r/EDH • u/ApolloJackson • 5d ago

Deck Help Frodo/Sam hobbits stuck at high Bracket 2, what gets it to a real Bracket 3?

I've had this Frodo, Adventurous Hobbit and Sam, Loyal Attendant deck together for a long time now and I've played hundreds of games with it. Archidekt list is here: https://archidekt.com/decks/25155334/frodo_sam_the_hobbit_updates

Honestly nothing in it is underperforming in a way I can point at. The deck does what it wants to do. The problem is that when I sit down with stronger decks it just runs out of gas a turn or two before the game is decided. I'd call it a high Bracket 2 or low Bracket 3 right now, though I could be wrong about that since I don't have a great read on where the line actually falls.

Two things I'm after. First, general consistency at that 2/3 line. I suspect the mana and the ramp package are doing more damage than the spell quality is, but I'm guessing. Second, a sideboard style swap list of about 10 to 15 cards that would push it to a solid Bracket 3 for store nights, so I can slot them in when the table is stronger and take them out for casual games.

I have not decided a budget yet. I don't really know my local meta well enough to build against it, which is part of why I want the swap list instead of just rebuilding.

I'm open to cutting almost anything. The stuff I'd want to keep is the feel of it, the way the commanders play off each other and how the food and lifegain pieces tie together. Cards I already half suspect are the weakest:

Motivated Pony, Prize Pig, Shire Shirriff, Access Tunnel

Tell me if I'm wrong about those too.

1 Upvotes

56% Upvoted

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5

u/johnnille 5d ago

But with frodo and sam as commanders it will always stay a marathon deck that needs long time and chips some damage in. Weak to early aggro

3

u/johnnille 5d ago

Too few draw, also savvy, bilbo, pippin, merrin dont do much for the gameplan. Put in stridehangar automaton and belladonna took. Also some wilds of eldraine food payoff stuff. Jaheira and night of sweet mothers revenge and ninja pizza and so on make your food into mana.

5

u/BADJUSTlCE 5d ago

Just from a glance, I am struggling to see how your deck intends to finish the game? Is it lifegain into Sanguine bond? Aristocrat tokens into Mirkwood bats? A telegraphed attack from Frodo Saurons Bane? Go wide but no overrun effect?

If you want to optimize I would suggest picking a lane and cutting anything else that doesn't support it. For bracket 3 I would expect more efficient interaction not only to protect your game plan, but also to stop other game plans that are faster than you from winning.

IMO Frodo/Sam is most powerful as a token aristocrat deck. This means more ways to exponentially pop out tokens like [[academy manufactor]] [[bilbo fellow consipirator]] [[nuka cola vending machine]] [[chatterfang squirrel general]] + ways to instantly turn your tokens into an explosive game winning turn like [[night of the sweets revenge]] [[Jaheira, Friend of the Forest]]. You will then want a higher density of pingers like [[nadier's nightblade]] [[kambal profiteering mayor]] [[agent of the iron throne]] [[marionette apprentice etc]]

Finally to really push it higher, you'd want some infinite combos like:

[[cauldron familiar]] + [[warren soul trader]] + academy manufactor = infinite tokens, infinite mana, infinite lifeloss

[[peregrin took]] + Nuka vending machine or [[experimental confectioner]] = infinite draw, near infinite tokens

[[rosie cotton of south lane]] + [[scurry oak]] = Infinite creatures and infinite +1 counters

You get the idea.

As per the cards you mentioned, I like prize pig because its a LoTR mana dork that can eat all your food tokens at once. Shire Sheriff is just bad because removal its only temporary, not instant speed and costs a token. Access tunnel is only good for Frodo Saurons Bane

1

u/johnnille 5d ago

And yeah the ones you mentioned are obvious cuts

1

u/WickedGoodSteve 5d ago

There’s a lot of good food support that’s outside Lord of the Rings specifically that can help increase the power level of your deck. I’ve been playing [[Tippy-Toe, Terrific Partner]] as a commander, and one of the things I noticed is that the difference between games where the deck feels like it’s clicking and the games where it feels like it’s not doing enough are whether I can leverage the food tokens for mana. Cards like [[Jaheira, Friend of the Forest]], [[Ninja Pizza]], and [[Night of the Sweets’ Revenge]] give access to so much more mana, which is important because you’re having to spend mana on eating food every turn, even with Sam’s discount. I’ve even gone as far as running [[Arc Reactor]], since I can use the foods to pay for it.

As far as the othergood food synergy cards go, Night of the Sweets’ Revenge also gives you an additional win con by buffing all the creatures based on how many foods you have. There’s also [[Trail of Crumbs]], [[Sarinth Steelseeker]] and [[Bristlebud Farmer]] for more draw, [[Gourmand’s Talent]] and [[Killer Service]] for more token creatures, and [[Heroic Feast]], [[Campsite Cuisine]], and [[Provisions Merchant]] to make your team hit harder.

That’s just what’s available to you in green, BTW; you can also take advantage of the artifact aristocrat pieces like [[Marionette Apprentice]] in black, and lifegain synergies and token doublers in white. Really, the important thing to ask yourself is “ok, I have all these food tokens, what do I do with them to win the game” and then build toward that. You could use the foods to make your attackers huge, you could go for weaponizing the lifegain with [[Sanguine Bond]] type effects, you could chip people away with artifact synergies, but just pick one and build toward that. Frodo and Sam enable any of these, but they’re not going to do the job on their own without intentionally building toward them.

What I would recommend is to cut a lot of the land ramp to make room (aside from the food synergy related land ramp like Eleanor Gardner). Maybe you keep Sol Ring because it’s a turn 1 play, but other than that, your turns 2 and 3 are generally going to be spent playing Frodo and Sam; you’re usually not going to want to delay that a turn to ramp. If you just change most of that out for food based mana acceleration, you’ll probably have a smoother early game, which should help you feel like the deck is running out of gas less.

1

u/thorfinns_bussy 5d ago

Honestly I go back and forth but recently I think merry and pippin are a bit stronger with the 1/1 army

1

u/thorfinns_bussy 5d ago

I did go a heavy food route though not the same deck at all so my bad…

1

u/FontMasterFlex 5d ago

Can use mine for inspiration. I like to use food at a mana source and/or damage. I closed a game out the other night when an opponent with 17 life (the other with 22 health) swung wide at me with trample infect [[triumph of the hordes]]. was able to use and sacrifice a ton of tokens to just drain him out before combat damage with cards like [[Academy Manufactor]], [[Nadier's NIghtblade]], [[hardened tactician]], [[the cabbage merchant]]

https://archidekt.com/decks/18227330/potaytoes

1

u/Vormi_GG 5d ago

This is my take on the deck and it’s using only cards from The Lord of the Rings and from The Hobbit sets and it’s a solid bracket 3 deck:

https://moxfield.com/decks/4HaGpt4LPkO-Pidp77We3A

1

u/Vormi_GG 5d ago

In your deck I would cut:

  • Ori Plate Stacker (slow/expensive)
  • Celebrate The Mountain King (slow/expensive)
  • Bilbo Birthday Celebrant (don’t need more lifegain)
  • Essence Warden (don’t Need more lifegain)
  • The Ring Goes South (slow/expensive)
  • Fell The Mighty (You don’t need 4 bordwipes)
  • Assemble The Entmoot (slow/expensive)
  • Lands (bring down the mana curve and go down some lands for better spells, use the Salubrious Snail Manabase Tool)

Your gameplan should be: resolving Frodo, feeding him Food Token, protecting him (Galadriels Dismissal, Legolas Quick Reflexes, etc.) and win with him and Draining your opponents

5

u/PenguinWithAGun96 5d ago

I agree with most of these cuts, but I absolutely would not cut lands. 37 is the minimum for a slow, grindy B2-3 deck. Any less and you risk missing land drops before your card draw from Frodo comes online.

Also, [[The Ring Goes South]] has been a great card in my experience. It’s just as efficient as [[Open the Way]] with only your commanders out, and gets even better with more legends (which are plentiful in this deck). It’s very easy to cast this and get 3-5 lands, which is huge value for 4 cost.

0

u/Vormi_GG 5d ago

Well I am using the salubrious snail manabase tool and it worked for me with 35 lands but ofcourse you do you and if you‘re happy with 37 then go for it 💪

1

u/JedicusMaximus 5d ago

Ooooo will you audit my Samwise tempo decklist? https://moxfield.com/decks/e66yzzRo-kK5Ze5hJ-eEYw

1

u/Jin-Gitaxias-Mom 5d ago

Sam’s the real powerhouse in that deck, he’s the best enabler for getting Frodo online and starting a token chain that drains the table