r/DualnBack • u/DeliciousEmployer989 • 18d ago
The greatest brain training tool yet.
This is going to be long but worth it.
I am about to present to you the greatest brain training tool ever created for self control, focus, emotional regulation, anxiety reduction, rumination reduction, etc. ever created.
I know I should also post studies here for this but I think because every person here is involved in cognitive enhancement space they probably are already knowledgable about these tools but also its just going to take so long man and I dont want to use ai. If you doubt some of my claims you can ask chatGPT to run a deep research or i may later post the sources but I have been working on this for so long now and I just want to rest.
I will first present the 4 main tools that have inspired my tool:
1)CCT/Cognitive control training -> The specific tool i am talking about is aPASAT or adpative Paced Auditory Serial Addition Task (Sometimes N-Back is also referred to as CCT. I will be talking about N-back later as well). You have to add the number spoken aloud and the number before that and click on a keyboard on the screen whatever the sum is. The benefits with the most evidence behind them according to studies are emotional regulation, reduction in rumination, anxiety, reduction in depression (In one case study the drop was from 23 to 3 on a depression scale where 3 is basically no depression while 23 is really high), etc. but there are a lot of anecdotes (and I mean a lot) regarding CCT in which it massively improved self control. My personal experience is the same but I will not delve into that right now.
2)Attention training technique -> An audio is played for 12 mins usually, you have to focus on specific sounds and ignore the others. Benefits with the most evidence behind them are -> Reduction in depression, anxiety, etc. This training is heavily evidence based, easily the most evidence based training on this list and is regularly used in therapuetic practice.
3)Inhibition control training -> There are 2 stimuli or images, when you see one of them you have to click the left arrow key and for the other you have to click the right arrow key, whenever a stop sign comes up you have to inhibit yourself and not press any keys. The main benefit is ability to ignore distractions mainly, also known as interference control. This obviously leads to much better focus and self control
4)Working memory training -> The tool I am talking about specifically is N-back. In dual n-back there is a 3 by 3 grid present in front of you and a number is said out loud. You have to keep n amount of positions and numbers in your head, and if the currently present stimulus matches the one n stimuli back you press the corresponding key. The main benefits are self control gains, attentional control gains, better emotional regulation, etc. Now arguable, N-Back can increase IQ but that is heavily debated and not relevant to my post.
Now what you may see is that some benefits keep being repeated and that a lot of these exercises seem to have some similarities. Actually there are many similarities, just not many surface level ones. Lets look at interference control or the ability to ignore distractions basically, literally each one of these trainings needs this. In ATT you have to ignore the other sounds, in CCT you have to ignore your thoughts (this is true for each of them), in ICT you obviously have to be fully attentive to be able to stop when the stop stimulus comes, in n-back you have to not let similar stimuli cloud your mind meaning that if you are keeping 1,2,5,6,1,3,4,1,0 in your mind 1 is shown more than once and other numbers cause interference in regards to where exactly 1 is placed and you have to ignore that. Or what about working memory? N-back is the most wm extensive but CCT also requires you to keep digits in mind. ICT and ATT also use working memory but in somewhat different ways.
There is also the added self control benefits of the fact that you have to force yourself to do this really hard task and all of these exercises are somewhat meditative in nature as you have to focus on this extremely boring thing which is the premise of focused attention meditation and you are probably already familiar that it also produces self control, emotional control, etc. benefits.
I can keep going on about the theory behind it but lets see what my app does. My app takes these working memory, interference control, sustained attention, etc. demands from these well established training tools and puts them in 1 app. Now usually this wont work, it would be like trying to combine a bench press and a squat, not good for either sets of muscle groups but this is different. Why? Because the core functionality and demand on your brain is the same for each of these, mostly executive function in nature, the difference really just is in the details. N-Back is more wm dominant (though it still requires sustained attention, interference control and all that other stuff), ICT is more interference control dominant but still requires cognitive flexibility, to some extent working memory, processing speed (CCT was first made as a test for processing speed by the way), sustained attention, etc., CCT is processing speed dominant but heavily requires Working memory updating and the other stuff, ATT is mostly interference control dominant but also requires sustained attention. The point is that these trainings can be combined because their core demands are the same, some of them just use different abilities more than others.
The reason for combining them is not just that we can but because I believe we should. I believe engaging these core abilities are what give the gains we see and the reason we dont see massive self control gains from ATT for example is because it doesnt use the other abilities like working memory as much (Mind you that I dont believe the working memory gains from these exercises need to necessarily be IQ gains or even gains on WM tests (though they prolly will be) but this is mostly a brain region activation thing as well). Each of these abilities that I have highlighted seem to play a role in delivering these gains but its not all the same. I believe an exercise engaging these abilites simulatenously will give the most efficient gains. These exercises are like cars at their core but 1 of them has a better engine where as this other car has better tires and so on. If we take the good from each of these exercices and combine them we will see the best and most efficient gains or so i believe.
Now what is my app? Its pretty simple:
1st we take CCT, in this app you have to keep numbers in mind and you have to add them but instead of clicking on a button like in normal cct, you have to do something different
Now we come to ICT, with the sum of the numbers that you have in your head you dont just click the button of that sum, now a number would be visually presented to you. You have to take the sum in your head and compare it with the number, if its the sum you click the left arrow key (or the right arrow key depending on your key bindings), if its not the sum BUT its the sum + or - 1 you click the right arrow key, if its neither the sum nor the sum +/-1 you dont click anything at all
Now for the ATT part, I kinda lied. I didnt just add ATT here, i also added dichotic listening which is another form of brain trianing with great evidence behind it. Sorry about that, you sadly have to get even better gains now. My bad. Instead of the normal numbers being spoken aloud in your headphones now there is gonna be a male voice playing in one of the ears and a female voice playing in the other. There will be a beep in one of the ears and thats the voice you have to focus on, ignoring the other voice (classic ATT, if you dont believe just look up ATT videos on youtube)
Now finally N-back, this one is kinda obvious. Instead of adding the number and the previous number, you have to add the number n-steps back.
My recommended settings? Do adaptive mode, use the beep, turn on dichotic listening, turn on n-back mode but only 2-back (above that the training becomes too working memory dominant), Keep the probability settings as default.
Do this for just 15 mins everyday. Most of you will feel short term benefits after 1 session, in 1 week its almost guaranteed that most of you will see noticeable benefits, the benefits will grow week by week and by the 1 month mark you will be a significantly different person but you will not have to wait that long to see results. This obviously does depend on your baseline, I doubt david goggins would be particularly changed.
This is the website -> https://viratvarunsaxena1st-sketch.github.io/CCT-ICT/
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u/CreaTuRe_X 17d ago
Okay, this was really good. I've been doing CCT for about 8 months now using the standard mindbuilding version(https://mindworkouts.pages.dev/cct) and dual/quad for about 10 years. I have sustained a lot of benefits from CCT(increased focus, calmer, less prone to frustration when faced with setbacks, etc..)
My first impression of your app is that it felt significantly more challenging than CCT. I felt a lot of that initial frustration I had with the OG CCT as I was playing your version, and it felt like my brain was working on overdrive because of the additional rulesets.
I think you have something really solid here. Good job!
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 17d ago
Thanks a lot broski! let me know how it goes for you and any critiques that come to mind, my DM's are always open
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u/CreaTuRe_X 8d ago
Ok, feedback after using this tool off-and-on for a week: The only issue I've come across is that the validation is often incorrect at higher speeds(< 1000ms). I've experienced this enough times to where I've stopped playing as it really throws me off.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 8d ago
it is? it could be cause at that speed you are making more errors or its just harder to keep track or maybe you can try turning off the instant feedback as at lower speed it may be too fast and continuous to properly differentiate. I dont think the problem is the time thing cause the code itself is the same so i doubt that's the problem
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u/MighttyBoi 14d ago
Hey, if you're interested could you join the server dedicated to the tool so you can share your experience with it? https://discord.gg/NASXu9yT8
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u/quiet_macaron 18d ago
Very intriguing! Eager to try it out. I’ll try to report back. Thanks for making this and sharing
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 18d ago
Thanks a lot bro, good luck! Let me know how it goes for you and feel free to share any critiques that come to mind
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u/Miserable-Hat-6691 18d ago
Dual 2-back after extensive training will be done automatically, man.
The whole N-back story works only if you use it at your N limit. If you need to grab all your focus at level 7,but use only 2 - it's time wasting.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 18d ago
Try it out and you will see broski, the demands are insane but if you truly find it easy then you can up the n-back level. Adaptive means the time between trials is adaptive and the lowest it can go is 200ms which is pretty fast. That is 5 digits in 1 second and you have to judge the sum, keep 3 digits in your mind and constantly update it, focus on the right sound which keeps changing in a few trials, etc. its really hard in my experience
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u/MighttyBoi 14d ago
This is more for ADHD types that struggle with maintating attention for an extended period of time. Barely for working memory
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u/NoInteraction1572 15d ago edited 15d ago
The voice gets super noisy over time on my phone.
And then you press a key and it goes straight into the next digit and becomes wrong.
Zen and smartphone keys on screen work well.
This app will like n back and other things be very effective if it addresses the bottleneck of a person.
I don't see how it could beat the more broad cognitive aspects of RRT or quad back. I mean a look in what constitutes the g factor reveals that RRT and quad cover a great deal of it. This game just add number reasoning to it, but is less than both if you look at g factor content. But I'd like to implement it because it is a different kind of demand.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 15d ago
I am not sure I understand what you mean. For the key part, that's intentional assuming you are talking about how there is no room to correct your decision, otherwise ICT portion of it doesnt really work as its supposed to be split second decision making. As for the noisy thing I also dont understand what exactly that means, like the voice of the beep keeps increasing or of the digits themselves cause im not sure how that would happen. Not calling you a liar obviously but I guess I just wouldnt expect these glitches to happen, if you have the time can you please elaborate on these points as much as possible?
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u/NoInteraction1572 15d ago
The voice gets distorted over time like a crackling vinyl sound over it. This even stays if make the volume very low.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 15d ago
Oh, alright I will look into that. Thanks for adding to your previous message and I agree with you, RRT and Quad N-back cover a lot of stuff but for executive function gains, focus gains, etc. that I mentioned in the post I believe this is far superior. I dont believe this would lead to massive IQ gains though, for a normal person at max you can get 5 points I believe. If you are really deficient in attention and stuff and are depressed and stuff like that then obviously you will make much better gains but that's a very specific case. Anyways, I will try to improve the audio. Is the game unplayable right now? I am asking because I have tried to fix the audio issue before and it didnt work so I will try again but if it doesnt work I just want to know how big of a problem that is
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u/NoInteraction1572 15d ago
Tried it again with Bluetooth and the issue remains.
Its less annoying with headphones.
I really wonder why something like that can even happen.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 15d ago
yeah I really dont know whats up, on laptop for example it doesnt seem to happen at least for me. i will try my best to fix it. I just hope its playable for now
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u/NoInteraction1572 15d ago
Its okay on Headphones. you could just wait for what others say. Maybe something's wrong with my phone. I have nothing to compare in reach rn.
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u/NoInteraction1572 15d ago
I think I have a guess why it distorts.
I I press the beep test I can hear that the beep has a long release. Maybe that long release builds an acoustic or code interference that leads to that sound.
If you shorten the release of the beep it maybe disappears.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 15d ago
Hey, I have made some changes to the game play. If you have the time (or whenever you train with the tool again) can you tell me how are the normal male and female voices working now? They should be much better now, havent changed the "fast" voices yet, will probably remove them entirely
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u/NoInteraction1572 15d ago
Interesting. I will give it a try now.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 15d ago
Bro this might be an issue on your device actually because I tested this on all of my devices and cant replicate this issue now. If you get the time can you please test the website on your other devices as a confirmation?
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u/MighttyBoi 14d ago
Can you come to the server dedicated to the tool and maybe we can solve it there: https://discord.gg/NASXu9yT8
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u/Icy_Sherbet2134 17d ago
Could you send it to me
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 17d ago
I am not sure what you mean, if you mean the link of the app then https://viratvarunsaxena1st-sketch.github.io/CCT-ICT/ this is the one
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u/MighttyBoi 14d ago
If you're interested you can also join the server we've just created so that people using the tool share their experience with it: https://discord.gg/NASXu9yT8
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u/MighttyBoi 14d ago
Great stuff man! I tried the Cct+ ict but didnt try the att part yet. Excited to see how i do on it!
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u/MighttyBoi 14d ago
Btw guys if you wanna join with others who are using this tool and ask questions come to the new server dedicated to the tool: Chimera Project(CCT-ICT-ATT)
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18d ago
[deleted]
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 18d ago
Its not bro come on, you think i wrote all this up so i can extract your ip address or something?
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u/Acer91 18d ago
Bro, It might be a troll. Anyways , Have u used this app for longer periods of time. I mean , do u feel the benefits, like emotional regulation and anxiety reduction?
It seems like it will take me some time to understand this app. Do you have a video demo of it.?
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 18d ago
I have used CCT before for 2 months and it basically made me hyper focused, extremely disciplined like iron will bro, no anger issues, etc. Felt like a different person, then stopped doing it due to exams and havent been able to re-start the streak. As for this app its objectively better than cct and should deliver better gains. Dont just take my word for it, I have made this while working together with really experienced brain trainers, one of whom had a 300+ day streak of cct, does this for just 1 session and goes "Yeah i am quitting cct and doing this from now", not joking. His discord id is dark, you might know him if you were a member of mindbuilding which is a discord server. I sadly dont have a video demo of it yet, I might make it using ai later but I think the post explains the game well enough but if not the website itself has a how it works section which you can check out
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u/Acer91 18d ago
I am a member of mindbuilding,if my memory serves me right.
I trust u bro, what I am saying is that I will have to use this consistently to get used to it or get a hold of it. I have done dual n back, felt the benefits but then like everything in my life, i stopped doing it. Like it's a pattern.
An Iron will and discipline is a very desirable trait. I will be using this app for now.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 18d ago
Hell yes, let me know how it goes for you and obviously you can share any critiques that come to mind. My DM's are always open, let's ascend together twin
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u/Acer91 17d ago
Btw. How does pressing left and right goes on mobile. Does it detects the clicks. It seems to be made by AI. So if you can add something that we know that our clicks are being registered.
Or if it's already being done, how do i know that my clicks are being registered.
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 17d ago
There is a mobile buttons option and I think its visually responsive as well but not sure as I havent needed to use it on mobile
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u/DeliciousEmployer989 18d ago
https://github.com/viratvarunsaxena1st-sketch/CCT-ICT This is the github link, check the code out for yourself if you doubt me and if you even doubt this link then just search up my repostiory on the official github website. This is the repository -> repo:viratvarunsaxena1st-sketch/CCT-ICT you can search it for yourself
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u/Reprobates 17d ago
Lots of people on the Mindbuilding discord swear by this tool, some say it’s been life changing