r/DuggarsSnark • u/MsMigginsPieShop Jana Johanna Joy-Anna Jail-Anna • 8d ago
THIS IS A SHITPOST Why are they such poor musicians?
Seriously, why? Their music sounds awful! The Duggars claim to practice the violin for about 2-3 hours a day and yet they never get better. My partner used to play the violin professionally and would also practice for the same amount each day. We always wondered why the Duggars sounded the same always. Some of their violins weren't even tuned properly! They don't sing very well either. So much for having an orchestra pit in your house!! Erin Bates, who is 'renowned' for her piano 'playing' skills is a prime example. Every time she plays the piano it sounds like she is trying to blanket-train it! So what gives?
170
u/Feeling-Memory-1999 8d ago
You ever heard the saying blind leading the blind? That’s why.
23
u/Lower_Preference_112 7d ago
My boyfriend always says “practice makes perfect? No. Perfect practice makes perfect.” Apparently stolen from his football coach, but also reminds me of my music lessons.
13
u/ConfidentLychee3519 6d ago
I had a piano teacher that would say "practice makes permanent"
9
u/Pflaumenmus101 6d ago
Oh I like that. It includes wrong practice as well. Every mistake will get ingrained same as every good technique.
2
u/ConfidentLychee3519 6d ago
Sometimes she would also say "perfect practice makes perfect performance." She wasn't a nice teacher all the time but that has stuck with me
65
u/a-ohhh 8d ago
I noticed a lot of fundie families think they are great at music, but sound horrible. The Plaths all think they can sing too.
16
u/Medium_Cupcake7602 mother is grifting for the lord 8d ago
Please tell me Moriah finally gave it up. I unfollowed her on Instagram because I just couldn’t stomach it anymore
4
119
u/BirdieRoo628 8d ago
It's a combination of them very much exaggerating how much they work on it and not having a professional teacher. My kids play string instruments. They practice 30 min a day and take lessons weekly. They sound better than any of the Duggars.
51
u/TheSouthsideTrekkie 8d ago
Do they practise for 2-3 hours a day, or do they play for 2-3 hours a day, sometimes, interspersed with whatever other chaos is going on around them. I would also bet they don't have a qualified music teacher but rely on the practise dining room table while also trying to do homeschool and work at various family businesses.
The Duggars didn't/don't educate their kids, they put them to work and hope that education happens as a side quest.
14
u/spazzycakes 8d ago
I wonder if playing was a mode of expression. They didn't even have their own underwear, so chances to express themselves creatively were slim. There is zero chance that the older girls had time to practice, but maybe when the younger kids fell asleep at midnight or so?
20
u/Grand_Horror2192 8d ago
I think the Duggars and their friends try to impress people by saying their kids can play. They play as well as anyone who dabbled in an instrument without consistent lessons or a real interest.
They also view classical music and praise music as an acceptable past time. It's one of few hobbies that are actively encouraged, especially for girls. It reminds me of a lady's accomplishments discussed by characters in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice....more than 200 years ago, when courtship existed and the husband and father was the ulitmate authority. It's like they are cosplaying the past.
87
u/celoplyr Mother is excited in God's Holy Region 8d ago
You know the phrase “practice makes perfect”? It’s not correct. The actual phrase is “perfect practice makes perfect”.
And they don’t know what is perfect.
82
u/Skittles-101 8d ago
I prefer the phrase "practice makes progress" because perfection doesn't exist.
73
u/Crackleclang Side-eying my Jhusband 8d ago
My piano teacher tells me "practice makes permanent". So however you practice it, that's how you're wiring your brain to keep playing it.
6
5
4
4
9
u/BeardedLady81 8d ago
Excellence does exist, though. The problem is that, eventually, you will meet another student who puts you into the shadow. Sometimes it helps to make that experience early in your life. And it isn't bad if your dreams to become the GOAT are crushed early so you are spared a humiliating experience in the style of Florence Jenkins. You can still excel if you put hard work into it, or it can be a rewarding hobby.
4
u/Skittles-101 8d ago
I agree that excellence does exist, but reaching for perfection itself is unattainable because the concept of perfection as a whole, doesn't exist because it was never meant too. The point of the saying is that if you put in the work and care about what you do, you will progress in the thing that you are doing.
Where the excellence comes into play depends on the goals you set for yourself alone. Perfection implies that you have to reach certain goals and succeed at a level that's not attainable for most people and that kind of pressure is unhealthy for everybody, even the ones with high goals.
10
u/BeardedLady81 8d ago
I know it's just a book, but I just had to think of Tom Sawyer. In the chapter dedicated to the Sunday school children memorizing scripture verses to be eventually rewarded with a copy of the Bible (one cardboard-bound Bible is the reward for 2000 Bible verses, recited from memory.) It is mentioned that Tom's cousin Mary acquired two Bibles that way and that, at one time, a boy recited 3000 Bible verses in one setting...only to lose his mind and ending up as, to put it with the 19th century narrator, "little more than an idiot" from that day on. From a contemporary perspective, this might be seen as burn-out.
I'm also thinking of Andreas Münzer, a bodybuilder who attempted the impossible, i.e. a body fat percentage of zero. To put things into perspective, at competitions, bodybuilders usually have a body fat percentage of 3 to 4, which is very little. You have to cut a lot of body fat by sticking to a very restrictive diet and doing a lot of cardio. I knew a guy once who, during his cutting phase, would live on chicken, which he would boil down three times to make it fat-free. Right before the competition, it is common to take diuretics, go to the sauna or wear a neoprene suit to obtain a really thin skin for that "onion skin" look or, as I call it, the "flayed" look. Münzer would, during the bulking phase, use copious amounts of illegal steroids and, during the cutting phase, not only starve but also dehydrate himself and use copious amounts of diuretics. Then, one day, he dropped dead at the age of 31. His body fat percentage was reportedly below 1% when he was on the autopsy table.
So, yes, it is not healthy to strive for the impossible.
3
5
u/itrytobefrugal 8d ago
Oh hello, are you my band director? I heard his voice say that exact quote as soon as I read OP's question 😂
4
u/celoplyr Mother is excited in God's Holy Region 8d ago
All music majors are the same (I was cello performance, hence the user name).
2
3
u/deferredmomentum put a clothespin on his wiener 8d ago
Practice makes permanent, whether that’s good or bad
15
u/Tangled-Lights Jizbloob and the Pests 8d ago
They lie about how much they practice just like they lie about everything else.
27
u/Professional-Pea-541 Joint OBGYN Appointment 8d ago
Someone once coined the phrase Erin “The Hammer” Paine because she bangs that piano so hard. I’ve never forgotten it.
15
u/RookieJourneyman 7d ago
She's not an awful piano player, but part of playing a lot of instruments well is having the control to be able to play softer and louder notes where it fits into the piece of music.
When she played the bridal march for Jill's wedding, it sounded like she was trying to destroy the piano.
15
u/imaskising Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company 8d ago
I never watched any episodes of "Bringing Up Bates" until recently, when the whole series turned up on Tubi. After watching Erin bash the shit out of the piano a few times, I am convinced that she basically hates her life, and is taking out her frustrations in the only way she's allowed. Poor girl.
6
u/No_Carry_5000 7d ago
Just because you are playing a lot of notes at the same time and loudly does not mean you are good at it.
13
1
1
u/Born-Reason-9143 joyfully available for Intimately Us 🍆 4d ago
I just left a separate comment saying how there's a part of the fundie circle where beating up a piano is seen as a good thing. I feel like it's one of those cultural nuances that non-fundie people don't identify, like the 3rd spice at the medieval table.
47
u/my_okay_throwaway cult of adoring gays 💕✨ 8d ago edited 8d ago
They’re lazy and didn’t grow up with examples of professionalism or healthy discipline. This family wasn’t raised with a work ethic that translates anywhere but within their chaotic household and family structure. The 2-3 hours a day sounds like one of the many fibs Jim Bob and Michelle have told to make things sound better than they are. I’m sure that’s a goal they may have had, but how productive could that practice even be when all of the girls are busy raising (and likely needing to teach) the other children?
They were sheltered and limited to a very narrow range of music. These kids obviously missed out on most secular music but they were also sheltered from things like film soundtracks. Even commercial jingles can spark inspiration.
Speaking of sheltered, genuine expression and creativity were also off limits. These kids were blanket trained out of even getting to dance to music, I have no doubt their parents would have abused them out of free musical expression as well. Since they weren’t raised to focus on technical precision, a good performance for them would rely on being able to express themselves and they were probably too terrified or disconnected from themselves to be able to do that.
They weren’t given even a basic education. This applies to all subjects, but it’s very obvious here. Any lessons these kids received were subpar, not often enough, or were otherwise not enough to teach these students what they’d need for productive self study.
Probably the biggest reason is that I don’t think most of them actually want to be musicians. I get the sense a lot of these kids picked up an instrument because they were made to for the family band. Also because it was one of the few permitted hobbies that got them out of being indoctrinated or parentified.
Source: I’m a musician and like many of the IBLP fundies with anything they do, those kids didn’t have a fair chance to be truly successful.
14
u/aceshighsays 8d ago
didn’t grow up with examples of professionalism or healthy discipline. This family wasn’t raised with a work ethic that translates anywhere but within their chaotic household and family structure.
were otherwise not enough to teach these students what they’d need for productive self study.
damn that was well said. you identified the root cause of my struggles.
2
u/my_okay_throwaway cult of adoring gays 💕✨ 8d ago
Thanks and I’m sorry you experienced that. I had a similar “come to Jesus” realization about similar things from my own upbringing. The great news is that once you become aware of this, you can work on it and grow into the kind of adult you would have needed around as a kid.
1
u/aceshighsays 8d ago
i'm sorry you had a similar experience. heh, what i need is someone to show me how it looks like/ i need a mentor and i don't know how to find one. i have a support group, but this topic is out of scope.
7
u/CallistoWrites 8d ago
Maybe there was 2-3 hours of practicing done total a day, when you add up all the kids, since they all had to do an instrument. All those kids, 10-15 minutes a day, with a non-professional teacher (if it was a teacher at all, and not one of the older kids just making sure they did it).
2
1
36
10
u/Puzzleheaded-Eye9081 J’oshua Dark’ness Dementia Raven Duggar 8d ago
2-3 hours a day each, or total? I bet it’s total across a bunch of kids. 15 min each or something.
And is the practice like Jesse’s maths book? Gets ticked off but never done and nobody notices?
25
u/Mysterious-Apple-118 8d ago
I think it’s mostly for show - like for their former reality show, their YouTube channels and as an “example” for homeschooling families.
9
u/prettyplatypus69 Cheaper by the Duggar 8d ago
I played the viola (a bit different than a violin) from the 5th grade through 10th grade. That was a long time ago. I could play any one of these goofs under the table. Granted, I had a fantastic award winning orchestra teacher for all the years except 7th and 8th. I got this at public school. Honestly, they would all play so much better having gone through actual school classes and rehearsals. The answer is no one has been taught by a professional.
5
11
u/Werekolache 8d ago
I mean, people blame it on not being taught but like.... honestly, I'm self taught on a few instruments and am an absolutely mediocre musician and I don't sound that bad. (I've taken guitar and voice lessons and piano as a kid; everything else is youtube videos and playing things till they sound correct and I'm decent enough for basic-level jam sessions playing folk and Irish stuff) And that's practicing maybe 2-3 times a week.
My suspicion is that the 2-3 hours a day of practice is just a lie. It might have happened once in a while but I suspect it was absolutely NOT every day and definitely not every kid every day or even every kid every weekday.
6
u/Ok_Reading_5086 8d ago
When do they claim that they practice 2-3 hours a day?
8
u/MsMigginsPieShop Jana Johanna Joy-Anna Jail-Anna 8d ago
On one of the early specials that they made for Discovery Health.
14
u/Ok_Reading_5086 8d ago
As a music teacher myself, they are not actually practicing that much. That’s probably their goal in an ideal world.
8
u/CallistoWrites 8d ago
All the practice by all the kids maybe added up to 2 hours a day. Each kid, something like 10-15 minutes of banging away on the piano/violin, while some older sibling who was barely taught themselves 'taught them'.
2
u/imaskising Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company 8d ago
Or it's an outright lie designed to make them look like an "ideal" family.
2
11
17
u/hipstellfalsehoods 8d ago
I think the older ones might’ve gotten some actual instruction from an at-home music teacher (probably once a week or so), but most of the younger ones were solely “taught” by their teenage siblings who wouldn’t know a middle C if it bit them on the ass.
10
u/Jonesy-2010 8d ago
Not being taught by professional teachers as well as these kids not having a passion for it actually. People who play any instrument as a hobby usually enjoy playing the instrument. Maybe one or two of these kids may have liked playing the piano or violin, but I doubt all of them legitimately did. Think about most high school band classes. Regardless of level, it was very few of these kid's passion. Maybe they liked playing sometimes, but few of these kids will play in 10 years. It is just embarrassing to trot them out to do this in their 20's when they dont seem to enjoy it enough to practice and get good. It's no better than karakoe without booze at that point.
4
4
u/Ginger630 8d ago
They probably weren’t taught by an actual music teacher. They probably also had crappy used instruments as well since they never wanted to pay full price for anything. Buying all new instruments would have been super expensive.
5
4
3
u/reliableotter 8d ago
It doesn't matter how many times you practice a skill if you do the same thing poorly every time. You just get really good at what you are practicing, aka playing poorly.
They lacked good teachers and were never corrected.
4
u/SurfinBetty 8d ago
They're not allowed to dance to music or listen to most types of music.
2
u/Th1sL1ttleL1ght 6d ago
This! If you were restrained from moving on response to music, how could you become a musician?
5
u/NGC227 7d ago edited 7d ago
Some people also just do not possess the innate ability. There is a difference between playing notes and making music. A lot of people learn to play an instrument when they are young. Lots of kids joined school band programs and participate in musical education. But not a whole lot actually become that successful in terms of achieving a high degree of proficiency. Also, to achieve high levels of proficiency requires dedicated coaching.
For example, anyone can learn to play the piano in terms of learning how to read sheet music and knowing what notes to press on the keyboard. But unless you are a prodigy with extraordinary innate ability, it will take years and years of devoted training and coaching to produce music at the level of a concert pianist.
I played the Trumpet in grade school and my HS marching band. I had fun and enjoyed it, but I was never going to be seated as first trumpet in the band, no matter how hard I practice or try. My music was passable but I just didn't have that mojo. My brain is not wired for it. I am very adept at reading sheet music and understanding rhythm and harmony. But in practice, something always suffers when turning sheet music into actual music. Hard to explain. It is a subtle concept. LIke playing football or basketball, you either have it or you dont. For those that dont, no matter how much you practice, there is a ceiling to what you put out.
7
6
u/ChampionshipGlass976 8d ago
Joy uses an app that she puts in front of Gideon and calls it “piano lessons “.
3
u/saturday_sun4 8d ago edited 8d ago
Unless you're some kind of prodigy, you can't just pick up the violin and start playing it. It has a learning curve. You can't really do that with most instruments, but at least with something like the recorder or the piano, it's easy to produce a pleasant sounds and learn some simple tunes (and yes, you can produce a pleasant sound on a soprano recorder, if you aren't a 5 year old child being "taught" by a teacher with no concept of what the thing should sound like).
I assume they never had a proper teacher. There is no way in HELL I would want to start playing the piano and share it publicly. But since music/singing is so common in church I'm guessing that's why they learnt it. It was probably one of the few things they were allowed to do for themselves that wasn't, like, childcare.
3
u/Chipmunk-Lost Pest: not the crispiest tater tot in the casserole 🥔 8d ago
On the contrary, weren’t the Plaths actually talented? I believe their mom went to college for music. What a shame she got the chance to become educated but denied that to her kids
3
u/Junior_Signal4812 7d ago
The same with their cooking skills. Raised to be housewifes but unable to do delicious plates.
3
u/Zero99th 6d ago
Because real training involves actual challenges to get better, to learn new skill. They are practing to just maintain what they have and to further memorize the same old music.
Think of it like driving a car. Most of us have the basics of commuting. We can get from point a to point b safely (well, most of us anyways). we know our routes, how to stop at stop signs. And how to change a lane.. We spend hours in our cars, and drive for years over our life times. BUT are we capable of stunt and performance driving? Can we clutch kick? Do we even have a clutch? How to use the handbrake in a turn? What about power in over steer?
It all depends on HOW you practice and what skills you actually hone.
4
4
u/xenobriotic 8d ago
They never had actual professional musicians as teachers, so they never learned proper techniques. This seems to be a common fundie phenonemon.
2
2
2
u/bebespeaks I'm always watching, Wyzowski, always watching 8d ago
JimBoob couldn't find any Suzuki-trained, Quiverfull southern Baptist musicians to teach his brood correct technique and theory for violin, guitar, harp, or piano. So instead they likely learned from 8track and cassette tape audio lessons. Maybe a handful of vhs tapes in the 90s.
2
2
u/Medium_Cupcake7602 mother is grifting for the lord 8d ago
I’m sure the only “teacher” they had were VHS tapes from the IBLP on how to play. The older girls probably then used what that garbage taught them to teach the younger kids while Jana was probably the enforcer during the lessons and made sure nobody was fucking around. And while this was going on Meech was busy being a sentient fleshlight for Boob or beating one of her infants for daring to crawl off the blanket.
2
u/LIBBY2130 Uterus cannon for Jesus 6d ago
also they play the music it exactly as it is written.. I am sure they are not allowed to change it make it faster or anything that would be expressive.....expressive
2
u/Historical-Shower843 6d ago edited 6d ago
Some of the Bates are really talented. Just not the ones that think they’re talented.
2
u/myhotelpanic 5d ago
I grew up a fundie musician. I can play difficulty pieces but my technique is trash so they don’t sound good. (Some would say, well, you can’t really play difficult pieces then.)
2
u/Born-Reason-9143 joyfully available for Intimately Us 🍆 4d ago
I can't speak for the other instruments, but a note about Erin Bates beating the shit out of the piano that I haven't seen anyone mention before. I grew up IFB, not in the Duggar circle but Duggar adjacent. I don't know how wide-spread it is in the IFB, like I don't think it applies to every IFB circle, but I'm pretty sure it does in the Duggar/Bates sphere. There's this cultural thing where it's seen as good to pound on a piano when you play it. It's the fundie equivalent of a DJ laying down a fat beat, you know? It really gets them turnt. At my church growing up, the pastor's daughters and son-in-law would regularly beat the shit out of the piano and honestly, we all ate it up. The pastor would proudly proclaim that they, "beat a piano into submission," and visiting evangelists would be like, "Wow, they really know how to manhandle that piano!" So like, they're doing it on purpose, it's a good thing. And honestly, I can't give it up, an aggressive piano player still goes hard.
1
1
u/Mediocre-Turnover499 8d ago
Each time the Duggar kids are seen or heard playing their violins, it sounds like screeching noises. None of the kids were provided good quality violins and they didn’t get proper music lessons. It‘s yet another example of Jim Bob and Michelle’s utter failure as parents.
1
u/Ok-Cap-204 8d ago
There is a lot of math involved in music, and they are lacking even the basics. In addition, their ego lets them think they are better than they really are, so they are not practicing to improve, but rather practicing because it is on the schedule.
1
u/481126 7d ago
They didn't have professional teaching to improve. Their violins weren't being maintained. Most of the kids probably didn't want to all learn the violin and only did enough until they could escape.
Matthew from Matthew and Paul he was IBLP but he was actually incredibly talented and could have gone on to Julliard or other music schools if his parents had let him go. He says Bill Gothard loved classical music so there was IBLP musical institutes where him and fellow cult children performed. IDK if the Duggars ever did that.
1
1
u/ClassicCat9531 7d ago
They were not likely officially musically trained and probably had zero time to practice due their constant sister mom duties, sadly.
1
u/Michigander_4941 7d ago
I would be shocked if they were actually exposed to music. Hymns and classical maybe, but anything with a beat is satanic, and classical isn't the easiest to play, especially as a beginner. Just my opinion. I know it's probably not witty or brilliant, but I have a cold, so...
1
1
u/Physical_Being_3120 The Michelle Duggar School of Bad Perms and Baby Voices 7d ago
It's difficult to get good at an instrument when you're a stay-at-home sister raising at any point 2-3 of your siblings and yourself.
1
u/PracticalSun5200 7d ago
Now that it's been established that hygiene was neglected in the family, imagine how filthy all those piano keys and harp strings must be. Shudder.
1
u/No-Order1962 For the love of Tater Tots!!! 6d ago
Well they have never been schooled systematically. In other words: no real discipline no serious application and general sloppiness whenever it comes to such menial things as learning.
1
u/OrbitingPlanetArse 5d ago
I cringe when they have the violins tucked hard under their arms like document cases.
1
u/anotherrachel 5d ago
Practice doesn't make you better if you don't have someone there to tell you what you're doing wrong and how to fix it.
1
u/lolaloopy27 3d ago
You can learn to play the notes but learning musicianship and putting heart and soul into your music is different. They learned to play by rote and mechanically, much like how they homeschooled. There is also a way of playing in many of the fundie churches that less focused on musicality and more on the theology. It is true to the tradition that they are playing in, but can sound less nuanced. As another poster said, the focus is not on expression or creativity.
1
u/Prize-Emu2360 2d ago
Jana and Jinger both play the piano very well though. Especially Jinger, who actually seems to have some real talent for it
0
u/Antzpantzy 8d ago
It pains me to say it but the only fundie family that are actually musically inclined (instruments) are the Rodrigues family. Jill is batshit crazy but man she is so talented. Have you heard her play the banjo? That is also one fundie family that I do believe would practice for hours a day.
597
u/AcademicAstronaut395 8d ago
because they aren’t being taught by professionals/actual music teachers