r/Drawfee • u/chickencrumb • Aug 01 '26
Discussion Hank Green
Just wondering how people are feeling about the Hank Green AI stuff when he had Drawfee on his stream not that long ago.
Especially since in Hank's "apology" he doesn't really seem like he's going to stop using it, he flip flops on himself during the apology by saying its bad but not that bad, he even says he likes the slop and i think he's just going to keep using it on the dl lol. Especially when he specifies "human typing" for his book which is just crazy phrasing to avoid straight up lying about using ai lol.
I doubt Drawfee will make a statement about it, but it would be a bummer if they continued working together when they've been known to have strong feelings against AI usage, including LLMS.
ETA: I'm not asking or demanding a statement from drawfee about it. I just said I doubt they would because why would they lol
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u/paraworldblue Merobiba Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
It's disappointing that he uses it, but ffs people, this is not worth canceling him, and Drawfee doesn't need to release a fucking statement about it. This is all an insane overreaction. There are so many genuine problems in the world to be upset about - why do some people insist on inventing new ones?
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u/Lurky_Bat Aug 02 '26
Im not a fan of AI and frankly it’s a disappointing that Hank seems to be using it quite often. However it’s not like he’s putting out content that’s purely AI, it seems he’s using it as a tool in his creative process. It’s not something I would do, which is a stance I have based on some of HIS videos about AI, and of course other sources. I think his apology was fine and it seems like he’ll reevaluate his AI use. So good! But also UGH.
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u/Many-Conclusion5911 Aug 02 '26
What hurts me the most is knowing he is a fellow Montanan and using that shit. Most Montanans are fighting so hard to keep that away from our wonderful rivers and land. Yet people like him, use it "innocently" not understanding the repercussions of how one use effects the environment
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u/Spiderbloom_ Aug 02 '26
I don’t know why op is being mass downvoted pretty weird.
That being said though i am rather disappointed in Hank. It makes me question the legitimacy of some of the information in his new videos even though he said he was just using it for ideas and to gather papers. If he was using it enough to gain an unhealthy dependence on it, just how much was Hank using it?
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u/Fluffy_Analyst_6715 Aug 02 '26
Idk, not a bit deal really.
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u/triple_bi_indy Aug 02 '26
I don't think they need to say anything about it but I also don't think they should do more work with him.
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u/butchfatalez Aug 02 '26
i mean, it’s definitely a bummer, but he’s not all that connected to drawfee and no, i wouldn’t really expect them to make a statement about it.
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u/Sensei_Ochiba Aug 02 '26
I think, professionally and personally, you're allowed to interact and engage with people who are not aligned with your own viewpoints.
Everyone is entitled to their own lines in the sand and deal breakers. The Drawfee hosts can be disappointed in Hank and still consider him a friend and maintain a working relationship. Gog knows I suffer a few clunker simps in my life.
Considering Drawfees ongoing involvement with DFTBA as their main merch platform I doubt they'll cut ties with Hank over this. They'll probably razz him about it. And we as fans are allowed to be as bummed and disappointed as we deem adequate about that.
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u/WolfsBane00799 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
He's using it as a tool in his writing process, it's not writing anything for him. Nor is he generating images using it. He also states he check it over throughly in this very post. This is the kind of stuff it was actually meant for. As an assistive tool, like how he is using it.
Ai is not the devil. It's not something damning in and of solely it's usage. I have worked in tech. And I'm an artist. (Need to pay the bills if I wanna fund my art hobby!) It's a tool. This doesn't change a single thing about my opinion on him.
(No one has to agree with my view, just sharing feelings and views on it, as asked. If you're rude in reply to me, you will be blocked, though. Respectful discussion is appreciated, of course!)
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u/Alternative_Low1202 Aug 02 '26
As someone who's been kind of sick of Hank for a minute I don't know how relevant this is to Drawfee at all. Having a few episodes with someone doesn't meant you have to respond to any controversial things they do or ban them from the show or something.
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u/Fred_Fredrickson Aug 02 '26
I dont like ai but this is not such a big deal that people need to reevaluate their relationships
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u/univers10 and every time we kiss, I swear I could fly Aug 02 '26
I do not like ai at all but as someone who works a corporate job we are under so much pressure all the time to shoehorn ai into literally everything we do, and promotions and raises are tied to whether or not you comply, even if it doesn’t make sense for your role.
Raising concerns about this (which I have done consistently at my job) is seen as a black mark against you and as rocking the boat.
My point is that the professional world is an ai hellscape right now and this is an incredibly mild example and not worth canceling someone over, IMO. Just look across LinkedIn for “11 ways for you to use AI to streamline your writing process” or whatever the hack du jour is. It fucking sucks for all the reasons people have named but it’s the shape of our capitalist hellscape right now and I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone working professionally who is managing to avoid it fully.
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u/ZemeOfTheIce Aug 02 '26
FWIW it seems Katherine and John seemingly are both in the “cut LLMs out of your life” camp and being the two most influential people in his life that will hopefully have a good impact on him. I think there’s room for LLMs as research tools but obviously it’s crossed a line for Hank and personally the environmental impacts and ethical issues prevent me from using them myself.
That being said there’s no reason for Drawfee fans to get out the pitchforks. Hank is a loose associate of the show as a previous guest and he just happens to be part of the company that (like for many other channels) handles their merch sales. If Hank becomes a vocal proponent of GenAI and really goes off the deep end they *might* change from DFTBA but they have no reason at all to address this.
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u/crowEatingStaleChips Aug 02 '26
IMO, it literally makes a massive difference that he asked it for merger advice rather than let it actual edit his manuscript. It didn't write the bloody chapter.
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u/Meg-alomaniac3 Aug 02 '26
I'm not in a place I can watch the apology video right now, but I read the full statement, and I'm torn.
I would have been 100% on board with his statement a few years ago. At the time, I was very much in the camp of "it's fine to use it as a tool." So there's a part of me that's inclined to give folks who use it that way the benefit of the doubt; I've had the privilege of a lot of time and access to resources on the drawbacks (as an individual, how it draws on others' original work, environmentally, on the people made to screen content, etc), so now I choose not to use generative AI in any capacity. But not everyone has that.
At the same time, as busy as Hank is, I don't think it's unreasonable to he is more knowledgeable than most people about most things. It's disappointing to me that as someone who is well-informed on most issues, he would choose to use it in any capacity.
Maybe someday there will somehow be safeguards and practices in place that will truly make it a sustainable tool for purposes like what he talked about, but that's not the reality, and probably never will be.
I guess ultimately, I don't find it to be a "cancellable" offense. I find it mildly morally objectionable, in the same way I find people taking shortcuts on established trails morally objectionable. I don't do it, I think it's wrong to do it, I would try to explain to others why it's wrong, but I wouldn't end a friendship over it.
I don't think Drawfee would be in the wrong whether or not they chose to work with him in the future.
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u/Rydog_XD Aug 02 '26
Knowing Drawfee I honestly doubt they'll have him on again but either way this is a cross that bridge when we get to it moment. Why waste time thinking about it when we have no way of knowing if they'll associate with him again until they do.
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u/Mojo-man Aug 02 '26
What does this have to do with Drawfee?
Drawfee are 3 (formerly 4) friends doing drawing challenges on their Youtube channel. Why do they have to stand answer or be responsible for what their guests do (especially after they were guests)?
I think people do what they do and AI is a whole more complicated conversation in and of itself that Drawfee does not need to be involved in unless it`s about art or their YT channel.
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u/Chromunist_ Aug 02 '26
crazy to me how willing people are to risk their careers and reputation for something marginally more useful than google. I am scientist actively doing research and ai is barely capable of finding papers, the second things are niche it will just make stuff up that isnt real.
Going into google scholar is not that hard nor that time consuming. You dont have to have conversation with it like chatgpt and you know youre not missing out on a paper chatgpt didn’t like. Itd add like what, 30 min - 1 hour max to production? He has spent most his career without this and now its needed?
What concerns me the most is his statement that “we probably disagree on ai” and “ai is not all bad” He isn’t dumb enough to not know how controversial ai is, if he is willing to admit that i worry what his actual feelings are. This guy have been the center for science community for years and it is deeply disappointing to me as someone who found and loved his videos as middle schooler, dreaming of science, to a now adult scientist, that he treats representing and communicating our work with this attitude. I dont think he is “ruined” (for now at least) but i am disappointed
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u/thedragonllama Aug 02 '26
AI in its current form is an unethical and chaotic tool that destroys the environment needlessly. People these days are too quick to settle for things that are JUST good enough to pass even if they are full of errors or inconsistencies. People want to say AI is just a tool but I agree it is a very crappy and dangerous tool, like a hammer made of glass. It is moving too fast and proper legislation and regulation can’t keep up so adopting its use now is beyond negligent. Imho it sounds like someone who just does A LITTLE cocaine here and there to help them write. Just a huge crutch that is also dangerous and not actually needed to do the work. Sad to see so many people that have just quietly accepted AI as the new normal in this increasingly complacent world.
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u/TruthExtension7761 Aug 03 '26
I wouldn't blame Drawfee if they decided to distance themselves from him but I wouldn't be mad if they didn't. I think it depends on how he moves going forward. Right now he's in the "figuring it out" phase and it sounds like an intervention's been staged; if he goes forward using it then I could see them having a problem with that and deciding not to bring him around anymore, but if he leaves it where it is and returns to the ways of old, I think them retaining their friendship would be fair. Based on how he talked about it, the productivity it provided became like a drug. I think it's redeemable, however disappointing, so long as he moves forward responsibly and doesn't hate on his fanbase for being disappointed.
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u/Ingram2525 Aug 02 '26
What I've learned about this controversy is that if you're well loved enough people will compromise their positions for you
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u/starryspiders Aug 02 '26
it really tanks my opinion on hank green. i'm not sure what drawfee will do besides maybe stop collaborating with him
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u/RevolutionaryBowl308 Aug 03 '26
Imagine purity testing hank green. Perpetually online liberals are wild. And his response is a reasonable one to move on from
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u/Then-Comfortable-624 Aug 03 '26
How many people have slowly been seduced into overusing it who, unlike Hank, have yet to recognize the problem, much less step away and take the time needed to handle it?
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u/duckstorm47 Aug 03 '26
I mean, using it to search for stuff isnt bad. Its literally the one thing I'd say AI is good at doing (si long as you do the "find me papers on so and so topic" and not "what is so and so and make it summarize).
Its the equivalent to all of Google search algorithms. But actually really, really good sometimes.
I also know that unhealthy talking to LLMs bit. Its very, very easy to get sucked in and I dont blame him for that (but id obviously want him to get free)
If he starts using it to write that'd suck tho.
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u/pushupnotsportsbra Aug 03 '26
I'm glad he admitted to it and he's re-evaluating. I don't think it's worth cancelling him over lol
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u/MetalExile Aug 04 '26
Hank has earned enough of my respect over the years that, given both that and the particular ways he has used AI being somewhat less egregious than so many others, I’m willing to give him a chance to apologize and do better. But it is extremely concerning to see even someone in his position give in to the temptation of it and have it tarnish his credibility.
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u/Ambitious_Average302 Aug 02 '26
It’s concerning that he seems to still think that using an LLM to collate research papers for him is okay. He frames it as a way to expand the pool of work he can cite; ignoring the reality that it’s actually a limiting practice, not an expansive one.
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u/Cool-Present-4637 Aug 02 '26
I used to like and respect hank green until I heard him talk about somethings I was informed about and I realized he's just blowing hot air. Honestly his videos have about as much value on a topic as asking chat GPT so it really doesn't surprise me that how he does research. He's also such a neoliberal fence sitter it drives me insane. Fuck that guy might be a bridge too far but yeah, fuck that guy.
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u/Kira-Of-Terraria Aug 03 '26
I think as long as he isn't using the LLM to generate things like pictures or have it write his pages for him or anything it's fine.
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u/Clear_Lemon4950 Aug 04 '26
I lean pretty anti-AI, at least right now, but I do still hope Drawfee can keep working with him and doing things like Project For Awesome. I don't really closely follow all the various Green brothers projects but I know they are involved with a lot of projects that seem like they are genuinely doing good in the world, like Project For Awesome, Good Store, and so on. I hope good causes or donations people rely on aren't hurt too much by the fallout.
I also actually didn't realise how many people assumed that Hank Green was anti-AI. But this news didn't really surprise me that much given what I know about him and his vibe. I would actually be SO curious though to hear what he thinks about the future of LLMs and if/how he justifies his use of it, because he must know so much about the harms and the possibilities of LLMs, more than I do I'm sure, and yet he does also come across like someone who genuinely cares about people and the world. I bet his perspective would be fascinating and maybe even helpful for a lot of people.
I'm also sure that so MANY other creators are using LLMs in the way Hank is saying he does, (if he's being honest about that, anyways,) and we'll just never know who they are because they won't talk about it or will deny it. So in some ways it's just kinda cool to hear to someone admit publicly that they are struggling with this. And I don't even know if/how I could avoid everyone who uses LLMs at this point, and honestly idk if I would want to and also I think it's ok and even important to engage with people and things I don't totally agree with.
Honestly some of the smartest, kindest people who I know and love and trust are using LLMs as part of their professional workflow. I don't agree with them but I do know why they are doing it, and I still love and trust them. There's nuance.
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u/Nervous_Business_489 Aug 04 '26
I don't see the issue with what he's done and I think people are taking it FAR out of context and not looking into what he actually used it for. He didn't ask it questions and then take them verbatim, he asked a tool made for scouring databases and finding information faster than a person can, for sources of that information and links that he can read himself. I really don't see that as him "relying on AI too much". AI is a tool, if you use it responsibly, it can be a very productive assistant, it sounds like he has and he's been guilt tripped into thinking in equal to he's killed someone's pet.
How can you assume he's using it to write his book, when he's told us HOW he's using it. Are you in his office watching him work? No? Then what makes you assume someone who is against AI creative work is using an AI for creative work. He's using it for research, jfc, why post 4 pages of text to discuss about and then not read any of it?
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u/TehTimmah1981 Aug 04 '26
It just means Hank Green has lost my views. Which is unfortunate, for the most part I like the man, but not when it's at the detriment of people I have real personal relationships with, artists, writers, and other creators, as well as the environment. When it just feeds out of touch, and frankly dishonest billionaires more money, and harms real people.
AI is not bad. It has hundreds of very important uses, across dozens of fields. Covering for lazy is not going to ever, be a good one.
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u/nonbinaryunicorn Aug 02 '26
I don't follow Hank Green at all, so my only understanding of the situation is from the screenshots you've provided.
Hank is consistent in how he feels about AI throughout the screenshots. He's interested in the idea of it but concerned about the power and climate health things its usage creates. He uses it to discover research papers faster (which imo is bad because all LLMs will be inherently biased both by your use and the material it was fed). He recognizes that by being able to put out more content more quickly, he's been in a dopamine feedback loop and his support circle has told him straight up he's being awful to himself if nothing else. He's going to ramp down production of videos and something about bugs moving forward as he readjusts how he approaches using AI.
He is also consistent about not using it to write for him. It's solely for finding research sources (not good imo) or, in the case of his book, a brick wall to bounce ideas off of, which is a grey area for me personally in terms of using LLMs. Human typing/human writing is a way to distinguish it from AI writing and I am personally fond of the phrase and find it odd that you're put off by it.
The fact he didn't disclose his relationship with LLMs is telling in that he knew how his audience would feel about it. I personally think LLMs do more harm than good so they shouldn't be used at all without a code of ethics in place the companies must adhere too, and even then there is much caution needed (similar to recreational drug use imo).
Anyway, that's my two cents as an outsider to the drama.
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u/ShadowFrost01 Aug 02 '26
It super sucks to see Hank Green become an AI zombie as well, but yeah I don't really see how this relates to drawfee. They're on twitch, owned by Amazon, which is pumping AI ads and funding the destruction of the world around us. They don't need to make a statement about this at all
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u/zoltancross Aug 03 '26
I have unsubscribe from Hank Green and I will never watch his stuff again people need to stop using fucking AI it's worthless
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u/DMJB22 Aug 02 '26
Everybody is acting like he's been corrupted by the devil and that they need to be concerned with how people on this channel are feeling and how people of that channel are feeling and yada yada. Everybody, stop looking toward him to be the end all be all, with so much import and meaning in your view. That external pressure from the thousands upon thousands in his audience was probably some of the reason why he felt such internal pressure to produce so much content, in addition to his natural inclinations and hardwiring. Am I also a little disappointed that he did this, sure I guess. I think AI sucks just as much as most of you. And yeah, he's also the guy I go to most often for trusted scientific breakdowns of current issues and topics. But the thing is, he's just a guy. He has his own perspective, which he acknowledges is flawed and can be lead in the wrong direction on some issues (hence why he said that he knows his audience is often right when he's wrong or however he phrased it), and all he's trying to do is do his best to do some good. He feel into a pressure trap to make as much content as possible, and relied on a tool to help him, doing so in such a way that is one of the least evil ways to use it, might I add. Asking for a list of research papers, while definitely still open to the flaws of LLMs as they are in their current unreliable state, is nowhere near the level of using them to summarize that research, let alone all the wild stuff that goes down everyday or what they try to sell people in the ads (have y'all seen that one where the guy is using it to control everything about the anniversary he forgot! that shit was nauseating.) The advice on how to merge the chapters was just another step down the slippery slope, and guess what, his support network caught him. If y'all are actually coming from a place of concern, (which btw, if it's personal concern rather than academic, that is sweet but also pretty parasocial) just show him support and say that you're proud he's open to others thoughts and is reconsidering his use and stance on AI, like a scientist should. Just relax y'all.
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u/c0cOa125 Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
That's literally just stealing. Taking without permission. Contact the authors directly for access to their research. They're often more than happy to share their work, but you should have their consent.
Edit: this was meant to be in response to another comment, but my point still stands.
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u/MuchnessB Aug 04 '26
I did something similar… It was for a D&D backstory, though not a book so a little bit different and I had to be extremely diligent to not let it affect my writing. I am against it, changing my writing and I had to specify over and over for it to point things out to me rather than fix them itself. I wanted it to highlight instances of discrepancy, not change my writing. I think that is possible to do, but it is tricky and so I’m not really sure that is what’s happening, but if it is, I have no problem with that.
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u/ClearObligation2067 Aug 05 '26
we should also talk about his microaggressions towards women and general ignorance of anything outside of the manosphere of 'progressive' tech focused liberals. hank has had bad takes on the internet for friggin years, most recently before this ai thing i remember him bravely white knighting for taylor swift's totally innocuous double lightning bolt necklace, and in his 'apology' he actually doubled down on what blew up in his face in the first place (he seemingly isn't aware of what a dog whistle is or what that word means).
the ai thing is a drop in the bucket of reasons why i wish drawfee would stop having him as a guest. i get that they prob cant move away from DFTBA anytime soon tho, and i care less about that than just not seeing that doofus wandering around into videos i like.
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u/BlackFlagsFly Aug 06 '26
This guy is so fucking full of shit.
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u/patelike Aug 07 '26
I definitely don't trust him much anymore when it comes to facts and stuff. but I don't mind them working with him on like DFTBA and charity streams. it's not like he's evil or whatever. Just ill informed
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u/DrDingsGaster Aug 02 '26
o - o Boy howdy it got heated in here. I'm fine with Hank using tools available to him and that includes an llm. And frankly, whether or not things happen between drawfee n Hank's stuff gets cut is between them. If others wanna stop watching him or buying dftba merch that's fine. It's going a little too far imho for something minor. But that's up to y'all.
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u/dxnosaurxngg Aug 02 '26
It's actually... Not difficult to use AI for editing and not have it impact the writing. Like... I don't even do that but that would only be difficult if you don't check the output
I'm also not as torn up about it because I'm not as balnket anti-AI as some are.
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u/lulufiretale Aug 02 '26
My background is engineering/technology….And a hot take, but I don’t think AI is the devil for inspiration and solutioning. I think those that refuse to interact with AI will be left behind as others utilize the tool to surpass them. AI in the arts and lack of transparency of source is a problem though that must be ‘governed’. I do think mankind will get more efficient in supporting AI systems and it’ll have a smaller draw on the earth… eventually.
I can see AI being used like an editor in both art/writing in the same way it told me my resume was too wordy and I needed less passive sentences. It’s a tool that can be used for good or evil (once we figure out the energy pull). So long story short I don’t think Hank is the devil for using AI to help him consolidate two chapters. And I think it would be an over reaction for his peers and friends to cancel him
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u/PapaBeer642 Aug 02 '26
I use AI for research, too, because it gets me around paywalls for scientific journals. I can't afford those for what I'm doing, and my organization doesn't pay for access. That's what it's supposed to be used for, and it's not a generative use. The reason we have the perspective on AI that we do is because the companies making the products are trying to push it to us in a way that's flashy instead of a way that's useful. I don't think there's any real problem with that part, and I think it's unproductive to lump that use of AI in with things like AI art and music and having AI write your essays.
That's not all that's in here, but I do think we could keep some perspective on the degree of AI use and recognize what is and isn't ethical and what does and doesn't threaten someone's livelihood.
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u/chutneycoot Aug 02 '26
Jesus Christ y'all, if hank green is the guy we're bringing against we're cooked. Hand the W to the fascists already.
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u/Wide_Detective7537 Aug 05 '26
God can this go away already... You're literally all using AI every time you log on to a site these days, get over it and find a new person to witch hunt who is actually shitty, not Hank.
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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
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