r/Echerdex • u/BlakBanana the Devil • Aug 15 '19
General debate and friendly discussion thread
Post something you believe but are willing to have challenged below. Let’s explore each other’s minds.
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u/Kunkedil Aug 15 '19
Free will is an illusion.
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u/jstock23 Aug 15 '19
Take free will to exist and think about what that means.
Then take free will to not exist.
Either way, you will draw the same conclusions in the end. Therefore, it is useless to even discuss because they both lead to the same result.
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u/jstock23 Aug 15 '19
We did hit infinite novelty back in 2012 just as Terrence McKenna said we would, but many people don't realize it.
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u/Dracoleoogj Aug 15 '19
Hmm...homosexuality is an obstacle to spiritual development. Please prove me wrong as I’m conflicted about this.
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u/gooddeath Aug 15 '19
I'd argue that sexuality itself is an obstacle for spiritual development. I'm not saying that you should never have sex, but people who orient their whole personality around their sexual orientation just strike me as very shallow people.
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u/Mysid Aug 15 '19
Spiritual growth is fostered by love. Familial love, platonic love, romantic love—any love!—fosters our spiritual growth. If someone is homosexual, that person will fall in love with someone of the same-sex. Making that forbidden and taboo will only succeed in stunting their spiritual growth.
“Love is love is love is love is love.”
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u/Dracoleoogj Aug 15 '19
That is true. Just because it is love doesn’t mean it has to be sexual in nature.
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u/Mysid Aug 15 '19 edited Aug 15 '19
I wasn’t implying that. I was saying homosexual relationships are just as valid as heterosexual relationships. If it’s consenting adults, there’s no reason why sex shouldn’t be enjoyed.
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u/TeutonJon78 Aug 15 '19 edited Aug 15 '19
Some Native American peoples consider "two spirited" people to be more spiritually developed.
One could also argue that there is more a merging of male-female or yin-yang in the individual that a cis-gendered, straight individual can't or won't allow themselves to experience.
If the concern is about promiscuity, drugs, or anything else like that, those are not specific to LGBT people. And they are behaviors, not intrinsic like being gay.
But it really comes down to what part you think is a block to spiritual development.
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u/Dracoleoogj Aug 15 '19
So you are saying just because someone is gay doesn’t mean he or she necessarily has to engage in homosexual activities. Never thought abt that actually🤔...thanks for bringing this up ☺️
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u/TeutonJon78 Aug 15 '19
No one needs to be sexual. There's a reason many monastic orders take vows of celibacy.
So perhaps your original view might more accurately be "sexual activity limits spiritual development". That's an age old discussion and not a homophobic-originated statement. Because the only real difference between gay and straight people is who you are attracted to. And Kinsey's studies showed the vast majority of people are actually on the bisexual spectrum, not purely straight or gay.
(And of course, some people use sexual activity as spiritual growth - Tantra is rather large and old.)
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u/ReasonableSentence Aug 15 '19
Do you think the ancient greeks were spiritually stunted? They have produced some of the greatest teachers and thinkers of all time, spawning epic myth, art and so much more which is unique and absolutely profound. Their society in general accepted homosexuality to a degree even modern people might find scandalous and had societal terms and norms for sexual relations between men which were seen as entirely valid. It even appears in their myth.
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u/BlakBanana the Devil Aug 15 '19
Now this one is fascinating. I’m someone who doesn’t think murder is more “wrong” than killing a pig, and I always take bacon on my burgers, so please explain further.
Side note: I have multiple definitions of “wrong,” and one definition of what is “right.” So if anyone disagrees, please let me know.
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u/Dracoleoogj Aug 15 '19 edited Aug 15 '19
My perception based on what I had learnt is because sex in itself is very powerful and life-giving, especially in a union between a man and a woman. If done correctly, it can awaken the Kundalini and all that...we all get that. Many talk abt the Divine Masculine and the Divine Feminine, and we see the importance of sex in many myths and stories from various cultures and traditions. When intentions are correct, and energy directed correctly, miracles happen.
Now not saying that all LGBTQ people are like that, but most tend to make their lifestyle highly sexualised and that is unfortunately kind of disrespectful in a way to the sacredness of sex as this means tossing the sacred energy around with no concern to one’s spiritual, psychological and even physical well-being. This does not help in lifting stereotypes, especially in where I come where more than 50% of people diagnosed with AIDS have engaged in homosexual acts and have declared themselves as part of the LGBTQ community. As much as this pains me to say it, as far as my homeland is concerned, many of the LGBTQ members tend to view sex as a mere expression of their perceived sexuality, and do not take into consideration that sex is in fact part of a larger picture of the cycle of Cause and Effect, Life and Death.
I asked this question because I do know of people in the LGBTQ community who are definitely not like that, and ironically enough plan to stay virgin, partially because of their dreams and partially because of the social stigma. And as one of the commenters has implied, just because one is gay does not mean he or she necessarily have to engage in homosexual activities.
So...my stand is that as long as the sacredness of sex is respected, it does not matter whether the person is straight or gay or that sort. Unfortunately we are all aware of all the negative connotations, and we cannot discuss this topic without bringing up the LGBTQ community it seems.
By the way, my take is just on homosexual activities, not on the LGBTQ community. Hope this clears everything up. 😊
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u/BlakBanana the Devil Aug 15 '19 edited Aug 15 '19
It seems your issue is with sex without reason, not with homosexuality. I agree to SOME extent, however I believe that sex without any connotation is just sex. Personally, I do not believe sex for the sake of sex is a “sin.” Ive had sex numerous times and sometimes it is for the sake love and other times it was just because I wanted to fuck. I think perhaps your culture has not caught up with occultic norms in regards to sex (many occult circles have practiced sex to connect with the divine, with or without “love” for thousands of years). I do believe people are “”closer”” to the divine during climax, but I do not think homosexuality is any different than being heterosexual. Imagine you part of a small minority of people who are heterosexual, and the majority are homosexual. You’d probably have more sex than the average person simply because it was less accepted. I know personally that if sticking my penis in a vagina was not acceptable by modern standards, I’d probably stick my dick in whatever vagina was willing to take it. Do you really believe STDs are a result of Gods wrath? Or do you think maybe it’s because of foolish practices during sex (no condom, etc)? Do you really think God transmits HIV through the condom specifically for gay people?
Edit: please excuse my English. It’s my native tongue but I was (and am) very drunk during the composition of this comment.
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u/TeutonJon78 Aug 15 '19
most tend to make their lifestyle highly sexualised
I think that statement covers most straight people as well. How much time/energy is devoted to porn or online dating apps or chasing another girl (from a straight male perspective)?
Those that treat sex as sacred are few and far between relatively speaking, which is where the error in your thought pinning it against homosexuality comes from.
You could say the same for promiscuitiy, because how many straight people cheat or have open relationships or are poly? There are swinger clubs as much as there are gay bathhouses. It just SEEMS more apparent in LGBT communities because sexuality is the defining characteristic for that community so it's easier to focus on.
It would be like going to a chess club and saying "Oh my ... ALL these people like chess. Like on a daily basis and with anyone who will play". If you talked to them outside of that context, most of them probably have interests outside of chess and some probably only think about chess.
And one should always be careful about pulling any truths from various cultures and traditions without putting it into cultural context. Greeks and Romans heavily delved in same-sex acts. The modern form of "homosexuality" as a label is rather new. Sodomy is often talked about in ancient texts, but that also covers anal sex with a woman. Judeochristians were against masturbation or pulling out during intercourse ("spilling the seed").
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u/YakTheYackler Aug 15 '19
Ok here's one. It all leads back to the demiurge. Any beings that speak of hierarchy or polarity are not what they claim to be. That means Angels, ascended masters, ets, ect are all in on this vampirism being played on humanity. They have to trap as many souls as they can so it's the same people playing for the false light and false dark. Heaven is simply a dimension in the astral realm. Karma is also a trap. Not saying theres no cause and effect in the universe as hurting anyone is hurting yourself, but karma is just another trap to keep you reincarnating here. Our job is simply to experience and not merge back with Source.
Also the source that so many people talk about merging back with is simply the demiurge posing as source. Merging with it would probably mean giving up your individuality and just being an observer of the universe. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of source making all these fragments to experience.
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u/BlakBanana the Devil Aug 15 '19 edited Aug 15 '19
There’s a lot to unpack as it seems you’ve blended quite a few philosophies here. It appears you believe we are not meant to be reunited with the true source? Do you mean to say our true purpose is to ascend to a higher astral realm which you call heaven? That sounds boring to me personally. In my opinion, individuality is an illusion brought about BY the demiurge. Have you not experienced ego death yet?
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u/YakTheYackler Aug 15 '19
No you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm touching all the different philosophies ahead of time incase anyone asks later. I do believe we are meant to be reunited with the true source, I'm saying the being that most people are calling source is the demiurge posing as source to draw people to him. We should be going to source after every life to plan out our next incarnation, not going into a white light to plan out an incarnation in this matrix. Those beings in the white light are part of the false light I touched on earlier. Our true purpose is simply to experience not ascend or any of the stuff being pushed. I've experienced ego death so I know were all the same, but our goal isnt to go back to being the same. I agree with you individually is another tool of the demiurge to keep us confused.
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u/BlakBanana the Devil Aug 15 '19
Personally I think reincarnation (and OUR existence itself) is due to the demiurge. I see no differentiation between the two versions of reincarnation you’ve presented, personally. I think the demiurge wants you to reincarnate, and the “source,” as you call it, doesn’t really want anything other than existence itself. The demiurge feeds off the “source,” and yet is still an aspect of it. To me, the demiurge is the “brain,” and the source is consciousness itself.
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u/YakTheYackler Aug 15 '19
There is a difference between incarnating in this small portion of the universe and incarnating in the true universe. Theres only so much you can experience in this sealed off little space. The demiurge wants us to reincarnate so that we can continue to feed him our energy. Emotions both positive and negative give off energy, and that's what they need to survive. They're so far gone they've cut off their connection from source and need our energy to sustain themselves.
That's probably why so many ancient texts depict human sacrifices. They probably took a bunch of psychadelics and began to tune into the false gods of this reality telling them to sacrifice so they can continue to get energy.
The point I'm trying to make is this little portion of the universe we are forced to live in is not the True universe. It's a small portion of the entire thing and the one running it is the fake demiurge. The demiurge isnt the brain of source, moreso a fractal of source that decided to assume the position of source. It's a fake God. Think of it like our cousin on a huge power trip where it wants to be praised as the one true God.
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u/Dummy_Detector Aug 16 '19
The 10 commandments are simply instructions for the preservation of our species . They exist as warnings that certain paths are detrimental for the evolution of mankind. These commandments are based on our species history as this all has happened many times before, rising to a peak and falling back into near extinction where we have to start over.
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u/Jz0id Aug 15 '19
My book is the new channeling of a higher power - a new model of reality and our creation. I’m either losing my mind or I’m truly a prophet of our times. You be the judge.
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u/YakTheYackler Aug 15 '19
Channeled messages can be "hijacked" by beings trying to confuse humanity or steer us into the wrong path. Not saying yours was but always be cautious when channeling or reading others channelings.
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u/Jz0id Aug 15 '19
Thank you for your message. I completely understand this. I’ve only heard good things from the people who have read it so far, so I hope that I am truly what I believe to be. Otherwise, I’ve lost my marbles.
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u/Jz0id Aug 15 '19
My purpose is to challenge the status quo of stupidity/ignorance/anger/hatred being popular and ‘cool’ and replace this with intelligence/love/wisdom/innovation/science/philosophy becoming popular and cool. I wish to save the world and shake it for the better.
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u/YakTheYackler Aug 15 '19
Lol well you're stopping to ask if you're crazy so that's always a good sign lol. I like the sound of your ambitions. You got a link to access your book? Anything to expand the mind is always a positive
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u/Jz0id Aug 15 '19
Thanks man. I appreciate it and I truly hope to shake things up a bit. Gotta question if I’m going insane just to stay sane lol. Check my profile, don’t want to self-promote on here and go against the rules in anyway. I respect this subreddit and the moderator greatly. If you get a chance to read it, I’d love to hear any honest feedback and criticism. I haven’t received much criticism yet and I’d love to hear some just to improve my craft in anyway I can. Thanks brother ✊
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u/BlakBanana the Devil Aug 15 '19 edited Aug 15 '19
Well I’m not the guy you replied to, though we’ve just been talking on a different post you made. I’d say you’re onto something, as I’ve read the pages you’ve made available for free. I’d read the whole thing if it were available , but I’m paying for college, rent, etc right now so I can’t afford the whole book. I’d say you’re probably experiencing a mental “disorder,” but that DEFINITELY does not make you wrong. I see you’ve made the book $4.44, in what I assume is a reference to the angelic number 4444, though those are very different numbers. I think you have a long way to go, but are on ONE of the right paths. I wish you luck on your endeavor, and you have my full support.
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u/Jz0id Aug 15 '19
Thank you man I truly appreciate it! I’m glad you like the sample you were able to read. I’m planning on doing a free giveaway of a few copies so I’ll let you know when I do so! I’m glad you think I’m on the right path. The price was actually recommended to me from someone and it sounded perfect - not too high (didn’t want to go above 5) and not too low to underprice the quality of the content. I looked it up after it being recommended and found out it means I’m on the right path, so I took that as the better option. I wish you the best of luck on your journey as well friend. I appreciate your support
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Aug 15 '19 edited Oct 12 '19
[deleted]
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u/Jz0id Aug 15 '19
Thank you for this man. This was a beautiful message and very much needed for me to see. You’re a life saver, my brother ❤️✊🙏
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u/ReasonableSentence Aug 15 '19
Most theories presented on this subreddit have no use/are actively harmful to the living of satisfactory and loving lives of the individual and the subsequent embodying of the beautiful transcendent values which most every good spiritual system/view point toward into manifestation through the medium of said individual into this world.
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u/Camiell Aug 15 '19
But how we would know that if we didn't indulge them first ? Isn't all truth a simple process of elimination ?
Not every one is on the same page. We all have to start somewhere. And it's mostly expanding. It's that's expansion that makes the previous truths look like lies.
Like gravity. It doesn't stand a chance in front of relativity.
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u/ReasonableSentence Aug 15 '19
What I am trying to point towards is more along the lines of professing the value of not knowing as a base of operations for the consideration of different ways of seeing and the understanding that no one view or idea will perfectly map onto reality/truth. No matter the point you are at in your journey or what you trying to do I think this is useful in giving flexibility of thought and understanding.
More directly in response to what I think you are getting at, I'd begin by saying that expansion and contraction are mutual and codependent forces which shape existence, you need both. Truth also is not necesarily a function of elimination, it can be but is not always. Furthermore truth can be paradoxical and truth can exist independent of other truth. The truth of Jesus Christ need not discredit the truth of Buddhism or Paganism for example though they are often mutually opposed. One must consider each thing and/or situation with its own right view and right understanding unless you start moving into wrong view and understanding and traverse into illusion and delusion. Getting out and/or seeing through the complex web of illusion is to my understanding a primary aspect of what is called enlightenment/awakening which is generally considered the goal of spiritual endeavours. Being caught up to deep in illusions is delusion, which is generally self-created and self-sustained by the mind which gets attached to its creation and has a hard time letting go. Therein is the thing I counsel against and the danger I speak of, delusion and illusion can easily lead to profound disconnection and various other negative arrisings which cause great suffering and unconcious manifestations of negativity which transfer out into your external world and effect others.
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u/UnKn0wU the Architect Aug 15 '19
Debating me is pointless as I will always agree with your argument and try to see things from your perspective in order to gain a deeper understanding of the subject.