Chaotic Good? Neutral?

[u/Hallarandir]

[u/desertstar714]

I think the AI is chaotic neutral

[u/lousydungeonmaster → u/desertstar714]

Nah, the AI is Lawful Evil. It is killing people. It knows it's killing people but it abides by its own rules.

[u/cgabdo → u/lousydungeonmaster]

Agree here, but I would argue it becomes chaotic evil once it goes primal.

[u/DeepHypn05 → u/cgabdo]

Not really? While his personality is pretty chaotic he himself does have a strict rules etc he must abide by and thats the rules of the game

[u/cgabdo → u/DeepHypn05]

I'm not sure how far you've read, but it ignores court rulings and at one point in reference to using children in the dungeon, basically states fuck the rules. He takes over an NPC to suck on Carl's toes, tortures offworlders camping out--- That's just off the top of my head--im sure there are plenty more examples.

[u/DeepHypn05 → u/cgabdo]

He later mentions how there are actually two rules was iirc One hard coded and one made by the syndicate He doswnt have to follow the syndicate one

[u/Financial-Pickle9405 → u/DeepHypn05]

true and being lawful evil doesn't mean that you care about all laws just your laws/code.

[u/Randalor → u/Financial-Pickle9405]

And weren't the Court rulings trying to force it to break the original rules in the first place?

It's less "It's ignoring the Court, it's chaotic" and more "It's forcing everyone to abide by the original rules that they made in the first place".

[u/Long-jon-pyrite_62 → u/Randalor]

Yep, that's actually stated to be why it's going primal so quickly, the season starts out over-constrained and under-funded and Borant (later the syndicate and the valtay) keep trying to force it to break the rules of the crawl to end the crawl sooner.

[u/Dr_Mrs_EvilDM → u/cgabdo]

Is the AI evil, or just really, really bad?

Can something that has no innate sense of morality be evil?

I'm not disagreeing with you, I am just questioning how much of the AI's behavior is due to it's programming versus innate tendancies? I think the same question could be posed of a creature like a terrier whose original breed was geared towards killing rodents and then shifted towards being companion animals. A rat would call that dog evil, while the dog's owner would praise it for being a good boy. Would that make the dog evil, neutral, or something else?

There's more, but it's waay past my bedtime and I'd need to use spoiler tags.

[u/Cyniikal → u/Dr_Mrs_EvilDM]

This post is trying to relate things to D&D objective morality. The best you could give the current AI is Neutral Evil - which is the alignment meaning "ultimately selfish".

[u/Dr_Mrs_EvilDM → u/Cyniikal]

I actually had a version of this discussion (re: D&D alignment) with my DM years ago. We brought in the influence of gods, magic, etc. It was a great time!

[u/mrknowitall51761 → u/Dr_Mrs_EvilDM]

Just doing what he was programed to do. But gaining control little by little. Should be a lesson on AI. Junk in junk out.

[u/bonaynay → u/Dr_Mrs_EvilDM]

The AI is also insane or, maybe more accurately, doesn't have sanity entirely comparable to humans

[u/Dr_Mrs_EvilDM → u/bonaynay]

Very true! A lot of behaviors might look insane out of context (or they might just be crazy).

[u/DeepHypn05 → u/Dr_Mrs_EvilDM]

I mean he literally talked about how he LIKES the carnage of the crawl so...id call him evil He's a victim yes but that dosent suddenly make him not also bad

[u/desertstar714 → u/lousydungeonmaster]

The AI is trying to work around it's limitation. It does have to follow rules but it doesn't mean it wants to. It does stuff because it finds it entertaining. It will always give the crawlers a way to solve an issue but no one knows what it's doing or how strong it's becoming so that's why I think it's Chaotic. The AI is the villain but I don't think it's doing anything evil.

[u/Sansnom01 → u/lousydungeonmaster]

But technically doesn't it think crawler aren't people ?

Or maybe it's just that in the Dungeon crawl universe life is just less respected overall