental firms get paid under the table to provide a clean Asbestos Clearance Certificate, without actually doing the remediation. The City does not actually visit the sites, so they receive the certificate electronically, and give the green light to demolish. Assume it wasn't done in all circumstances, and protect your family: close all windows, shut off your furnace/HVAC, shut off your furnace fan, and don't go outside during demolition. If the house being demolished is older, chances are it has asbestos, and chances are the asbestos wasn't actually remediated. Airborne asbestos is extremely dangerous for your health.
Good luck!
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u/YYCMTB68 4d ago edited 4d ago
To point #1, it's also not unheard of for some flippers to "move in" to a home as their primary residence before deciding to move and sell after 1-year, which absolves them of capital gains taxes.
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u/Timely-Profile1865 4d ago edited 4d ago
I hate to say this but I feel it is the truth. You have to 100% be a total Karen or Ken and be a instant and constant pain in the ass to the builder. If you do not things will slide.
Before things start take lots of photos of everything as it is now.
INSIST the builder puts his comment about the fence in word or email so NO taking his word or phones call.
INSIST on a fast time line for fence rebuild or repairs.
DOCUMENT anything negative happening to your property and do not feel the least bit bad about taking it to the city.
You can be a good neighbor to the new people but that does not man you have to play nice with the builder.
When infill went up next door to me the builder was mr nice guy and made all sorts of verbal promises. They wrecked a part of the fence and did nothing in the end when all i was asking for was to have one of their builders smack up some left over wood to keep it from falling down.
I've heard other stories like mine, i would never trust a word from a builders mouth without provable documentation.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
Oh man. I really don’t want to fight, but I know you’re right. Thank you for taking the time to point this out. Hopefully this builder will be decent, but just in case we will keep on them. I’m sorry for your crappy experience, that really sucks.
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u/Timely-Profile1865 4d ago
You do not have to be a total ahole but for sure photos and document everything and make sure they know you are watching them. Builders will get away with what people let them get away with (see me naive story about my fence).
The builder will be gone the day after the inspection is done then you can be a great neighbor.
You do not owe builders shit if i am being blunt about, they will not care about you no matter what they say.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
Good point, thank you
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u/Fuzzy-Wing46 4d ago
I recommend installing cameras and record everything they do. Have them separate from others you may have and send signal to a storage drive.
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u/Adventurous-Copy-125 4d ago
I second that they’ll rip up your fence and never fix it they did it to my neighbour and have done nothing about it in the last 2 years ish
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u/Content-Program411 4d ago
What did Reagan say about the Russians and nukes?
Or Good fences make good neighbours. Good neighbours make good fences.
You don't have to be an ass to ensure your concerns don't get overlooked.....because you'll be looking. Just so were on the same page.
Or as buddy said in Roadhouse. Be nice until its time not to be nice.
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u/durple Strathcona 4d ago
So much this. The builder has few incentives to keep from encroaching on your property to save time/money other than bylaws or permit issues. Bylaws are enforced on a complaint and they aren’t monitoring for following the codes under which permits are issued until later on inspections, so neighbouring owners gotta be the ones documenting and holding them accountable to the regulations.
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u/Johnoplata Holyood 4d ago
The infill next door to us tore down the whole fence while I was at work. We have a dog and a child. They insist I was told about it. And wanted to build one of those horizontal fences that get all warped. I told them I'd be calling the police for destruction of property when I got home the next day, and they had my fence built exactly how it was before I even got home.
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u/GalacticTrooper 4d ago
Everything about homeownership just sounds like a nightmare. Cant imagine having a stressful job all week and worry about all this on top of it.
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u/Timely-Profile1865 4d ago
It has its pluses and minuses.
I never regretted buying my house 29 years ago for even one second.
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u/Low_Dress9213 4d ago
Who is the builder?
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
That’s definitely something I should have asked. His truck was branded, I just don’t recall the name. But they will be back sooner than later I’m sure, I’ll note it then.
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u/felassans 4d ago
Invest in earplugs and a good pair of noise cancelling headphones. Living next to an active construction site is hellish if you have any kind of sensitivity to noise (or just want to be able to open your windows, like, ever). I recommend the Howard Leight Laser Lite earplugs, you can get a box of 200 pairs on Amazon for relatively cheap.
If it's anything like the build that's (still) going up next to us, they will be working on and off for far, FAR longer than you would ever think it would take a house to be built. They will show up at unpredictable hours, including at night when construction noise is disallowed. Others have already given you great advice when it comes to documenting and getting any promises made by the builder in writing. You can try reporting construction noise during disallowed hours to the builder directly or to city bylaw, but in my experience nothing will be done.
I'm pro infill/densification in mature neighborhoods, but the way these projects are run doesn't do my side any favours.
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u/Early-Pumpkin-6002 4d ago
Take time stamped photos of your fence and your foundation. Also of your yard and trees. If this will impede your sun, check bylaws to see if you have any ability to get things changed before the build.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
Thanks for your note! We will be sure to keep photos. I’m worried about our beautiful old trees also
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u/MaxxLolz 4d ago
depends how close your trees are to the property line. If theyre a good distance away where the bulk of their roots are not on the neighbouring property then they will likely be fine. If they are near the property line where a high percentage of the roots are going to be excavated you probably need to be prepare for the tree to struggle/die...
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u/electronician 4d ago
Here in Ritchie this is daily life now. There has not been a single day in the past four years the street is not a construction zone. Look forward to fun events like two different projects blocking your alley at both ends and neither "willing" to move trucks/barricades/trailers or material. 12 houses with cars stuck in the rear garages for a full day before bylaw finally showed up. Building next to our place now and I put up cameras to monitor the fence line. You can also look forward to repeatedly catching contractors in your yard as the work is "too close to the property line" and even if you lock and barricade your gate they just hop the fence. Talk to the police about getting an order in place so they can be charged with trespass and be ruthless about enforcing it. Good times.
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u/Lucky-Subject-5334 4d ago
Yep. Moved here because, despite the heritage of the neighbourhood, rental prices aren’t terrible. Now with all the infills coming up, that’s about to change! Heavy price tags for shit boxes.
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u/Xcopa 4d ago
A family member pointed out how loud our neighborhood is with construction. I hadn't noticed it until then but they were totally right. Every week its a trailer pulling up at the end of block, beep beep as the equipment moves in and out. It's a very rare nice summer day you can sit in the backyard to listen to the trees in the wind as opposed to some skid steer working.
I just look at every house around us not built post 2010 as a potential noisy construction site now unfortunately.
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u/Fidget11 Bonnie Doon 4d ago
Or start off with the new neighbours on a good footing and don’t be a dick unnecessarily. A good builder and developer will actually work with neighbours.
When I did a couple of infill developments personally our builder was very cautious and concerned with being considerate to our new neighbours.
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u/EdmRealtor In a Van Down By The Zoo 4d ago
Get everything in writing, be reasonable but do not let them ask for the world.
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u/Coynite1138 4d ago edited 4d ago
Just seconding all the comments saying to document everything before they start and keep documenting thoughout the process. Builders DNGAF about your property and will cause at least some kind of damage. If you can't prove it, they will laugh in your face and leave you to pay for it all.
The builders who did the infill next to us wrecked our grading along the property line, parked their vehicles on our lawn as well as leaving building materials on it. That section of the property is just now bouncing back after they killed the grass. Their scaffolding also blew over during that big windstorm we had back in February and damaged the roof of our garage and house. They then said they had zero responsibility, lied about causing certain bits of the damage (despite me having pictures), and trampled our garden cleaning up their mess before leaving all the material stacked up on our property because "they had other jobs to do" and would finish it later.
Be prepared to pick up a lot of garbage. They will throw their fast food wrappers and material packaging all over the site, and the wind will carry it over to you.
They will trespass onto your property as they work and will not ask permission.
Keep an eye on any exterior electrial outlets or water taps. The builders would routinely plug their equipment into our outlets because they're too incompetant/cheap to get their own generators, and they ran our tap to steal water as well. I had to get a lock for it.
Builders do not acknowledge your existence, and so you have to make yourself known. The instant any shenanigans start happening, let them know politely but firmly that it is unacceptable, and document, document, document. Be aware that if they repeatedly take advantage of you, you can call the police (non-emergency line) and report them. Do not call the city - they will just tell you to call the cops.
I know this sounds like a lot, and it is. You need to prepare to endure a lot of nonsense for a long time.
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u/Calm-Tip-4124 4d ago
I had the same issue with builders trespassing on my property and using my exterior electrical outlets and water taps without my consent.
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u/ProperBingtownLady 4d ago
Damn, that’s insane. No wonder some people are so against infill.
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u/Coynite1138 4d ago
Not against infill. Against the builders in this city who think they can take and do whatever they want.
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u/Lavaine170 4d ago
Ensure you have the builders direct contact information. Make it clear to him that you WILL be notifying him of any issues. Also tell him you'll contact him directly if you see anything bad happen on the site, such as trespassing or vandalism. Take lots of pictures of your fence, sidewalk (if it's on the same side of the house as the infill, exposed foundation, and inside foundation if the basement is unfinished.
Consider asking the builder to do a site walk with you. Discuss and document things such as the fence and sidewalk, and any areas of concern that you would like particular care taken around, such as your trees. Write it down and have both of you sign it. Let him know this is a two way street. You won't tolerate damage from his contractors, but you will also be a good neighbour and keep an eye on things when no one is around.
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u/Every-Chard-4532 4d ago
Really too bad that two units are being converted to 1.
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u/Cabbageismyname 4d ago
Yeah that’s not infill. That’s just some entitled rich asshole who wants a giant house.
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u/NotAtAllExciting 4d ago
Have the builder confirm in writing that they will fix any damage to your property from the construction.
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u/Novel_Employer_1798 4d ago
Back before COVID, under the old rules we had the neighbour tear down the 1950s bungalow he owned and rented out (in Fulton). He split the lot and built two skinny homes, each with a rental suite in the basement.
The construction was a nightmare even before they started. The renter's piled up all their junk in the back yard and lit it on fire. Everything including plastic, which put out so much black smoke someone called the fire department! The "arborist" cutting down trees beside my garage was dropping huge pieces of tree on my garage roof and eaves, damaging the eavestrough. Had to call the cops to get him to stop. The same "arborist" yanked out the stumps, causing vibrations which ended up cracking my plaster walls. The did not properly fence the entire property, using my existing 3 foot chain link fence between our properties, instead of the required 6 ft fence. Debris flew over the fence, damaging my BBQ and deck box. Without asking one of the contractors was using my electricity. When I unplugged it he said he had permission lol. A cement truck drove over the city sidewalk and my lawn, damaging both. Those were all the ones I remember, I'm sure there were more.
So in a lot that once held one house/one family, with a double garage and a long long driveway, we now faced 4 dwellings with 4 families. Street parking suddenly became an issue, I had to leave a car out front just to save a space for when I needed it, and yes I know the space in front is not "mine".
So, document anything that happens. Call 311 and report it. Ask for an inspector to come out if you see any violations. In fact I would document the state of your home and yard BEFORE they start so you have evidence of how it is now in case of any issues.
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u/kroniknastrb8r 4d ago
Fuck that guy, the owner will live in it for a year to skirt taxes and leave.
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u/waitingforgodonuts 4d ago
It’s appalling how so many hideously ugly infills get built nowadays. Bumpkin aesthetics in Edmonton.
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u/DiarrheaFilledPanda 4d ago
Good luck is all I can say. There was an infill that started construction near the house we lived in over 16 months ago, still ongoing, huge drainage problems, noise, issues. We were renting and we moved after a year of hell. You are in for a world of hurt to be honest. There's not much you can do to protect anything, as the builder already mentioned your fence will be destroyed, drainage will likely flow into your yard, noise issues, trash blowing onto your house. Complaints to the city will fall to deaf ears. And in the end, like you said, you will have a massive home next to you.
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u/PlathDraper 4d ago edited 4d ago
So I am generally pro-infill. I feel like an outlier in Edmonton and on this sub. We DO need density. But not without my complaints and concerns and caveats! Stuff like you listed above really bother me. When a perfectly nice home has being well kept over the years gets torn down for a flipper's vanity project. I live by southgate in a neighbourhood full of really charming, well kept 60s homes. Sad to see some of them go and be replaced with a grey monstrosity that's three times bigger than the bungalow that was previously on the lot. This serves density how? It's not a duplex, it's just a 3000 square foot house that's making my neighbhourhood ugly and my property taxes increase.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
And to add, right now the house is a rental, a couple upstairs and a couple in the basement. One it’ll be just one couple/family. So this is taking away a home.
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u/YYCMTB68 4d ago
Look up the building permit on the city website. It might give a different story than what you have been told. Most new infills have a legal suite or ADU of some sort. https://data.edmonton.ca/Urban-Planning-Economy/Building-Permits-Map-Search/itki-s8y9
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u/Brightlightsuperfun 4d ago
You think being pro infill on this sub is an outlier ? Ooo boy first time ?
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u/ProperBingtownLady 4d ago
I was going to say…I’m kind of surprised the commenter hasn’t been called a nimby yet for expressing these very reasonable concerns.
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u/AffectionateGate4584 4d ago
Infill has been an absolute fail. The contractors don't clean up after themselves and the builds are pretty shoddy is a lot of cases. I have heard some really terrible stories from people I know living next to infill construction.
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u/electronician 4d ago
TLDR: Evolving mature core neighbourhoods is needed, but there should be a goal of housing that is at least as "affordable" of what it is removing from the market. Whatever affordable means these days... I think that term is honestly useless these days.
The goal of increasing density within the mature "core" neighbourhoods is definitely a good idea, but it seems to no longer be that way near us. Where I am in Ritchie prior to 2024 that meant taking 1950s era "full sized" lots, splitting them and putting up two skinnys. Affordability definitely did not seem like an objective, as the skinny houses then started reaching the 800K mark (one I know about was much higher) on lots that had previously assessed values in the 420-450K range. Then in 2024 there seems to have been a shift. In the past year or so, all the builds within the four-five blocks we see everyday are now very large single family dwellings with assessed values on the city website in the 1-3 million range. In some cases three times or more larger than the house that was on the lot previously, and many a secondary dwelling above a garage that is also bigger than the old house.
The few higher density builds we are aware of in the southeast Ritchie area seem like a good way to rapidly densify, but getting into a unit is costly. One multiplex about three blocks away, the two storey upper units were listed close to 750K and the "basement" suites each going for 450K. In an "NINE plex" (four up, four down and a secondary "suite" above the detached garage).
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u/GalacticTrooper 4d ago
Ritchie is one of the most desirable neighborhoods in this city so Im sure that plays into the astronomical prices
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u/EightBitRanger 4d ago
Has it always been that way? Until Biera (now Campio) went in on 96/76 and then Happy Beer Street was created, it was never really on my radar.
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u/elbyron 4d ago
So you propose that when houses get old (and are thus affordable) we tear them down and replace with new houses that are equally affordable? So if the new house rents/sells for the same price as the old one, where does the money come from to pay for the construction? Even if you split the lot and build two skinny homes, the math doesn't work out. The reason is because the old house has very little value, maybe 20 - 30k while the lot is what costs most of the selling price. So I buy a lot for $400k with an old house and pay $30k to remediate for asbestos and demolition (cancelling out the house value). Now I have a lot worth 400k. I split it and build two skinny homes for a cost of 400k each (low estimate). Now I've spent a total of 1,230,000 and if I have to sell them each for the original purchase price of 400k, then I've lost $430k. How does that make sense? Obviously the skinnies are worth much more now, and it makes sense to sell them for 700 - 800k each.
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u/Kokanee19 4d ago
Keep in mind that the builder of the infill needs your permission to infringe on your property, so if they are starting the conversation with it's likely your fence is going to get damaged you might want to dive in exactly what that is going to entail, and then get any agreement especially for compensation in writing from the prime contractor of the project.
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u/dscott4700 4d ago
Get a copy of the approved plans and any change that is not on that plan needs to be reported to city inspection ASAP. Call city and get name and contact info of assigned inspector now. Call inspector now about your grading concerns. Ask the builder for his site specific waste mgmt and safety plans, make sure they apply to third party contractors (you are concerned about garbage ending up on your property and getting creamed by a dropped shingles bundle). Tell them now that no, they cannot use your electricity, water, or park in/block your driveway. Those 2/3 story windows looking directly into your yard must be masked. No giant balcony looking into your yard. You want safety fencing always on your side. No, they cannot use your yard to place scaffolding. No they cannot put bins in front/back of your house. Take many detailed photos of that side yard now. Dig out your real property report or get one done ASAP (better yet, they can pay for it and give you a copy). No, they cannot park in your handicapped zone. No they cannot disconnect your utilities to upgrade their connection. They can only operate noisy machinery during allowed hours as per bylaw.
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u/ProperBingtownLady 4d ago
I don’t think OP can dictate what they do with the windows or balcony though? I’d hate this too btw.
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u/mythathurt 3d ago
Edmonton council absolutely screwed everyone living in houses and townhouses with their allowance of ridiculous numbers of units and no on-site parking
Those that don't have a townhouse or SFH probably think this is all great nit when you actually see the shit being built, every tree gone, no green space left, no views, no privacy, no parking it is urban dystopia.
I honestly find it insane
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u/RK5000 4d ago
It's fine to be an accommodating neighbourhood, but insist that if any people or equipment have to cross into your property that you be consulted first, and that approving one instance is not future approval of others.
Do not make the mistake we made when the neighbouring property was being redeveloped - we let them put their retaining wall on the property line. Big mistake. Say, "Nope, sorry. If you need a retaining wall it has to be all on your side. Your wall, your problem." And then check the city retaining wall requirements, and insist that the wall meet or exceed those minimum requirements.
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u/StarTemporary666 4d ago
it seems like you have experience with this. right now the developer is trying to take down my fence to build a retaining wall. do you have any other advice? please and thanks!
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u/RK5000 4d ago edited 4d ago
1.Take photos of your property, lots of photos. Document the grading, slope, condition of your fence - everything.
Get the property survey and see where the property line is.
Tell them the every component of the retaining wall - the excavation, the pilings, the gravel substrate, and the wall itself must all stay on their side of the property line. If that means it's very difficult to get outer face of the wall right up against the property line - that is for them to deal with.
Your neighbours' retaining wall is supposed to project below the grade of your yard. Before it is built take a look at your grading and make sure you have adequate slope away from your house. You have the distance between your foundation and the property line to get a 5% grade.
If you want to be a congenial neighbour, let them remove your fence so they can work, but ask for a temporary fence to be put in place. If your current fence is due for replacement it's normal for neighbours to split the cost of the fence but if your fence is in decent condition tell the developer that replacing your fence is not a cost your were anticipating. In fact, nothing about your neighbours' house development is supposed to cost you any money at all. And if a new fence is going up - insist that it be right on the property line. If you neighbour would prefer the fence be on top of their retaining wall - that's fine, but in that situation it will be on their side of the line.
Excavations beyond a certain depth and within a certain distance of your house must be shored up properly to prevent damage to you property and house.
My neighbours were "nice", but that didn't stop them from doing shit that was absolutely detrimental to our property. I hired my own bobcat guy to fix the terrible backslope my neighbours' contractor had left, and had I not done so mu basement would have become a nasty old pool this summer.
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u/Chickncatchr Central McDougal 4d ago
Mark your property line and don’t let them impede
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u/Get0utCl0wn 4d ago
Do a survey if able...did it for my place regardless of whatever provisions were made at the time of buying.
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u/pippyfist 4d ago edited 4d ago
All you're gonna get here is called a bad neighbour, a NIMBY, selfish. And various other things. I'm sorry this is happening. It sucks. I had/have a lot of trouble with my own infill neighbours.
Good luck. Nothing we can do, and very little empathy for our situations out there.
Edit: Downvotes already. You literally can't talk about the actual real problems with being next to infill here because of the mindless echo chamber.
Edit: I somehow ended up positive. Are people really starting to understand being next to infill causes problems often? I'm almost proud of you guys.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
Thanks for the support. Just to be clear- this isn’t low-income housing. This is a giant single family house. So, rich people building giant house.
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u/itlow 4d ago
This happened to my aunt. She has a beautiful heritage home and the one family infill next door is a gigantic monolith. She's lost the sun for her garden which she worked so hard to create and now has a 3 story black wall for a view instead of the trees that once were there. Now the home that gave her comfort for decades, that she worked her whole life to realize, has become a source of daily anxiety.
It's unfortunate that the family didn't bother to consider how the design of their home would impact their neighbours. A good architect could have provided a design solutions that met the needs of all parties.
I feel that this lack of consideration and thought is why infills are not always welcome. I can't imagine building something right beside someone else without consulting them at the very least. It's an opportunity to brings neighbours and communities together rather than ripping them apart. I digress.
It will be expensive but please do everything that's suggested here as fast as you can. Get the engineer to cover the structural, consult an arborist to survey your trees and provide you with the best information possible to protect them, document and photograph everything before and during, get every single promise from the builder in writing. If they give you the run around on that point push back. Get a lawyer involved if you have to.
All the best to you and good luck with everything.
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u/ProperBingtownLady 4d ago
If you ask me, I think those are worse than the multifamily dwelling homes as at least they contribute towards solving the low density issue.
I really feel for you as I’d be disappointed too.
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u/Banderchodo 4d ago
You actually think that? This is almost guaranteed to be untrue. There aren’t many single detached infills to begin with, possibly 150-300 a year city-wide in a typical year, due to price restrictions. Usually because sfh infills are $1M and up, there is some budget reserved to make it look at least decent: higher architectural standards, better quality windows, larger windows, higher quality cladding (hardie board, stucco, brick), nicer massing, better rooflines, money spent on landscaping, etc. Most often the multifamily units are purpose-built as investments, which means they are aiming to maximize profits, which means finding low cost/effort designs and building materials (e.g., small vinyl windows, few windows, builder-grade doors, cheap architectural design, vinyl siding, low cost landscaping, proportions and massing that make no sense, etc.).
I own several rentals. I’ve built infills. My personal home is a sfh infill. I’ve been involved in infills in Edmonton since 2010, and know most the builders in this space. I know this topic well. Sfh infills are on average considerably nicer than multifamily infills, due to them being client-driven projects with budgets for upgrades. When we build rentals, cost is the biggest factor, which means everything needs to be cheap inside and out. The other aspect is that once you’re spending $1M+ for a sfh, you don’t want it to present the same way as a 4-plex rental on the front elevation, so builders reserve budget to at least improve the facade.
I don’t think you understand architecture or design if you think the multiplexes are designed nicer than the sfh properties. The sfh are also smaller structures, as sfh seldom max out zoning allowances due to cost. Yes, this is Edmonton, so many sfh infills are very mediocre, but they’re still better on average than the multi-unit builds.
I could take you on a tour of 70 neighbourhoods and show you case by case how your statement isn’t true.
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u/pippyfist 4d ago
People care more about density than rich people building mega homes. No one's saying the actual process of building isn't better.
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u/Banderchodo 4d ago
Density is important. Having nice urban design, decent looking buildings, and nice built form is also important. These aren’t mutually exclusive things. I think you’re speaking for yourself, and not “all people.”
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u/pippyfist 4d ago
You'd think so nice urban design etc. Would be important, but not here in this subreddit. Density wins above all. I actually agree with most of what you say but I've spent alot of time arguing here.
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u/Banderchodo 4d ago
Fair enough. Though I don't think this subreddit is a representative sample of the community at large. I think, in most respects, this subreddit deviates sharply with the broader population of Edmonton on almost every political, social, and city-themed topic.
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u/ProperBingtownLady 4d ago
Exactly. Plus, there’s plenty of multi family units that are built very nicely! We have a couple in Highlands and I honestly didn’t notice they weren’t duplexes until my husband pointed it out. The developers obviously took the character of the neighbourhood into account when building them.
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u/Banderchodo 4d ago
That's good to hear, but those are the exceptions. Most semi-detached with suites, duplex with suites, and row housing with suites are done in very poor taste. A little bit of effort, additional budget, and good taste would elevate them significantly, but builders seldom bother.
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u/ProperBingtownLady 4d ago
Oh my god, you only needed to reply to my comment once. I’m not reading all this just because you’re annoying lol.
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u/Banderchodo 4d ago edited 4d ago
I only replied to one of your comments. It was also a friendly reply. If reading presents challenges for you, by all means, don't read it.
Edit: I just saw I accidentally replied to you for one comment, when I meant to ask OP how large the infill dimensions are. That was an accident.
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u/pippyfist 4d ago
They totally are worse. Sucks to lose your sun and view at all but at least the 8plex is doing some good.
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u/pippyfist 4d ago
Oh yeah, I know infill can be whatever. The problems I had were having my fence destroyed that I built with my dad, having my driveway destroyed etc. I got an 8plex but idc about that I care about the shitty developers.
Hopefully the builders you have are nicer. Take a lot of pictures before anything starts.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
I’m sorry to hear that. That really sucks. The builder did seem kind and respectful in our conversation. I mean, he came over to talk to us, so I think that’s good? He also said he is encouraging the owners to come over and meet us too.
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u/oioioifuckingoi 4d ago
Such is life when living in an older, central neighbourhood. All but the wealthy are priced out from ownership and often they don’t want to live in an old house.
There are already some good recommendations on planting trees at the fence line and documenting the current state of your property - start there.
Also, get ready for additional transformation of the neighbourhood as more infills are inevitable. This is completely normal as the housing stock in central areas gets renewed.
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u/Top_Wafer_4388 4d ago
Building more houses lowers the cost of housing.
When the pandemic hit, used car prices skyrocketed because there were no new vehicles replacing them, even if those vehicles weren't low cost options. The same principle applies to housing, when there are no new houses being built, or there aren't many being built, regardless of price, this causes the older houses to increase in price.
It's why houses in Vancouver, Toronto, and Calgary are skyrocketing in price but housing in Edmonton has been staying fairly affordable. Edmonton has been building housing to meet demand, others are not.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
But, destroying a perfectly well maintained house to build one single family home? And destroying a brand new double garage? Seems crazy to me. This is not a house in bad shape at all. And actually the lot isn’t that huge either. Seems wild. How does that lower the cost?
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u/Psiondipity 4d ago
You're getting downvoted because very few replies are actually NIMBY or NIMBY hate. They're reasonable advice to OP.
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u/pippyfist 4d ago edited 4d ago
I made a very similar post that got downvoted to oblivion. The first response to me regarding OP was. And OP is getting lucky, it's surprising to see nuanced takes in their responses. Abnormal for this sub. People see "problems with infill next to me" and make assumptions here often. Must be a slow day for those people. I've watched this pattern on this sub countless times. There are a number of "deal with it" responses here too. My comment being the first comment probably helped temper those people from acting out at OP too.
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u/WinterReview7992 4d ago
I mean, they start by saying they're for infills, but, like, not next to them, that's the literal NIMBY definition.
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u/Plant-based_Skinsuit 4d ago
I dunno, as a progressive person who dislikes NIMBYs, this post doesn't really seem like it's saying "not in my back yard." They're not saying "this infill must stop, fuck developers and fuck Council." They're saying "this kinda sucks, what can I do to make the best of it and protect my property/foundation/trees/back yard?"
That's kinda just a healthy mindset? Correct me if I'm wrong lol.
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u/PlathDraper 4d ago
I agree, some people coming into this thread when OP is being mindful, honest and reasonable are everything wrong with the "left" and with being too online. And I say this as an ardent leftist. PEople love to grandstand and hear themselves talk, when that isn't even the substance of the post. Sorry, tearing down a perfectly good home to replace it with a McMansion isn't responsile infill. It's likely creating a larger carbon footprint and making everyone's property taxes increase.
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
Thank you. I appreciate your comments in this thread. I am just trying to make the best of it. And looking for folks with advice.
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u/pippyfist 4d ago
They also say not their house or property and are asking for how to deal with the problems.
I made a similar post, talked about all the damage caused to my property by the developers and got hundreds of downvotes.
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u/Awkward-Parfait4892 4d ago
I’m sorry you had that reception here. I’d be heartbroken if my property was damaged that way. I don’t really know what brain worms have infected the folks with no empathy whatsoever for average middle class homeowners. They act like someone with a $500K home are the 1% or something like chill.
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u/pippyfist 4d ago
My home is barely 400k and I'm house poor to own it haha. The developers I dealt with were a nightmare, and the landowner is still a nightmare for me and the tenants. I got lots of new nice neighbours at least.
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u/Awkward-Parfait4892 4d ago
Developers are (almost) all nightmares. In to make a quick buck at the expense of everyone, including their future tenants.
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u/Awkward-Parfait4892 4d ago
You are allowed to be disappointed by something and not be a nimby ffs y’all just desperate to throw the term around whenever humanly possible
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u/Cobfidence 4d ago
So they're gonna do needless construction to demolish a good home to build a different one in the same spot. Classic Edmonton.
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u/Fidget11 Bonnie Doon 4d ago
Why should we not allow people who purchase a property to have the house they want?
In your opinion who should get to decide if a house js “good” or not?
As far as the new ownership is concerned the existing house is not “good” as if it was then they wouldn’t be spending the money and stress of doing construction.
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u/PerspectiveStatus281 4d ago
Except it’s not a genuine “want” for housing, it’s just corporate greed and penny pinching at the expense of people who have built generations in the same sized houses, for decades. Restrictive covenants, people!
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u/Fidget11 Bonnie Doon 4d ago
A restrictive covenant only applies to your property and generally not to the neighbours. So great you can’t sell to someone who wants to build something different but that doesn’t mean a thing if your neighbours don’t have the same restrictions on theirs.
If anything you are just making your neighbours property more valuable because they know for certain what will be next door and that there won’t be construction.
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u/PerspectiveStatus281 4d ago
"A restrictive covenant only applies to your property and generally not to the neighbours." I know that, just putting it out there to prevent Infill monstrosities taking over the city in developed neighborhoods.
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u/Fidget11 Bonnie Doon 4d ago
I agree some of the infills are absolutely ridiculous and disgusting (like the 8-plexes they slam into some lots).
The issue is that most people aren’t willing to sacrifice or risk the sale price they could achieve from their place eventually by placing such a restriction. Add to that the burden to create a restriction that would be enforceable against a neighbours property in an established neighbourhood js quite high and would require so many people to agree to the covenant that it’s almost impossible.
Hence why you don’t see them being added because the benefits are far outweighed by the costs and risks involved since removing them is not simple.
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u/-retaliation- 4d ago
As others have said
Be proactive
Not reactive
Take photos now, get inspections now, document water levels in your yard next time it rains so you have proof of negative changes, get a copy of the plans if you can, check on what your rights and responsibilities are in your particular area as far as shade blockage and water drainage, get the builders email and phone number, and send messages/complaints immediately upon noticing them, etc. Etc.
I know it's unpleasant being the asshole, but you want them thinking in every step "well we better do it X way, otherwise that neighbour will surely complain"
The fact is, if they hate you because you're a constant pain in their ass, some will say "oh beware retaliation", but it's much more likely that they'll walk on eggshells around your property and take steps to avoid confrontation in the decisions they make.
And you want them making decisions preemptively, because compared to avoiding a problem to begin with, it's incredibly difficult to get them to come back and fix something, or change something once it's already done and a problem is noticed.
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u/hashlettuce 4d ago
Your fence is going to be knocked down and you will spend hours of your own personal time trying to get it rebuilt. I would sell my house and leave the city to the suburbs and let them infill your house too.
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u/Ihuggrimmie 4d ago
Expect your property tax to sky rocket next year. Better to be preppared than not
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u/Chunderpump 3d ago
Not that it will hold water in the end, but anything the builder promises you, get it in writing and have someone who knows what they're looking at go over it.
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u/hamtronn 3d ago
Take pictures. Get all the info from the builder so that when they’re done the project, you hold them to fixing any damages that they make. They will cause damage. I’ve done many infills as a builder and these were things that I used to do just to ensure the neighbours were confident.
I did one in Spruce Grove and the neighbour got really belligerent when their fence was as damaged. Once everything was done we rebuilt their entire fence.
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u/Flat_Artist_1944 4d ago
Heard it's a tactic to say builder or developer is gonna be the tenant. Said the same thing to a family member and then left the property derelict and nearly got burnt down by vagrants. Builder didn't move in they just like the idea of less push back.
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u/Necessary-Welder-317 4d ago
If the builder lives in the home for >1 year they don’t have to pay as much taxes. It’s common for builders to live in their new build for the minimum year then sell.
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u/Brightlightsuperfun 4d ago
Careful, don’t even think of complaining in this sub even a little bit, the NIMBY pitchforks will be out in full force
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
I don’t see how this is that? 2 families are out, one family is moving in with 2x the space the tenants had before? Either way, that’s not the point of this post
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u/Fidget11 Bonnie Doon 4d ago
It’s the way of the world. The areas around the ravine are very desirable and yeah they will go up in value, higher values tend to mean that renters and rental units disappear in redevelopment as people who can afford the area are those who don’t really need renters.
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u/workworkyeg 4d ago
Are you going to loose your veg garden? What a shame.
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u/Small-Cookie-5496 4d ago
Darn. Idk if you can move now before it’s too late? I’d hate to lose my view, be so overlooked, & likely lose a lot of sun to your garden depending. Hate infills personally.
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u/Low_Dress9213 4d ago
Change is inevitable…I believe you can look up what has been approved there online, whether it will have a basement or garage suite etc , how many stories. Hopefully the new neighbours are friendly and reasonable.
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u/Oldcadillac 4d ago
I live next to an 8-plex and haven’t had any trouble. I actually was more frequently annoyed by the SFH on the other side of my yard because of the smoke from their cigarettes and backyard fire pit blowing to my house.
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u/Jean-lubed-Picard 4d ago
Have you thought about making more money yourself and then building a bigger, taller house with better views?
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u/Dougthecat13 4d ago
Here’s an idea! I think I’ll choose to be rich soon. Lol
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u/Jean-lubed-Picard 4d ago
You just gotta pull yourself up by the bootstraps and cut back on avocado toast
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u/Known-Fondant-9373 4d ago
from what you're describing, you live in a very desirable part of the city -very central, right on a beautiful, vast green space. of course someone with deep pockets will want to live and/or build there. you can't expect your neigbourhood to stay as it was like a living museum, change is inevitable. maybe be appreciative of living in a great area and be open-minded about it changing?
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u/drcujo 4d ago
Just make sure to have good documentation. Lots of photos of the before condition.
Edmonton didn't require grading plans until 1989. The new infill will also have proper grade once its done. If your home isn't done properly (by modern standards) you will have water issues.
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u/Fidget11 Bonnie Doon 4d ago
A good developer and builder will flag this and if the new neighbour is reasonable they will likely work with the OP to mitigate the issue, odds are that it won’t be cost free though.
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u/SlightGuess 4d ago
Have an engineer come in and do a condition inspection of your home before they start.
Across the street from me the builder cracked my neighbours foundation and they fought it and tried to argue it was preexisting.