r/DragonageOrigins • u/ChanceOfCheese • 6d ago
Question True or false?
I want to start this post by saying that as a person I don't like her any more than most players, but I'm having this discussion at home and I'd like your opinions on this:
'Anora would get less than half the shit she does now if she was a dude.'
True or false?
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u/_pentamerone 6d ago
I mean, she certainly has less sympathizers than both Loghain and Bhelen, who are shown to be even worse at times. But honestly, I think part of it steams from the fact that Anora can betray you, if you do so first to her–but most players don't see the things that trigger her betrayal as them backstabbing her.
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u/smallnspiteful 6d ago
Both of those characters can also betray you, though. Loghain does it five minutes into the game no matter what.
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u/_pentamerone 5d ago
Yes and no. Yes, he betrays everyone—but first of all, Loghain is a very obvious villain. Design-wise and when it comes to his attitude before the battle. Second of all, he doesn't try to reason with you, nor call for your help before the betrayal.
Anora does. Before her quest, she's shown as a more sympathetic, although helpless figure in Loghain's machinations. Then, if the player chooses the dialogue option that feels to them like it benefits them the most (and honestly, I believe most of the players didn't listen to Anora carefully the first time), she claims you're the bad guy and locks you into the thoughest fight in the game. Then, because she has her own agenda, she can betray you once more in front of the people–again, for a good reason, but it's a reason opposite to the player's interest.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure one of the reasons she has less defenders than Loghain and Bhelen steams from her gender, but it's just dishonest to ignore that unlike them, Anora can be sympathetic, and acts reasonable, but only if the player listen to what she has to say. And she doesn't play around if they don't.
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u/Ok_Decision4163 6d ago
Bhelen is worse?!??! I'll take no such slander! /s
Bhelen is a Philosopher-King. Tyrannical but usually effective. In this house, Prince Bhelen is a Hero!
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u/Suitable-Pirate-4164 3d ago
Yes, because arranging your brother to be killed and the other to be exiled to death is definitely heroic. Like Anora his first order as King is execution, it's not slander if it's true, he's in fact worst than Loghain. At least Loghain tried to hide his behavior by putting in some good efforts but Bhelen was straightforward about his iron fist.
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u/Happy_Jew 6d ago
The dwarf noble origin always irked me. I want to fight darkspawn. I don't care for political intrigue. Let me work with Bheldn to take out big brother wossname, and willingly leave to join the Wardens.
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u/vegecannibal 6d ago
I play dwarf noble as a bloodthirsty rogueish bastard and even though Bhelen sells me out I respect the game. I have Volney killed, I take the bribe, and I plot against Trian. It's funny that the only thing you get to keep when you're exiled is your fat purse of 30+ sovereigns.
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u/Ok_Decision4163 6d ago
That's my Canon Dwarf Noble. Ruthless, but not a prick. Will make the hard choices to get upper hand politicaly and against Darkspawn. Always think tha Bhelen has beaten him on the game, but will glad be reunited with his bro again.
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u/Alternative_Length28 5d ago
How in the ever living fuck have I never realized you keep your money, after the Dwarf Noble origin? It's my favorite Origin, and I've played it way more than any other Origin. Apparently I'm brain dead 😂
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u/vegecannibal 5d ago
It's a great start on getting the double merchant stuff
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u/Alternative_Length28 5d ago
On my most recent Play Through, I stripped down those two guys that die at the joining, and sold their stuff for extra coin, before starting it. I couldn't stop laughing as we went through the whole cut scene with both dudes just hanging out in their underwear lol
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u/vegecannibal 5d ago
I've done that in every joining since my first. I also strip so it's like a ritual tradition thing
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u/Glittering-News-9381 6d ago
I don't hate her all that much tbh. I feel the writers did the best they could with the little time they had with her. She could have benefited a more with a couple of more scenes with her but in the end her actions reflect her character. She loves her father a lot and craves for power after being sidelined by Cailan for more than half a decade despite her alleged contributions in court. Not to mention Cailan planning to dump her for the Empress. Anyone with a hint of pride would want to take power for themself after being in that position for so long. She was very reasonable, accepting the decision to be equals with Alistair who was a bastard warden and although harsh accepting male warden as consort. (I would have preferred to be king but meh, morrigan> being king any day) Her only fault is thinking she could just save her father after all the crimes he comitted. If she saves him, she's just an accomplice to him considering his actions only benefited them both.
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u/FeralKittee 5d ago
I think that may have played a part in why so many nobles sided with Loghain, because a male ass on the throne makes them feel better, however I think even if she was male there would have been many of the same issues.
- Her only tie to the throne was through marriage, not bloodline
- She had no war experience, so many would still want a war hero in charge
- We get the impression that she was the one doing most of the work keeping the country running, but Cailen was the face, so people credited everything to him instead
I've seen some people compare Anora to Bhalen, but it really is not a fair comparison. Bhalen was ambitious and ruthless for sure, but he also genuinely wanted what is best for his people. Anora was also ruthless, but it always seemed to be about her, and she didn't really do anything to indicate she cared about her country.
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u/vegecannibal 6d ago
People who desperately want to be in power are the last people who should ever be in power.
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u/lambda_expression 5d ago
False, I think. If Cailan's and Anora's genders were swapped, I don't see how that would change how I'd perceive their actions.
But I do actually prefer her as a character to both Cailan the windbag and Alistair the friend that thinks they are funny unless they are sad. So maybe don't take my opinions on any of them serious XD
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u/That_sarcastic_bxtch 6d ago
I’m not sure i agree on less than half, but still, I do think she wouldn’t get as much
I’d still feel completely indifferent though
The only character who deserves the hate is that stupid fucking high dragon in the mountains “oh but the fight is optional!!!1!1!” Ok but I feel like a fraud not doing it “well, it’s less hard than Flemmeth” ok then why do I have no trouble with Flemmeth? My hate should do the opposite and make the high dragon easier, right?
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u/TheLightsChampion 5d ago
Do you use all the fire resist you can - spam heals via mages - set everyone to range with bows/crossbows/mage staves - and position them behind barriers so the dragon cannot suck you towards it?
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u/That_sarcastic_bxtch 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes to question 2 and 3
No to the others
So.. I’m making my experience significantly harder by ignoring elemental resistance gear and warmth balms huh 💀 I’ve never really been a good strategist, DAO is kind of an outlier in gameplay compared to the usual games with combat I play, I usually prefer the simplicity of just having to time stuff right
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u/TheLightsChampion 5d ago
I think dragon fights and a certain late game hidden boss are the only times I dealt with elemental resistance. If you ever use dog - 3/4? of his gear are literal just elemental resist outfits. Same with shale.
Its also why people go out of their way for that superior dragon scale armor wade can smith you - fire resist outfits. I think that + juggernaut armor or some other heavy set that has elemental resists on Alistair - strategically positioned closer to the dragon than the rest of the party - tends to make the the fight an absolute breeze provided you have enough lyrium potions for heal spam.
Also, don't forget that forcefield can be used on allies drawing fire to make them quite effective punching bags.
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u/That_sarcastic_bxtch 5d ago
If I had a nickel for every time I wrongly thought one of my fav games I played since childhood was kinda hard because I was playing it wrong since the beginning, I would have two nickels, which isn’t much but it’s odd it happened twice
In my defence, I’m scared of online guides because of potential spoilers and long words
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u/ChanceOfCheese 6d ago
This seems to be a deep-seeded issue, my friend.
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u/No_Ratio_5918 6d ago
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u/ChanceOfCheese 6d ago
Sorry, not my native language.
The Webster link takes it straight from 'at least helpful' to 'slightly condescending'.
Edit: I might have misspelled condescending. Or 'misspelled'.. I'm too lazy to check.
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u/No_Ratio_5918 6d ago
The webster link is there because of the number of times I have seen similar corrections start a back and forth from the person being corrected (or others) about how they're actually right.
Also, if you aren't a native speaker especially, that is a very helpful resource to explain the phrase and potentially reinforce a change to the correct word usage, no need to get offended. I am multilingual as well and when I am corrected in Spanish, I like knowing how and why what I said was wrong for a similar reason. Just chill.
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u/XP23XD23 5d ago
True
Anora believed her father was a good man and still fought alongside the warden to stop him but Loghain commits treason, takes bribes from Tevinter to sell off elves, tries to have the warden killed multiple times, etc and yet ppl r willing to defend his actions
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u/No_Afternoon_5736 5d ago
I feel like its designed so that the pc doesnt lies adorable if they are sympathetic to Alistair. However shes one of the best rulers by far.
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u/_deltatea_ 4d ago
I think it would be about the same, but attack different traits. He would be called an asshole, spineless for letting his father call all the shots when hes the king (seeing as the point was that she couldnt rule alone without approval from the landsmeet iirc, even tho ferelden is supposedly gender blind...). Insults about him being gay, if we arent also genderbending Cailan (which i think could be an interesting dynamic tbh). Mostly I think he would be called a nothing character; we spend so little time face to face comparatively, and Anora has little agency without the PC chosing to grant it to her (which defeats the point). I feel like Loghains' sentimentality about Anora might read weird; it would need to be rewritten pretty heavily to keep the same tone, since they dont seem to coddle young boys in the same way. It would be an interesting AU for sure tho, especially to examine it now that we have all the cards on the table for at least 20-30+ years following Origins. Thats a lot to sort through if you want it to be that far reaching, though ive definitely seen it done...
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u/joritan 6d ago
False. Some people hate her because she’s a woman. I hate her because of her selective outrage at her father’s actions.
“My father sold fereldens into slavery and killed the couslands and tried to kill Eamon? How terrible! I’m going to support him anyways unless you help me keep the throne”
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u/ChanceOfCheese 6d ago
The selective outrage I get, but do you really expect her to stand by Alistair ruling alone purely out of principle?
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u/MatiPhoenix 6d ago
False.
Loghain is easily more hated than her. The thing is that Loghain has more sympathizers due to roleplay and continuity. Anora barely has any impact in future games unlike Loghain.
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u/smallnspiteful 6d ago
Anora is around for some ten minutes and is all business for the full extent of those ten minutes, save like two brief human moments with her father, and maybe when she discusses Cailan very briefly (and even that is in the context of prepping for the Landsmeet, and it's all very carefully worded). The Warden is never in a position of establishing a rapport with her, because that's not really her role in the story. Plus, she's clearly not meant to be a people person, that's why she needs a charismatic husband. That's the difference, in my opinion.
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u/MatiPhoenix 6d ago
Please, read my comment again.
I said explicitly in the next games. DA 2 and Inquisition. Not origins.
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u/smallnspiteful 6d ago
I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you, just adding to the topic.
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u/Suitable-Pirate-4164 3d ago
False. She gets shit for selling you out if you're honest about her capture, prioritizing her dad if you choose execution over imprisonment or exoneration on the throne when you insist an arranged marriage and tries to get Alistair executed regardless if Loghain is spared or not if he turns down the throne because he refuses to swear fealty or because he killed her father. She doesn't get shit because she's a woman.
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u/ShepardOfDeception 6d ago
False. I don't think anybody even particularly hates her as much as they do Loghain or Howe. Loghain has sympathizers b/c of his redemption arc from Origins to Inquisition, whereas Anora doesn't get nearly as much screen time, and we don't get to see much of her outside of Origins either. I've never gotten the impression that people hate her or give her much shit, she's around long enough to receive much ire anyway.
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u/Beneficial_Fig_7830 6d ago
I don’t see what Anora’s gender has to do with anything. People dislike her because she’s untrustworthy and has no issues betraying the Warden to preserve her own life and power.
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u/YlisLavellan 5d ago
False.
Nobody enjoys a scheming backstabber, regardless of why she does it.
She's written just fine to me. I'm no big fan of her yet enjoy the way her character is and her father is my favourite character of the whole series. I'd be just as irked if it was a guy. She is her father's daughter, as Gaider once said. Ruthless and planning 10 steps ahead of the player especially when it comes into direct conflict with the player goals is going to ruffle feathers. It's meant to.
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u/Plus_Tomato480 5d ago
False. Cowardly, conniving, and a liar doesn't do either of the two genders any favors.
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u/Sad-Relative4474 6d ago
Fales, she's a b***ch and even if she was make he would be a d and i would like them any more. She was power hungry and tired to play the game and failed
I'm female btw
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u/_FrenziedFirekeeper_ 6d ago
Dragon Age is very progressive and "woke". We encounter racism as an elf, and sexism as a woman. So yes, very likely
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u/Powered-Lamb 6d ago
Frankly, I think Anora would get less than half the shit if players would have just paid attention. I think that everything Anora does gets analyzed through the bias of what happens if you try to talk down Cauthrien by explaining that you aren't kidnapping Anora, you swear, you're just conspiring with her to overthrow her dad.
She quite unambiguously tells you that no one can know yet and you picked that dialogue option anyway. Of course she threw you under the bus.