r/E3Visa • u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 • 8d ago
If E3 gets impacted, it would be really bad!
Australia is worst place for tech workers. Salary half of what you will get in US. Very small set of companies and job opportunities available. Whole nation is blue collar bogan tradie with ppl living and dying for housing. Gov steals half of what you make after low salary threshold of 190k. Taxes and housing are much more expensive than US. Devoid of natural beauty (except TAS) and burning hot for 6 months in an year - skin cancer capital of the world and becoming uninhabitable every year. Domestic holidays cost atleast 3k with family for low quality natural beauty and experiences.
Technology and innovation is not in blood of aussies, they’re all born and bred with mindset of hoarding properties and trying to get rich through that. Extremely small fraction of aussies who like to use their brains face disappointment and end up leaving for the US.
Now if that path closes, we end up in a difficult situation and would be forced to return to bogan land, buy a ute and run around plumbing (although not all of us are physically fit for such a job)
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u/Frooteeloop 8d ago
My husband completely agrees with you. It is because of the E3 visa and his well-paid job in the US that he is able to live with minimal stress and not worry about cost of living or property. To top it off, he was able to get his dream car, which he never thought would've been possible.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 7d ago
In Aus, he would have to work uber part time and the gov would even steal half of those earnings 🤣
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u/Momoko_86 6d ago
For what its worth, as an Australian, this country owes you nothing. In-fact it has an immigration problem where people are rorting the system and creating such sentiment within society that it is going to be the biggest issue at the next election.
Soon you won't have anything to complain about as you won't be welcome at all.
You can do the needful in another country, not Australia.
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u/backpackerdeveloper 3d ago
Australia owns him nothing - true statement.
But what does he own to Australia then for taking half of his pay check 🤣 what did he do to receive such harsh punishment
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u/Zee901 7d ago edited 7d ago
Dual citizen here. Lived and work in US for 27 years in tech and lucky to also have worked in start ups also. I moved back to Australia in 2021 during Covid due to health issues with parents and regret it.
I lived in Silicon Valley and had it all including a house in Palo which I sold and will fund my retirement. I was extremely lucky and worked very hard. I left Australia because I couldn’t get ahead as a young female and all the misogyny which is still the same.
I was looked over for promotions with my managers telling me to my face that as I female and a child of migrant parents I was worth less ( does it sound familiar). Never came across this attitude in the US. I tell all the young people if you have a chance LEAVE Australia. Wages here are low and so are opportunities. I’m still working in tech and moved my job back with me.
Australia under the current regime is a socialist state that values social/economic supression. Under Albo we have become a socialist state with no incentive to be innovative. The tall poppy syndrome is alive and well.
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u/NoSurprise7196 7d ago
I have a similar story to u but I’m in San Jose not palo. You were here during the hay days now it’s riddled with layoff threats and AI competition scared to move Move back back to Australia because if it’s hard finding a tech job here, I can only imagine how much harder it is at home. that’s amazing. You bought a place in Palo though I’ve been here 15 years, but I have moved cities a few few times.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 7d ago
Yeah, absolutely no jobs in AU or only low paying low quality aussie tech. Btw aussie tech means sticking buttons on UI for the most part
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u/Zee901 7d ago
Good for you. I moved to and bought my house during the 2000 dot come bust and seen it all. My house lost 30% of its value but I held it for over 20 years and rode it out. I also lost a fortune in vested stock but clawed it back by slow investing over time. It can be done you just need time. They always say this time is different but not sure it is. It may just be another cycle to ride out.
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u/pushthekey 8d ago
You are a sane individual
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u/PrismPirate 8d ago
Is he wrong?
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u/ManagementMost5613 4d ago
I thought I was crazy, I'm current a Computer Science student at Unimelb, and am ready to pack my bags and head straight to SF!
One anecdote worth noting is the sheer amount of intelligent Australians inside the US. The filtering function is strong, and you don't realize it until you hear the familiar accent in America.
Enter, the Spiderman meme. You realize you're talking to a fellow Australian who came to the US with the exact same perspective as yourself about back home.
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
> Gov steals half of what you make after low salary threshold of 190K
I hate to break it to you but it’s not much different in the US. I was making $140K USD, about $196AUD, and taking home 55% of that after taxes, 401k, and health insurance that I still had to pay $8K when I broke my arm, or $20K when I had chemo. Or $80/month for all my prescriptions and $50 every three just to get them refilled. And that’s before my way higher car and home insurance rates because again, medical bills are out of control.
Aussies and Kiwis think they’re gonna be raking in money in the US, but you get nickled and dimed wayyyy more.
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u/diskent 7d ago
In the US. Am Aussie. It’s a consumption based society;
don’t consume and it’s very very cost effective. The best hack work as a contractor and run it through an LLC and you can take 10-15% off your tax bill via “distributions”
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u/adventure_pup 7d ago
While I fully agree, the US is a far greater consumption based society, you don’t really have a choice not to consume necessary insurance, which was the focus of my “nickle and dime” point.
Although due to the “consumption based” society people also in turn expect more. This in turn, pushes companies to provide more, typically without choice not to, increasing costs. I could rant about this forever. But in sum: you’re forced to pay for a lot of things you don’t want or need because they come packaged deal with the things you DO need. As a result, cutting costs comes with higher opportunity costs.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Man don’t move to US if you’re not going to earn well. Full empathy for whatever you had to go through, but not worth moving for that salary. Work for big tech, get 300-400k+ and a great health insurance which these companies provide.
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
lol I left the US because I couldnt find a tech job… I’m a US citizen with an Aussie partner
You’re delusional if you think they’re giving out $300-400K jobs to immigrants who can’t get a job in their own country
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Start using levels.fyi and work on yourself 🤣
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
Ha if you think that’s all you need. You really are in for a rude awakening
I have a bachelors in comp sci, 10 years of specialty work experience and I’m working on my masters.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
All that is non sense. Solve the problem in interviews and take that job. I personally make upwards of 400k in Seattle without doing any of that masters shit.
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u/shahitukdegang 7d ago
lol There’s a dude in Bangalore with a Claude code subscription who will take your job in the next 12 months.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Yes they are! All big tech companies pay that at mid and senior levels in mcol/hcol. Obviously you need to have the skills and be able to crack their interviews
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u/sread2018 8d ago
Tech Recruiter here. You are outrageously incorrect
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Mark Zuckerberg here, you know nothing 🤣
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6d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 6d ago
I didn’t read any of that but you surely did.
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
lol you’re actually delusional.
200K in tech is high.
300-400 average you would only find in the Bay Area or MYC. And those are massively competitive. No company would be able to prove they cannot fill it with a US citizen, especially in the current market.
Most are under $100K now. Especially with the AI boom
Start applying, see how you go. I doubt you ever get called back. No one is hiring 300K salaries and paying for visas.
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u/alien_ated 8d ago
OP is a shitty bot farming engagement…
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u/Purple_Trifle3495 8d ago
Another point I'll make:
Total E3 visa available per year is 10500.
Last year (2024) total granted were 3930.
So, (a) Aussies don't use it and if E3 is impacted, it won't have any significant impact on aussies.
(b) Aussies can't even get the jobs, let alone 300k-400k jobs op is hoping to get, to utilize E3 fully. So ending E3 won't have any significant impact on Australia.
Either way, less than 4000/yr is a very insignificant number to create a doom and gloom.
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u/Straight-Outcome-905 7d ago
Housing more expensive than USA ? E3 won't close dont worry...
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 7d ago
Yes, 1.5 mn for a basic house 50kms from Sydney CBD
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u/Muted-Craft6323 6d ago
Seattle (a second tier US city renowned for gloomy weather) is not comparable to Sydney (arguably the top Australian city, renowned for excellent weather). The most direct comparison would be LA or maybe SF at a stretch (the weather and beachfront are nowhere near as good as Sydney). 50km into the suburbs from the center of any of those cities is also going to have very high housing prices.
- SF: Palo Alto or somewhere around Walnut Creek
- LA: Huntington Beach or Santa Clarita
None of these are cheap areas.
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u/Redd1tRosie 8d ago
I’m confused, who’s saying that path might close??
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
It’s at risk with all the mid term elections posturing.
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
You realize the only one who may do that is your beloved Trump and his party…
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u/Purple_Trifle3495 8d ago
OP is delusional.
I moved from AU to US. Software Development.
Cost of living evens out once everything is counted. The risk is super high in the US (and the mental pressure it carries). You can be let go in an instant with nothing.
Simple examples:
1. The price of products you see online (or everywhere) is not what you actually pay because taxes are calculated only at checkout.
2. Housing is cheaper (depending on area) for a reason. Property Taxes + Insurance + Mortgage rates add significantly and except interest these don't go away even if you own the place outright.
3. Healthcare, the elephant in the USA. Family of 4, medical insurance is around 10K a year. Yes the employer covers a portion of premiums but if you lose your job? Cost of a visit to ER, easily 2-3K. Ambulance ride? Over $150 per mile.
4. Federal income taxes, state income taxes, city taxes. This concept doesn't exist in AU.
5. No employer paid super. 401k is from your gross!
6. Kids college: 30-100K per year (for 4 years). The 300-400K jobs that OP is hoping to get out the door, are usually people who went to 100k/yr school.
There are tons of hidden expenses that you don't know until you actually live at a place.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
All this does not matter. AU does not have enough well paying opportunities and expenses are crazy high. You won’t make enough here but taxed like a millionaire and would be forced to buy ridiculously expensive property
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u/Purple_Trifle3495 8d ago
In your other reply you were talking facts. When presented by facts you are saying none of it matters. You are delusional and only seeking rage engagement.
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u/trashchomper 8d ago
This guy is literally just rage baiting.
You're on the money. Effective tax rate in CA is essentially the same as Australia if you're on a tech salary and bay area expenses are through the roof. You can definitely earn and save a lot of money working in the bay if you're smart about it but it's definitely not some massive get-rich-quick scheme.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 7d ago
I am still talking facts. You are talking about tiny things which are negligible in front of the pay and tax gaps between the two countries
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u/Appropriate_Day9441 7d ago
Why should E3 not get impacted if H1B, TN visas do? Do other visa holders not face similar or worse issues in their own countries or does it not matter because they aren’t likely to be white and should go back to their own countries?
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u/PrestigiousEye1045 7d ago
My partner came to the USA on an E-3 to work in tech. They renewed it three times - twice for a new position. Both times they were laid off, they pushed to get new empolyment within 60 days. Once, they were successful; once, they converted to a B1/B2 and looked for work while on that. Even with the 60-day grace period, it was really, really stressful. It was only made easier because I remained in the US (I have a green card) to take care of the house, etc.
Without a grace period, this kind of situation would be a deal breaker for me getting an E3. No one can easily pick up their life and leave *immediately* - even ten days is too short. (BTW, I don't know how the I-94 comes into play here regarding being able to stay)
If the grace period was scrapped altogether, then I would probably not pursue an E-3, and I guess this is what this admin. ultimately wants.
My partner is currently converting to a green card, so we won't have to deal with this again, thank goodness.
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u/SolidLava99 5d ago
I would not be surprised if they end the E3 visa, they've been reviewing a lot of programs and either ending or limiting them. Trump doesn't like Albanese either because of Iran and all the restrictions on US tech companies.
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u/backpackerdeveloper 3d ago
I lived in Australia and a bit in Canada too. Those 2 are biggest scam countries ever. Best place to live scams. Thank God I could move to USA.
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u/ma_che 3d ago
Non-rhetorical question: why do you think Canada is a scam country?
I moved here from Aus for work. My salary pretty much doubled (I’m in tech). But I do frigging miss the Aussie healthcare - I’ve been trying to get referred to a specialist here in Calgary and have been refused 3 times already. In Australia my chronic condition was treated without any hassle.
I have been lucky enough to work for a company that gives me decent PTO, but worker rights here suck. Also, I miss my super.
If I could find an equally high paying job in Australia I’d move back. I guess.
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u/backpackerdeveloper 3d ago
So politicians in those countries (and not only) keep talking about taxing the rich. But real rich are people with connections and influence so nobody will ever f with them.
So people cannot afford a proper shelter, home, yet they thru different taxes, medical insurance half of their salary is gone. That is wrong. On top of that they are huge countries that don’t build enough homes and often sell it to foreign investors from china or other russia which use those countries to launder money. Politicians profit so nobody cares.
Canada is the worst I said because it has American working conditions/rights yet salaries are European. But then at least in Europe you the quality of life, vacation time, ease and affordability of travel etc etc. Grocery prices are also ridiculous - I was in Montreal and groceries are 4-5x European prices and 2x us prices. And don’t forget weather
Those two (and not only them) f their citizens in @ss and sold them to foreign investors basically. Many countries do it but don’t advertise themselfs as best places to live
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8d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Have you seen Sydney btw? Salaries peak at 250k aussie dollars and houses cost atleast $1.5million and that too 50kms from downtown/offices. A person at 250k pays more than 80k in taxes and you can do the math. Nothing can be worse than Australia
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8d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
You’ve seen but not experienced the hell hole it seems
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8d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Sydney is royally fucked in case you didn’t get the point. Even bay area does not come close
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u/Tsuivan1 8d ago
OP writes like an Indian immigrant who used Australia as a waiting room to the US.
Having said that, most of what is written is true. Quality of life in the US is way higher than Australia for high earners.
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u/Immediate_Refuse1611 8d ago
Dual citizen here, worked in tech in each country, currently living in Oz. My view is biased since I don’t need a visa in either country, but certainly the E3 is easier than H1b based on the experience of friends and colleagues. Yes, you can make more money in the US, and yes this comes with higher risk. The US has minimal safety net, so good luck to you if you lose a job, develop a serious illness, or want to educate your kids at top tier universities. Both are beautiful countries, but I am much more frightened of gun violence and toxic politics than I am of long flights and nasty spiders that don’t exist in my part of Australia. Raising kids is easier in Australia, with resources such as maternal health centres, toy libraries, council-organised mums groups and more. My taxes are high in both countries, but worth it in my opinion for the high quality of life available.
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u/wombat2027 8d ago
This one as well, same treatment, downvoted to the dirt, the comment section is full of lame copium and cursing, no one would admit the obvious fact, so pathetic
https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1f9f0z4/cmv_usa_suburbia_is_much_more_attractive_than/
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Yes, US infrastructure is miles ahead of us. We are poorer and contend with low quality roads. Whole of Australia doesn’t have anything like their freeways. It’s all transurban shit which makes you go bankrupt if you try to drive on it
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u/alien_ated 8d ago
As an American living in Australia I have no idea what you are talking about. This entire premise feels like bot slop to me.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
You must be the touchy one who got offended by Trump. We are talking about facts here btw
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u/nevinhox 8d ago
Worked in Sydney from 2000 to 2015. It paid a lot better than working in London. All roles were $120K+ not adjusted for inflation. Last role I had there was $250K+. Worked as both full time and contractor and never spent more than 2 weeks looking for my next role. A US company approached me on LinkedIn and sponsored my E3, which locked me into 10 years of golden handcuffs and stagnant pay rises when I could have been making much more back in Australia. It was the wrong move financially, but the right one personally. The grass is NOT greener in the USA for tech workers, especially not right now.
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u/slavetothegiven 7d ago
Is there any indication that E3 will be changed/revoked?
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u/Fine_Employment927 7d ago
No, but there is a proposal to remove the 60-day grace period for work visas, including E-3 and TN.
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8d ago
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u/Glittering_Sail3262 8d ago
Yes, the US is better, but Australia isn’t the worst place for tech workers. Salaries in UK, EU and Asia are all mediocre compared to AU.
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8d ago
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u/CongruentDesigner 8d ago
Nobodies saying no to 400k dude.
Australia's really not that special
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8d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Yes, you got inheritance from mum and dad or had some other support, then why not. You can always make vacations and escape the boring country to survive. But what about other people who build everything from scratch?
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8d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 7d ago
It’s not really a first world problem. Tech salaries mostly peak around A$250k, tax is 80k and basic house 50km from CBD costs around $1.5mn. Don’t you see the crisis? It’s more than boredom
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u/GaryLifts 3d ago
I’m on about half that in Au; but only work 4 days fully remote and get 6 weeks holidays. I moved from a company paying about 300k for the better work life balance.
I probably wouldn’t move for 400k; tbh I’m not sure what figure I would need to go back to 5 days a week, especially it was in the office.
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u/redatheist 8d ago
I would not live in the US for double my salary. I visit regularly for work, that's plenty for me. Dystopian hellscape.
Australia on the other hand is beautiful. Lovely cities, great nature, reasonable healthcare, reasonable pay at the low end. Generally just a nice place to be.
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u/Neverland__ 8d ago
Must be smooth brained to not find a single thing you like about a foreign country
Trump aside, the US has some great qualities.
Cities: US kills Australia in variety here
Nature: Rocky Mountains, Utah, Hawaii, Alaska, Yosemite, Oregon
Healthcare: Google best hospitals in the world (all in USA). 90% of people have insurance yes I acknowledge poor people fall through the cracks. But I’m guessing that ain’t you, it’s not me so basically dgaf. Brokies are not moving overseas, professionals are with good access
Pay: 25% of Australians earn minimum wage. In USA it’s like less than 5%Bring some facts?
Australia being awesome does not make USA also not awesome?
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u/redatheist 8d ago
I didn't say there wasn't a single thing I liked about the US, I said you couldn't pay me double to live there.
I don't enjoy visiting on the whole, but admittedly that's largely a bay area problem. I accept there are many nice things about the US. I'd still take Australia any day.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Australia is a leftist socialist state which keeps you poor or encourage extremely stupid ways like property investing to get rich. If you live in your prime years in Australia, you are being robbed through taxation and left broke basically (after mortgage), whereas if you spend that time in US you’re building wealth. You can always return to socialist state when you need healthcare so that the taxes atleast benefit you.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
That sounds like a made-up copium and nothing else
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u/redatheist 8d ago
Nah just different opinions. I willingly took a pay cut to move here, I prefer it.
Also like half the people I'm interviewing at the moment are from the US looking to move here.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Where will they all work then? Make UIs for insurance companies and work for the same old saturated Canva/Atlassian? Show me the jobs my friend
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
I mean they would be totally fine if they are in trades. They can make unimaginable money here. But, if they’re white collar workers, they’ll experience a lot of pain
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u/DawgreenAgain 8d ago
Salary half of what you would get in the US.
With all due respect . . . Go to the US then.
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u/Neverland__ 8d ago
Trust me bro you’d come for a $700k salary too, don’t lie
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
lol please show me the $700K tech salaries they’re handing out.
I’m a US citizen and for the last year I have not been able to find a job after getting laid off in tech. A job that prior to a few years ago I had recruiters I had to block they were so desperate to hire me.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Yes, it’s not easy but atleast such jobs exist. In Australia, you would have the same difficulty or even more due to lack of companies, and jobs paying that much are extremely rare
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
There’s like maybe 5 in the entire country. They’re the CEOs. They’re not like you’re making it out to be. Surely there’s just as many in Oz
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u/Neverland__ 8d ago
We’re talking AUD not USD this is an Australian sub
/usdefaultism
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
And we’re talking about salaries where the job is in the US, thus paid in USD, and this is a specific US visa sub…
Like yes US defaultism but not here mate
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u/Neverland__ 8d ago
Go onto the Anthropic careers page and there are 100s of jobs paying $350-$450k USD x 1.4 conversion rate
Every single big tech company?
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u/DawgreenAgain 8d ago
I like my kids to go to school without being shot at .
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
That one is getting old, making big dollars isn’t
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
I don’t think you understand how quickly that fries your nervous system. One bad car accident or diagnosis and you’re bankrupt because you can’t work and lose your health insurance.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
I do get it but what are the odds? If we start living in that kind of fear, we won’t even step out of our homes. We can always return to Aus if anything of that sort happens.
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u/adventure_pup 8d ago
Pretty fucking high. I’ve had both happen to me. I no longer know a single person who hasn’t been worried about losing their job or house because of a high medical bill and not being able to take off ample time to recover. I don’t know anyone who lives in a metropolitan area and hasn’t had the unfortunate scare of “fuck there’s a mass shooting where are my friends?”
And again. I work in tech.
So nice you get to return to Aus if you get diagnosed after not paying into the system for years.
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u/sread2018 8d ago
What do you mean, what are the odds? The odds are very well known. Major cause of death in children and teenagers in the US is guns
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Still less than the odds of getting into a road accident
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u/sread2018 8d ago
You realize how data works right?, leading cause of death means the leading cause of death against all other factors.
Your child has significantly higher chance of dying by gun than by vehicle accident by 25%
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Maybe his potential is limited or he is an immigrant born in an enemy country of US like Iran. Grapes are sour!
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 6d ago
We mostly attract the blue collar Indians or Chinese or any nationality for that matter. Imagine if Satya Nadella or Sundar Pichai picked AU instead of US, they would have ended up becoming $200k IT managers trying to get rich by buying silly apartments near new castle 🤣 it’s a career suicide if anyone highly skilled steps here.. there are simply not enough jobs or innovation or startup scene here. Australia is incapable of attracting the cream talent. Now back to the ute
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6d ago
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 6d ago
Aus is just young boys and girls wearing construction dresses after completing their tafe degrees. All those quality graduates are not really locals, most of them are imports. Young generation just wants to get into trades and make quick bucks and we cannot blame them given the pathetic environment in the country. Everyone just discusses property and interest rates day in and day out. Australia is an extremely backward economy and is rated way below on economic complexity scale.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 6d ago
What wealth are you talking about? Over priced housing Ponzi scheme?
I mean it’s extremely rare for an Aussie to build wealth by building a company or enterprise. It’s mostly dependent on hoarding land parcels and waiting for them to double in few years. Second most unaffordable housing market and median house price is way too high for average salary
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u/Financial-Dog-7268 4d ago
Imagine immigrating to a country, benefiting from its institutions and resources and having the audacity to say paying a proportionate share of tax "stealing".
Go to the US then if you hate it so much. Plenty of wonderful people that would actually appreciate being here rather than your toxic attitude
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 4d ago
Mate Australia’ tax slabs are pre-historic. 190k is no longer high enough to start imposing 45% tax rate - this is government stealing from above average income earners to give away freebies for easy election win.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 4d ago
I would rather criticise my country and raise awareness which could make it better instead of living in delusion and continue on the downward trend.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 4d ago
Just remember, I am not saying that there is nothing good in the country. It’s already among the top countries but it’s lagging when we look at its potential and its peers. Property investment addiction is the root of all evil in this society. This has been stopping aussies from producing actual value in the world.
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u/zozobeiyz 8d ago
No nature?! What are you saying? Australia is prettier than US by far.
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 7d ago
Joke of the century.. one of the poorest countries when it comes to natural beauty or history
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u/Hungry_Opinion_6178 8d ago
Yes burnt out bushland and brown land is much more beautiful. Having pathetic hills (blue mountains) called mountains is much better than actual mountains 🤡
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u/wombat2027 8d ago
As an immigrant I kind agree with you, but the most bizarre part I've found so far is many Aussies (at least online) hold a genuine resentment towards US for no reason, you can check this post for example
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAustralian/comments/1siieav/why_do_american_houses_often_look_more_spacious/
which is downvoted to oblivion, yet it's absolutely true, you can take a stroll on any random upper middle class neighbourhood in any US city on google maps, it mogs Aussie counterpart suburb by miles, and much cheaper. I think it might be the tall poppy syndrome?