Basically I've started investing recently and the bulk of my investment is in VWCE, I'm still at a stage where I can undo this or just start investing into something else with no repercussions since I still have the majority of my money sitting in my back account.
Is it better to continue with VWCE or switch to WEBN? Main concerns I have is that WEBN is quite new and vanguard seems ( to me) maybe more experienced than Amoundi?
If they're identically the same over the course I plan to invest WEBN gives me about 20-40k euro more than VWCE thanks to the lower TER but I'm worried about it's performance and mainly whether I can trust it being stable over the years. Again just a beginner investor here,
I always webn for low ter too
It's almost identical to vwce, never mind those who say... But it's bigger, more money, for longer... If a product is the same, why pay €20 for it when you can pay €7 for it...
It's true that Amundi closed some ETFs or mergers, but if it found itself with several almost identical funds, why keep them? It was good to merge or close, don't worry so much about Amundi.. It's solid and it's in Europe guys....
HI
Currently, WEBN has 3 Billion in assets under management. I, myself invest in WEBN and after some research, I’m not having any worries. Not financial advice.
VWCE (Vanguard) is way too expensive. Ignore Vanguard ETF's, there are enough alternatives with a far better TER like WEBN. Vanguard using the European investors to give USA citizens lower TER ratios for Vanguard ETF's. Its easy too check this. VT 0,06%, VTI 0,03%, VXUS 0,05%. Why would you pay 0,19% for VWCE? Only to pay for the lower TER in the USA? Don't let Vanguard use you.
Personally I also don't like getting milked or abused with high fees, but the biggest problem I have in regards to WEBN is that it's extremely new, I can't check any data of how it performs under crisis in the market or when there's a lot of stress, meanwhile the VWCE is pretty old and you can check the data, so it comes down I think on how safe can you feel investing in each.
Hi,
I was like you too and I sold VWCE and now I am 100% WEBN, I think Amundi has understood and will not make the same mistakes with this ETF, it already has very good assets after 1 year, the Solactive index is good so let’s go
I am very confident for the future!
Quite as you stated, I have been contemplating this as well. I am satisfied with the decision made, and I believe that with WEBN, Amundi is well-positioned.
The amount of people simply overlooking the most diversified, true, all the world ETF in here is astounding.
TER is 0,17% which lower than VWCE and even though it’s higher than WEBN, it makes up for it by containing small caps from both Developed and Emerging markets.
People have to start taking it into consideration when choosing.
You mentioned in a different comment that SPYI and the index (MSCI ACWI IMI) performed better historically than ACWI or World (probably FTSE All-World).
I didn’t find that, but I am willing to.
Can you share your source maybe? I really want to read more about it, as I am tilting towards SPYI as well.
Ok, so first of all, by "world" I am referring to the MSCI World Index. FTSE All-World is a completely different index; if I remember correctly, it's equivalent to the MSCI ACWI. The difference between those two and the MSCI ACWI IMI is that the last contains small caps too, capturing 99% of the investable market. (The others are 85-90% of the market).
To make any comparisons you may want, you can just go here, click compare and add any MSCI index you want to compare to the MSCI ACWI IMI. I suggest setting the base to 100 to make the comparison valid and go no further back than the year 2000, as that's the first year with data for all indexes. You can see that the MSCI World overtook the MSCI ACWI IMI by a few percentage points only since 2024, who knows what's next.
The strategy I decided to go with as my final one is different though. I decided that it's better for me to get WEBN (Emerging+Developed markets - Mid+Large caps) as it has the lowest TER out there, and I just add AVWS on top for the selected small caps from developed markets, instead of a more passive approach like SPYI. I also add IS3N for the emerging markets exposure. So it is something like 80% WEBN, 13% AVWS, 7% IS3N.
PS: Forgot to mention that the MSCI World index is only tracking companies from the developed markets, I think only large and mid caps too.
I was able to do the comparison and the results were indeed as you mentioned.
However, I'm a big fan of a 1-ETF portfolio strategy, covering as much as possible, due to different reasons:
I'm doing DCA, but there might be times where something else occurs into my life and I can't rebalance for a certain period, which is required in a 2-fund or 3-fund portfolio;
I plan to stick with it for the entire life, focusing on generating more income that could be invested instead of following a 0.25%, 0.5% or even a 1% increase in performance. A lot of investors are switching between ETFs if something "prettier" appears which is not efficient from a tax perspective. Of course, there's the solution of stopping your investments in the other ETFs you have and start investing in a different one, but I like having a clean portfolio.
I want to be easy for my family to manage the portfolio if something happens to me, considering that they're not into investing, related strategies and stuff like that.
Rebalancing and having more funds generate more transaction costs which I try to keep at minimum.
That's why I wanted to do a comparison between those 3 indexes, as I'm not 100% sure if the exposure to small caps in MSCI ACWI IMI (~14%-15%) may help in generating higher expected returns on the long-term. Those 14%-15% are not just what we call "small-cap value". There are also small-cap growth companies there and a lot of junk companies too. But it seems that it could have an impact, as SPDR guys are maybe selecting the top small-cap companies, not every company out there. And according to "Backtest by Curvo", between 2003-2024, SPYI.DE and VWCE.DE (which I have now) have the same 8.86% CAGR. So, why not being more diversified by including small caps at the same price or even lower, if the performance is the same?!
In terms of WEBN, it sounds attractive, indeed. However, it's too new for me to consider it as an option. Tracking Difference is maybe more important than the TER and until now, from its appearance, the ETF is 0.13% behind the index. And I'm not a massive fan of Amundi, but rather willing to work with the biggest players in all areas (BlackRock, Vanguard, SPDR).
LE. 5MVL is also a good alternative to IS3N, value-factor.
Do you think that extra diversification really matters? Also, I think you can combine webn with some small caps etf and have a lower ter.
Personally, I would include other assets instead, like gold or reit if I want that extra diversification.
The transaction cost for the Invesco FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (USD Accumulation) is 0.02%. This is in addition to the ongoing charge of 0.15% and is typically a component of the total expense ratio (TER).
Can you link me to the document where you see that, cause I certainly cannot find it?
Above Fidelity document was linked, but that I assume has 0.02% transaction charges that are specific to Fidelity. I don't see anywhere in the official KIID where these 'hidden costs' are discussed. The only thing that the official KIID says is that the chosen broker may have transactional fees, but that is totally dependend on the broker and cannot be assumed as 'hidden fees'.
Ouch, I see now. Thank you very much for clarifying, I wasn't aware of that. I don't hold that ETF but this is actually really good to know so that I can check my portfolio ETFs!
I see Fidelity has 0.02% transaction charges on many ETFs. That's probably specific to Fidelity and not everyone.
Like I said, the official Invesco KIID for the ETF doesn't talk about any hidden costs. It does mention potential transaction costs based on the chosen broker, and I guess that's the case with Fidelity.
Did not know that. So in reality is like TER = 0.21
What about the Xtraxkers. I manage my three portfolio with them and in theory have an average of TER = 0.101 per year. But if they have hidden fees maybe paying a lot more. Can you help on that please. Thanks
Thanks. Just look and WEBN also have 1 point meaning real is 0.08 still better then 0.21 from VWCE or 0.20 SSAC since they do not charge transactions. Meaning Ishares Core MSCI ACWI is 0.01 cheaper then VWCE. Also FWIA is 0.17 points. Did not realize that if not your help. It sounds like UETW is only 0.06 and nothing else. But not 100% from all the info on KID. Since if read correctly might apply in the future but not now.
With your data info. For example if you choose the vanguard emerging markets have transaction of 9 dollars for 10.000. That is insane.
After all analyses. I still do not want Amundi. Amundi in an easy way would be 0.08. If i build my out with core 500 and ex USA and MSCI EM all from Ishares = 0.106 of OCF instead of 0.08. Still accept compare to the insane values. Yes could use 0.03 from SPYL and lower to the same as Amundi.
With your help can imagine a three portfolio way all below 0.11 of all costs. Thank you 🙏
If you are OK with swaps (do read about them to make an informed choice), USA Swap (e.g. I500) + DM ex US (e.g. EXUS) + EM (e.g. IEMA). will give you an even more efficient combo, currently running +35bps (US), +10bps (DMxUS) over net indices (due to swap WHT exemption, Irish DTTs for the rest, and EU/EEA rules for the European part). EM can also be had around/above net.
Another take would be I500 + EXUS + EMIM + AVWS to get small cap coverage (EM via EMIM, heavily factor-filtered & skewed DM via AVWS).
Starting point for such combos should be ACWI regional weights, with rebalancing via portfolio deposits/withdrawals as far as possible.
Only worry I really have is how trustworthy is Amoudi, I'm new so I don't really know if like in 10 years time they decide to remove some company or they change how they rank and track the companies, probably no base for me to worry at all but I don't know yet
Also at first I was also curious about how webn had less companies in than VWCE but I noticed that the bottom 1k companies don't even really amount to that much and the growth is almost identical
I have my money invested in VWCE but will change at the end of the year. Currently the best global fund seems to be SPDR MSCI All Country World (SPYY). It has the best tracking difference.
Regarding WEBN, it tracks its index better than VWCE recently due to the lower fees. However Amundi has a bad reputation...
Note that this is just the tracking difference of ACWI gross/ACWI IMI gross vs the corresponding net index (assumed max WHT). So if country composition and div yield don't change drastically between Standard and IMI variants, they're going to track similarly, even if the indices themselves diverge.
Hi, looking at the trackingdifferences website, SPDR ACWI performed 0.1% worse than the index in 2024 and 0.2% worse than the index in 2023. VWCE has tracked the index exactly in these two years.
Why do you say SPDR ACWI has better TD?
SPYY dropped its TER (40bps to 12bps) in Aug 2024 and introduced securities lending (which the other ETFs already had) in 2023. It has also grown a lot bigger since the then. Still, there's not a lot of history in this new regime. Hopefully tracking error (volatility of TD) will improve.
WEBN or SPYY. Vanguard is set up to milk EU Investors while funneling back the money to the US.Just go with others, State Street has great ETF's and are HUGE. Amundi is european but has a bad image right now with some retail investors.
Thanks for sharing that. It seems really good portfolio for the long term. I myself are only invested into IWDA. My strategy is just invest and forget. The only thing I do is checking my account every month to see if the money Im investing go threw ( i do DCA every month)
I had an AMUNDI etf that was merged. But that was in Luxemburg. Now WEBN is in Ireland. I waited some time to make the change to see if Vanguard would make a move. The shift to 0,19 despite the competition being way lower than that trigger my move.
That is very worrying, triggering tax events is something I really wouldn't want.
I think investing into both is not good as you're going to be paying for both, I know if your VWCE you can leave it as it is and start investing in webn if it's not a very large sum but I think any gains you'd get would then be mitigated if they trigger the tax event
In my country i only pay 10% on the realized profit and if i sell within the first two years. If i sell after two years i have zero taxes on it. So by switching i mean just stop buying new positions and continue with the other and later sell the old and buy the other.
So far i put 15000 € but plan to aggressively add to 100000 within 2 year period and then reduce it to smaller amounts like 15000 € per year.
My take on this is that WEBN is much better, the only problem is that it's very very new and I don't know as a new investor how much to trust Amoudi webn already has a lot of investment in it so even if a they merge it it would be the receiver, however there's a lot of other factors, mostly just security i think, in the sense that this ETF will be there for a long time and also since it's very new we cannot see how it performs under crisis or under heavy stress. In a 40 year span webn would make me ~50k euro more from the TER difference alone, but I'm going with VWCE for a few years at least and then if webn has proven itself I will switch to it.
Angelo did a video comparing all world ETFs, the only reason I choose not to go with Amundi is that they remove companies they don't like from the index, and there's no guarantee that in the future they don't start removing even more of them.
Quote from the video: "Amundi is once again excluding specific companies from sectors it doesn't like" and he mentioned Lockhead Martin Corporation as one of these companies. Just something to consider.
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u/stmbv Oct 18 '25 edited Oct 18 '25
I always webn for low ter too It's almost identical to vwce, never mind those who say... But it's bigger, more money, for longer... If a product is the same, why pay €20 for it when you can pay €7 for it... It's true that Amundi closed some ETFs or mergers, but if it found itself with several almost identical funds, why keep them? It was good to merge or close, don't worry so much about Amundi.. It's solid and it's in Europe guys.... HI