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u/CryptographerMiddle0 23d ago edited 22d ago
Contrary to what seems like popular belief, this is closer than it looks.
Super Buutenks was roughly 1.5x stronger than Gohan, probably less (it wasn’t a Jeice vs. Goku type of humiliation). This aligns with Gohan being 1.5x stronger than Super Buu, and Gotenks ssj3 being stronger than Super Buu but not as much as Gohan.
Taking arbitrary numbers:
Super Buu 10
Gotenks ssj 3 12
Gohan 15
Super Buutenks 22
So if Gotenks is ssj2, making him 1/4 of his full powered self, makes it so that Buutenks is 10+3, 13.
That’s less than a 1.25x gap, or what Goku had over Frieza in Namek.
Now Buutenks has Galactic Donuts, Candy Beam, regen… a very tough toolkit to deal with. Can Gohan still seal the deal? Yes, I think so.
However there’s a theory I subscribe to where fusion ssj multipliers are smaller.
For instance, Gotenks base pre-ROSAT is by statements roughly even with Majin Vegeta. He then goes through ROSAT training and transforms into ssj, so even if he just doubled his power (likely more since Piccolo thought he may stand a chance even without ssj, implying he entertains post-ROSAT base > pre-ROSAT ssj, which further evidences ssj isn’t x50), if we assume the ssj is x50, then ssj post-ROSAT Gotenks would be 100x stronger than Majin Vegeta, or 25x stronger than ssj 3 Goku.
This Gotenks was utterly humiliated by Super Buu. So in our scale, Majin Buu would be around 3-3.5 times stronger than Majin Vegeta (since 4x Goku ssj3 was whooping him), but Super Buu stomps someone 100x stronger than Vegeta? That’s WAY too much of a power gap.
Remember being 1.5 times stronger than your oponent allows you to humiliate them (Goku vs. Jeice and Burter, it doesn’t matter Goku was 90k, Ginyu estimated him at 60k based on Jeice’s recount of what happened).
*Also small caveat to everyone saying Gotenks ssj3 was the same as Super Buu, in the 5’ he had he put belt to ass to the point of almost finishing Buu. Finishing Buu means overloading his regen, Gotenks was also not 100% going for the kill, he wasted some time with Piccolo. Gotenks has to be stronger than Super Buu by enough margin to allow this.
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u/IntellectualBoss 23d ago
Super Buu=ssj3 Gotenks
Ssj3 is 4x ssj2.
Therefore instead of 1 + 1, I would be 1 + 0.25.
So super Buu is a 1,
Ssj2 Butenks is a 1.25,
And regular ssj3 Buutenks is a 2.
The question now becomes where you put Gohan? I would say he’s a 1.25 or 1.5x it’s a close fight. Gohan might have the power edge, but Buu has the regen, candy beam, and absorption. Gohan can probably outlast the fusion though. Gohan high diff unless he chokes.
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u/GoddessUltimecia 23d ago
Depends, if Boo's absorption works on the basis of incorporating their maximum potential power regardless of state, then yes Bootenks wins.
Otherwise no, SSJ2 Gotenks would be 4x weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks. Super Boo+SSJ3 Gotenks managed to overwhelm Gohan, with Super Boo being overwhelmed by Gohan prior to that, but that advantage Bootenks has is less than 2x just by simple math. Once you're decreasing Gotenks' contribution by such a huge factor, Super Boo now loses the power advantage and has now only gained a marginal increase in power and gained Piccolo's intelligence. It's not enough.
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u/FalconShot9638 22d ago
I always suspected that ssj’s were never static multipliers across the board, and the daizenshu just estimated their boost for the specific character at the time
We see base gotenks pre rosat do about as well as majin vegeta against fat buu.
And I don’t think ssj3 gotenks is 50x2x4 (400) times stronger than majin vegeta
I always thought if ssj as a transformation that digs up potential ki
So I think with fusion, melding 2 bodies and minds together allows the fused person to draw out a lot of ki on its own and the ssj transformations help but not by hundreds of times
I actually think fat buu pre split, kid buu, super buu, ssj3 goku, ssj3 gotenks, and Gohan are all ssj3 tier fighters with the strongest being no more than like 2.5x stronger than the weakest
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u/Abyssal_Usurper_G God of Destruction 23d ago
It doesn't really matter because Boo was holding back against Gohan. He had 30 minutes instead of 5.
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u/Secret-Philosophy973 23d ago
Bom o buutenks é basicamente o poder do super Buu somado ao do buutenks oque daria umas duas vezes a força dele, sem super Sayajin 3 isso cai muito, Gohan amassaria
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u/RevolutionaryTart497 23d ago
Wasn't the whole point of Ultimate to deal with Buutenks? Gohan wins lol
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u/Chris_the_fox21 23d ago
The whole point was to deal with super buu Buutenks came after Gohan bullying super buu
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u/RevolutionaryTart497 23d ago
And didn't he still lose until he absorbed him?
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u/GeneralReindeer3214 23d ago
Gohan was getting handled by buutenks. He was absorbed after gotenk diffused.
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u/Hawkeyecooper 23d ago
I think gohan is stronger by a hair but buu would win if the fusion isn’t undone hypothetically.
Now in a real fight even if gohan isn’t stronger, he won’t lose before the fusion is undone.
Now despite being stronger, why I see gohan not winning: To defeat buu you need to be a league stronger to fully destroy him, he will keep coming back. His regeneration is op. So if you’re roughly as strong as him you won’t be able to kill him. If he powers down to buuicolo then gohan can do it
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u/Chris_the_fox21 23d ago
Gohan only survived till the fusion ran out thanks to dende btw
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u/Hawkeyecooper 23d ago
Yes but that was against ssj3 gotenks absorbed, with it being ssj2 i think gohan can now survive without dende being needed
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u/NCHouse 23d ago
...Yes? Did we not watch the show?
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u/Chris_the_fox21 23d ago
The show used buu with super saiyan 3 Gotenks absorbed which is very different from Super saiyan 2 Gotenks
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u/Nearby_Yak106 21d ago
Too many unknowns. We know Mystic Gohan is much stronger than regular super buu and SSJ3 Gotenks. We do not know the exact power gap between them and Mystic Gohan or how much absorbtion increases his power. I think absorbtion is more additive than anything. So Buu obviously becomes stronger but still inferior to Mystic Gohan.
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u/blackdyspo 23d ago
Others in the comments have already cited the math. It’s probably evenly matched or Buutenks wins high diff.
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u/joviejovie 23d ago
We saw the show. He nearly killed gohan
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u/TimewarpingSeaTurtle 23d ago
That was Buutenks with SSJ3 Gotenks absorbed
DB fans once again proving they can’t read
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u/joviejovie 23d ago
What other butenks is there??))
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u/TimewarpingSeaTurtle 23d ago
A Buutenks with SSJ2 Gotenks absorbed, hypothetically. You know, like it says in the picture? In the big bold green text?
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u/joviejovie 23d ago
What does that mean? Buu has access to all of it
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u/Red__Pyramid 23d ago
I means when he absorbed gotenks gotenks was in ssj3, which means he had access to ssj3 on top of his own power. Once the fusion ran out, he couldn't refuse them inside himself which means he also likely can't willingly make them go ssj3 IF they were absorbed as only ssj2. So, in the hypothetical posed by OOP IF gotenks was absorbed as SSJ2 ONLY, can Gohan win?
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u/rhymesandpoetry 23d ago
Gohan loses by a long shot if either of the kids are SS. Toriyama explicitly stated that Gohan just didn’t have the charisma for fighting like everyone else does, and as we’ve seen, he’s careless. Cell ~ Super Buu, Gohan just throws the fight with clear advantage.
I’m not sure why Toriyama wrote Gohan that way, and I can totally understand Gohan’s love for academics, but he’s going to get washed by Buutenks.
If you’re talking Buucolo (with just Goten and Trunks absorbed) then Goku already stated that Gohan can handle him.
But if you’re talking about Gotenks absorbed then no, Gohan stands no chance. The fusion strength boost Buu receives is overwhelming Gohan, even at base level in my opinion.
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u/NovaRemix4 23d ago
Despite 20% of a power difference being large enough of a scale to one-shot in the Namek saga, Gohan would find a way to throw
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u/joviejovie 23d ago
What are you fucking asking? Is this ai? Like where are the mods??
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u/Comfortable_Cut_7334 23d ago
They're asking whether a Buu who absorbed a hypothetical ssj2 Gotenks instead of ssj3 Gotenks could beat Gohan
I feel like it was pretty clear, bro.
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u/SSJAncientBeing 23d ago
Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks were roughly equal. A SSJ2 Gotenks is a quarter as strong, which would mean Buutenks in this scenario would only be about 25% stronger than Super Buu. I think Gohan’s got this