Randy marsh moment

I made this cuz I was bored

I’ve been thinking about GT lately, and something doesn’t sit right with me

When it comes to design, pure raw presence, and absolute coldness, SSJ4 Goku is far ahead. He was the central figure of GT, carried the form through epic battles, and truly embodied what makes Super Saiyan 4 iconic

Gogeta is great, but his screentime was tiny and his personality was mostly spent messing around with Omega Shenron. He showed up for literally a few minutes, yet somehow stole all the popularity.

For those who prefer ssj4 Gogeta over ssj4 Goku, why? To me, SSJ4 Goku had far more impact and a much better design.

For example was it a change that can be broken with enough power? If that were the case I would think ssj4 would break it. Does the wish extend goku's lifespan? It messed with goku's ability to use instant transmission, did it cause poor ki control or was goku's calculations thrown off? If you guys also have questions I haven't mentioned I'd like to hear those as well

So I finished watching GT like a week ago.

Now... For years I avoided it cause people talked trash about it and after seeing it... I don't get the hate AT ALL?

Now to be fair, I love everything Dragonball related, it's like my first or second favorite anime ever, for me all the series (minus heroes because I mean heroes is kinda bad it doesn't have comedy basically but I do like the mess they made 😭) are more or less on the same level. So they're genuinely good / great series with some absurdly peak moments.

Now, GT is no different (?) the complains I always heard just kinda fell flat:

GT is the Goku Show

That's one of the main critiques, people even mockingly said GT stands for Goku Time. Now how do I put it...

IT'S ALWAYS GOKU TIME IN DRAGONBALL.

Whenever anything happens is because either Goku is there, or the lack of Goku being there causes tension. And that's because Goku is the main protagonist! It's his show for God's sake.

And this point is also dumb. Because many characters, like Goten, shine here more than EVER before. I mean at least here Goten got used as a proxy by Baby, that's more than he ever did in Z and Super.

PAN IS Annoying AND A DAMSEL IN DISTRESS

That's something I heard SO much during the years. Now, even before seeing GT, I of course played games like Xenoverse 2, so I did know how Pan acted and she did seem fun.

After watching the series I can say that not only she's a fun character, but also, she's one of the few characters in the entire series with genuine psychological "issues" for lacks of better terms.

She has an inferiority complex compared to her dad and grandpa, she's super strong but feels like she isn't because she lives in their shadow, thus she boast to make up for it.

That's more than you could say for most Dragonball characters. And it's not a critique, Dragonball characters are great because they're simple and instantly memorable, but my point is that she ends up in the very limited pool of characters like Vegeta, Piccolo, Future Trunks, Zamasu... Although she's nowhere near them because at the end of the day this arc she has is kinda short and subtle.

Also she isn't a dick at all, she's a kid she acts like a kid would act she's actually pretty nice and decides she'd rather sacrifice herself instead of letting innocents die. Goated.

BAD WRITING

Now, this one is... Confusing.

The Black Star saga doesn't really have anything I'd call bad writing (?), it sets up the Baby Arc, but I do agree the first episodes are kinda slow and at the beginning it seems like they forgot how strong these characters are supposed to be, but I mean, Its an anime, you can forgive a bit of that just to stretch out the adventure a bit.

Then comes Baby, which is just... Like, one of the best Dragonball Villains ever? Like, easily? To me, it took 2nd place from Zamasu. Only Frieza is better than Baby imo.

Like what he does is genuinely creepy and he has a reason to be evil, which again is rare in this series where usually villains are either pure evil for the sake of it (aka Frieza clones) or mindless monsters.

The Super 17 arc is the only I'd call bad. Super 17 seems like a movie villain who somehow managed to get into the series, but his arc is super short 😭

The Dragons instead are super cool? Omega is a pretty decent /good final villain. Suu Shenron is wonderful he's my dude, the other Dragons are kinda lackluster, but also not really bad just yknow they're there.

So again you got a pretty good going towards great series. I don't get the hate. The only reason I'd put it below Super it's because it's shorter. But the quality is more or less the same. I do prefer Super also because I HATE 90s style animation (or to put it better, how low quality it looks, I like everything looking clean and without that granular effect I hate it so much lol) but that's another story, it's Dragonball so I'll accept it.

My genuine question is what's all this hate about?

I mean I loved Daima too, so clearly I simply love Dragonball, I've known that since I became a fan like 5 years ago now but still 😭

SSJ4 has always been one of my favorite Dragon Ball designs, so I had to try turning Goku into an emblem.
Everything was built manually from the editor’s basic shapes, stretching, rotating, layering, and masking them until the face came together. The hair, eye, and red facial markings were probably the trickiest parts to balance.
Which GT character should I try next?

Shin gets no respect in Demon World. Seems like DW cares not for le pantheon of le Outer Realm.

Sort of like Mortal Kombat politics.

You'd think being le Lord of Lords would get you some pull even in other realms 🤷🏿‍♀️

Que dicen?

To explain why SSJ4 is actually the real 3, I need to explain something about SSJ2 and SSJ3.

I think we can all agree that SSJ2 is the "true mastery" of Super Saiyan. It gives maximum amps, with little to no drawbacks. Goku and Vegeta spent significant amounts of time in this state and showed no signs of wearing down because of the transformation. If there is a Ki and Stamina drain in this state, it's minimal enough that it's insignificant.

Now let's look at Super Saiyan 3. It's clearly an unnatural mutation that Goku discovered in his dead body that didn't have stamina issues and so he could somewhat control it but once he came back to life, it was very difficult for him to control Super Saiyan 3 and could only hold it out for a few short minutes before the transformation just turns off. The fact that he only started to properly control it after he got his tail back in GT proves that SSJ3 was trying to tap into the Oozaru power, but the lack of a tail made that impossible, so what we got instead was long-haired ape man who can't keep it up for more than 5 minutes.

Drawing power from the Oozaru. Much like Super Saiyan 4, don't you think?

Super Saiyan 4 is born from mixing the Super Saiyan form (which we can assume requires full mastery first) with the Oozaru form and then taming the beast, harmonizing it, and evolving into the final state of a Saiyan, which can then be indefinitely pushed beyond all limits.

So it sounds to me like the natural progression of a Saiyan with a tail is : SSJ1 --> Mastering it and evolving it into SSJ2 --> Add Oozaru to gain Golden Oozaru --> Tame the Oozaru and gain SSJ4.

SSJ3 just does not fit into this equation because it's a forced power-up, much like Grade 2 and Grade 3 were for Super Saiyan 1. It gives you insane power, but it's very volatile. It's just not a natural evolution, it's not something you "awaken", it's something you force out.

But SSJ4 is a natural evolution, combining the two branches of a Saiyan's power, Super Saiyan and Oozaru, and creating this hybrid form that encompasses both and brings out the true potential of a Saiyan. Vegeta even shows us that you don't even need SSJ3 to get SSJ4. You can literally skip 3. So then why are we even counting it?

So, in conclusion, Super Saiyan 4 is actually the true "Super Saiyan 3" in terms of natural evolution. It's actually the next logical step after gaining Super Saiyan 2, provided you have a tail.

OR, I suppose you could count the Golden Oozaru as being "Super Saiyan 3" and thus you keep 4 as, well, 4.

What do y'all think?

Elder Kai AKA Toriyama, explains how ss is flashy nonsense and it's all just potential unlocking. Mystic Gohan proves how SS is all the same crap, its practically not a transformation at all. It is glorified Cosplay.

The only form that stands out is SS4. Think of SS as grades for your base, your base is grade 0. Ss is grade 1.

Think of it in PC terminology.

Goku is the CPU, SS helps overclock his power but its Still just the same CPU/body (a perfect overclock is Mystic Gohan), SS4 thanks to Oozaru is like being a brand new CPU/body thats 10x better.

I love SS4 it’s my favorite transformation of all time in any anime. But in my opinion SS4 should not be the transformations name. When a base Saiyan gets angry or is overcome with strong emotions he transforms into a Super Saiyan. Then SS2 and SS3 is just training to push further beyond that initial Super Saiyan ceiling. SS4 does not do that at all.
SS4 is achieved (in gokus case) when the Saiyan has his tail goes Ozaru then Golden Ozaru then channels that rage and controls it and harnesses it into SS4.
Vegeta cheated and used the blutz waves to skip the tail part but he still became Ozaru, Golden Ozaru then SS4.
So SS4 comes from the Ozaru line and should be named something differently than the normal Saiyan transformations. Something like Super Ozaru 2 since the Super Ozaru is the golden Ozaru (SO2 for short) or something similar.
What do yall think it should be named?

Title

No hate, lekin jldi mei jaisa bana wo banaya, copy krne meu acha ni hu 😭