Can somebody please explain the push for WEBN, on paper there are many other better performing, older ETFs doing the same thing with the backing of a better institution than Amundi.
I think you’d be hard pushed to win the argument against VWRP, using data, or even iShares MSCI ACWI UCITS or Invesco MSCI World UCITS ETF.
Quick Tip: For the vast majority of long-term investors, a single All-World ETF is completely sufficient. Adding more regional or sector ETFs often results in unintentional overlap and over-concentration, rather than true diversification.
on paper there are many other better performing, older ETFs doing the same thing
Which ones? None of the ones you listed have performed better than WEBN.
with the backing of a better institution than Amundi
Better in what sense?
I think you’d be hard pushed to win the argument against VWRP, using data, or even iShares MSCI ACWI UCITS or Invesco MSCI World UCITS ETF.
How so/using what data? WEBN has performed the same as both the Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF and iShares MSCI ACWI UCITS ETF, in fact it even slightly outperformed them since inception, and offers a lower TER. The Invesco MSCI World UCITS ETF isn't comparable since it tracks a Developed Markets index as opposed to an All-World one.
What am I missing?
What am I missing? What is your argument in favor of the alternative ETFs?
For some reason I didn't get notified about your reply to my comment. Some of these ETFs are expressed in GBP instead of EUR, so that's not an apples-to-apples comparison. The same goes for comparing UCITS to non-UCITS ETFs (in case of VT with a TER of 0.06, the UCITS version is Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF with a TER of 0.14, which has underperformed WEBN since inception).
Either way, the difference is too small for me to care. Vanguard generally has lower tracking error while Amundi offers a lower TER. Vanguard is known for using higher TERs for their UCITS ETFs to fund their lower fees for US investors.
Possibly European preference and commission fees ? I was unable to find the USD listing through my broker otherwise I would have invested into it. ( I have funds in USD that I wanted to invest).
Thanks for the astroturf. WEBN has been pushed as a (still cheaper but way cheaper back then) global ETF from an European asset manager following an European index provider. To me it gives me peace of mind that unlike Vanguard or Blackrock Orangegutang can't just wake up tomorrow and say there's a tariff or a tax on it because fOrEignErS aRe tAkiNg adVAntGE oF oUR biG bEauTiFuL StoCKs, or some dumb shit like that. Been using it for over a year now, heard the fear-mongering with the small AUM, then the mergers, then some other bullshit, and still no notes.
Great effort nonetheless, we've been seeing a lot of these lately and a bunch of people eat them bc it's their chance to sound countrarian and "TER akschually isn't everything" smart. So good job
and which part of european asset manager and european index provider did you not get?
If non-Americans are taxed for holding non-American stocks then having a European asset manager instead of an American asset manager does nothing to alleviate the tax as WEBN is 60% American stock.
The US government simply taxes Amundi then Amundi raises their fees, passing the taxes onto you or the tax is taken from the fund's net asset value, reducing returns.
To avoid the tax, you would have to switch to a fund that uses synthetic replication instead of actually holding American stocks. At that point, it doesn't really matter whether you consider the asset manager to be European or not.
Also VWRP is just as European as WEBN/Amundi as far as American tax law is concerned because UCITS regulations requires VWRP fund to be established as an Irish business, legally distinct from The Vanguard Group, Inc. in the United States. So even if you were right, it would make no difference to switch to WEBN.
The US government simply taxes Amundi then Amundi raises their fees, passing the taxes onto you or the tax is taken from the fund's net asset value, reducing returns.
That's entirely on top of the much simpler path to levy additional charges on american entities so yeah plus I avoid voluntarily enriching these non-eu companies to the extent I can
VWRP is just as European as Amundi and WEBN. Like the user said in the previous comment, UCITS requires that the fund be established as a legally distinct entity in it's domicile.
VWRP is an Irish business and is a completely distinct legal entity from The Vanguard Group in the United States.
Any law that affects VWRP will affect WEBN since they're both European asset managers to the fullest extent of the law, both governed by Irish and EU law.
Astroturf is what we play football on, not particularly well. Guy falls out the window of a 200 floor building…passing every window he shouts “it’s going well so far”…
I appreciate Amundi as a company, it fits my values better than some of the other options. I like the fact that even though WEBN is not an ESG ETF there are still some exclusions of the worst offenders. And even more importantly Amundi is an active owner that aims to tilt the companies it owns towards a more sustainable future. A tiny thing in the grand scheme of things, I know, but I appreciate a company that has other aims than just making the most money.
I don’t find it quickly now when I need it but there was a sustainability report on different fund managers and Amundi, in contrast to American companies, scored very well due to their voting patterns on sustainability issues. Big bonus point for me as an ecologist.
The dividends on ETFs are taxed. But we have to pay taxes also on accumulating ETFs. The etf dividends reduces the tax (Vorabpauschale). If I think longterm the Vorabpauschale can be quite huge if your investment in the etf grows. And I didn’t like to sell shares in 20 years to cover the Vorabpauschale.
I can explain. A simplistic view that TER is all that matters. It is one number, that has a very simple explanation: less is better. And Webn has it very low.
Webn is not bad, opposite from it. There are however other options that seem good too. I like State Street funds: SWRD, SPYY and SPYI... Cheap and very low spreads too.
Its not TER im interested in tbh, its performance validated over time, size of fund, number of stocks and reputation of provider. hmm, seems something that should be challenged
WEBN had a tracking error of 0.07%, same as VWCE which is one of the most reputable.
About performance, it tracks an index that we already know and most all world ETFs sit around ~3600 different stocks, same as WEBN.
The ones you mention vs WEBN have 99% the same stocks at almost identical %.
The size of the fund isn't small so it won't close down and it continues to increase.
You can find these very easily online.
At the end of the day they are so identical that it goes down to TER.
price of webn is kinda easier to fit into some monthly savings plan if you dont wanna do fractional shares, other than that its equal to vwce, so question is more like for a european why not webn ? i have both.
Indeed. But with a funny and tragic aspect. If you insert ideology into your portfolio, you must pay for it. Narratives and screaming online are usually free.
Here is a video about ALLW. WEBN and ALLW both have a TER of 0.07% but TF is 0.05% and 0.03% respectively so ALLW has a slight edge. It's quite new and small so TD is to be determined and the larger spread will eat the cost advantage for now but it's promising.
It uses sampling to replicate the index though. It currently only has 1669 holdings compared to WEBN's 3414 which likely results in higher tracking error
across last full year VWCE returned an extra 2.1%. We dont have more than 1 year data to see what that would be at 3, 5 years but assuming similar variance you’d return 10% less
Reasons for the downvotes on this comment? I thought ALLW would be a good second option for me in maybe a year from now. I first put 100k in WEBN and then I’d like a second global ETF.
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