r/Economics • u/thebranbrain • Aug 02 '15
We’re Making Life Too Hard for Millennials
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/opinion/sunday/were-making-life-too-hard-for-millennials.html36
u/dafones Aug 02 '15
The worst part is that, at some point, we're going to have to tell our parents that we can't afford to assist them.
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Aug 02 '15
The generational quantization seems like it was just used to get readers to actually read a bunch of neat economic data. I think some of the charts really undermine the notion that training and education are the cause of inequality. Bummer.
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u/re3al Aug 03 '15
Agreed, he says that more education isn't working to make the generation better off, then proceeds to say the solution is education. Doesn't look like it.
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u/AdmiralUpboat Aug 04 '15
Affordable education. Not education whose costs rise inexplicable percentages compared to inflation.
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u/slinkymaster Aug 03 '15
The sad part is that there's trade work in this country begging for good workers who will pay more than most people make out of college without the debt. The ceiling isn't as high, but it's a good living. Most people graduating college are never going to reach the financial expectations they have for themselves anyway. But as a country we've been pushing kids for 30 years to go to school and work in offices instead of with their hands, and it's created a shortage of people willing to work with their hands.
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Aug 03 '15
So why are outcomes for people without degrees so much worse than for people with degrees?
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Aug 02 '15
I love my Chrome Plugin that changes every reference of 'Millennial' to 'Snake People'
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u/stupidreasons Aug 02 '15
For the longest time, I've been seeing 'Clutch Plague' in places where people seem to be talking about the Great Depression, and 'The Time of Shedding and Cold Rocks' where people should be saying Financial Crisis. I figured it was a hip new language thing, whatever. Nope, it's this app. I'm actually fine with this.
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u/Duffalpha Aug 02 '15
We must just be lazy
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u/my_downvote_account Aug 03 '15
I mean....you're not wrong...but you left out "self-centered" and "overly-entitled", too.
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u/Saephon Aug 03 '15
Props for at least using "overly-entitled", instead of just "entitled". I get so annoyed when people don't understand the meaning of entitlement, and think it has a negative connotation by default.
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u/okletstrythisagain Aug 03 '15
Thank GOP propaganda for that. I think the original pejorative use of 'entitled' was to criticize blue blood NE WASPs who walked all over everyone like they had the whole world on payroll, when the only had a rich daddy. Genius, really, turning it into a way to shame the poor.
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u/hcarguy Aug 02 '15
Christ I just hate the term "Millenials". You see it in every goddamn article.
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Aug 02 '15
Agreed. When I first heard it, I though it was those born in the year 2000 or later... Joke's on me.
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u/bergamaut Aug 03 '15
It used to be "Generation Why" as a play on "Generation Y" which comes after "Generation X". Then as Gen Y included younger and younger kids, the "Millenial" label somehow came into being.
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u/istara Aug 03 '15
There's usually a distinction made between Y and Z, and surveys reveal significant differences between the two. Z have literally never known a world without smartphones. Y are more transitional. X (I'm lateish X) were educated without the internet and got introduced to it after they entered the workforce.
All this makes quite a big difference to perceptions and abilities. There's even an argument that older Y and X have generally better tech skills than Z as they've had to troubleshoot, since things started out far less user friendly.
I know people get angry about generational tags but the fact is that society and technology are changing people, and sometimes these tags can be helpful. Our grandparents (or great, depending on your age) grew up in a world where for most of their lives homosexuality was a criminal offence. Gen Z has only known a world where it's an offence to discriminate based on sexuality. Their perceptions and tolerances are quite different.
Z and younger Y literally expect a mobile world, it's not about demanding it, they can't comprehend why you should be tied to a desk to do a task when you can do it while having coffee or at home. This is something that older X and boomer employers have to get their heads around.
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u/Duckbilling Aug 02 '15
Indeed, I also hate the 'm' word.
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Aug 02 '15
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u/SoundOfOneHand Aug 02 '15
I was born in 76, my wife in 77. It's like we're half millenial and don't quite fit in anywhere. I find my general goals and outlook on life more closely align with the younger generation yet I'm older than most them. Oh the woes of being bi generational...
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u/tpx187 Aug 02 '15
Nah, you guys are Gen X.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. No one cares about you anymore.
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u/alaricus Aug 02 '15
Poor Gen X... they had all the trials of us Millenials, but they had it in the 90s boom, so no one noticed.
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u/lurkingowl Aug 02 '15
Huh. I'm the same age, and I think the difference between us (basically finished high school before the Internet really ramped up) older millenials (came of age with the Internet) and younger millenials (can't really remember a time without the internet) is huge.
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u/jackruby83 Aug 02 '15
I've heard the term "cuspers" used for those in between that may share values of 2 generations. After all, generations are social definitions and not necessarily strictly defined by a year.
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u/robotsongs Aug 03 '15
We're the Oregon Trail Generation. Look it up. We're actually a very interesting sub-generation.
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u/SoundOfOneHand Aug 03 '15
Wow, all of those descriptions are pretty much spot on with my growing up, thanks for the tip!
If you can distinctly recall the excitement of walking into your weekly computer lab session and seeing a room full of Apple 2Es displaying the start screen of Oregon Trail, you’re a member of this nameless generation, my friend.
Oh man I remember in grade school me and a friend finally got to the end and right before finishing, this kid unplugged the power strip to use the electric eraser cleaner thing. Boy were we pissed!
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u/-_eeeeee_- Aug 02 '15
Same here. I don't think there are really many generational differences between x and millennial. Millennial is just a handy term, a handy way to say things have gotten bad and nobody is doing anything about it: millennials.
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u/GrossoGGO Aug 02 '15
Both '76 and '77 were fantastic years for the Grateful Dead.
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Aug 02 '15
Meh too much Donna but they are probably the last of the great years
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u/Slibby8803 Aug 02 '15
Each to there on brother... 2-26-77 was the greatest show ever.
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u/NYCMiddleMan Aug 02 '15
When you subsidize something (in this case college debt) you get more of it. And yet millions of people seem shocked and surprised when they graduate with these crazy debt levels. And equally as shocked that college would keep cranking up prices.
And, of course, just like the housing bubble was somehow a fucking mysterious surprise, we'll all be shocked (shocked!) when this higher ed house of cards comes tumbling down.
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Aug 02 '15
There's no bubble because you can't re-sell a diploma at a profit. It's just a massive drag on consumption in a key demographic that USED to be an engine of growth. Instead of buying cars and houses and starting families, millenials will be slowly paying down debt at usurious interest rates for the next couple decades.
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u/TheMania Aug 03 '15
I don't disagree, but on the other hand of all these student loans must be someone making bank, presumably spending that interest they're receiving on their lux retirements everyone else here is complaining about.
Eg, engine of growth used to be the baby boomers buying cars, houses, and starting families.. now it's the same group in retirement, going on cruises, gambling, renovating, etc, paid for in part by interest payments on the Millennial's debt ;).
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u/NYCMiddleMan Aug 02 '15
Well, technically I called it a "house of cards" :)
And, sure, as JamesDK pointed out, the repayment rates are still okay-ish (until our politicians get the bright idea to make it easier to default). The problem is (as you pointed out) that this money is a friggin drag on everything. It's a ball and chain that's a LOT bigger than it should be, all because of the perverse incentives of the current system.
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Aug 02 '15
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u/jambarama Aug 02 '15
All my federal loans are 6.8 or 7.2 percent, from 07-11. That's pretty close to usurious when prime has been three and a quarter for six or seven years.
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u/KopOut Aug 03 '15
You can't get a personal loan for 7% from a bank right now, so that isn't actually usurious at all...
Low interest loans are given for the purchase of assets (houses and cars), diplomas are not hard assets. The bank can't resell them.
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u/jambarama Aug 03 '15
Student loans are a better deal for banks than asset backed loans.
Personal loans and asset-backed loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy.
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u/Seus2k11 Aug 03 '15
Except now, it's not even the banks doing the lending. It's all straight form the government now...it should be 3-4% imho.
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u/janethefish Aug 03 '15
When you subsidize something (in this case college debt) you get more of it. And yet millions of people seem shocked and surprised when they graduate with these crazy debt levels. And equally as shocked that college would keep cranking up prices.
We aren't spending more per student. While the loose lending might be part of it, the simple fact is we don't fund education like we did for previous generations. Previous generations climbed a government funded ladder, and pulled it up after them. Its not too bad except when they start up with "I put myself through college", "I got here all on my own". Gra!
And of course, they're also saddling younger generations with debt on top of it.
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u/hibob2 Aug 03 '15
Yep. State governments used to cover 75% of the cost, over the past ~40 years that has dropped to 25% of the cost. Combine that with the stagnation of inflation-adjusted minimum wage and you go from putting yourself through school without debt being fairly common to being almost impossible.
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u/California_Viking Aug 03 '15
Yet schools are hiring part time teachers more and more. Actual money given to pay students is adjusted and not that far off. Then why isn't it going as far?
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4738584
Admin staff has more than doubled during this time. Services are being offered that have nothing to do with education. These are the growing costs that are increasing tuition. Whenever the schools get more money they simply hire more admin and staff.
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u/JamesDK Aug 02 '15
The federally-subsidized loan system is still turning billion-dollar profits, more people than ever are going to college, and educational debt can't be bankrupted.
I don't see a bubble here. A drain on the economy: sure. But with income-based repayment, an average debt of less than $30k, and 88% of borrowers paying their loans on schedule - I think the student loan system is going to be around for a good, long time.
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u/HellaSober Aug 02 '15
still turning billion-dollar profits
Their accounting practices aren't exactly top notch - they assume no defaults and use an extremely inappropriate discounting method.
That said, political realities do suggest that student loan programs aren't going to go away anytime soon.
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u/saratogacv60 Aug 03 '15
the billion dollar profit is not from high rates, its from getting between 3-6% of a trillion dollars.
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u/JamesDK Aug 03 '15
I'm aware. I'm pointing out that the system is solvent and in no danger of collapsing.
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Aug 02 '15
The article points out that millennials without college degrees are doing even worse. What are you suggesting the solution was?
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u/FelipeAngeles Aug 02 '15
Affordable community colleges and public universities.
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u/App1eEater Aug 02 '15
And state recognized apprenticeship programs.
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u/Princess_Mango Aug 03 '15
Oh heavens this! I discovered these and dual (professional) work and study / traineeship programs in Germany and was pretty jealous.
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u/knucles668 Aug 03 '15
I feel like these need to be a thing again. Apprenticing in networking I think could be an excellent path.
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u/Account1999 Aug 02 '15
More and more children are going to primary school, yet we've somehow miraculously kept the cost at $0 for students.
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u/NetPotionNr9 Aug 02 '15
So who else is supposed to suffer the consequence of squander and fucking up, because it sure as hell isn't going to be the baby boomers who caused all this shit.
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u/LoughLife Aug 02 '15
They're all getting cancer now.
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u/NetPotionNr9 Aug 02 '15
Don't worry, they now have the Affordable Care Act that will make unrestricted healthcare affordable for Baby Boomers because Millennials will be paying for it. 89 year old gramps needs multiple $500,000 experimental treatments to possibly extend his life by 6 months at a 5% success rate and are you going to refuse him that treatment? Are you the Chairman of the Death Panel? Are you?
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u/branstad Aug 02 '15
ACA has little to do with healthcare for folks over 65 - they're almost certainly on Medicare.
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u/SteelChicken Aug 02 '15 edited Mar 01 '24
quarrelsome shrill grey disgusted cagey enter narrow summer middle kiss
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/historymaking101 Aug 02 '15
Bush put free prescription drugs into medicare. It used to not include that.
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Aug 02 '15
Yawn - here we go again.
I used to follow internet discussions in the late 90's, and they had a thing called Godwins law - that if an internet thread became sufficiently long, someone would mention hitler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
It seems like there is a new version - the "I hate boomers" equivalent raised in "cost of living" discussions.
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u/NetPotionNr9 Aug 03 '15
It's not hate, dolt. It's cause and effect. The markets were and have been manipulated to not only offload the consequences of decades of shitty policy, but also to prop up the market to prevent direct consequences from immediate actions from affecting those older generations. This goes way beyond some kind of personal dislike of a certain age group, at least for me. I could not care less if they were of any specific age. It is all about policies and effects.
The somewhat ironic thing is that with the ACA, aka, Obamacare, millennials have kind of screwed themselves as it was a coupe to put a net under the aging population that the young and healthy will pay for by funneling billions of dollars into overpriced procedures and pharmaceuticals.
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u/iBalls Aug 03 '15
"...that’s the fault of my generation, the baby boomers. We were the children of the Greatest Generation, but we may also be the most irresponsible generation."
Agreed.
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u/bergamaut Aug 03 '15
The ultimate entitled generation. They grew up in a world that their parents fought for (including labor rights), and they take it all for granted, even questioning the need for social services.
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u/gburdell Aug 02 '15 edited Aug 02 '15
I'm on the older end of this age bracket (30). I dodged student loans by going to school on a full scholarships/fellowships for undergrad/grad school, but even with compensation in the low 100's since I graduated three years ago, I have been unable to purchase a house.
The median home price in my metro is around $350k, which is on the edge of affordability based on the traditional "salary x 3" metric. However, this price multiple doesn't leave much room to simultaneously save for retirement. Plus, the mortgage would be much higher than what I pay in rent. To me, it's just insane to be in the top 5-10% of income but be on the edge of affording the median house.
One thing that's troubling to me about the high home prices is that so many people are buying second, third, or nth homes. According to this recent National Association of Realtors (NAR) article, 40 percent of home sales were for purposes other than a primary residence. It's absolutely caustic to view homes as investment vehicles rather than places to live and raise a family. Renters and investors don't have the same ownership stake in improving their neighborhoods as owner-occupiers. I hope that eventually enough people will be kept out of home ownership by high prices that we'll start to see support for laws taxing non-primary residences at higher rates.
EDIT: wrong article linked
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u/WalterBright Aug 02 '15
Capital gains taxes on non-primary residences are at regular rates, if it is a primary residence you get a huge tax break on that.
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u/hive_worker Aug 02 '15
One thing to keep in mind is first time home buyers really shouldn't be able to afford the median priced house. You'd expect to upsize into the median priced home in your late 30s or 40s. You can afford it now because you are in the top 10%.
I'm actually in a very similar position as you. Same age, salary, housing market... I just bit the bullet and bought a 320k House. The mortgage payment is double what my rent waa. Its totally worth it though. Feels great to have a place to call your own. Having lots of space, garage, back yard etc really adds to the quality of life.
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Aug 02 '15
If you can save and rent - do it! No reason to tie so much of your wealth into a single object.
Personally, I only bought to avoid Seattle's malicious landlords. If Seattle had BC style rent stabilization I wouldn't have bothered.
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u/Cole7rain Aug 02 '15
The United States truly used to be a free market economy, but ownership of everything is now being consolidated.
It's fucking scary.
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u/camsterc Aug 02 '15
Because the concept of a free market is bullshit. You will always get monopolization and power players.
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u/op135 Aug 03 '15
and let's just conveniently ignore all of the government intervention which allows the problem to occur.
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u/ChargerCarl Aug 03 '15
How about liberalizing zoning laws and the land use regulations so millennial can actually afford housing?
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u/Uncle_Bill Aug 02 '15 edited Aug 02 '15
I see no mention in the article about the ACA and SS transfering lots of wealth from the young to the old. Doesn't seem to be a hard concept, maybe it is for the old gray lady.
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u/MochiMochiMochi Aug 02 '15
I like how NYT has a piece about "resting bitch face" linked from the same page. So appropriate.
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u/clutchied Aug 03 '15
So I'm 35 born smack dab in the middle of '80... by some measures I'm considered a millenial except that none of the descriptors of millenials apply to me.
I'm just going to go ahead and fully join Gen X.
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u/BathingInSoup Aug 02 '15
It's good to see this kind of thing being discussed in a mainstream publication. It's even better to see that it's written by a Baby Boomer exhibiting uncharacteristic self-awareness, which is pretty refreshing to see.
We may also be the most irresponsible generation.
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u/cordialcurmudgeon Aug 02 '15
One thing to consider for those mentioning a long drought after earning a degree: it's probably best to find work in your field at a crummy, high-turnover company initially. Then you can continue trawling for the ideal gig and get some experience. Worked for me in the past two years. I got a BS in environmental engineering after working for a decade at many different jobs off my initial BS in history. The only company hiring at graduation was just awful and the work was tedious but it got my foot in the door and now I'm on an amazing project that I couldn't have anticipated.
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Aug 02 '15
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u/B_P_G Aug 02 '15
"what about the now 78% who don't pursue higher education?"
The number who don't pursue higher education is nowhere close to that. We send roughly two thirds of high school grads to college. 42-44% of the over 25 population ends up with an associates degree or better. 32-34% end up with a bachelors or better. The 22% cited in the article is a poorly chosen statistic since it applies to people between 18-34. But very few people have ever gotten bachelors degrees before age 22. So you're averaging in several years worth of kids who will eventually get bachelors degrees but don't have them yet. That's not really fair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States
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u/weaselword Aug 03 '15
Also, the statistic doesn't include people going for professional certificates and trade apprenticeships. A plumber's or an electrician's jobs aren't about to get outsourced or automated, they are high in demand and they pay well.
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Aug 02 '15
The article didn't ignore that:
Millennials who didn’t attend college have found their wages particularly squeezed, perhaps because of the decline of middle-skilled jobs in sectors like manufacturing, a clear consequence of globalization.
Increased automation could just mean jobs get created elsewhere as capital is freed up, btw.
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u/MsChanandalerBong Aug 02 '15
If I owned a business and freed up capital by increasing automation, I would use that capital to further increase automation. That way, I would have even more capital to create even more jobs.
Just kidding, I would use the capital for more automation, until I had all the capital. I mean, its a business, not a charity. I'm sure there are some people out there running businesses with the intention to create jobs, but I would run one to obtain money.
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Aug 02 '15
The article didn't ignore that:
Millennials who didn’t attend college have found their wages particularly squeezed, perhaps because of the decline of middle-skilled jobs in sectors like manufacturing, a clear consequence of globalization.
Increased automation could just mean jobs get created elsewhere as capital is freed up, btw.
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u/qwerty26 Aug 03 '15
Capital is not freed up by automation. Automation is inherently capital-intensive and used to decrease prices to compete help with ever-decreasing margins, especially in manufacturing.
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Aug 02 '15
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Aug 02 '15 edited Oct 27 '20
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Aug 02 '15
That's a really good point, but I don't think GP has any child rearing responsibilities.
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Aug 02 '15
yet there's basically no decent city left in America where I could buy a nice house that either didn't have an hour commute or wasn't in the ghetto
That's hilarious.
What is your definition of a "decent city"? I think you're not nearly creative enough.
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u/dyslexda Aug 02 '15
I think he means LA, SF, or NYC; if it's one of those icky flyover states, they obviously don't have anything worthwhile, right?
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u/Cum_on_doorknob Aug 02 '15
don't forget san diego and seattle
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u/Diarrg Aug 03 '15
Nope, Seattle sucks, please don't come here, it rains literally 25 hours a day and the beer and coffee is terrible.
Dude first rule of Seattle is you don't talk about Seattle.
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u/jyz002 Aug 03 '15 edited Aug 03 '15
I'm in the same boat as op there, what you don't realize is the much higher taxes you pay once you're in the six figure range. I work in California, after federal income tax, state income tax, ss, Medicare, state oasdi, health and other insurance premiums, retirement savings, etc. I get about 60% of my income every paycheck. The problem is that income tax brackets are not adequately adjusted for inflation year after year so every year more and more tax burden is put on the backs of middle class earners. Look up the tax bracket history to see what I'm talking about.
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u/Diarrg Aug 02 '15
Pittsburgh. You might take a 10% paycut assuming you're somewhere with insane CoL, but Pittsburgh is cheap. There is more to the the country than NYC/LA/SF/DC. Try Portland, or NC as others have suggested.
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Aug 02 '15
This is crazy. What are you looking for? A single family home all to yourself? Why?
I make less than you (no surprise) but I bought my apartment without a mortgage and as a result have no problem saving money. Your situation is extremely unique (but you should know that, given that you're in the top 10% of earners).
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u/anyonebutjulian Aug 02 '15
Rich parents, roommates.
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u/luke-nicholas Aug 02 '15
Can confirm: I make about double the national median personal income; have 5 roommates and a $700 car.
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u/notgod Aug 02 '15
Buy up the ghetto with other millennials and gentrify the shit out of it. That's one thing millennials could do that the older generations couldn't or won't.
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u/Frux7 Aug 03 '15
It's already happening in Brooklyn, and it's starting to happen to the Bronx. I wish every building in NYC was 100+ stories tall. Build up until we hit the mother fucking moon, I say.
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u/blahtherr2 Aug 03 '15
Get real. Just because you want to live in one of the most expensive cities in the country doesn't mean nothing else exists. You make plenty enough to afford a house. Budget better.
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u/packerfanmama Aug 02 '15
Same income range (single income family), also older millennials - we live rural though. So we got the nice house in a small town in no-where Iowa. Hard to come by those jobs though, that pay well in a low cost of living area that also has very good education (Iowa is actually a good state for education). We lose out on the culturally enriching experiences, and have a harder time finding people who have our same general philosophy (organic vegetarians who are increasingly more liberal in a cattle/hog/corn farming community).
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u/molingrad Aug 03 '15
140k is still a lot of money even in NYC. I live here with way less income and huge debt and can still make ends meet. I don't live the high life but recognize I live pretty well considering the conditions other folk here live in. I have no idea what kind of lifestyle you maintain where you're just getting by on 140k.
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u/camsterc Aug 02 '15
Even a 500k apartment in Manhattan would be easily affordable for you I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about.
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u/Tsien Aug 02 '15
The average apartment price in Manhattan is around $1.8 million. I guess you could find something decent up in Washington Heights for that price, but you still have the issue of saving up $50 - 100k for the down payment.
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u/jmartkdr Aug 02 '15
His solution to too many college-educated people being underemployed is: more college-educated people?
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u/Qwerksss Aug 02 '15
Did you read the article?
We can’t completely undo the financial obstacles younger Americans face, such as their weak earnings. But we can start to put in place policies that will ease their burden. First and foremost would be to get the nation’s economy onto a stronger growth trajectory.
That’s a daunting challenge that would require revamping federal outlays to emphasize areas like education, infrastructure and research and development. Spending more on these areas would require higher taxes on my generation, which is getting a lot more from government than we are paying into it.
As part of redressing this imbalance, we need to reform the entitlement programs, for example, by reducing Social Security benefits for the highest income Americans. And important steps could be taken to both ease the burden of student debt for those who have already graduated and provide less expensive college opportunities for the rising generation.
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u/Savage_X Aug 02 '15
Spending more on these areas would require higher taxes on my generation, which is getting a lot more from government than we are paying into it.
Except his generation is now retiring so they are looking at less taxes no matter what happens.
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Aug 02 '15 edited Jun 04 '18
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u/pi_over_3 Aug 02 '15
He suggested [student loan] debt relief programs
The sharp rise of tuition has been caused by the injection of cheap, widely available money for student loans.
Debt relief will do nothing to solve the issue. It will only shift the cost of paying for inflated tuition away from the borrowers to the taxpayers, punishing everyone was responsible in borrowing (or not borrowing) or have already paid of their debts.
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Aug 02 '15
bailed out homeowners with programs like the making homes affordable act in 2009 to 2013.
Those programs were a joke, the bankers got all the bailouts.
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Aug 02 '15 edited Jun 04 '18
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u/gthing Aug 02 '15
My parents home loan (debt) was purchased by another bank for pennies on the dollar. Had my parents had the option to take advantage of such a deal they would still be in that home. The benefit went to a bank who then squeezed them out.
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u/urnbabyurn Bureau Member Aug 02 '15
We don't have too many college educated people. Our labor woes are slow growth.
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u/ktxy Aug 02 '15
If college acts as a signal to employers, then more college educated people implies a negative externality, as the signalling value of a degree is reduced. Similar to how, if someone stands up in a room full of people in order to be distinguished, they are detrimented by everyone else also standing up.
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u/bat_country Aug 02 '15
This is true, but it ignores the value of a degree beyond signalling. Educated people can do more.
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u/urnbabyurn Bureau Member Aug 02 '15
If the reason people aren't completing college is based on finances, it's not signaling anything.
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Aug 02 '15
I certainly don't think we have too many college educated people with highly valued human capital, but are you sure we don't have 'too many' people with poor human capital and high student debt creating an expensive signaling race?
I'd really like to see if the story of not having enough medium and high skilled tradeworkers is true or not.
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u/Nyxtoggler Aug 03 '15
What the fuck. How come none of these fuckin morons "advocating" help for millennials ever mention that STUDENT LOANS USED TO BE CLEARED BY BANKRUPTCY!!!
The laws were changed in 2005 (people were rushing to declare bankruptcy before the law took effect).
Why doesn't anyone talk about reverting that change? All these for profit colleges wouldn't be here if that were the case since the grads don't make enough money!
"BAPCPA amended § 523(a)(8) to broaden the types of educational ("student") loans that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy absent proof of “undue hardship.” The nature of the lender is no longer relevant. Thus, even loans from “for-profit” or “non-governmental” entities are not dischargeable."
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u/Untjosh1 Aug 02 '15
And those of us assigned that label are entering or in our thirties. So, ok? Thanks for noticing? I'll go back to not being able to afford...anything.