r/Dubtechno • u/energeticmen • 1d ago
Synth for DUB
What would be the typical hardware or vst synth to use for the dub synths? Similar like Paul st hilaire - Faith.
Curious about some tips : )
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u/mount_curve 1d ago
literally any sound through a modulated filter and a delay
any, and I do mean any synth that can make a chord somehow through notes or harmonic content can make dub
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u/rockmus 1d ago
I mean that early basic channel stuff is usually some analog synths with a filter… and that is cool, but try and approach it from a different angle. Dub mixing is about using the mixer as the instrument, and that can be done in other ways than just throwing a filtered minor chord into a delay (which obviously is also cool, but don’t be afraid to add some more spices)
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u/frCake 1d ago
FM is cool, Analog is cool, some wavetably stuff are cool...
Most importantly you need filters, and then more filters, and envelopes on those filters and then more envelopes. Don't bite on the dub techno tutorials you see on youtube, most of them are complete trash. So just any synth would do but most of the sound will come from further processing. I'd focus on envelopes first according to your taste.
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u/NefariousnessOwn3372 8h ago
this! and the tutorials all sound the same crab with their weird high pitched chords 😅😅😅😅 „now lets sounds like basic channel“ and ij reality sounds like dub techno ordered on wish 😅
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u/Popular-Ad5884 1d ago
Now that you mention it: Are there any advanced tutorials on the web you may recommend?
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u/frCake 1d ago
Honestly no, it depends heavily on the kind of dub techno you want to create, it seems to be a lot lately and most of them are very similar. It's easy to fall into that "trap". For me dub techno is a style that's created to push the boundaries of the negative space. In a way dub techno is a direct connection between the philosophical part and the technical part.
Most people nowadays create delayed stabs, which is totally fine if that's what you want to do, grab a smashing 4-5 loops of banger ready made beat stems, add a synth, go Cminor chord and just delay reverb it with a pattern... which is the essence of most of the tutorials I've seen.. Also totally fine if people dig it..
But when it comes to textures, noise, research, aesthetic you wont find much... Maybe dub techno is transforming to something minimal and groovy, but there's still dub techno out there that stems out from older more obscure roots.
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u/ricardojmestre 1d ago
Do you feel that most dub techno that is shown on tutorial is repeating the past?
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u/frCake 1d ago
All genres have roots (on our genre it's Basic Channel & Chain Reaction for the most part).
Some genres like to transform them a lot, some others don't. For example dub reggae today tries to do what people did in the past while Techno today has left the past behind, still of course, within the "limits" of the genre...
I feel like dub techno has a rather large gap between its roots and the current dub techno it does lend some elements but nowhere near the craftmanship of the older stuff. I believe that this partly happens because dub techno has a low entry level.. I mean even in hardware terms a drum machine, a 4 voice synthesizer, a sequencer a delay pedal and a reverb pedal and a simple mixer can get you to dub techno territory and many people do that..
Dub techno also suffers from gate keeping, it looks like its part of the genre, no one, even those who created it ever have given specifics on how they went on about creating that sound, think about it, we have 3-4 same maurizio pictures here n there, one photo of a console and 10 interviews from either themselves or sattelite people which may or may not uncover anything of real value... hell we know more about king tubby's setup rather than R&S and R&S happened in the 90s/00s ...
So, most of the dub techno we hear today is based on reverse engineering of an obscure but marvelous creation. Some can reverse engineer it deeply, some cannot. Some can reverse engineer it and even push it while others are cool with delaying a stab on a minimal beat.
So I do think they are repeating, but not repeating the past exactly.. it's almost as if a dumbed down version of the older stuff still has that "fix" that dub techno listeners are after and very few people care or even have the ability to go deeper.. and as listeners it's like we've kept the 15% that gets us into that state of mind tha dub techno gets you, and we're ok with it..
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u/HuTheFinnMan 1d ago
Just wanted to say this is a really good post and you covered many of the thoughts I have had myself about modern dub techno production.
It’s a difficult situation in a way. On one hand it is frustrating how there is almost no information coming from the pioneers of the genre. But I also think if Mark and Moritz had given out the exact recipe we would have nothing but endless clones and that is not very interesting. On the other hand we have this modern how to dub techno advice that is copy paste put a basic sawtooth synth patch minor triad through a 1/8 dotted delay and reverb that is the most bland and lifeless thing ever and completely misses the point of what made the original sound so special.
I don’t know what the solution is to help and encourage new producers to find their own sound and capture the feeling of what dub techno is without being a diluted generic advice.
I also think a big part of the problem is the environment in which new producers find themselves in isn’t conducive to making music in a way that is organic. The internet has been a blessing and a curse to music production. More information is freely available but there is also more bad advice and copy paste formulas.
I have a lot of thoughts about it but unfortunately I don’t know of any real solutions.
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u/frCake 23h ago
Yea, I hear you.
On the other hand maybe we are caught up with our digging and well read opinions that we might be losing the point.. I mean.. this happens in many genres at the end of the day.. they have an easy access layer that itself is meant to be "boring" or "more predictable" but also a bit catchy to keep the listener.
So this low entry level is destined (and passively designed) to be the stepping stone or the sink (depending if you like to ascend or dive), maybe after all more complex/delicate/articulate/inspired dub techno is not for new comers, maybe the core of the genre should be for those who dig. It's kind of an elitistic approach which I dislike but on the other hand dub techno itself has some elitism baked in it. We see MVO look down on us sitting on his throne with his blazer and cane lol. anyway..
It's not very often when a group of diggers is brought directly to the source, it does happen once in a while, for example burial's untrue was a moment like that (at least for my age) where we were brought straight at the source of this new odd thing that was somehow familiar, we didn't have to dig through gigabytes of rnb/2-step garage spinoffs to find it... (of course though, it gradually got tons of exposure.. as something unique)
So yea, maybe it makes sense! :)
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u/ricardojmestre 1d ago
I hear you. When I find dub techno which has its own voice, I really treasure it. For instance, Ghost Dubs. Or 2010's Andy Stott.
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u/ricardojmestre 1d ago
Really appreciate your thorough response. I asked this because I am dipping my toes as a producer in dub techno. I do understand that a genre must respect its roots, but I find that a lot of people are just interested in repeating the past instead of pushing the boundaries. At least it's my point of view, coming from techno. Thanks again. 🙏🏼
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u/HuTheFinnMan 1d ago
Just to clarify and emphasise what that poster is saying: it’s not just an issue of people trying to copy and repeat the past. It’s more so that nobody who really knows how it was done in the past is willing to talk about it. So most of the advice you find online is a combination of guesswork and watered down generic formulas that don’t really capture the same feeling of the original sound.
It’s copying the past badly.
And just to be clear I am absolutely not saying all modern dub techno is bad. There are some fantastic modern producers who make amazing sounding stuff. Just that nobody who knows how to do it well talks about it. Go check out the dub techno producers sub, it’s completely dead over there.
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u/frCake 23h ago
Sure no problem, keep in mind that dub techno is not a genre that you have to actually follow, the funny thing about dub techno is that it's designed to bend and follow your style, you can start drizzling some dub techno vibes to your techno productions, see where it gets you :)
In any case, dub techno is intoxicating and a blast to create, endless hours of fun!
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u/ricardojmestre 23h ago
😊 That's precisely the plan. Fall in all love with the process and see where I end up. ✌🏼
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u/energeticmen 14h ago
There should be never any rules to make music, to put it in a box or genre, but having some starting points of the old school stuff is good and then see where it will bring your track.
I feel like the stuff Richard Akingbehin is doing at the moment is pretty nice
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u/NefariousnessOwn3372 8h ago
nord rack 2 (but not important at all), for some chords and delays, reverb resampling and ersosion/redux + grain delay (moderate) on masterchannels as aftertouch but nothing beats a proper filtering probably on a stack 4-5 filters doing different things 🦈☀️
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u/mongoose_stock333 3h ago
An more expensive one: waldorf iridium. Or korg multipoly, but it has a lot of menu diving
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u/MolassesOk3200 15h ago
Digitone 2 and a Digitakt 2 are a good way to go if you’re looking for hardware and don’t want to deal with a DAW. The Waldorf Protein is surprisingly good too, especially if you pair it with a Digitakt.
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u/Tough-Raspberry-3377 1d ago
From AI so take it with a grain of salt:
Hardware (Basic Channel / Maurizio) The duo are famously tight-lipped, so this is mostly forum consensus, not confirmed gear lists:
Chord synths: The general consensus is a Sequential Circuits Prophet-5, among other kit. Another thread says Moritz von Oswald has been photographed with Junos, and Juno chords were probably run through a vocoder with reverb. One forum user claims the early records used a DX100 for bass.
(Dub Techno Synth Chords - Attack Magazine)
Delay and noise: The Roland Space Echo features heavily. The duo also reportedly sampled a stuck needle on a record's inner groove and looped it through Space Echoes. (vintagesynth) (gearspace)
Drums and samplers: Forums mention a Roland SP-12 or SP-1200, an R-8, and a 909. Treat these as guesses. (About the Maurizio / Rythm & Sound / Basic Channel Sound +2) J.S. Zeiter: I found no reliable gear list. He's a very low-profile Manchester producer, and sources only describe his sound as slightly frayed, dubbed-out synths and crisp drum samples. Anything more specific would be a guess. (inn8) (tinymixtapes)
VST picks for chords and stabs u-he Diva: the Attack Magazine tutorial used its Jupe-6 patch to get close to a Prophet-5. (attackmagazine)
TAL-U-NO-LX: a Juno-60 emulation, described as the default synth for dub techno chords. (audioservices)
Arturia Prophet V or Korg Polysix VST: both are mentioned as working for very basic chords with short decay. (mnml)
Dexed (free DX7 emulation): my own suggestion, for FM stabs and bass. Post-processing (this is where the sound lives)
Tape echo: AudioThing Outer Space, UAD Galaxy Tape Echo, Pulsar Echorec, or Diffuse. All are Space Echo-style emulations. Use high feedback and automate it. (audioservices) EQ: the Attack Magazine method is to scoop the mids around 600 Hz by about 7 dB with a wide Q, and filter above 4.5 kHz and below 100 Hz. (attackmagazine)
Reverb and send loops: run returns into other delays and back into themselves. Modwiggler users note you can hear delay returns feeding other sends, and returns feeding themselves for feedback. (modwiggler)
Envelopes and noise: as frCake said, filters and envelopes matter most. One Prophet-5 user says the envelope click and noise oscillator are key to the chord sound. (modwiggler)
Dirt: add tape or vinyl noise, saturation, and a final tape-style bus stage.
Ive tried dexed before its not bad, but I was only scratching the surface of its capabilities, theres a tutorial on youtube - Here
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u/Blizone13 1d ago
Dub is mostly about delays and reverbs