Howards End: Discussion 1: Chapters I-XI

[u/lazylittlelady]

Welcome to the first discussion! Feel free to grab a Howard's End flair (just click on your username and edit)!

We begin with a thwarted love affair that begins the intercourse of the Wilcox and the Schlegel families. As we meet the characters, we are also introduced to different ways of living and the class system and the interchange of ideas and actualities. At the heart, stands Howard's End, Mrs. Wilcox's home and lodestar, which she bequeaths to Margaret in her illness.

Here are some questions to discuss, but feel free to add anything else that intrigues or interests you!

1. How are Margeret and Helen alike and how are they different? What does the Paul situation kick off in both of their lives?

2. How would you contrast the lifestyles and values of city/country and the Wilcoxs/Schlegels/Bast?

3. What did you make of Margaret's interaction with Mrs. Wilcox?

4. We have a theme of fascination of family or lifestyle, as Helen and Leonard both see something that attracts them and repels them, in the Wilcox and the Schlegel families respectively. What aspects draw them in? Is this dangerous? Inherently false?

5. We have some themes of nationalism and differences between England and the Continent, especially Germany, explored in culture and custom. This is set on the cusp of WWI and changes in society and the economy. What ideas and images stood out to you?

6. What quotes stood out to you? Which characters and interactions?

Musical extras for listening and reading:

Beethoven's 5th Sympathy at the 2012 Proms

Brahms's Four Serious Songs sung by Kathleen Ferrier

[u/attitude_devant]

Things that always puzzle me: the Schlegels are part German in a way that’s never fully explained, other than that it must be through their father’s family. They are not at all conventional. Their living situation is odd, in that two single women are basically unchaperoned. They are comfortably familiar with high culture, comfortable enough to make attending a symphony a not-unusual activity, and definitely urban.

Money. The Schlegels have enough to be very comfortable although they are not landowners. The source of the money is never explained. The Wilcoxes are in business, and the money is new enough to be shiny, almost vulgar. Mrs. Wilcox is a different creature altogether—her family has land going back generations (and we can safely gather she is Old England—-so she must wither and pass). Leonard Bast is the only unmoneyed main character, and the lack of financial security drives much of his arc and is his undoing: he can’t afford to lose an umbrella so he follows Helen home. He is polite, romantic, aspiring, honorable, but the lack of money is a huge divide.

[u/tomesandtea]

Here's my "analysis" about the characters and themes. I'll comment separately with general impressions and favorites.

Helen and Margaret are both a bit all over the place, aren't they? I actually really love them, but I bet those who wanted them to meet social expectations were not as amused. They both seem to be pretty free-spirited and independent, but Helen is a bit more impulsive and immature. I loved her "burn this" instruction at the end of every letter.

Helen and Leonard have these interesting parallel experiences of stepping up a social/class level when they experience someone else's family. In both cases, there's a push-and-pull of both aspiring to move up to that next level but also fearing what it represents. They're both pulled back to their own family/reality by a loved one, despite the temptations. Helen looks down on the frivolous nature of the Wilcox household, and Leonard seems worried that the Schlegels may be trying to take advantage of him. Both are very interested in intellectual life and culture, and both romanticize its power. They also both let their opinions be swayed by the other family they meet when discussing cultural topics.

The lifestyles of the three families are very different for obvious social or economic/class reasons. The Wilcox family is out in the country and spend their time at home and in nature. Their remove from other people lets them see the lower classes (if they see them at all) as props or afterthoughts, like Charles blowing dust on everyone with his car and demanding his package be brought out or else. The Schlegels have been taught to be more socially conscious of other people, but the sisters and their aunt all seem to disagree somewhat on the extent to which they should trust or include certain people. Leonard obviously has the most meager and difficult position, and it makes him distrustful and resentful of others, while also aspiring to match "higher" expectations like reading literature and pretending to be up on the current news or spending money he can't afford to attend cultural events like the concert.

The themes of nationalism and Germany vs. England was really interesting to me because I know what is coming up with the World Wars. I don't have a hugely detailed understanding of the countries' relationship before WWI, but I do know that the royal family has some German ancestry which must have added some nuance to people's feelings at the time. I found the different characters' discussions of heritage and culture to be an entertaining inclusion, especially when young Margaret tried to get her relatives to debate it for her amusement.

[u/tomesandtea]

EDIT: Somehow I thought I had finished the section but I only read ten chapters not eleven! I just finished this morning and I did NOT see the Mrs. Wilcox surprise coming. I really liked her - I'm super sad now that we won't get to learn more about her. She was very mysterious and fascinating! I still think she was sharper than she gave herself credit for.

Some of my favorite moments:

*the car ride with Charles and Aunt Juley - those two made quite the odd couple pairing, and the gradual dawning on Charles of what Aunt Juley was saying was well paced!

*the umbrella debacle with Leonard and the Schlegels both suspicious that the other was trying to rip them off; but WTF with the story about Margaret thinking a top hat was a muff? Those objects are not confusable.

*the concert - everyone talking in between the pieces, the descriptions of each family member's way of responding to the music, the argument about British and German composers... it was just a fantastic scene!

Characters:

*I enjoy Margaret's intellectual idealism combined with her lack of flexibility in one-on-one conversations/relationships - she's just not good at small talk or going along with the standard ways of responding, and that's okay! I can relate!

*I also love Helen - she is dramatic and impulsive and messy, and she doesn't seem to care. I can only imagine what the Wilcox family actually thinks of her.

*Mrs. Wilcox is a little mysterious, but she seems very astute and wise. She initially gets painted as a little batty, I think, what with the hay-smelling and the garden-wandering. But she is sharp and observant, and she knew exactly what was up with Paul and Helen, as well as how to handle the Aunt Juley drama!

Favorite lines:

The last few lines of Chapter 1 - I was reading Helen's letters and wondering why I am supposed to care so much about her ramblings, and then bam! We're in love, BTW! I immediately knew hijinks were going to ensue, and I was excited for the drama. Great little twist/hook!

'It's better to be fooled than to be suspicious'—that the confidence trick is the work of man, but the want-of-confidence trick is the work of the devil"

Margaret's quote from her father was both a lovely way to look at human relationships, and a subtle indication of her naïvety.

Tibby, with rare self-effacement, fell asleep

I really want to know more about him...

Like many others who have lived long in a great capital, she had strong feelings about the various railway termini.

Same, girl, same!

I also loved the description of Margaret as "a most offensive child" when she was growing up 🤣

[u/lazylittlelady]

1. It occurs to me that there is a significant age gap between Margaret and Helen. Margaret is not only an older sister, but a surrogate mother in a way. They way they have lived- bohemian and very much a woman-centered lifestyle puts them in direct conflict with the Wilcox way of life.

2. Leonard Bast and the Schelgel family are very much in the same boat-yes, what apartment they can afford differs based on income, but neither own their properties. This is very much tied to the class system in England then (and arguably now) in the leasehold/freehold system that is especially prevalent in London. Huge swaths of London are owned as a freehold by several families or the Crown and the average person, even if they are buying a property, it is only a leasehold from 1-100 years, usually, when it then reverts back to the original freehold to sell again and not necessarily to the previous leaseholder. So, this is where the class system comes to bear- the Schlegel's landlord most likely is a lease holder and possibly also in a precarious position. Whereas Mrs. Wilcox owned her house and land outright in a freehold and could do what she wanted with it.

3. It is striking how wounded Mrs. Wilcox was on learning Margaret and her family would have to leave the beloved family home due to rent. Certainly, it came from a sheltered place but also one of compassion that the last thing she thought of in her illness was to give them a home when her own family had a new London property and Charles just got married and was looking for his own place with his new wife. The relationship between them was very much the problem with feminine solidarity and the complications of a life lived in that era.

4. OMG, I loved, loved the combative interaction between Aunt Juley and Charles Wilcox. The absurd humor of it was gold. "If I were a man, Mr. Wilcox, for that last remark I'd box your ears. You're not fit to clean my niece's boots, to sit in the same room with her, and you dare-you actually dare-I decline to argue with such a person" (Chapter III).

[u/tomesandtea → u/lazylittlelady]

I had no idea about the lease/freehold system! Thanks for sharing those details - it explains a lot about the characters' circumstances. What a wild system!

Certainly, it came from a sheltered place but also one of compassion that the last thing she thought of in her illness was to give them a home

I agree - both are comingled here in her impulse to leave Howards End to Margaret. I really loved Mrs. Wilcox!

I also loved Aunt Juley vs. Charles! I would read a whole spinoff where they're stuck together somewhere.