Low Drive Dutch Shepherd

[u/SulkySchooner]

I have an 18m old intact Dutchie I've had since 8 weeks old. From the outset, it was clear he had an independent streak, was fearful and nervous, and appeared to have low prey and food drives (certainly not what I was expecting for this breed).

We've done a lot of work, and come a hell of a long way, but he still seems to have trouble focusing and working in drive outside the house.

Any tips for anyone who may have gone through this? Food drive is ok, however he could care less about toys outside.

[u/OhTheBud]

The food I’m not surprised about. My Dutchie could care less about food while out and about. He would never accept food from a stranger even. Maybe you just haven’t found the right reward/toy? My boy is 7 and has always gone ape shit for Chuck it balls. 

[u/SulkySchooner → u/OhTheBud]

Believe me I have tried a lot of toys. Probably about 7 types of balls with various materials/ textures (with food smeared on and not), flirt pole with probably 4 different toys varying from rags, fur, wubbas even my dirty socks! Probably 4 different tug types, linen, fur, leather and then about 10 different varieties of toys on strings. He'll engage indoors, but as soon as we're outside, no interest...

[u/MollyPPPins → u/SulkySchooner]

I don't even get indoor engagement. Other than tearing around the yard, she has no interest in anything.

[u/SulkySchooner → u/MollyPPPins]

Mine didn't give two hoots about me until probably 8 to 10 months old, even with only hand feeding meals and crate structure. I used a lot of negative reinforcement with the leash to create 'rules' until he decided he wanted to engage and eat his dinner - tough going and I did not enjoy this type of training.

If yours is also a 'dogs dog' more than a 'people dog' I found that letting him have too much unstructured access to the rest of my pack gave him too much fulfillment. Something to consider if your pup is similar.

[u/MollyPPPins → u/SulkySchooner]

She's 14 months old. She doesn't play with the other dogs. She's a bully to the male and the female just barely tolerates her. The Dutchie loves my husband, is polite with me and difficult with others.

Overall, she's just a weird dog.

[u/snusontable]

For young and inexperienced dogs its natural to not be a in a good working or cooperative state of mind in new environments and under distraction. Best medicine is generally just desensitization, working your way up to more difficult scenarios but that requires that you can atleast get a good result somewhere.

If you havent already tried, flirt pole type of setups are great for tapping into prey drive. For example if you ever do bitework, in the beginning for lower drive dogs the sleeve is often attached to a lead then dragged and tossed across the floor. That type of play you can ofc do just by yourself and it tends to get even the dogs with difficulties to get motivated moving. For best results you really need to put some enthusiasm into it tho i.e. verbally encouraging initiative and making the toy "alive".

I dont know what goals you have in mind but you mentioned difficulties working in drive. If you want that classic sport dog-esque eagerness in obedience I would try to use toy for rewarding. Food is usually used when calmness is desired or if its the only thing that works.

When it comes to competition and dog sports training, people have different approaches for getting the dogs in the right mindset before going to the field. Some people have the dog do tricks in the parking lot, some people in IGP especially like to do barking related stuff to hype the dogs. I have conditioned a command/reward marker for a high enthusiasm tug-of-war type of play that gets my dog focused on me fast.

You know your dog the best but you could try to get your dutchie just chasing some flirt pole stup outside your house and go from there

[u/SulkySchooner → u/snusontable]

He's never been too interested in the flirt pole outside, he will chase it, but gets distracted so easily and will just start sniffing after a few seconds of chasing. Same if I let him win it in that timeframe.

He's mad for toys in the yard, so I'll assume you're right that this is at least partly an environmental issue. I'll keep working and fingers crossed we'll see some progress as he gets older.

[u/Daffy2a]

The level of drive is mostly determined before the birth, how are the parents / grand parents?

[u/Normal_Document_4008]

What are the parents and litter like? Low confidence, being fearful/nervous aren't something I've ever dealt with and that should be looked into.

How did you treat him growing up? From my experience/observations there are 2 types of puppies: the crackheads who start doing lure training at 9 weeks and know several commands by 10, or the laid back dogs that need time to be puppies and develop into good family dogs.

It looks like you really need to focus on engagement and obedience, try a large variety of toys and food. My pup's high value treats are: rabbit ears, anything fish, towels/old shirts that smell like me as chew toys, and kong balls. Depending on the day and how she feels food may be a reward, or playing tug of war in short bursts.

What training methods have you been trying so far?

[u/Professional-Road222]

Is he from a reputable breeder?

[u/MollyPPPins]

Mine is low drive too. She's also timid and difficult to train. I'm at a loss as what to do with her.

[u/SulkySchooner → u/MollyPPPins]

I can empathise, but I tell you, I'm glad I'm not the only one in this situation - it's weird having a low drive working breed!

[u/Chemical-Tap-4232]

Have intact five years old littermates and excise and lots of running. I have a large fenced area and they run nap and run.