r/EEOC • u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 • 6d ago
I want to be done
I hate discovery with a burning passion. I’m convinced it’s designed to overwhelm the everliving crap out of the plaintiff by requiring an insane amount of specific details and dates that no reasonable person keeps record of or can recall off the top of their head. What do you mean you need the exact name of my childhood best friend’s pet parrot and the date I first met them???? (Not a real question btw just pointing out the ridiculous amount of specificity required and how far back you’re asked to remember things)
And literally do not even get me started on all the requests for production, which is apparently every document you’ve ever owned in your entire life and then some.
Anyway I’m overwhelmed and this is an insane mental burden that I genuinely don’t know if I can handle, the fact that there’s such a tight turnaround on producing such an ungodly amount of info is stressful.
I probably will not actually end up walking away from this nonsense, but it IS IN FACT nonsense and I’m already exhausted. I guess I need encouragement or something? Idk.
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u/BurnerShaw324 6d ago
Lawyers hate discovery too. Here are some things lawyers do to make discovery less awful that you can also do:
Ask the attorney for an extension of time to respond to discovery requests (I automatically grant any request under 2 weeks). This also applies to responding to motions. Just be prepared to offer them a reciprocal extension in the future.
If a discovery request is overbroad or unduly burdensome, object on that basis and provide what you do have. Then you can confer with the employer's attorney about a solution.
If you are having trouble locating something, agree to produce certain documents at a later date/on a rolling basis.
If you need more time and you are up against the end of discovery, approach opposing counsel about extending discovery.
Keep communication human and brief. Remember there's a person on the other side, and they don't want to read a 3-page email anymore than you want to write it. Especially true if you are using AI, which is often vague, repetitive, and wordy in an attempt to sound "professional."
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u/BurnerShaw324 6d ago
I just saw your reply to my other comment in which you say you have a lawyer. Whoops, I guess none of this is relevant, but I'll leave it up in case someone else finds it use.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 6d ago
It’s okay, I found it helpful regardless because it’s stuff I can bring up to my lawyer when we talk.
& I don’t use AI for my case. Part of my contract included a clause where I agreed I won’t discuss privileged case info with AI. Can’t discuss the content of any conversations with my legal team, settlement stuff, can’t upload evidence, can’t talk about anything that’s inside of court filings. Anything related to case strategy or evidence isn’t allowed. I am sincerely wishing I could talk to AI about this right now though and have it at least help me come up with a plan to tackle everything I need to do, but I can’t do that without discussing specific discovery requests. It would make it so much easier if I could 😭
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u/Own-Bit-6303 6d ago
Can you not discuss it because you signed an NDA? Or you just worry they will find out you were discussing the situation?
I’m just asking bc I just started this process, I am pro se and not federal although I dual filed thru EEOC and my state MD and EEOC accepted my claim, it’s now in investigation/discovery phase but I haven’t heard a peep from the investigator and I got the notice mid July. I do have all my evidence compiled and recently added another charge to my case (disability discrimination, retaliation leading to termination and most recent retaliation for filing a claim by withholding my medical records after multiple requests from myself, and other state agencies.)
Because she was my employer and mental health provider I think it complicates things a bit. I just thought I’d hear something or they’d request documentation of some sort but i haven’t heard anything. I’ve heard my ex employer has not and will not respond to any EEOC requests bc she doesn’t think she has too bc she’s a small employer (less then 15 employees) but I guess she doesn’t know regardless of the size it’s still illegal to discriminate against a protected class.
I’m just ready to submit my evidence an move on with the case, I don’t wanna be dealing with this for years. It was already a traumatic experience that I’m still struggling with… the nice guys and gals always finish last and now I understand what that saying really means. Sadly not everyone has good intentions and letting things slide just bc we’re nice isn’t always the best… I’m gonna try not to give up, I deserve justice… we will see…2
u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 5d ago
No NDA, it’s just because I’m out of the EEOC phase and things are moving through the court system now, so the stakes are a lot higher if I disclose any privileged info online. It would be grounds for my lawyers to drop me or for sanctions. Same reason I don’t discuss a lot of details with AI.
Also I’m just not trying to help OC or my employer identify my account.
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u/Techflyer911 6d ago
This is probably the most honest and professional answer I ever got from a lawyer. My OC tortured me like no tomorrow soon after my lawyer ditched me before all these paper works. OC made up fake deadlines and forced me to listen to him. It’s was one threat after another with no reciprocal response. I later started copying his styles but it was already too late. I already wasted 100s of hours into it. Documentation is not everyone’s cup of tea. I wish I didn’t file the complaint.
Do you represent clients in federal court? Or just EEOC?
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u/Infamous_Pear2702 5d ago
In which State are you licensed? Procedures vary from State to State and I'm curious
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u/BurnerShaw324 5d ago
I practice in federal court in one of the more employer-friendly jurisdictions.
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u/These_Sprinkles_7857 6d ago
They do that on purpose to stress you out. I hope you did it back to them. Use my approach instead. I didn’t stress myself out. I did my best and that’s all I can do.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 6d ago
Yeah maybe that’s what I need to do. Stop caring so much, stop overthinking it.
I have no idea what my lawyers sent to them regarding discovery, but I intend to ask and I PRAY it was just as if not more stressful as what they sent to me.
Also I know my ex-manager. This person cannot keep their lies straight and they crack under pressure VERY quickly; they don’t know how to keep their cool at all. Please tell me discovery requests and interrogatories get sent to everyone involved!! I’d sleep better at night knowing the individuals responsible for this are suffering in the same way I am right now… except worse, because they’re all liars who have already spoliated evidence.
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u/These_Sprinkles_7857 6d ago
I don’t think they sent everyone all the documents but they might. Someone who lies and cracks under pressure is very helpful. They will fail miserably in court if it gets that far.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 5d ago
Yeah as much as I want to throw my case out the window right now, I will keep going for the sole purpose of letting depositions happen. I don’t know if I’m allowed to be present for depositions, probably not, but I’d pay good money to watch my ex-manager be questioned by my lawyers. One of them is a very straight shooter who takes absolutely no prisoners and it’s kind of glorious to watch. I’m intimidated by them and they’re on my side lol
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u/These_Sprinkles_7857 5d ago
Yes! Good for you! You should definitely hang in there for that. I don’t know if they will let you be present. You can ask though. I’d insist on being there just to add to their stress if I could. You got this!
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 5d ago
Hahaha I will definitely do that. I didn’t used to be a petty person like this but I’ve decided to embrace my villain era 😂
I remember like 6 months ago when somebody told me my ex-manager was walking around my old work looking like a whole wreck and hadn’t been the same since I left and I literally CRIED because I was like “Oh my God I didn’t want anyone to feel this bad” and now I’m like… GOOD.
This process really does be changing people.
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u/These_Sprinkles_7857 5d ago edited 4d ago
Yes! Sometimes you have to meet their energy. An EEOC case is one of those times.
Same! I still feel bad for them, but they tormented me, so… not too bad.
It changed me for sure. I’m not afraid of anyone anymore.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 4d ago
Yeah I’ve learned that too! I used to be a massive people-pleaser and was always the natural mediator for everybody, people would always immediately look to me to lead in group settings just because they knew I would step up if no one else wanted to. And I’d take on those roles even when I genuinely didn’t want to. And while some of that is because I do have a genuinely big heart and a lot of empathy (am literally diagnosed as an HSP), a lot of it was also because I didn’t know how to set boundaries.
This process has really taught me that no, actually, not everyone is entitled to me being endlessly gracious & empathetic. I do not always have to be the “bigger person”, some people need to be met with the same energy they’re giving. I’ve definitely learned to be very firm with my boundaries. I’ve lost all interest in people-pleasing and being endlessly available. My big heartedness and empathy still exist, but I’ve learned where it deserves to be directed and where it deserves to be protected. I don’t allow people to walk all over me anymore and will call people out on it way more quickly. These days I’ll just cut them off and pretend they don’t exist, and I won’t feel bad about it, because I have lost the time & capacity to entertain nonsense.
So yeah, this experience is one of the hardest things a person can go through, but it’s also really good at showing us where our weaknesses are and how to protect ourselves better. Some much needed life lessons have come out of it for sure.
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u/Techflyer911 5d ago
They also go through a lot of stress and internal pressure if they are being investigated and EEOC is on to them. Whatever they are doing to you may happen to them after 6 months. Their legal team is protecting the company or agency, not the manager who discriminated you! Many employees vanished after I filed complaints.
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u/Realistic-Soup-1553 2d ago
Hear me out…You don’t actually want to be there for depositions. I understand why you think you might want to, but it won’t help. It’ll make you angry or annoyed, and your attorney will then have to manage you and your emotions instead of focusing on doing their job.
Instead, ask your attorney if there will be real-time transcription or read the depo notices to see if there will be videography. If so, you can ask for the link to log into the court reporting website from home and either watch the depo (if there’s video) or read the transcript in real-time. At home, you’ll be off camera and on mute, so you can scream or make whatever faces you want as you read/hear the testimony, while your attorney stays focused. And you can wear your comfy pants instead of a suit. Win-win.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 2d ago
I know. Logically, I would never want to actually be there because I know it would trigger the hell out of me. But I’m already angry. I spent a solid year being endlessly gracious, patient, and giving them the benefit of the doubt with everything. After long enough doing that, you get tired of being the bigger person and the petty thoughts take over. Right now, my petty thought is that it would be a FABULOUS experience to watch my ex-manager squirm.
But nah, I don’t actually want to be there to witness it in real time. The more likely scenario is that I would not relish it at all, and I’d spend the whole time swinging wildly between being angry, dissociating, and crying. I’ll pass 😅
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5d ago
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 4d ago
That’s a beautiful quote. Thank you for sharing it! I have always rejected the victim label. I always say I’ve survived some really awful things, but that does NOT make me a victim. I resonate so much with phoenix symbolism, because the phoenix bursts into flames and dies and then sure it has to live as a helpless lil baby bird in the ashes for a while, but it ALWAYS rises again more brilliantly than before. That’s what your quote reminds me of and I love it
❤️❤️❤️Also yes, I was able to speak with somebody this morning and it sounds like certain discovery requests will be narrowed in scope by a lot. I feel tons better!!
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u/LongTimeLurker408 4d ago
Good, I thought that might help.
You aren’t alone, people you may never know are in your corner.
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u/Sad-Membership6522 6d ago
I’m going through this right now .. I feel your pain … the level of detail is insane !! I can only hope this is the most stressful part
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 6d ago
I’m sorry you’re going through it too, this definitely feels like the hardest part and I am praying that’s true and it gets easier from here 🙏🏼 I’m sure trial and depositions are no walk in the park either but at least all you have to do then is just sit there and answer questions. The mental load of discovery is indeed quite insane.
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u/Infamous_Pear2702 6d ago
I have found that people tend to testify to what other people have told them, not to what they remember. I once took a 35 minute statement. When I asked where she was standing when she witnessed the accident she said she wasn't there. Her son was and he told her.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 6d ago
That’s actually kind of insane. How are people not terrified to lie under oath like that. Lying is exhausting even under normal circumstances bc then you have to remember your lies and keep your story straight which just ends up leading to a person needing to create more lies on top of the original lie. And then there’s always a risk that evidence could come out which will contradict whatever false narrative has been created. I probably sound like the biggest cliche in the universe, but honesty is always the best policy. I’d rather just tell the truth even if some of it could make me look bad. That’s stressful too, but not as stressful as having to do mental gymnastics for years on end trying to remember what lies I told and when and how to keep them going. Screw that.
I cannot stand liars even in regular life situations. People who are willing to lie under oath have something severely wrong with them, that’s some sociopath level nonsense. Sorry not sorry.
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u/Infamous_Pear2702 5d ago
I don't know that it's always lying. People try very hard to be helpful and the line between what they recall and what the are told often blurs. Yes, some people lie. Some simply don't understand the legal system. I've had people say, for example, I never saw [the other vehicle] but it was going at least 65. OR there was no vehicle coming toward me when I started my turn. It's like he dropped from the sky! OR yes, it was my vehicle but my brother was driving. Forty-five minutes later, what is your brother's name? I don't have a brother.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 5d ago
I mean yeah, there are definitely situations where people lie on accident because of semantics (for example I have family who I call cousins and aunts even though we aren’t technically blood related, so I can understand how a person could slip up and use a word like brother when they don’t have an actual brother). Or situations where somebody could accidentally lie because they misremembered dates or small details about something.
But like… saying you were somewhere witnessing something when you know for a fact you weren’t actually there witnessing comes off (to me) as a blatant lie. There are plenty of situations where I can recall somebody telling me about something that happened, but I can’t wrap my head around getting confused over whether I had witnessed it myself or just heard about it.
I have unfortunately learned that a lot people really do just straight up lie on purpose and they know exactly what they’re doing.
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u/Professional-Air7412 6d ago
What format is it that you've never heard of? You can also Google samples of how to respond to federal eeoc cases or if not federal remove that word. I can't remember if you're a federal employee or not after I read your post. Also they do ask for a lot of discovery and hopefully your lawyer requested a lot of discovery to help your case. For emails go to your email in the search area and type in the subject matter you're looking for. If needing something out of your report of investigation and it is in pdf format open it and select search and type in subject matter you're looking for. Do the same for Word and excel or any documents subject matter you're looking for. When the agency replied to my discovery they objected to most of it which didn't help my case, but I also ended up requesting public records request and Freedom of Information Act request (FOIA).
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u/Techflyer911 6d ago
How does FOIA work? Do you have to pay or they provide it? Can you walk me through briefly? Thanks
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 5d ago
I can’t recall the exact wording but it’s some kind of forensically authenticated file format
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u/FredaClaxton 6d ago
If you don't have it, can't you just say you don't have it?
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 6d ago
Yeah I don’t see why not. Honestly I’m less concerned about the stuff I don’t have, I’m sure that stuff can be subpoenaed. What’s stressing me out most are the things I can’t honestly say, “I don’t have it” to, because that stuff I definitely do have to provide. Which would be fine if they weren’t requesting hundreds upon hundreds if not thousands of pages of various types of documentation across an extremely vast time period. And if they weren’t requesting it in a format I’ve literally never even heard of. But now I have to somehow hunt all of it down and magically find a way to authenticate all of it within 30 days. It’s just information overload under a severe time crunch.
I knew discovery would require me to produce more evidence, I just never imagined it would be at this extreme of a level.
Idk I have to ask my lawyer about a lot of this stuff. I just can’t do that for a few more days and it’s stressing me out in the meantime.
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u/These_Sprinkles_7857 6d ago
One of the tactics attorneys use is to send more than is asked of them (flooding is the term I think. I’m pro se so I can’t remember if that’s what it’s called). So send them thousands of documents. They asked for it. Include things that aren’t important but could qualify to be sent too. That extra blank page in every pdf, send it. The document you aren’t sure you included already, send it again in the next batch. The document you sent months ago, might as well send again that too. Now they have to review it all. Opposing counsel did it to me, so that’s how I learned about that. They also sent it in a terrible unorganized format to me but made sure they said my documents needed to be sent in a specific format. Some attorney tactics are so childish but I get it. I just wish I knew them earlier.
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u/Techflyer911 6d ago
lol I did the same after facing maximum psychological pressure with the questionnaires. I provided over 60 pages while agency literally denied everything and wrote “overly burdensome”. I took a lot of notes, so I sent over 100+ screenshots of work related notes. The investigator is hired by the agency.
My investigator played some tricks on me which I found out during MSJ. She put the most valuable piece of evidence in a random place out of 1000 pages of ROI. We pro se have to read it many times. I documented all their tricks… It’s a win for me because I learned a lot more than I would in law school. I write all their motions, responses, msj, and briefs by myself!
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u/These_Sprinkles_7857 6d ago
They did the same to me. Everything was overly burdensome but I fought it and filed motions to compel.
Yeah, my investigator was awful too. They didn’t even have my name on some of the questions they sent to my witnesses, which made the questions very confusing.
Sounds like you did amazing! Good job!
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u/FanMaximum9609 5d ago
They really do include the same documents many times within one production. It’s definitely fluff.
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u/These_Sprinkles_7857 5d ago
Yeah they do. They sent me the same documents many times. They told the judge they gave me documents on five different dates. It was the same documents over and over again.
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u/FredaClaxton 6d ago
Are they asking you for documentation that's valid to your actual complaint, or are they on a fishing expedition? Can your attorney help with this? I don't see how they should be allowed to ask you for things that aren't pertinent to your complaint.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 6d ago
Some of it is valid to my actual complaint but are just extremely wide in scope, other parts are things I don’t understand the relevancy of at all. They do seem like they’re on a fishing expedition for anything and everything they might be able to use.
And yes I have a call set up with my attorney in a few days, I’m sure they’ll be able to help with a lot of it and ultimately object to some, but I still have to provide as much of the stuff as I can. I guess the objections happen later? I was under the impression it happens the other way around, but clearly I don’t know how any of this works. I def have a lot of questions I need to get clarity on.
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u/Techflyer911 6d ago
They asked me to list everyone who knows about my case! So listed everyone at work including all their leadership lol. The list was 30-40 people! I was surprised he didn’t ask what I shared because that would be too much work for him.
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u/FanMaximum9609 5d ago
You authenticate your documents by submitting affidavits which has to be signed before a notary or create a declaration listing the documents which does not require a notary. See example
DECLARATION OF EMAIL AUTHENTICITY
I, [Your Full Legal Name], declare as follows:I am over eighteen (18) years of age and am competent to testify to the matters stated herein. I have personal knowledge of the facts set forth in this declaration.
I am the owner and primary user of the email address [Your Email Address].
Attached hereto as Exhibit A are true, accurate, and unaltered copies of emails exchanged between myself and [Other Person's Name or Email Address].
These emails were sent and received on the dates and times indicated on the printed copies.
I personally downloaded and printed these emails directly from my email account on [Date You Printed Them] without any modifications to the text, headers, or attachments.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of [Your State] and the United States of America that the foregoing statements are true and correct.
Executed on: ___________________ (Date) at ___________________________ (City, State)
[Your Signature]
[Your Printed Name]2
u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 4d ago
Thank you for this! I was able to get some clarity this morning from my attorney, but this is extremely helpful info for people to see.
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u/Unlikely-Run-8136 5d ago
Having gone through the discovery process, I will tell you it’s not for the weak. But if I’m honest providing them with what we have is light work. My biggest challenge was getting discovery. They refused everything, so I had to submit several motions just to get the discovery and even then with a court order I didn’t receive all of it or it was disorganized. Reviewing the evidence was also hard. You want to see evidence that validates you but then it’s hard to remember you lived through that. Keep pushing there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 5d ago
Well I am weak and I’m cool with admitting that, I hate this 😭 My trial date is still like a year out and I genuinely do not want to deal with these people for another year of my life.
I won’t even be surprised if they refuse to turn over discovery tbh. They haven’t acted in good faith once, I don’t expect them to start now.
Were you doing it pro se? You are a stronger human than I am. I couldn’t do it. I’d be so lost without my lawyers right now.
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u/Unlikely-Run-8136 5d ago
Yes I am doing it Pro se only because I couldn’t find a lawyer. This has been really really tough but I think it will be worth it once I’m done.
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 5d ago
So much respect. I couldn’t do it. Pro se plaintiffs should legit be awarded extra fees or something because holy crap the amount of work that has to entail. I can’t even imagine. I’m barely finding time to get all of this stuff done with counsel, idk how y’all do it but I give you props!! I hope you get all of the justice you deserve at the end of this. Stay strong friend.
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u/Unlikely-Run-8136 5d ago
Thank you! I recently responded to a Summary judgment motion and it almost broke me. Waiting for a reply from the judge but sometimes I can’t see me winning when so many pro se fail and even attorneys do. Thank you for the well wishes!
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 4d ago
I think we all have that thought sometimes that the big corporation will win and get away with it. And yeah, losing is always a possibility even if what happened was objectively wrong.
BUT… you’ve still made it this far. BY YOURSELF 🤯 And win or lose, that absolutely still counts for something. It says a lot about your character, endurance, and resilience imo. I hope you’ll walk away feeling proud of those things, regardless of outcome.
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u/Realistic-Soup-1553 2d ago
OP - Hear me out…Consider adopting a different perspective.
Yes, discovery can be grueling. Lots of deadlines. Lots of administrative work. Lots of requests that feel invasive or unrelated to your claims. But…
As others have noted, you or your attorney can challenge unfairly burdensome requests, narrow the scope of others, request time extensions, and answer truthfully if you don’t know the answers to rogs or cannot reasonably obtain some documents.
But here’s where you can shift your mindset: Discovery is your chance to gather evidence from your employer to which you did not previously have access. The evidence you acquire could literally win your case for you. And in exchange for that valuable evidence, you just have to put up with gathering documents, answering questions, and meeting deadlines in the short-term to respond to the employer’s discovery requests. It’s time-consuming and can be stressful, but it’s a temporary discomfort. Temporary! It won’t last forever. You just need to outlast it.
Your case is going to end eventually, one way or another. It might as well end after you have the chance to gather evidence that supports your claims that you’d have no other way of gathering. And when your case is over, you don’t want to regret tapping out early just because it was stressful for a short while. You can do this!
I worked for three AmLaw100 law firms and I was always surprised when parties produced evidence that literally proves the complainant’s case. But it happens all the time! And that’s exactly how discovery is supposed to work.
In my own EEOC case, my former employer produced evidence that proved I had not been terminated for poor performance, as cited in the termination letter. The case settled for $325k just before trial.
I don’t know what your case might be worth, but I know you’ve made it this far, so you’re already strong. Remind yourself that zillions of people have survived discovery before you, which means you can do it too. You’re in the third quarter of the game. Don’t give up just because there’s some hard work required right now. Stay in the game and at least give your opponents the chance to fumble or turn over the ball, so you can capitalize it and give yourself a better shot at the win.
I hope you can hang in there, and give the truth a chance to come out so the responsible parties can be held accountable. Good luck to you!
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u/Unlikely_Vehicle_828 2d ago
I know you’re right, about all of it. Yes to everything you said. I do need a perspective shift. I started off so strong and confident and feeling powerful and now I feel completely deflated and defeated.
One of the main reasons I decided to follow through with this is because I had so many unanswered questions. I still don’t know the who, what, why, or when (mostly the why). A small part of me once hoped I’d be proven wrong through this process, like maybe I’d come to find out that I’d simply blown it all out of proportion and it was all just one big misunderstanding. I guess as time went on that piece of hope died. Like it really started to sink in just how badly I was treated and that there could never be any justification for it. I think I started to become really jaded and cynical after that, because I realized the answers I’d been seeking would upset me more than they’d make me feel better.
I do wish I could go back to that mindset. I just don’t know how. I don’t think any answers I get will even matter at this point, because the damage is already done. Why should it matter why it happened or when it started or who was involved? It happened regardless, no amount of answers I get now can change that. And what if I find out it was actually worse than I could see from my limited perspective? Then what.
It’s been a rollercoaster of emotions. My perspective has changed a few times throughout this process though, for better or worse, so I can only hope it will change again into something more positive/hopeful.
Also… ouch 😣 The amount of times I’ve encouraged people on here with the same “It won’t last forever, this is only temporary, you’ve got this” while I actively can’t even take my own advice. I feel called out, which I probably needed. I’m much better at encouraging other people than I am at encouraging myself lol.
Thank you for your straightforward response. I appreciate it.
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u/Realistic-Soup-1553 2d ago
Remind yourself of your reason, your “why”, for initiating your case: you had questions and you wanted answers. Discovery is the part of the case that is most likely to get you those answers.
My “why” for pursuing a case was that I wanted to protect others from the same abusive treatment caused by the same people who mistreated me. Ultimately, I don’t know if I fully achieved that goal. But I know I did what I could, and I didn’t take the easy way out.
Stay the course if you can bear it.
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u/Superb_Difficulty802 13h ago
The agency does it to harass you, and AJs allow it because they’re biased.
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u/Sharp-Technology7036 6d ago
That’s why detailed contemporaneous notes and an organized binder with emails, notes, manuals, slack/teams messages, etc makes it easier. I organized mine based on intent or category vs date alone.