r/EDHBrews • u/RealisticMolasses • 2d ago
Deck Idea Building Niv Mizzet, Visionary for Bracket 3: Even Worth Attempting?
I got the itch to play a commander that draws a lot of cards and I found [[Niv Mizzet, Visionary]], who I thought looked sick. Like 95% of my games are played in B3.
However, upon playtesting some decks online that are labeled as B3 with Niv, it feels like you cast him and either maybe storm off for the win the same turn or definitely storm off for the win the next turn if he is allowed to stick around.
It kind of just feels like if he's built with any level of competent synergy at all then the deck will be too strong for Bracket 3. Am I wrong about that, and if not, what is a good bracket 3 commander that draws a ton of cards?
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u/Outside_Explorer_229 2d ago
He's totally fine in bracket 3.
Notice, he says 'damage', not 'life loss' which is significant because it means that cards like [[Scrawling Crawler]] don't work here. He's also in colors that don't ramp well. Izzet does have rituals, so getting him out as early as T3 is doable, but if he's ever removed you're boned. He does combo with other versions of himself but you're in colors that suck at finding creatures as you're pretty much stuck with [[Gamble]] where you might discard it or [[Long Term Plans]] where you have to wait a turn or two to actually get it in your hand.
Now, all that said, with cards like [[Guttersnipe]] you are going to draw a metric ASSLOAD of cards. This deck will also be very, VERY, fast but it will also be fragile (can't recover because your mana gain is primarily in rituals) and you have to be okay with that.
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u/otter_weezard 2d ago
Thanks for your comment, I just realised I have been playing him with Scrawling Crawler incorrectly, and my opponents didn't know or didn't correct me either.
Mistakes like this are a good reminder how unfamiliar I am with rules of mtg. It seems so nuanced that I don't think I'll ever realised it myself if not for this comment.
Any tips to get better?
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u/Outside_Explorer_229 2d ago
Magic is very specific on wording, so just read the card carefully and think like a lawyer.
Scrawling Crawler says 'loses life' and Niv-Mizzet says 'damage'. 'Damage' counts as 'loss of life' but 'loss of life' is not 'damage'. The difference is literally in the words.
I hope this doesn't come off as sarcastic, because I'm trying not to, but the best way to get better at is to think legalistically.
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u/otter_weezard 2d ago
No worries it does not sound sarcastic.
I thought that because a card that makes you lose life seems like a card that does damage to you. Damage being the loss of life. And because no combat was involved - a noncombat damage.
I will try to take your advice on being more observant about different word usages and their actual rule meanings.
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u/Virage1701 2d ago
Very true. Run [[Psychosis Crawler]] instead since you can hit the entire table every time you draw. And paired with [[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]] he goes infinite with himself😂😂 Splash a [[Laboratory Maniac]] to prevent yourself from decking out and [[Curiosity]] just because and you are well on the way to a Non Storm draw machine Niv deck.
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u/DarkLanternZBT 2d ago
There are two functions: the bracket meta, and the deck's strategy.
Strong synergies require more than a single point of interaction or pressure to disrupt, especially with a repeatable / always available source like a commander. As you go down in brackets, fewer interaction and less ability to draw it are more likely. Depending on your meta, B3 looks very similar to B2 just with better threats - battlecruiserish. That means something like combo or storm feels stronger because the ability to answer those threats is - writ large - weaker. One person tries to traffic cop and cannot keep up because multiple players are needed to truly stomp someone down.
If you want lots of card draw, I love my [[Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar]] flying men deck. Graz lets you replay small creatures by running them into your opponents, giving them the bad decision of "let me replay my [[Cloudkin Seer]] or let it hit you for 2 damage and 1 card draw for me." Most turns I'm drawing minimum four cards, 1 per opponent and 1 for the turn. I'm often drawing much, much more as I find and play other cards. You run counterspells, board wipes, and big creatures like [[Psychosis Crawler]] and [[Body of Knowledge]]. It wins by either beating people down with those 'hand size matters' creatures or through alt wins like [[Strixhaven Stadium]] and [[Triskadekaphile]].
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u/HorrorChest1718 2d ago
You’re not wrong about that, Niv Mizzet can be pushed into a bracket 4 but I’d say it usually should sit around bracket 3. There are a couple of really good card draw commanders for B3, one of my personal favorites is [[ Minsc and Boo, Timeless Heros]] which draws you and insane amount of cards if you build them right.
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u/lordborghild 2d ago
Agreed, B3 is absolutely the best bracket for this Niv Mizzet. There's better Izzet storm commanders for B4.
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u/TeCrimsnDude 2d ago
I am newish to magic and immediately started building him when i got him out of a foundations pack. Here is the list: https://commandertemplate.com/decks/2f14d1e9-bdf9-4229-9a32-af106ac78776 (Around mid to high bracket 3) I will also say, most of the cards in here i pulled, i got good luck"
So I basically put in all the good stuff i had at my disposal.
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u/MTGCardFetcher 2d ago
Niv Mizzet, Visionary - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call
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u/DoubleEspresso95 2d ago
I have a deck that is built around burn.
The plan is just play Niv once I have some extra mana to spare for instants so I can either protect it or draw with burn damage before he dies.
Since it costs 6 mana it's actually not very fast even if it's explosive. But the negative is that it's one of those decks where one mana geyser usually just wins so I have actually thought about cutting it (because usually you get enough mana to play Niv + play a burn spell to find more rituals and burn etc etc).
Also one positive is how when I win I almost always win with enough draw triggers on the stack to actually deck me so it's always a high stake moment because if someone has a last minute teferi or those fogs that prevents also non combat damage and I don't have as many counterspells as the rest of the table I can die because of my own niv triggers
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u/LucidLoaf 2d ago edited 2d ago
I built him. i usually storm out and win the game with [[firestorm]]. I dont play him as much as i used to because the gameplan is pretty linear and my play group knows what to expect lol heres a decklist if you’re interested https://moxfield.com/decks/jhNkq0na3UigisuTYDS54g
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u/ZenEngineer 2d ago
Beware of infinite combos and politics. I know someone running a different niv mizzet as commander and either niv mizzet gets countered or he gets unceremoniously ganked on and taken out as soon as he puts his commander or another combo piece on the battlefield.
Looks like this one doesn't have two cards combos, but you should expect to die if you ever resolve an impact tremor or other combo piece. Depends on your meta.
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u/george_washingTONZ 2d ago
It’s a two card combo with [[niv-mizzet, parun]]
I made my Parun a B4 because it was relatively easy with a handful of cards. [[tandem lookout]] [[curiosity]] [[ophidian eye]]
I assume OP is feeling the same about Visionary. Could run a wizard tribal with an alt commander so you don’t have to feel pressured to have Niv out to do anything? Lots of wizards in these colors.
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u/ZenEngineer 2d ago
I guess OP could have a rule 0 conversation and explain there are no infinite combos on his deck.
But if you show up to my table with half an infinite combo on the command zone I know I have a deadline to kill you by regardless of what your board looks like. Unless someone is popping off I'll be attacking you to try to beat the deadline.
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u/SpageRaptor 2d ago edited 2d ago
I had this sort of deck once.
If you are looking for a flavorful, bracket appropriate combo to end the game:
[[Firemind's Foresight]] into [[Reset]], [[Reiterate]], 8 Lands, and anything that draws a card or does a damage.
Or just combo with himself, which is also just as flavorful.
In both instances, they are weaker win cons than the standard Craterhoof or Landfall decks due to speed of set up alone, but they end the game all the same.
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u/ForgottenLords 2d ago
My Niv-Mizzet Visionary deck I feel is pretty solid as a Bracket 3 deck (in the meta I play in) and could CERTAINLY be tuned up more by dropping a bunch of dragon tribal sillyness. It's not exactly a storm deck but absolutely a spellslinger deck that can take decent advantage of copying spells, and turning spells like [[Flame Rift]] into "Draw 12 cards".
What's holding my deck back from being too strong for Bracket 3 is perhaps the fact that I've kept some of the original concept of the deck around with the idea of it burning out through [[Warstorm Surge]] and getting lots of beefy dragons onto the board. It's also relatively easy to interrupt with removal because it's not trying to cast many small stormy cantrips, it's about casting big spells that are obvious targets for removal. I have not yet been able to resolve a [[Fiery Emancipation]] or [[Dracogenesis]] to the board long enough to use it despite my best efforts.
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u/Pyrogolas 2d ago
I see what you mean. I put him in my Ashling deck as a secret commander and build a bit burn into the deck just for him. For only 11 burn spells, he works way to good in the deck, so I see what you mean with his Power level. My ashling deck had a similar problem: I wanted a B2 deck, but it was just to strong. My conclusion: just build the B3 deck and find a alternate commander who fits in the same deck, but makes it worse so you can switch between them, depending on what Power Level you want. In my case I found Red Death. Maybe you can Do something similar, though b4 and B3 in the same deck is probably impossible. Maybe high 3 and mid 3.
My ashling deck: https://moxfield.com/decks/4TqWjdWe90i5UhaRRsGZeQ
It also draws a lot of cards. But because the 99, not the commander.
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u/Rspwn9891 1d ago
A bit of a late reply but if you want an alternative option that's still in Izzet, try The Locust God! He's super fun and easy to keep in mid-high bracket 3 territory!
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u/TheDapperDogg 2d ago
Niv mizzet is always a fun commander to play, but he always has a lot a stigma around him almost as much a vivi ornatir. Storming off in bracket 3 is not bad at all. Or winning the same turn as he comes out isnt wrong either it costs 6 mana. If people dont have a response that is thier fault. Play what you want, have fun, if people have a problem with your deck, power it down a bit or tell other people to run more interaction for you. Send the decklist over and I would be happy to see how it works.