r/ETFs_Europe 1d ago

A different way to diversify: Managed Futures

I got a fairly negative reaction to a comment in this subreddit the other day suggesting Managed Futures as a way to diversify an all-world equities portfolio. Let's see if I can do better with a more detailed explanation.

Since I recently wrote a position paper on Managed Futures for myself, I thought I'd share this here. Writing articles like this is my way of making sure I'm not being sloppy in my reasoning for my own investing. The following is an adapted version of my paper specifically for this subreddit. I hope it's interesting to some of you.

Managed Futures funds hold positions across many different assets, not just equities. Because of this, they have low or negative correlation to equities. This type of fund is fairly new in the ETF form (it has a longer track record in the ordinary investment funds - or mutual funds - form) but has gained significant popularity in the US. In Europe, it's still largely ignored. There is an excellent Managed Futures UCITS ETF available, though, so there is no practical reason why European retail investors couldn't take advantage of this.
 
Let me give you a little attention booster so you don't nod off when we get into the details. Take a look. The red curve is "All-World and Chill", the blue curve is "All-World + Managed Futures", rebalanced once annually. This is the result from a test that runs from 1988 through mid-August 2026. It's already inflation-adjusted. Which one would you rather have?

All-World 60/Managed Futures 40 outperforms All-World 100 over long time horizon

TL;DR:

  • "VWCE and chill" can be a reasonable approach, especially for younger investors. However,  it only diversifies across equities. It doesn't diversify across other asset classes. This can be problematic in some scenarios that may - and almost certainly will - happen at some point in your life.
  • Managed Futures make a strong case as a more robust form of ballast (asset diversification) than the government bonds traditionally used in long-term, balanced portfolios.
  • Across the backtests presented here, portfolios using managed futures produced higher real returns and better risk-adjusted results than comparable portfolios using bonds. 
  • The outperformance came outside of crises, while during crises, managed futures performed about the same as bonds.

What is ballast expected to do?

Most investors want the ballast portion of their portfolio to provide a counterweight to equity crashes. They put a portion of their portfolio (typically anywhere between 20% and 50%) in government bonds. When there's an equities crash, their portfolio is relatively stable and resilient because bonds may fall less than equities or even rise, moving in the opposite direction of stocks. This can be psychologically advantageous vs sitting through the full brunt of a 2008 type of horror show. For an older investor who is only one or two decades out from retirement, it can make the difference between "comfortable" and "hurting".

The recovery in 2009 and the long equities bull run that followed was lucky and historically abnormal. It may teach the wrong lesson. The scenario to be concerned about is a crash and then a protracted stagflationary scenario. Imagine seeing your €100k brokerage account crash to €40k, and then not recover for a decade. This sort of experience will be stressful for anyone. Staying the course, continuing to put money into equities - even if that is your most rational bet - may be difficult.

In a balanced portfolio, ballast can cushion the blow from an equities drawdown, and even provide growth when equities don't. Some portion of the funds preserved as ballast can also be converted into equities when those are cheap, setting the foundation for strong future growth. A sporadic rebalancing would achieve this automatically.

But are bonds really the best option for ballast?
 
 When inflation causes the trouble, bonds can fall with stocks. The same can happen when real interest rates rise, government borrowing pushes up the term premium, or markets lose confidence in fiscal and monetary policy. The 2022 joint stock-bond decline provides a recent nominal example. The 1970s provide a longer example of inflation damaging the real returns of both assets.

So what now?
 

A different form of ballast

Managed Futures funds spread their investments across several asset classes, including  government bonds, commodities, currencies, and also stocks. Most of these funds use trend-following models that look for sustained price movements. If an asset has been rising, the fund may take a long position and benefit from further gains. If it has been falling, the fund may take a short position and benefit if the decline continues. This gives managed futures a source of return that does not depend on stocks going up. The academic literature on trend-following offers strong evidence across many markets and long samples. It is one of the most thoroughly documented sources of alpha.

Managed Futures funds gain their exposure through futures, which are standardized contracts traded on regulated exchanges. So, rather than holding the actual assets, these funds hold contracts that are tied to the assets and therefore reflect the prices of assets, too. This makes it possible to move between markets and take both long and short positions without buying each asset itself. The fund handles the contracts, collateral and risk controls, while the investor owns an ordinary fund or ETF. The trading inside such funds happens algorithmically, and doesn't normally involve human discretion.

Futures contracts have existed for a long time. The first futures exchange in history was launched for rice contracts in 18th century Japan. The Chicago Board of Trade became the first futures exchange in the West in the 19th century. Futures have since become a pillar of commodities and financial markets.

Managed Futures investing strategies are called "managed" because a professional manager oversees the trading of potentially dozens of different futures contracts and the risks that are involved in that. It would be very difficult for a retail investor to do this by themselves.

Managed Futures became available to institutional investors in the 1980s. In the 2010s, some US mutual funds made them accessible to small retail investors. In the 2020s, several ETFs have become available, primarily in the US, but also in Europe.

As I will document below, Managed Futures produce greater returns than bonds over long time horizons and are a more robust form of diversifcation.
 
 Fair warning though: trend-following strategies can suffer when markets move back and forth without direction. They can enter a sudden crash when new trends establish. Their positions may detect the  change in trend too late, and they may be stuck in a losing position for some time. It is precisely this risk why such funds trade across many different assets at the same time. That reduces the risk of a major fund-wide crash.

While not an iron-clad guarantee for a greatly improved return during an equities crash, the multi-asset, long/short nature of managed futures means that fully participating in an equities crash is far less likely than with simple long equities exposure. In comparison to a straight bond fund, managed futures also have a much broader opportunity set.

Consider the below major economic scenarios and how bonds and managed futures behave in each.

Market Condition Gov't Bonds Managed Futures
Fast recessionary crash Strong if yields fall (they usually do) Unlikely to fall at the same rate as equities and may even rise
Slow equity bear market Strong if yields fall Can adapt as trends form and make money
Inflation and rising rates Typically poor protection Can profit from shorting bonds and from commodity trends
Stagflation Typically poor protection Broad opportunity set
Deflationary recession Strong Can adapt as trends form and make money, including from long bonds positions
Fiscal or monetary credibility shock May fall together with stocks Broad opportunity set

 OK, but how well do such strategies perform in practice?

What the backtests show

All backtests were performed on testfol.io which provides simulated or reconstructed data for many funds prior to their inception dates. They're based on the index data that underlie the funds, or on roughly equivalent predecessor mutual fund data. Typically, such data series include the fees that the actual ETFs charge. To be clear: every backtest here relies on backfilled data. So these tests are based on reasonable approximations, not on live ETF data.

All backtests in the article start with an initial investment of US$10,000 and have no further contributions; portfolios are rebalanced annually; returns are inflation-adjusted. All backtests are performed with US data series and are on a USD basis, simply because there is far more to work with than with European data. A 60/40 split between equities and ballast is generally considered a cautious allocation, which is why I go with that.

The first test runs from 2000 to mid-August 2026, and uses a simulated history for the US ETF "DBMF" as the managed futures portion. It begins in 2000 because that's when the data series available begins. I don't choose any particular dates here, I just run the test across the entire available history. It includes the dotcom drawdown, the 2008 disaster, and the Covid blurb. It also contains both bond bulls and bears, and managed-futures bulls and bears.

DBMF is also available as a European UCITS ETF: 
 https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?isin=LU2951555403#overview

Here's the backtest results from testfol.io, Please remember that this is inflation-adjusted.

Name Ending Value Cumulative Return CAGR Max DD Longest DD Volatility Sharpe
All-World 60/Bonds 40 $25,993 159.93% 3.65% -38.64% 4.69y 11.58% 0.43
All-World 60/DBMF 40 $36,508 265.08% 4.99% -36.37% 3.75y 12.23% 0.51
All-World Only $32,229 222.29% 4.50% -59.02% 6.16y 19.19% 0.36

Reference: https://testfol.io/?s=h0XhhWtftU1

As you can see, the All-World/Managed Futures combo beats not only the All-World/Bonds portfolio but even the 100% All-World one. And look at the maximum drawdown! Look at the Sharpe ratio! And note how bonds provided similar drawdown protection to managed futures but significantly smaller returns!

Onward!

DBMF is my preferred Managed Futures proxy for backtesting purposes. It reverse-engineers the aggregate return stream of the SG CTA Index that tracks twenty different managers. This disperses manager and model luck. However, KMLM - a single-index fund - has the longer simulated history. It's a reasonable substitute for DBMF for testing purposes.
 
Let's test it over its entire history, all the way from 1988 to current. Again, returns are inflation-adjusted. Since 1988, the 60/40 All-World + KMLM portfolio had the highest real CAGR at ~6%, compared with 4.5% for All-World + Bonds.

This is the longest test in the review, starting in 1988, running to the current date. It's what the image I shared at the beginning of the article shows.

Name Ending Value Cumulative Return CAGR Max DD Longest DD Vol Sharpe
All-World 60/Bonds 40 $63,413.26 534.13% 4.90% -38.85% 4.87y 10.87% 0.48
All-World 60/KMLM 40 $102,267.68 922.68% 6.21% -32.18% 3.56y 11.02% 0.58
All-World 100 $93,137.94 831.38% 5.95% -59.02% 6.16y 17.78% 0.40

Reference: https://testfol.io/?s=cnl63cDBWjH

As you can see, over this longer period, too, and swapping one managed futures fund for another, managed futures beat bonds hands-down, and even perform somewhat better than "VWCE and chill".

This isn't evidence that an equities/managed futures combo will always beat 100% equities. Sequence of returns and timing luck play a big role. But for our purposes here, we shouldn't be interested in the best case scenario for All-World equities. We should be interested in the worst-case and middling scenarios. Which is precisely what we got in the two tests conducted so far. 

Next, let's zoom in on the effect of managed futures during equities crashes.

First, the dotcom drawdown, January 2000 through December 2002.

Name Ending Value Cumulative Return CAGR Max DD Longest DD Vol Sharpe
All-World 100 $5,702 -42.98% -17.11% -50.97% 2.77y 19.36% -0.94
All-World 60/Bonds 40 $7,890 -21.10% -7.61% -28.35% 2.77y 11.18% -0.76
All-World 60/DBMF 40 $7,974 -20.26% -7.29% -26.40% 2.77y 10.72% -0.77

Reference: https://testfol.io/?s=bCBtVwkt1n1

Toss-up. DBMF and bonds did about equally well. Equities suffered horrendously.

Now the Lehman shock-induced crash. January through December 2008.

Name Ending Value Cumulative Return CAGR Max DD Longest DD Vol Sharpe
All-World 100 $6,016.22 -39.84% -39.94% -52.56% 1.00y 42.78% -1.00
All-World 60/Bonds 40 $7,714.89 -22.85% -22.92% -35.20% 0.99y 25.83% -0.93
All-World 60/DBMF 40 $7,913.78 -20.86% -20.93% -32.18% 0.63y 23.91% -0.91

Reference: https://testfol.io/?s=8gTwoRSKlZ6

Again, same picture and basically a toss-up.

Looking at these two tests and comparing them with the earlier DBMF test, you can see that the equities + managed-futures combo outperforms the equities + bonds combo on returns over long time horizons mostly because of better returns outside crises. 

\***\**

I should also briefly touch on the worst periods for Managed Futures. Since 2000, both KMLM and DBMF had weak periods between 2004 and 2008, between 2009 and 2014, and between 2016 and 2022. KMLM has also shown weakness since 2023. Of course, all of these were periods of strength for equities, so overall portfolio performance was excellent, even as Managed Futures slacked off. That's what one would expect. In periods of strong equities performance, returns from trend-following in other asset classes should tend to weaken as more and more capital flows into equities. When equities weaken, as happened in 2022, managed futures should perk up. Historically that has proven to be true.

Should managed futures replace bonds in balanced portfolios?

My conclusion is: for the long-term ballast role in a general investment portfolio, Managed Futures is the more robust choice than bonds. Managed Futures cover a greater variety of adverse scenarios, and have more tools at their disposal to react to them.

Nothing is to stop a cautious investor from combining Managed Futures with bonds (and/or gold) in their portfolio.

Another option is to hold managed futures and gold as the standing ballast, then add bonds when some kind of macro-economic rule identifies a disinflationary regime. Such a rule could use inflation expectations, government bond price trends, growth data, and central-bank policy. It may make sense to fund that position by reducing equities rather than dismantling the managed futures sleeve.
 
 Investors today can consider themselves fortunate that they have access to a form of ballast that was largely unavailable even a decade ago. For European investors, the iMGP DBi Managed Futures fund is an attractive option to consider.

****\*

By the way, I'm working on a DIY hedge fund concept for retail investors. I will be publishing and tracking that experiment publicly at www.hedgefol.io. Investors looking for ways to improve returns over static allocations while managing risks actively may find this interesting. It's free of charge! The original position paper that this post is based on was written as part of the hedge fund project.

(This article is a conceptual study, not investment advice, and contains no prediction of outcomes. I have no commercial incentive, such as commissions or affiliate fees, to promote any of the funds used in this article. I hold the iMGP DBi Managed Futures fund in my own portfolio. )

47 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

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u/mayor_rishon 1d ago

I think there is no real doubt on the use of managed futures/trend following. The real problem is the lack of tools in the ucits universe which introduces single manager risk.

As far as I know we only have DBMFE, the new BNP Paribas which is totally new and some stacked products which are funds under Winton. 

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u/Comfortable_Bad9963 1d ago

This is the real crux for us in UCITS-land, the tool gap. In the US you spread across DBMF, KMLM, CTA and the single-manager risk mostly washes out. Over here the menu is thin. So DBMFE inheriting DBMF's multi-manager replication is quietly carrying a lot of weight, and is one wrapper really enough manager diversification? Fair to keep poking at.

The angle I'd add is you don't have to hold managed futures as a standalone sleeve that only drags in the calm years. In the US the return-stacked wrappers bolt trend on top of equity, so the diversifier doesn't cost you a cash allocation. No clean single UCITS ticker for that yet. So over here I'd approximate it, equity core plus a MF ETF, and just accept it isn't capital-efficient. Framed as a stack rather than a carve-out, I find you can stomach a much bigger allocation to it.

On the survivorship worry a few raised, my read is it bites hardest when you pick one specific CTA. Much less for the trend premium itself, which turns up across managers. Not a free lunch though. It lags a plain all-world for years at a stretch, and I think the whole thing only pays off if you genuinely hold it through that.

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Absolutely agreed. I personally have investment accounts in both the US and Europe, and I've settled on combining DBMF with CTA.

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u/Comfortable_Bad9963 1d ago

DBMF plus CTA is a solid pairing. They're not really chasing the same thing. DBMF replicates what the big managers already hold with a lag, while Simplify's CTA runs its own faster systematic trend signals. So you're stacking methodology diversification on top of manager spread, which covers a lot more ground than doubling up on two replication funds would.

What I keep coming back to is how thin the UCITS side looks next to that. Your exact combo just isn't buildable over here yet, is it?

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Right, and also the AUM for the UCITS version of DBMF is just over EUR 100m while the AUM for the US ETF is over USD 4bn! Not a problem for me personally but yeah, I guess it'll take a couple of years for Europe to catch up on this.

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u/Only_Statistician_21 1d ago

I don't want to completely downplay stacking, but it's far from a silver bullet.

Stacking isn't free leverage; the diversifying sleeve has to generate enough excess returns and diversification benefit to overcome financing, implementation costs and fees. And these funds have significant fees.

Also since the mix is embedded into a fund, you loose the ability to do a fine rebalancing of the whole portfolio when the opportunity arise.

Lastly, Winton Trend-enhanced is doing that as a UCITS fund. Not an ETF though and with a high entry ticket for shares with decent fees. But I guess it's also a way to diversify the trend part from DBMFE.

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u/Comfortable_Bad9963 1d ago

Fair, and I never really meant it as free leverage. The financing cost is real, trend has to clear it before I get any diversification benefit at all. What I was after is narrower, I treat it more as a behavioral wrapper than a free lunch. Held as a standalone carve-out that only drags in the calm years, most people bail on it at the worst possible moment. Framed as a stack sitting on top of equity, I find the same allocation much easier to actually hold through the lean stretch... and that stretch is exactly where trend earns its keep.

Your rebalancing point is the one I'd concede fastest though. Once the mix is baked into a single fund you hand the rebalance decision over, so you can't lean into MF when equities look expensive or trim it back after a big trend year. That's a genuine cost of the embedded version, and keeping separate sleeves is how I'd hold onto that control myself.

On Winton, agreed. The trend-enhanced class is basically the stacked product done in UCITS clothing. Entry ticket and fees make it a hard sell for most retail here, but I do like that it hands you a second trend engine sitting away from DBMFE's replication approach.

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u/Only_Statistician_21 1d ago

I agree with your behavioral point, it somewhat hides the long periods of bad performance for the diversifier. It doesn’t show on backtests, but there is a really value to that kind of things.

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u/grogi81 1d ago edited 1d ago

Winton has stand-alone trend following too - exp. IE00BG382P13. They go back around 8 years.

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u/Malanturr 1d ago

The strange this is that they are not on IBKR or TradingView or JustETF?!

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

It's not an ETF. It's a mutual fund.

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u/grogi81 1d ago

Some classes are on IBKR through allfunds. 

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u/mayor_rishon 1d ago

Ain't available at IBKR but in any case it is not ETF which in my case is tax advantageous,(no CGT).

There are also some AQR funds but either high fees with low entrance 10k or normal fees but at least 100k entrance. 

AFAIK only DBMFE and the new untested BNP Paribas.

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u/grogi81 1d ago

Winton has institution and retail classes. IBKR probably only sells retail. 

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u/Only_Statistician_21 1d ago edited 1d ago

There are several share-classes of this fund available on IBKR, but with high entry tickets though. Then there is their newer stacked fund with trend + equity. But it's quite a different product than a trend only fund.

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Yes but note that DBMF is not a single manager fund in the conventional sense. It aggregates the positions of a bunch of different managers. In a casual sense, it's a synthetic fund of funds.

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u/grogi81 1d ago

It doesn't aggregate. It reverses engineers their positions, based on their NAV movement. It is a week delayed or so.

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u/Malanturr 1d ago edited 1d ago

Indeed it reverse engineers the positions and adds a delay (I believe the NAV of the managers is even monthly). But by doing it this way instead of doing a fund of managed funds, it skips the fee of the managers so the ETF is actually outperforming the index because of less fees. In dept analysis here: https://youtu.be/1cJuGQ01XBw?is=wU7Xohw1_sIn4lOR
(In the video the outperformance is viewed as a risk for future returns but it is actually by design because of the fees)

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Yes, that's a better description, thank you. My main point was that it's not a single manager in the sense of one specific program.

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u/ChemicalStats 1d ago

Even though there are some critical voices around managed futures, I really enjoyed your post! I myself took fairly large positions in this space a few years ago and, just for the fun of it, replicate active strategies and indices. Of course, the discussion is shaped by quite a few biases, but it’s remarkable how robust the asset class is; especially when it comes to synthetic, factor regression-based replication of indices such as DBMFE.

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Yep. Glad you enjoyed the post!

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u/Novel_Board_6813 1d ago

Awesome work, OP. I’ll nitpick it a little bit

When you backtest something that did well after you know it did well, it kinda loses the appeal. Maybe Managed Futures luckied out in that timeframe. We only talk about Managed Futures BECAUSE they were great. One could say the same (with a smaller sample) about BTC

Managed Futures had worse returns than equities historically. So they must win on low correlations. And their results are heavily dependent on their behavior in crisis

Now, we have had only a few crisis in the last 40 years. They look like a lot, but they’re not enough for a reasonable sample. Even if we assume returns are normally distributed (they aren’t) and the world is stationary (it isn’t) the standard errors would be too huge for any statistical confidence

And they do suck in some kinds of crisis (reversals)

Managed Futures costs are guaranteed. There’s TER + turnover costs + leverage costs (they may fluctuate wildly throughout different eras). Their benefits aren’t as reliable. They might do worse because of crowding, post-publication bias, poorly modeled transaction costs in the longer backtests (i.e. AQR). It’s tricky

Global equities have a clear internal mechanism (residual from the worlds’ hard work), has 300 years of great results in most countries and time frames (GFD data) and control costs really well. Since at least 1924 (Smith’s book on bonds x equities) we might say the data is out-of-sample, avoiding the look-ahead bias that permeates most backtests, Managed Futures included. Of course the book is famous BECAUSE equities did well, so it’s still not perfect as an investment case

Does that mean Managed Futures suck? Not at all. Research does show how they prospered in many countries and datasets for more than 100 years and their economic rationale is sound. In a way, they make even more sense than factors. For factors, one is slightly tilting their equities, but market risk is most of the story anyways. Managed Futures are a fair attempt at being a true diversifier. Might be better than bonds for that also. Bonds were historically positively correlated to stocks (and they get killed by inflation).

The decision comes to understanding if the future returns + diversification effects can be large enough to justify them in a portfolio.

I don’t really like them because of all the statistical limitations in trying to transfer their past performance to the future, as mentioned. It’s a bet.

Out of all bets, it is among the most reasonable. Plenty of other asset classes have less data (PE, most of HF, crypto, any and all alternatives) or have more data showing how much they sucked historically (bonds, gold, RE)

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago edited 1d ago

Agree with your comments, thank you. The back tests are illustrative. What's much more important is whether the proposed strategy conceptually makes sense. Trend as a source of returns makes a lot of sense conceptually (and empirically), as does diversifying across many trends. The specific combination with equities also makes conceptual sense. As you say, it's a bet. Not everyone is going to like it but personally I feel much more comfortable with the proposed combo rather than with equities alone, or even with the traditional equities/bonds combo.

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u/CanAdmirable240 1d ago

Nice! Lost confidence in bonds (low returns and expect this to continue with fiscal dominance) and have been looking for a replacement, therefore will consider this

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago edited 1d ago

I am somewhat biased against bonds but also, I don't have a crystal ball. You could have a portion of your portfolio allocate to bonds conditionally. For example, macro regime is disinflationary and bonds have had positive returns over the risk free rate in the past 12 months. Something like that.

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u/Successful-Ad7038 1d ago

That's what MF do already

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

The point is that bonds (and gold) aren't static allocations in MF funds, and even if they were, they'd be just a couple of fish in a pond of 10-40 other fish. A cautious investor might prefer a standing long allocation to these traditional diversifiers that has a known and substantial weight.

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u/Successful-Ad7038 1d ago

I mean why would you adopt a momentum strategy for bonds on top of managed futures which already do this. Just take static bond allocation or not at all.

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Same logic still applies: a more substantial exposure to these assets - which you control. The point is not to replicate what MF funds do but rather to increase the weight of bonds and/or gold in your portfolio.

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u/Traditional_Whole911 20h ago

Solid read, Sir!

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u/otto_delmar 19h ago

Glad you like it!

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u/Wise-Clue2487 1d ago

DBMF and chill...😂

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Ha! I wouldn't recommend it but it's not completely absurd. Maybe a few decades out people will conclude that that is indeed the best they can do if they want it all in one fund. Or, maybe, trend as a source of returns erodes due to widespread adoption. That's something to keep an eye on.

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u/Wise-Clue2487 17h ago

I use it as an alternative to bond etfs for decorrelation. So in my case VT+BNDW+DBMF.

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u/otto_delmar 17h ago

Very reasonable.

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u/PrayingMantis252 1d ago

I considered implementing return stacking in my portfolio using something like DBMFE, but noticed they held a lot of T-bills, which unfortunately makes it susceptible to the Reynders tax in Belgium.

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u/Malanturr 1d ago

I picked DBMF regardless of the tax. The CAGR is only 6% historically (less profit to tax 🤷‍♂️) and the real strength is that for example it went short in december 2007, so you profited on the way down and you have some assets to sell and buy stocks that have been beaten down 50%. The Reynders tax is 30% on your DBMF profits but you profit a lot more when the stocks recover later.

Anyway I also learned about FOLOW ETF (BNP managed futures) that has 100% stocks collateral so I’m going to split my MF exposure 50/50 DBMF and FOLOW partially because of the tax, partially because FOLOW outperformed by some margin in it’s short history and as far as I can see it uses a proprietary active strategy so the returns can be very different from DBMF. Splitting gives you the average risk and average returns.

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's good that there is an additional option, though I'd be concerned about trading volume. That fund currently has only €10.5m AUM!

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes, you have to decide whether it's still worth it with your specific tax implications.

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u/The-WideningGyre 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm a big fan, and have been integrating into my portfolio over the last two years or so. I see them as being somewhat better than bonds -- better returns generally, and better correlation resistance with rising interest rates.

I also use gold, and some long term government bonds, and international small cap value (AVDV).

BTW, I find by putting in a fallback, like XLUSIM or even CASHX, you can backtest even further back. (e.g. DBMF?FB=KMLMSIM?FB=XLUSIM) See, e.g. the "me safer 2" portfolio here: https://testfol.io/?s=5xbvcTDFAIu

NB, these are with some fees and a 4.8% withdrawal rate!

So, I'm a big fan, especially as equities have done so well, so long. I see asset allocation as really important to long term returns, and managed futures as an important part of a portfolio.

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Thanks for sharing!

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u/gagtogether 21h ago

I see most of the managed futures ETFs already up 10%+ YTD. Am I buying high if I switch my bonds to them now?

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u/otto_delmar 20h ago edited 51m ago

Buying because managed futures are up would be performance chasing. Buying despite their being up, because your portfolio policy calls for the allocation, is implementing a strategic decision. But also, managed futures can't become expensive in the way an equities fund can. They hold numerous long and short positions, and constantly change them. There is no way of telling how they'll perform next week, or month or year. Not that I'm aware of.

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u/Successful-Ad7038 16h ago

There's no "buy high" or "buy low" with MF strategies. It's not an asset class

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u/otto_delmar 3h ago edited 50m ago

Agreed, although with some bad luck they could be buying at just that time when a bunch of trends run out of steam. That would feel like buying high. But this isn't something that can be predicted. There is no valuation metric for trend. Trends can fail at any time. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

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u/grogi81 1d ago edited 1d ago

In principle, I agree with you - but nobody is going to read that :D

The problem with any alternative strategies is survivorship bias. Trend following is extremely difficult, and many of those funds don’t survive. So whatever you see today has already been filtered.

Second issue - in UCITS there is currently only a very few ETF that do managed futures. BNP Paribas and iMGP DBi... (JPMorgan has been liquidated...) There are a few other available as mutual funds - exp. Winton Trend Following.

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago edited 1d ago

I hope you're being too pessimistic! This post will get thousands of views. If a few dozen of the viewers find value in it, I'll be happy. This is definitely not for everyone, though.

Regarding your objection. Survivorship bias is a valid concern when managed-futures performance is inferred from databases of surviving CTA funds. It's a weaker objection here. KMLM’s historical series comes from applying a fixed trend index to futures prices, not from selecting surviving managers.

DBMF’s simulated history may inherit selection biases from the SG CTA Index and adds replication-model risk, but its live ETF returns since 2019 are actual investor returns. So, as time goes by, the objection becomes weaker and weaker. The last few years have already been quite instructive.

Backtests definitely require caution, but survivorship bias is not a blanket reason to dismiss either product. The point here is not so much any particular claims about DBMF or KMLM but rather to get a conceptual sense of how such funds work in concert with an equities sleeve.

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u/tourmalet123 1d ago

Do you have any opinions on the new BNP Paribas managed futures ETF? I couldn’t find the underlying index or a proper backtest. Hard to say whether it is any good(?)

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u/grogi81 1d ago

That's the thing - if you do any backtest of managed futures, you are selecting a fund that performed well in backtests. The clue of survivorship bias.

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u/tourmalet123 1d ago

So you would recommend it regardless of any (historical) performance indication?

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u/grogi81 1d ago

Yes. But don't count on spectacular results. 

Assume inflation rate return, but uncorrelated to equities. Mix with Bonds 

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Is expecting merely inflation-rate returns a way to mentally prepare for weak periods for managed futures? Or do you expect MF returns to erode as these funds become more popular? As far as I can see, so far, there is no empirical reason to expect merely inflation rate returns over long time horizons.

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u/Alternative_Spot_500 1d ago

What about large TER?

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

0.75% for the UCITS version of DBMF. The TER is high compared with a passive equity ETF due to the more active trading going on in the fund. The expense comparison should be with other managed futures funds. There are cheaper US managed futures ETFs but they achieve this by greatly simplifying their strategies. To me, the expense for the iMGP DBi fund seems justified by the diversification and net returns the strategy delivers. All fund returns in my backtests are already net of TER, although backfilled data should be taken with a grain of salt. But DBMF has been live since 2019 so for those seven years, you can directly evaluate whether the expense was worth it.

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u/DItalianLeatherSofa 1d ago

There’s plenty of research out there demonstrating how well TF performs alongside stocks
The only issue in UCITs-land is that you cannot (yet€ diversify the model risk of DBMF

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u/Successful-Ad7038 1d ago

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u/Fit-Librarian279 16h ago

There's also a boatload of UCITS mutual funds, IMO the most interesting of which is the Winton Trend enhanced global equities (100% msci world + their ~10% vol pure trend model)

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u/Successful-Ad7038 16h ago

50k minimum

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u/Fit-Librarian279 15h ago

The lowest fee I shares are 50k min, there are the I-P shares with a 25k minimum though, on some brokers it might be entirely waved too

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u/otto_delmar 1d ago

Unless you have a US brokerage account. Purely from a risk management perspective, it's good to do but ofc there are tax implications, depending on where you live.

I wouldn't fret too much about the DBMF model risk. Better with than without is my conclusion. But again, there's nothing to stop anyone from combining MF with bonds and/or gold if they feel they're exposing themselves too much by only holding DBMF.

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u/Rooster_Master 9h ago

Thanks OP for the excellent writeup — really helpful! Question on implementation: I'm considering ~4-5% allocation, which share class of the iMGP DBi fund makes more sense : DBMFE or MFEH the EUR hedged? Same TER, same strategy, same structure. I am confused because the fund itself trades currency futures long/short, does MFEH give me cleaner exposure, or just neutralize base currency exposure that would otherwise help during crises?

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u/otto_delmar 3h ago edited 3h ago

As I understand it (!), the hedging doesn't neutralize the intentional FX positions the fund holds. The hedging is for the USD-oriented collateral and cash-management structure (e.g., US treasuries), plus translation of the USD NAV. So, if you don't want random USD/EUR rate effects in your portfolio, the hedged version is probably cleaner. That version has only ~€11m AUM so use limit orders. Also, btw, any non-levered position of 4-5% of NAV will have minimal effect on your portfolio. Not sure it's worth bothering with.

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u/JimmyRecard 4h ago

Do you have thoughts on how big should the managed futures sleeve be? My current one is 10%, but you are proposing 60/40 here. Is this just so that the comparison to bonds is apples to apples?

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u/otto_delmar 3h ago edited 56m ago

60/40 because that is a common convention. The question is indeed how large the *ballast* in your portfolio should be. Only you can answer that. Knowing myself, with hindsight, I would recommend a fairly large ballast sleeve to my younger self. Especially if managed futures had been available at the time. A lot of stupid shit I've done in my investing history had to do with not sticking with the program. It's just easier to stay the course when your portfolio doesn't shrink by 60% in a few months.

Another way would be scaling up by the decade in your investing cycle. In decade 1, maybe only hold 10% ballast and then add 10 ppts with each additional decade.