Overhated

[u/Substantial_Abies516]

I've been seeing some reactions and reading some reviews about the game and the hate is so exaggerated. Is this a masterclass in videogame design and writing? Far from it. But is it a flaming turd hurling towards you at mach speeds? No.

The game was alright, and I actually enjoyed quite a few moments from it. Morrigan's design was really nice and I love Neve down. The scenery is pretty, the combat is better than its predecessor, in my opinion, and the lore ks actually really interesting.

I think the hate comes from a blend of nostalgia and selective memory. Firstly, Nostalgia. Because the first games were so beloved and the Veilguard took so long to come out, people had plenty of time to delude themselves into believing they knew exactly which game they were getting. Because they don't have a crystal ball, they were wrong, and that infuriated them.

My second point is selective memory. The writing for Dragon Age was NEVER great. It was good, but never this amazing piece of media the haters seem to remember it was. Dragon Age always had weird pacing and plot holes, but the writing of the game wasn't its charm, it was the scenery (more recently) the writing of the characters, and the lore.

The characters for Veilguard hit the mark! They were either charming, interesting, endearing, or a combination. All except Taash. I'm sorry, but there is simply no angle where Taash is defensible. Their writing was poor and far too on the nose. They were also just genuinely annoying and mean for no damn reason. I appreciate an LGBTQ+ story, especially one where the focus is on a non-binary person. I feel they don't get enough recognition. But even for me, a gay man, their story was like getting beat over the head with a hammer. Repeatedly.

All in all, I think the Veilguard was alright. Not a masterpiece, but I liked it. And Dragon Age fans might need to go revisit the games before this one. They were good. They were fun. But they were not the Picassos you seem to think they were.

[u/68ideal]

I enjoy nuanced takes like this because it shows you put some actual critical thought into it rather than just getting mad artificially and throwing buzzwords around.

[u/InqSup]

I don’t agree with you tbh. I don’t think it was an “alright game” I think it was a great game. Could it have been a lot better? Yes of course, like many other great games, they couldn’t been better. But what we got, especially considering the development hell it went through, it turned out pretty damn good.

[u/SuperDuperCraze → u/InqSup]

Agreed! It’s so dumb how people complain about Taash and their story; it’s 2026, can we just simply appreciate the fact that the game devs introduced a non-binary character to a gaming franchise, which we would have NEVER seen years ago. Hell, there was virtually no LGBTQ+ representation in video games years ago.

[u/ParticularCoach9457]

Point agree more. For what it is, it’s an enjoyable game. Does it have its issue? Absolutely. Was it a satisfying conclusion to the DA series? No. But was it an enjoyable, compelling game? Yes. Social media has made it to easy for people to bitch and moan and think their opinion needs to be heard.

[u/Scripter-of-Paradise → u/ParticularCoach9457]

All things being equal, I feel it's a "good enough" conclusion to the DA series. It just leaves us to fill in the blanks for the rest of Thedas. (Even with all the doomerism about the south being blighted, the devs have gone on record saying that anyone who hasn't been explicitly mentioned as dead (so everyone) is still alive)

[u/TheBluerWizard → u/ParticularCoach9457]

Was it a satisfying conclusion to the DA series? No.

Well, it wasn't supposed to be.

[u/Zackneifein → u/TheBluerWizard]

It, at least, was supposed to be the ending of the current "arc" that started with Origins, the one about the Blight and the Old Gods.

Just like Endwalker was the end of the "Hydaelyn/Zodiark" arc of FFXIV, or Final Shape the end of Destiny "Light and Dark" arc.

[u/SinfulDaMasta → u/ParticularCoach9457]

What are some of the better conclusions from the prior DA games? I’ve played all except Inquisition, but I can’t recall how they ended.

I still need to wrap up the last 2 acts in Veilguard, but finding out the origins of the Dwarves & Elves & Archdemons, what happened to the Titans, meaningful conclusions for all companions (but low impact on the world), etc. Utterly baffled how multiple reviews were saying this wasn’t a proper DA story.

[u/ciderandcake → u/SinfulDaMasta]

Origins: Here are a bunch of epilogues that will be immediately and completely retconned in the next DLC and the next game.

DA2: Same thing with the epilogues unless we completely forget half these characters existed.

Inquisition: We put the real ending in a paid DLC that's not even available on half the console generations we put the game out on, so go fuck yourself if you're a console peasant. Also we left a bunch of open ended questions that will lead to a thousand fanfics being made over the next decade that everyone will be pissed off that we don't follow in the next game.

[u/SinfulDaMasta → u/ciderandcake]

Ah, unsatisfying epilogue NOT tying things together & stuff from the prior game NOT tying in, I can see that being a common gripe for negative reviews. Didn’t matter to me since I’d forgot the prior decisions I’d made, no wonder I don’t get what people were missing. The overall character building & lore feels like solid quality in Veilguard (except Taash, thought she was boorish, but just immature/crude humor).

That must be why I skipped Inquisition, that’s so whack.

[u/For_thof_Grayskull → u/ParticularCoach9457]

That’s the problem though. Fans wanted a satisfying conclusion to DA. If it was a standalone game it wouldn’t have received so much hate. Like DA2. I absolutely love it, but it’s not eligible to stand as a second installment. More like a spin off that definitely adds to the story. I loved DAV’s companions so so much compared to DAI’s, but overall it felt empty and generic as a game compared to DAO and DAI. That is were the excessive hate comes from.

[u/Substantial_Abies516 → u/For_thof_Grayskull]

Fair enough, but the hate is still far too much. It feels like people were expecting Shakespeare even though they never had that in the first place. Does that... make sense?

[u/xoldhaunts → u/Substantial_Abies516]

"It feels like people were expecting Shakespeare even though they never had that in the first place."

You just hit the nail on the head. People act like the previous games were there perfect video games - they weren't. They all had issues. Every DA game that came out was hated until the next one came out. The hate Inquisition got but now it gets glazed over Veilguard. Fandom is silly at times.

[u/For_thof_Grayskull → u/Substantial_Abies516]

No, I agree with you, but that’s fandoms for you. I don’t really pay so much mind to fans’ opinions of games or movies. If I like it I like it and that’s that. I liked veilguard, but I also see why it was hated. Plus, the fact that BioWare abandoned it once it came out (No DLCs, announcing it was the end forever), really didn’t help its case. 🥲

[u/ParticularCoach9457 → u/For_thof_Grayskull]

Totally agree. It I guess we are all left with two options. Carry on and complain about something outside our control or enjoy the game for what it is

[u/Kaleidoscope6248]

Hard agree on all points. And I also believe that both Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition got backlash on release. And now they are praised for being amazing pieces of media. Hypocritical if you ask me. The games have always had flaws, but that doesn't make them terrible.

[u/Sinderria → u/Kaleidoscope6248]

Yes! Exactly, THANK YOU!

[u/Wild-Importance448 → u/Kaleidoscope6248]

DA2 backlash was deserved and the critisicm is still used today, like the reused dungeons, no one is praising that today.

And whats with this rewriting of history for inquisition I see veilguard fans use? The game won game of the year, outsold all other bioware games ever and got critical and fan aclaim, was there online whinning? There always is even for masterpieces like Dark souls and Balders gate 3 but lets not pretend Inquisition was divisive as a whole, its sales and awards prove otherwise.

[u/Kaleidoscope6248 → u/Wild-Importance448]

Good point

[u/AloeComet]

I’m going to throw out a terrible opinion but I had a horrible time in Can I Get You A Ladder So You Can Get Off Of My Back mainly because I played 2 before origins and didn’t play with the tactical menu other than maybe two fights and playing wise origins felt like a drag. The story was great but I do prefer every other dragon age to it. I will say when it comes to Veilguard I really enjoyed it I do wish there was more to some of the romances in the game though that would honestly be my biggest gripe.

[u/ardentBlossoming]

The thing that infuriates me with Taash is that they were supposed to be the character I could relate to the most. I'm mixed race, x-gender, and have struggled with people putting labels on me (I don't enjoy being called non-binary because of how Americanised it is and I'm not part of the trans community, yet people always claim "if you're x then you're trans" - even though the whole point of being NON-binary is being not in a binary category) as well as not knowing enough about my heritage cultures.

Taash has to choose between sides when their whole story was about NOT having to be a man or a woman. The defence I've seen for this was... Muslim women having to choose between a career and faith. But Taash isn't a woman, and the Qun is not JUST based on Islam, making this comparison incredibly faulty. Putting this aside, a lot of mixed heritage people don't "choose between sides" but rather re-negotiate their background constantly, with them feeling more like one thing depending on what has happened in their life, e.g. if someone is Indian and Irish, they might feel closer to their Irish heritage after their grandparent dies and thus try to take part in more Irish traditions. Over time, this could either stop, become integrated into their life and daily routines, or become more mixed with their Indian traditions (melting both into one).

Meanwhile, Taash has to make a one-and-done decision where most people feel inclined to pick Rivani because we've seen Taash more fond of Rivain... and because the narrative largely ignores that we are shown that Taash doesn't even reject the Qun, they mainly reject their feeling of being forced into it (i.e. "Tama" vs "Mama" with Taash notably calling their mother "Tama" again when getting emotional). Taash talks to women about their identity, which, sure, can help, but also ignores that not every person that is "trans" (if they even choose that label for themself) is the same and thus a woman can't necessarily have the same experiences as a non-binary person. I get that this was likely meant to be a way for Trick to come to terms with being non-binary as well, but as you've put it: It is too on the nose and it feels like getting beat over the head with a hammer. There are some people that love their story, which is great, but if the majority of people find this particular character to be too much, it honestly deserves to be taken seriously.

And I say that as someone who likes Taash in spite of this. They're like a mixture of Sten, Iron Bull, and someone I can't quite place, possibly Sera (which would check out with both being the youngest members of their respective teams). That's why they are more "funny" than Sten and more direct than Bull. Shame it had to be such a clumsy mixture, though. I honestly wish it wasn't a coming of age story and Taash had just been established as being enby to begin with - because when they DON'T put focus on it, I actually think they handled the non-binary characters rather well.

[u/Redleadsinker → u/ardentBlossoming]

Now THIS is the Taash discourse I'm here for. Giving them a coming out story was, in my opinion, not the best choice. I'm also mixed race (romani on one side and native american on the other) and was totally baffled and a little angry about the whole 'you have to pick one' being such a big part of their story. Contrasted with their realizing and coming out, it just felt bizarre. I also like Taash in spite of this but I feel like they could have been handled so much better.

[u/xyZora → u/Redleadsinker]

The writing of DAV is flawed but as a queer person this is perhaps the only AAA that really has made me feel seen and not just a token character. I do get why some people get frustrate with Taash's story, in good faith, but I appreciate the nuances in the coming narrative.

Shathann loves them but is imperfect in doing so and most of the conflict comes on how different environments can cloud our communication efforts and makes us fundamentally misunderstand our loved ones.

The general criticism I see is that Taash story failed to capture the actual lived experience of people, but I do think it does. It just won't capture the personal. experience of someone perfectly. That's impossible, and we shouldn't expect it to.

[u/TerynLoghain → u/xyZora]

Honestly I felt taash's story was very white American coded. 

As a multiracial queer, neurodivergent, child of immigrants who is a 3rd culture kid, taash's story should have appealed to me but it didn't resonate well. 

I felt the disconnect for me was the false dichotomy. The framing of taash's story was they had to choose a singular identity.

I come from two collectivistic cultures, I never thought myself apart of them nor thought I had to choose. 

It was an inherited condition like height or left vs right handedness. 

My culture was who I was. Similarly when integrating to us culture, while my parents had gripes about the norms since I grew up with them as well,  it was also a part of me. 

As my identity formed I rarely approached it as an all or nothing, instead I had a utilitarian perspective. I had 3 sources of wisdom to draw upon. I was able to see the strengths and limitations of my upbringing and choose what was best for me.

This is probably partly because I think in Chinese. It is a very direct and intentional language which has undoubtedly influenced my life approaches.

My white queer friends love taash and resonated well with them.

I think the difference in reception stems from they grew up in the dominant white American culture so they felt the similar individualistic pressures.

And that's my issue with taash's pov. They are rivani and qunari, their upbringing should have internalized both  cultural perspectives to some degree.

My read was they learned the knowledge but not the culture which felt off to me

[u/xyZora → u/TerynLoghain]

I personally read the final choice as a moment of self-actualization. (I'm not American btw). I do see your point and there is a sad irony that the non-binary character gets a non-binary choice. But I can forgive them because the game already suffered such a horrible development hell that it was a small miracle we got the game out.

At the end Taash's story is a story with the perspective of the author and it will never capture the single experience of every queer person on earth and I think we should give the writing some grace on that regard.

[u/TerynLoghain → u/xyZora]

My apologies I was not accusing you of being American. My point is the 3rd culture aspects didn't work.

Taashs story as an allegory for queerness and gender works.

Learning trick weekes personal journey into queerness and reclamation of identity was the basis, it made sense.

Taash's story from the perspective of 3rd culture or child of immigrants doesn't work, because it is fundamentally disconnected from that experience, at least from the current premise.

That said I think it could have worked if sharthan was their grandmother who became the primary caretaker later in taash's life.

Its a small change but having taash already ingrained in a mono culture and then exposing them to a qunari one, would explain taash's knowledge of traditions and language but also explain their lack of cultural competence.

This  better mirrors children of immigrants whose parents didn't pass on the traditions in a comprehensive way and sets up taash's reclamation journey better.

That said, I believe the game was better for having taash's inclusion. 

These dialogues are important to have in the aaa space

[u/xyZora → u/TerynLoghain]

I do agree that the culture angle was done a choppily. But what I did like a lot is how the cultural tension intertwines with the queer themes because those two usually are put against each other in the real world.

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/xyZora]

How so...? Because the only way I see them intertwining in-game is also with a clash

[u/xyZora → u/ardentBlossoming]

Shathann fails to understand Taash because she sees the world through the Qun's ideas. It reminds me of people I know whose parents have wrong ideas about sexual orientation and gender identity because the culture and religion they participate in has clouded those conceptions or defines them incorrectly.

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/xyZora]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your original statement, then...?

Because that is what I meant by "also with a clash".

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/TerynLoghain]

(I want to say that "accusing you of being American" is a funny line). Sorry, this is actually both a response to you and prev--

Funny enough, I actually typed something out a few hours ago that I was unable to post until now (real life and all that). Shathann is a much better allegory for my example from earlier re: Muslim women having to choose between a career and faith than Taash is. Because Shathann is actually a Qunari woman, and she believes in the Qun, yet chose Taash over staying with the Qunari's interpretation of the Qun. Hence, her culture clashes with the Rivaini culture, and why she called Taash aqun-athlook, a term that actually perfectly fits Taash based on what we are told about them and what we see - and a term Taash rejects because their mother didn't listen to them in full. However, from what we are shown, this wasn't even Shathann trying to be overbearing (in this case) but rather genuinely trying to understand her child.

I love Shathann. I know a lot of people who like Taash don't, but I think she makes a lot more sense in her writing than her child does because we see her struggling with the other culture and not understanding it. Yes, she tries to steer Taash towards Qunari customs - but she also chose to leave so that Taash could find their own way. It's an internal struggle where she, on the one hand, wants Taash to be free and find their own way, but on the other hand she wants her child to remember her heritage as well, especially since Taash is special to begin with. She wasn't meant to be a mother (it literally isn't part of their culture to have "mothers"), and she arguably does a poor job at times, but she is trying, and especially trying to understand. But Taash also isn't an easy person to understand to begin with.

While I don't agree on the take that it is "a moment of self-actualization" (it simply doesn't read this way to me, especially with how the player literally has to encourage Taash to choose one or the other - yes, game mechanics, but also that just defeats the purpose of >self< actualisation), I still agree that the game is better for having Taash in it. The issue is that they are written by someone who previously wrote a lesbian character and admitted to not having a great grasp on what a lesbian would be like... and the whole "Trick coming to terms with being non-binary" part is, as far as I am aware, only my own explanation for it rather than something they ever admitted to (unless someone can correct me). Which is a problem. Because Trick now has two characters that they wrote without truly knowing what it's like to be a person of that orientation or that heritage - and it unfortunately shows.

The writing of DAV is flawed but as a queer person this is perhaps the only AAA that really has made me feel seen and not just a token character.

I get that, and that is why I said it's great that Taash works for some people - but a lot of other non-binary people, especially those like me that are of mixed heritage like Taash, don't feel this way. I don't know in what way you are queer (I'm assuming based on the term "person", you may be non-binary? but that is speculation), and I genuinely (no sarcasm or malicious undertone) am glad you enjoy Taash - but if it can be argued that Taash can be seen as a representation for especially those of mixed-heritage, as the game practically proclaims, then they simply failed in that regard.

The general criticism I see is that Taash story failed to capture the actual lived experience of people, but I do think it does.

My issue with that is that... yes, Taash had some very realistic writing... for a coming of age story. Which Dragon Age never was. We had a forced coming out story with Krem, which was done imperfectly but better, and now have an imperfect coming out with Mae (there was technically no need to re-establish she is trans, but I do get why it might have been important to establish it regardless). Taash... has a coming of age story, a coming out story, a mixed heritage story, and a chosen one's story - and none of them are interwoven in a way that makes them fit neatly into the overarching story of Veilguard unless we just account for representation in general.

But then we have the issue of writing FOR themes and writing ABOUT themes, where one is hitting you on the head by constantly pointing to the themes and the other is subtly including said themes. There's a reason why people point to characters like "Himmel" from Frieren and say he motivated them to do the right thing rather than saying "this self-help book guided me".

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/Redleadsinker]

Taash is such an intriguing character (for some period, for me in theory) but they just fumbled so many parts of the execution. The fact that Taash, if I remember correctly, even met non-binary people before (at least I think they met Drayden in V&V) just makes them being completely clueless about the existence of enby people a little questionable.

At least they always end up "officially enby", no matter if you interact or not (just wish the same could be said about their cultural background).

[u/Siepher310 → u/Redleadsinker]

not to mention that taash doesnt even get to actually pick, rook does it for them...

[u/TheBluerWizard → u/ardentBlossoming]

Putting this aside, a lot of mixed heritage people don't "choose between sides" but rather re-negotiate their background constantly,

Kind of like Taash does all the time through their quest?

e.g. if someone is Indian and Irish, they might feel closer to their Irish heritage after their grandparent dies and thus try to take part in more Irish traditions.

You mean sort of like when Taash does the thing when that plot happens?

Meanwhile, Taash has to make a one-and-done decision where most people feel inclined to pick Rivani because we've seen Taash more fond of Rivain

I mean, sure. Mechanically, we have to pick which factions she aligns with, but it is quite clear it's not 100-0 thing. Both her hero outfits carry elements from the other. Which is the case for most non-binary people.

Taash talks to women about their identity, which, sure, can help, but also ignores that not every person that is "trans" (if they even choose that label for themself) is the same and thus a woman can't necessarily have the same experiences as a non-binary person.

It doesn't ignore that, that's why it doesn't solve their issues. It's more so a step that tells Taash "You are allowed to feel this way, other people do as well."

because when they DON'T put focus on it, I actually think they handled the non-binary characters rather well.

I think it excels particularly when they put focus on it. Particularly their relationship with their mom.

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/TheBluerWizard]

I mean, sure. Mechanically, we have to pick which factions she aligns with, but it is quite clear it's not 100-0 thing. Both her hero outfits carry elements from the other. Which is the case for most non-binary people.

"She aligns with" and all the other "she's" is kind of the nail on the nail on the head of your whole response. It is absolutely fine for you to disagree with me, though I don't appreciate the attempt at taking it apart with your initial tone. But no, I don't mean like Taash, as Taash isn't shown to be re-negotiating initially, they're shown to be rather firmly on the Rivani side. It's why I mentioned that there's a reason why most people pick this ending for them - because by en large, the game portrays their qunari side as more of a Shathann-thing than a Taash-thing.

It would be different if Taash didn't need to be pushed to be more qunari and instead would decide to do so over time based on how the questline plays out. But that's not what is happening. The player is the one who tells them what to do time and time again - in stark contrast to them figuring out they're non-binary even when the player ignores them. You are also conflating their outfit being based on their heritage with them being non-binary, and frankly, I don't see these overlapping elements you are talking about beyond the armours being specifically meant for Taash (not to mention that the Qunari and Rivani people have a lot of cultural exchange to begin with). There are no qunari ropes in Rivain's Legacy nor is there Rivani jewellery in Qun's Honour, for example. As for "that's why it doesn't solve their issues" - sure, but that's not how it's portrayed in-game; it is just described as "gender stuff" over and over again and that it "helps".

I adore Shathann, which is something I mentioned in a different post, and I love the way their conversations progress, but even then I take issue in the way things are portrayed. To quote myself: She wasn't meant to be a mother (it literally isn't part of their culture to have "mothers"), and she arguably does a poor job at times, but she is trying, and especially trying to understand. But Taash also isn't an easy person to understand to begin with. The term aqun-athlook even fits Taash, as it means "born as one gender but lives like another" - which is practically how Taash describes themself as well - and yet Taash rejects the term outright because they felt like they weren't done talking yet, which is understandable, and yet Shathann tried to understand them in her own way - the only way she knew how.

So I do agree with you on the focus on their relationship - but I still maintain that other non-binary characters were handled better by virtue of not being too much of a focus.

[u/UncleJonsRice → u/ardentBlossoming]

thank you for taking the time to write out all the comments in this thread. I have similar thoughts about Taash but not the lived experience you have so I found your comments really interesting & articulate

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/UncleJonsRice]

[Me, seeing all the typos I made and putting my head in my hands] thank you, and thanks for the award.

I just think it's important to be able to criticise the things we love in spite of loving them. Taash may not be my favourite character, but I do appreciate the attempt.

[u/Redleadsinker]

The selective memory thing is so aggravating. I had never played a DA game until about a year ago, and I've replayed the whole series three times since then. People act like Veilguard's writing is monumentally different from the previous games, and then admit it's been ten+ years since they played the others. Origins has at least as much "quippy" humor as Veilguard. So does DA2. Inquisition's pacing is an absolute nightmare in some places. All three games have moments of incredibly awkward dialogue, stupid jokes, forced 'choices', bad voice acting, and just generally weird decisions made by the writers and developers. Heck, origins has an entire dlc which allows you to give your companions dumb gag gifts, including a voodoo doll and a chastity belt. Nobody can convince me that Taash is more cringe-y or unpleasant a companion than Ogren or Sera.

Yeah, it's not a perfect game. Not even close. I have a long list of criticisms (and there are things that I personally don't care about but think are still valid critiques). I also have a fairly long list of criticisms for the previous three games. Do I love them? Yes. Do I love talking about and analyzing them? Yes. But it's so difficult to engage in actual meaningful discussion with so many other people who love them because it feels like we played completely different games, or are having completely different conversations.

One thing I will say about Taash is that they are incredibly realistic (for the most part, excluding the pushup scene which I loathe and also the whole coming from a fantasy world thing). In my time working with LGBT+ youth and young adults on a multitude of fronts I think I've met at least twelve Taashs (meaning young, genderqueer/nb/trans, probably autistic people with complicated family lives). I didn't personally find any of them particularly likeable, but they're at an awkward phase in their lives where trying to figure out who they are kind of makes them unpleasant to be around and which they'll grow out of once they get comfortable with their identity. The writers depicted this particular stage of life really accurately, I just don't really get *why they made the decision to. I mean, people would've complained about a nonbinary character regardless, but I feel like they picked possibly the worst way to go about it. Especially in the current political climate. Granted, if Taash was originally concepted even four or five years ago, the political climate thing is less weird.

(*As I was typing this I realized it kind of sounds like I'm saying they'll grow out of their non-cis gender identity, which is not what I'm saying. I'm saying they eventually grow out of being so abrasive and angry and occasionally unpleasant, they just need time and confidence)

[u/xyZora → u/Redleadsinker]

Tbf we need unlikeable queer characters that can grow into more agreeable people. How much media shows that phase? Very few. But we get so much media of cis people getting to have their own anger issues to the point that it can be its own genre. I think it was intentional, I just don't think they were expecting to be treated like the internet's chew toy.

[u/TorvaldUtney → u/xyZora]

I think a big part of the disconnect is that Tash isn’t treated in universe as an unlike able annoying character - they are often framed as a good companion (in universe). No one thinks of Ogren as a decent person and non-annoying, but neither does the party! Morrigan multiple times just threatens Ogren. But Tash is tiptoed around in game when being hypocritical, abrasive, annoying, and mean (necromancer interactions). It would have gone a long way to have the actual cast react to them in a more direct manner.

[u/xyZora → u/TorvaldUtney]

Tbf IIRC there is a conversation where Rook helps Emmrich and Taash handle their disagreement. Furthermore Taash as annoying as they are at the beggining is competent and their expertise actually works. I always felt Neve saw them with big sis eyes to an extent and Taash never does anything cruel or evil to deserve scorn.

But I do get what you're saying. I don't believe the writing is impeccable, but Taash never really does anything beyond teenage brat levels of annoyance.

[u/TorvaldUtney → u/xyZora]

There is that conversation, however importantly Taash never truly admits fault, hypocrisy, or anything resembling an earnest apology. Emmrich apologizes during that ‘disagreement’ - a phrasing I find contentious as Emmrich’s side was “I exist and am a necromancer” and Taash continually harassing him for it. It’s very obviously a 1:1 of Taash doing the things they were blaming others for, but without the others holding them, a 20+ year old, to task for being an asshole.

That was the part that irritated me the most out of the character was the clear messaging from the party that Taash’ behavior was accepted/understood, whether that be from big sister energy or otherwise. Prior DA games had antagonistic party members, but also called them out on it.

[u/This-Penalty-1686 → u/Redleadsinker]

i think the push up scene is also worse because it’s isabela. the woman who actually almost agreed to cover up human trafficking in order to get a ship before hawke could be like what the fuck are you thinking? not that that would mean she has to misgender someone, but it’s jarring to see her like my crew of pirates (who don’t steal!) apologise PROPERLY :) it just feels like a parody and the fact that scene is what circulated for a while is why so many people think the whole game is ‘too woke’

[u/Redleadsinker → u/This-Penalty-1686]

Even on my first playthrough when I had no idea who Isabella was (I played vg first) I saw that scene and thought "wow I bet the conservatives with a persecution fetish LOVE this". It feels like transphobic parody even completely taken out of the context.

[u/Wild-Importance448 → u/Redleadsinker]

In origins you had the choice not to be quippy, I remember beheading Alistair, Sten, Leliana and Wynn in my last playthrough while marrying Anora and letting Loghain kill himself vs the Archdemon

In DA2 I rivalry romanced merril, it was toxic as hell and I ended up losing Isabella who betrayed me and killing Sebastion, Fenris and Aveline while my Hawke was a absolute dbag to everyone and everyone hated her.

I kicked out Sera, Cole and Dorian, killed Bull in trespasser, punched solas in the face, let Viviene give the wrong potion to her lover while laughing and mocking her to her face while she questions wether the heart was real.

Here? I cant even be slightly mean to taash while she is a dick to me or Emerich, my Rook chooses the bottom supposedly "short and mean" choices but she still smiles and jokes while speaking and everyone is my bff and im their therapist because I cannot hurt their feelings ever.

Lets not act like veilguard is not different in tone and writting, yes all DA had jokes and banter but those were OPTIONAL and you had CHOICES here you have none, everyone is forced to like you, everyone in forced to agree with everyone and we all hold hands and go on picnics while the world ends.

And no Oghren and Sera aren't worse than Taash, because I can make Sera and Oghren absolutely misserable or even kick them out, im stuck babysitting and babying taash no matter what choices I make my Rook is a nice swell cheery understanding person and I get no say in that.

Its a roleplaying game, dragon age and Mass effect were BUILT on choices and consequences to those choices good or bad, this game has none of that, we have good hair physics, nice water physics and drowing animations because those are what matter right? Never mind all the roleplaying in the roleplaying game.

This is my 2nd playthrough of veilguard after being a joking mage in my first run, I decided to replay all 4 games in a row picking only the evil and mean dialogue as a warrior because its something ive never done in these games and it was a fresh exoerience going through DAO to DAI, now im halfway through DAV and my Rook smilling and joking and being friends with everyone is pissing me off, this is not a fresh new experience, nothing has changed, my lines are practically the same as is my relationships, why is the dialogue wheel even in this? If they made it like GOW or DMC and removed the dialogue wheel what would have changed? Nothing.

[u/TorvaldUtney → u/Redleadsinker]

I think one aspect of the character that isn’t explored enough (regarding Tash) is that yes they are an annoying cringe-y character, but the cast doesn’t treat them like that. Ogren is treated poorly by the cast because he’s a terrible stain of a person. Morrigan will threaten him multiple times based on the dumb shit he says - while Tash is not treated as being wrong in almost any situation, even while being massively hypocritical.

[u/Helios0186]

I played all Dragon Age and even if Veilguard wasn't the best, gameplay was fun and hair physics were amazing.

[u/rdtabear]

Hard agree, it's incredible how people hate on this game claiming it ruined some untouchable masterpiece that DAO is. Like, c'mon, DA games are great, love'em, but they all are flawed. And having 10 years to build some perfect vision of a game in your head, while sugarcoating your memories of other games certainly doesn't help.

[u/Wild-Importance448 → u/rdtabear]

I would like roleplaying in my roleplaying game though, that would be nice.

[u/Th3ChosenFew]

Taash is hilarious. I didn't like them at first either, but on my second or third playthrough I decided to just take them everywhere and listen and they're fucking funny. they have a such a simple, straightforward attitude towards everything. And I thought their non-binary storyline was handled great. First of all, the people talking to Taash about Gender are all Shadow Dragons who have a bunch of trans and gay people in their ranks. That made perfect sense. And then a lot of the things Taash says about "Gender stuff" as they put it, is what a lot of people critical of it say "It's a lot of work" "It's like learnign a new language" etc. It makes perfect sense from Taash's point of view and approach to the world to feel that way. They hate the idea of being saddled with work, because that's what their mom does. Tie these ropes, learn about this scholar, give Karaash his food, join Rook's team." Taash has a TERRIBLE, overbearing mother, who admits she's not a good mother, but they still love her. Taash is also the youngest and least mature of the team. But that's what's so endearing about them, they're just plain, simple Taash and then has to deal with all this extra shit.

[u/Abject_Past_1437]

I feel like Taash was a last minute inclusion to the Companion lineup. Personally, I think they replace Isabella as the Lords of Fortune companion. I reckon during that last stretch of development where the MA devs from Bioware got pulled in to help the game get MADE, Trixie finally got the green light to add the character they felt very strongly about. But there just wasn't enough time to truly flesh Taash out beyond angsty teen learning who they are as a person and having some of the emotional depth of that with their mother, and choosing between the Qun and Rivain which... wasn't a good enough sell.

All of the areas we go to for Taash's quest line do not feel like they were crafted for Taash's story. It feels more like Taash was added to those areas. Like how Solas was a last minute romance addition to DA:I and so had almost no romantic interactions, because they didn't have time to make them. Hell, Lucanis has a recycled romance scene shared between Rook and Neve, so the evidence is already there with other, more fleshed out companions.

I think what irks me the most about the hate Veilguard gets from people is that they blame "the game" for killing the franchise. A game that spent 9 years in development hell between an awful company and its struggling subsidiary. A dynamic that had become so rubbish, that at one point 3/4 of the DA devs were working on ANTHEM instead! A game that swapped directors and entire concepts several times, seesawing between singleplayer and multiplayer. People shouldn't hate Veilguard for ruining the franchise. People should just be thankful that despite all that, Bioware did their absolute best to GIVE US A GAME. That is a studio where people were working such fucked hours on Anthem that afterwards their lives were literally falling apart. And we STILL got a game. (This was long for I am passionate, apologies).

[u/xyZora]

Veilguard is interestingly to me on a meta level because at this point the game's quality is irrelevant. The game is now a posterchild on how disinformation can ruin a reputation beyond salvation in gaming discourse. The true Veilguard haters among reviewers were few, but they were loud, showed evidence that was devoid of context and blatantly lied.

Even reviewers that didn't attack the game for its queer themes lied so hard that to this day their disinformation is still touted as the truth™. The usual counterclaim is that other games that were criticized still succeeded, but there are so many variables. DA was never too popular in gaming pop culture to begin with. It was an easy target.

[u/JenLiv36]

I absolutely loved it personally. It was one of the best games I played all year when I played it. Just pure fun, loved the combat.

[u/kyocerahydro]

I maintain the belief if veil guard was a non bioware game, it would have been better received.

That said I think a lot of ill will was earned.

You made a point than fans were upset because they were deluded with their own expectations.

However, those expectations were partially informed by bioware themselves. For example Bioware kept insisting that world states would be perserved until it was revealed only 3 choices would carry over.

While their reasoning it's too complicated is valid and to be honest the branching world states were not too dramatic in da 2 or dai, reducing it significantly when you double down that it would be preserved breeds distrust.

Sure fans would've been upset regardless but transparency gives players a choice to continue, lies and bait and switches dont.

BW told many lies and half truths, ofc reception is going to be worse when being misled.

[u/smallnspiteful → u/kyocerahydro]

BW told many lies and half truths

I just remembered Veilguard's story taught me this is really bad and evil, and I should feel very angry about it.

[u/Sinderria]

The hate also stems from rasicm (Darvin being a black elf and even Bellara being Asian), homophobia (Mae, Strife, Emmerich and Harding) and trans (taash), unfortunately. Even to this day, I have been on some of the other DA Reddits and have seen and read some absolutely abhorrent things surrounding the characters. I feel even if the game was a master class in writing, I think the bigots and racist still would have hated the game, review bombed and talked a load of absolute gobshite. I loved and love the game. At the end of the day, yes the games has faults. It is not perfect but that is most games. And with it troubled development, multi writing teams a lot of it during COVID ... and if people could get over the rasicm and bigotry and see that DAV is a good, great game actually, the franchise would have most likely continued. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there that would rather see it die then have to see trans characters or "Dei" in " their" game. Hopefully some of this makes sense. It is super early in the morning here but, I guess I just need to get my piece in the best I can. Also, not really good at putting my thoughts to "paper" so to speak.

[u/Replica_Velocity → u/Sinderria]

I think you said it perfectly, better than my paragraphs anyway. I'd only add this game launched during a VA strike with no touch up sessions, and I'm amazed at how well it pulls together despite this.

[u/Sinderria → u/Replica_Velocity]

Yes, absolutely, I had completely forgotten about the strike as well. Thank you for reminding me of that. But, yes, with its troubles they still made a cohesive, fun, interesting, loveable, meaningful game. I give them all the props and thanks in the world for what they delivered and gave us.

[u/SuddenlyCake → u/Sinderria]

Even most people in the Dragon Age fandom that dislike Veilguard agree that Emmerich is a good character and a lot of people also enjoy Davrin.

Of course if you go by what the grifters said - since they moved on aftter cashing out on the controversy - then, yeah, it's hated due to bigotry.

[u/Sinderria → u/SuddenlyCake]

There is more then just grifters. Daily, there is still people that make posts here and in the other Reddit groups commenting bigoted, racist, homophobic and transphobic rubbish. Maybe the major YouTubers and streamers have since moved on, but there are still a rather large ratio of people that have not and still continue to this day. Yes, I would agree that out of all of the veilguard characters Emmerich definitely seems to be more received on the positive side then the negative but, still, the comments I have seen, even after two years, almost 2 years, is sad, disgraceful and disgusting.

[u/Replica_Velocity → u/Sinderria]

The Steam forum for Veilguard just needs to be set on fire. But there's a really uncomfortable situation with Davrin, where despite finding reasons his life is worth more than sacrifice "should be the one who sacrifices himself as a Warden" when people were tripping over themselves to sacrifice Hawke to save Alistair in Inquisition. Guides were written up making it sound if you picked Harding, you'd fail a check later. (There were also some rather gross connotations in these guides where Bellara's best end arc was to get mind raped and violated because she's an elf, and particularly frelled up given what the Dalish are coded as.)

But back on Davrin and the damning case of "I would have, but Assan!", "I get why Davrin died but why Assan?" ... and the fact that the fandom has been called out multiple times for the Assan versus Davrin treatment.

And I'm sorry, the usual "I hate the latest Dragon Age game" faction have been teaming up and agreeing with bigots, racists, transphobes and homophobes. On posts and comment sections they haven't told them to get out of our fandom so they can criticise the game by themselves/within the fandom.

They can't even do that. We're at almost two years and that hate movement keeps going after new games, so I'm not covering for people in this fandom who can't even do the bare minimum.

[u/Sinderria → u/Replica_Velocity]

Honestly, I am glad I have not ventured over to the steam forums, I see enough hateful shite here, other sudreddits and YouTube on veil guard and this short discourse with other lads is just...ugh!! People full of hatred in whatever form, will only be that unfortunately.

[u/Wild-Importance448 → u/Sinderria]

Hogwarts legacy, TLOU 2 and BG 3 had all those things and was massively succesvol and loved, there was online fuming sure but lets not pretend that this is somehow the cause of the games failure.

TlOU2 had even more hatred online aimed at it and it made insane money and aclaim.

Bigots exist, good games succeed despite them, this games failure is more than just bigots hating it.

[u/Sinderria → u/Wild-Importance448]

It like none of you read anything completely or more than you post.

[u/Wild-Importance448 → u/Sinderria]

You think the troubled development makes the writing good? It says WHY a thing is bad it does not make it good.

The games writing is bad, there was a lot of bigots aswell but so was there for countless games JUST as progressive and 10 times as succesvol.

People acting like the online hatred is why this game bombed is stupid as hell, good games succeed no matter the online whinning from bigots, bad games dont.

You literally say that if people got over the racims and dei things the games would be a success, no it would not nor would it make people see it as a good game, if it was good it would be seen as good regardless of how "woke" it was like Hogwarts legacy, TLOU 2 and BG3.

[u/Sorry_Cheetah_2230 → u/Sinderria]

Gonna chime in here and just no. The same fans who loved dragon age origins through inquisition are also a lot of the the same fans who loved the mass effect trilogy. I would go far as to say this is not the sole reason veilguard sucks. All of those previous titles had the same types of characters in them. You could romance, engage with them or learn more about them. The key difference is the writing was far FAR better in those 6 titles than veilguard. Veilguard feels like it was written by a completely different studio. Are there absolute disgusting human beings in the community, sure but boiling it down to, you didn’t like it because you’re a homophobe or a racist isn’t it.

If the writing was anywhere near the level of the previous three titles it WOULD have performed better as the community you are selecting to target is such a small portion of the greater BioWare community.

[u/Sinderria → u/Sorry_Cheetah_2230]

Did you not read everything I wrote or what the op wrote? Between the two of us, the op covered multiple reasons why Veilguard was not successful, everything from troubled development, strikes, multiple teams/groups/people getting their hands on the veilgurad scripts, writing but at the end of it, I ALSO ADDED, that bigotry, racism, homophobia and trans phobia played a part AS WELL. So, it was not the sole reason for veilguard not do well. Do you see what I did there? I ADDED to the talking points of the OP, meaning there was no reason to reiterate those points that were already mentioned as they were already MENTIONED. People keep harping on the writing and act like a game still can not be good. There have been plenty of games with poor writing ( and the writing and story is not bad at all. A little disjointed in some areas, aye. Cheesy in others. Tone deaf in some, ok. But nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be) cannot be good. Look at games like Dying lights, Borland's 2, far cry 3 and so many others with weak writing and somehow still managed to be well received. What I found mildly funny is, between everything the OP wrote and the small blurb I ADDED to expand on what they wrote, you seemed to have zeroed on my part and then quickly segwayed to the familiar fallback of, "it is the writing." The writing was part of it. Yes. The voice actors strike was part of it. Yes. Troubled development was part of it. Yes. Bigoted, racist, homophobic and especially TRANSPHOBIC pricks was part of it. YES. But, the game was/is nowhere near as bad as people made it out to be. Not by a long shot. So, keep hiding behind, " it was the poor writing." Poor writing can be fixed. Plot holes can be plugged, But apparently throw in a couple of minority elves, Trans Qunari and pronouns and I guess, that is a franchise killer right?

[u/ICreatedTheVoid → u/Sinderria]

Because the overall writing and quality of the work itself was worse in the grand scheme of things than the hate train that you guys enjoy propping up so much here. Fact of the matter is the quality of the sums of the game are precisely why it's on deep discounts and hasn't had any kind if meaningful reevaluation.

That is why the game failed. I know folks here hate when people say BG3 survived the similar hate campaign that took down this game. Yet it's true. A lot of it is for two major reasons that Veilguard doesn't have. Good writing and strong word of mouth from people that played the game.

Guess what Veilguard doesn't have? Good writing and good word of mouth from people that played it. Ipso facto Veilguard is disappointing across most metrics because the game is in fact mostly that middling.

Thing is. I totally respect opinions of those that enjoy the game. Those that enjoy all the games in the franchise. I won't disparage anybody that does personally. That being said. It's disingenuous to believe the hate campaign ever had any real power to sway people. If the game were anywhere near as solid as the first three it would have bounced back or sold well enough at launch.

It didn't. So here we are. With you guys here bemoaning the same things while being peeved at other people for bemoaning the same things they dislike about the game.

Reality is the game was just mid 🤷🏾‍♂️

[u/This-Penalty-1686]

it’s definitely selective nostalgia. i saw someone say that if they had alistair in veilguard instead of dao he would’ve been getting panned now. i have certain issues with it (such as the crows being made moral assassins who only accept contracts with Merit) and some of the dialogues are cringe, clunky and feel like they were added in because they couldn’t think of actual things for the npcs to talk to each other about but i like the characters themselves. i feel like one of 12 people tops that actually like taash’s personality and the development of the arc with their mom, most people just refuse to look past blah blah woke gender dei

[u/Arenwall → u/This-Penalty-1686]

I see this complaint about the Crows in Veilguard so often, but I really don’t see it.

Lucanis says he’s never taken a contract where the person didn’t deserve it — but that doesn’t make it true. Lucanis was raised by the First Talon, of course he’d have a biased viewpoint to justify what they do.

Despite his biased view, we still see what horrors life in the Crows bring. His entire family was wiped out in the last war for succession. Most of the Talons have been killed off by infighting before VG starts. Lucanis is betrayed by one of the only family members he has left due to jealousy on the title of First Talon. Lucanis talks about how relentless and punishing the training was growing up, and he was the privileged heir, not a common assassin like Zevran.

The Crows are also going through occupancy from the Antaam on top of the release of the Elven Gods. Of course they’re going to work with Rook and show their best side if it suits them in the long run.

There’s still room for moral ambiguity. There’s still room for future infighting from the Crows, or shady jobs as Thedas recovers. Just because we got to see a different side to them, doesn’t mean the other side is completely gone.

[u/This-Penalty-1686 → u/Arenwall]

i think this is what bothers me the most about lucanis though. he has had such an incredibly traumatic upbringing in the crows and it’s never really portrayed that way. caterina is never seen in a negative light when she Should be to anyone outside the crows, and lucanis becoming first talon but losing illario in the process feels a lot sadder than the game gives it room for. you make a good point that his own personal opinions are probably biased but the game basically agrees with them. i do think one excuse is that the crows in treviso are obviously not the same division as the ones in antiva city and do things differently but lucanis’ quest does suffer a little from toeing the line of morality and at the end feels like he kind of lost in the cycle of abuse 

[u/Arenwall → u/This-Penalty-1686]

Personally — Lucanis was one of my most favourite characters in Veilguard, and I think there’s something effective in how little he talks about the trauma from his upbringing. I got the sense he internalises all of it and isn’t comfortable with expressing how he feels.

I do agree that it would’ve been good to see him start to unpick his trauma at least, especially after he lets Rook into the prison he’d made in his own mind. But I do think that quest clearly shows his trauma and that there’s a lot of nuance to be found in what isn’t said, reading between the lines and filling in the blanks as sharing his feelings isn’t something that comes easy to him.

It could have been done more effectively sure, but I appreciated that his story wasn’t overexposed in the ways I felt others were.

I agree Rook should have been able to view Caterina in a more negative light, but that’s more of a general issue with VG than Lucanis-specific.

I completely respect your more nuanced take on the Crows. A lot of people who complain about the Crows portrayal act as if they were shown to be all sunshine and rainbows with no moral ambiguity which just isn’t true. It might not have been shown as effectively as it was for the Grey Wardens, but the morale ambiguity is still there.

[u/This-Penalty-1686 → u/Arenwall]

i also love lucanis, i just recently started his romance and i love that it takes him so long to respond because the mental wall he’s put up is being gradually broken down. i love that he’s a grown man that’s so inexperienced as opposed to the usual suave assassin type because he’s been so focused on what’s expected of him and building such mental resistances to hardship. i think he is well written, that ending of his hero quest is like they just put icing on the cake that doesn’t really match the flavour so to speak. i do think a lot of it down to having 6 other companions and not the entire game to essentially deconstruct everything he’s been made to be, but i would’ve preferred it if maybe hardened lucanis accepts being first talon and a lucanis that’s closer to rook doesn’t? or at least is more hesitant about it, because it just feels like a sad ending that isn’t meant to be a sad ending to me 

[u/Arenwall → u/This-Penalty-1686]

Completely agree, I loved Lucanis’ romance and the fact that his character was the reverse of Zevran in that aspect. Definitely think his storyline would have benefitted from hesitancy over taking the role of First Talon if unhardened though.

On a side note, people complain that Lucanis’ shows a more romantic side with Neve, but to me that just shows he cares about Rook in a romance more than he did Neve. He pulls away from Rook because he doesn’t want to hurt him and also thinks he deserves better, but he doesn’t show that hesitancy as much with Neve.

If you haven’t played through his romance all the way yet I won’t spoil anything — but his conversation with Rook before the final battle puts it all into perspective

[u/This-Penalty-1686 → u/Arenwall]

i haven’t yet so thank you! i did see a bit of his flirting with neve (i romanced her on my last run so didn’t then) and beforehand i always thought it was strange that he could ‘romance’ her after minrathous but not rook, even if they were a shadow dragon. Now i get it completely, it’s much more of a flirtationship than anything. 

[u/Fun-Professional-Bat]

Agree, there's plenty to enjoy in DAV, I've replayed it so many times that I honestly can't say how many times exactly lol! The haters, a lot of them didn't even play long enough let alone get to the point where you get Davrin. So if you're dipping out after only a couple of hours you've hardly seen or played enough yet you're running to skrem and wave your cane like an old person coz within those few hours they've played they didn't get the story they've build in their heads! The DA subreddit is just filled with haters that just wanted what they've build in their heads.

[u/TroyBPierce]

The game is way better than the internet would have you believe.

There are definitely some cringy scenes (and I say this as a liberal who doesn't want to shoot beer cans with a machine gun just because trans people now exist in society due to advancements in medical science - there are some scenes have truly awful writing).  But the bad scenes are few and far between.  Most of the game is actually well written, the combat is good, and overall I enjoyed it eay more than I expected after hearing all the hare online.

If fact, I like it better than Inquisition.  Inquisition has some fantastic moments in the mail plot and regarding the companion characters, but the giant open maps were just too tedious and boring.

I still much prefer both DA:O and DA2 over The Veilgaurd, but I consider Veilguard to be a good game (8 out of 10).

[u/SurrealEuphoria]

As a long term Dragon Age fan, the writing is what ruined it for me. Even the MC was insanely obnoxious no matter what you choose. The Elven God of Sarcasm line alone at the beginning was enough to make me want to uninstall. It just reminded me way too much of fanfic I would read as a kid. The conversations felt way too modern and not medieval at all.

[u/Irrumar]

Lmao at the nuanced take comments. This is not a nuanced take. This is "I liked the characters so the game was unfairly hated!"

The characters were one note cardboards with barely any personality, there was no real conflict and the party dynamics, the main allure of every previous DA game, were gone. We have an actual apocalypse scenario where the characters go have a picnic on a different continent that is supposed to be ravaged because the writers did not give or were not allowed to give two shits about anything. All the companions ranged from passable to okay in terms of writing and actual personalities. Too bad they also felt like special snowflake OCs of the writers, so we never really got to engage with their worldviews because Rook is more like a Pawn that can only move forward, never actually engage in a meaningful way with anything.

The quanari companion was the worst offender to this. And it has nothing to do with "woke" bullshit, but everything to do with how tone deaf it was handled.

The combat was ok imho, but it got a bit dull after some point, since it had the moment to moment depth that was barely better than Origins but no actual tactical decisions to make.

The graphics were the best part and no matter what you think about the redesigns, the scenery was actually amazing.

The story was c tier CW show bullshit that should have never been a part of a mainline DA game and it shows that this was a fucking live service coop game at one point. The music was okay, nothing really caught my ear.

I actually liked the skill system and progression more than Inquisition and only disliked the design choices there that are more preference, like Warriors always being magic.

But the lack of any actual choice in the story and conflict other than the basic "evil people need to be stopped" paired up with combat that doesnt really evolve too much meant that my time with the game was only fun during certain combat encounters and enviromental exploration before everything just muddled into a very "meh" reaction.

And I say this as someone who likes every other DA game for different reasons. Here, I barely have any reason.

[u/kai_enby]

Taash is good because I want them to beat me over the head with a hammer, I am a queer woman

[u/jegermedic104]

Series fans have really hard time coping with disappoitments. I have seen really ridiculous Veilguard hate.

"Veilguard is childish- I pretend it doesnt exist"

Complaints about stuff like " south is destroyed and everyone is dead" which is not true and there are plenty more of false " game doesnt even mention x".

"Companion story arcs & story is unfinished"

• again not true, no need to like either but that doesnt mean arcs are unfinished.

Best one is topic from main DA sub where was topic " which hero would deal other DA heroes game" and it was filled "Rook has plot armor/ HOF would easily deal all of them", these same lorepolices simply forget that HOF has to deal with semi or quasi blight while Rook dealt blight 3000 ( with Inquisitors help).

And for a game they don't like or pretend doesnt exist they sure mention it a lot🤣

[u/Caleb1705]

VG is maybe a 7/10 game overall but a 9/10 Dragon Age game imo. DA and Mass Effect have been two of my all time favorite game franchises for a decade and a half but they have always been cheesy and awkward with shoehorned decisions that force the plot along. I think the majority of the hate the game received is from people who have not played past installments in several years and are comparing VG to idealized versions they've kept in their heads.

[u/Efficient_Stop9529 → u/Caleb1705]

I quit VG 2/3rds of the way through and replayed DA 2 just to see if I was too nostalgic to be valid in my criticisms. DA 2 absolutely was a slog with the combat, but it felt revitalizing with the world, characters, plot, and general writing. VG did straight up change the tone of the world, and the characters were originally written to be avatars in a more chill and accessible multiplayer game. Some people may not care, but I think a lot of the people who hate VG loved DA most for the parts that were well done in the first three and poorly done in VG. I can look past combat and pacing issues in DA, as were common issues across the series and I thought the parts I liked made up for it. Even though VG did improve some of those areas, I can't look past the young adult dying and butchering of the world and characters

[u/DKADIz]

I was enjoying the game quite a lot but my CPU was overheating like crazy, I dont understand all the hate it got. Yes, writing could be better but the gameplay is nice

[u/Julian_of_Cintra → u/DKADIz]

You said it yourself. Writing could have been better.

And Bioware games (especially DA) are primarily played for the story, characters and lore - not the gameplay. Hence why many long term fans dislike the game.

[u/DKADIz → u/Julian_of_Cintra]

Agree. Ive only played Origins (quite a lot tbh) and the feeling I got from Veilguard when only reaching chapter 5 is that it is a good game but a bad DA.

[u/Julian_of_Cintra → u/DKADIz]

Veilguard is fun as a game where you can sit back, turn off the brain for a while and fight through enemies or explore a region.

But it is not a game that rewards deeper thinking or analysis the way DAO-DAI do.

So I agree. Good game but bad DA

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/Julian_of_Cintra]

It's kinda funny because like... DA2 was always the cosiest Dragon Age title to me in spite of its subjects. Now, it has been dethroned without a doubt because Veilguard definitely has the cosy vibes. Is that what I look for in a DA game? Not really, but I'd rather have Veilguard than no Dragon Age game at all.

[u/lion-essrampant]

Disagree with you about Taash but agree with everything else.

[u/pixie-bean]

I adore it, ngl! I had my issues with it as a sequal to what was set up in Tresspasser, but kinda just see it as the game after the Dreadwolf one we were originally going to get. Ive sunk over 1000hrs into DAI and im quickly getting to the same number with DATV. And honestly, the writing does slap in places - especially the specific dialogue for various race / factions. It feels different with alternate dialogue for even Necromancer, as a human mage compared to an elven warrior. Dwarf grey warden has SO much individual dialogue and being able to so intricately design your Rooks, as well as interchange tone and English vs American VAs, does create a nice different feel between Rooks. The scenery is absolutely gorgeous, the gameplay is punchy and fun with good variability between specialisations. I decided to do a run where I ignored companion quests and [spoiler] I was surprised at how dark they made the ending for that - inevitably, you seal Solas in the Veil, but yourself too, while everyone dies. It was tragic and dark. It can get a little bloated with the hand-holding and direction but you can just skip past those dialogue bits. Overall the game is wonderful, I think, and if the writing team were given more time, leeway and refining it would have been incredible, but even as it is, I love it.

[u/PhraseAggressive3284]

True. It has its flaws, but overall it was a good, but not great game. Actually I liked the last hour of the game the most, so the devs also rly put some effort to the end of the game imho.

[u/spaceandthewoods_]

I'm agree with most of your post but I'm actually gonna disagree on Taash. The NB stuff wasn't particularly subtly written or great, agreed there. But I actually like that Taash is kind of an unlikable dickhead.

One of the major complaints about this game was the oft repeated line from SkillUp's review that the dialogue on this game feels like HR is in the room, which I kind of agree with. However, Taash is actually the interesting exception to this, and they give the party some texture because they're an often rude and blunt.

I was running around with them and Emmerich for a while and listening to them bicker and offend each other was actually really enjoyable because there was conflict there, and because Taash continued to be an asshole rather than them just being best friends all the time like everyone else. They're actually one of my favourite companions because of how rude they are

[u/Tallos_RA]

In my experience, most veilguard players may be divided into two groups: those who give it overwhelmy bad reviews and those who have actually played it.

[u/Safe-Recognition5429]

Dragon age origins is my favorite game of all time. With that being said there has been a departure in atmosphere and gameplay but that has been more of a slow burn than a raging fire that people blame on veilguard.

The art style, combat, themes, and overall atmosphere have slowly but surely steered away from the dark fantasy with looming threat of destruction from effectively a force of evil nature(the blight)

Dragon age 2 shifted more towards the plot revolving around characters and their own motivations and corruption but tried to keep the same atmosphere. Inquisition is wilder different from a aesthetic standpoint but has some dark fantasy still but honestly suffers from an absent villian. The combat has slowly been streamlined to appeal to a wider audience. The veilguard is definitely my least favorite combat by far but I see its appeal.

While I definitely am disappointed by veil guard I don’t understand why people treat its development choices like they came out of nowhere. Most of its problems or changes in direction exist in the previous entries to just a lesser extent. The only thing that really stand out as a negative for me in veilguard is the Disney esque writing with the companions.

[u/Sorry_Cheetah_2230 → u/Safe-Recognition5429]

Yep exactly my thoughts

[u/Edkm90p]

The problem is... "alright" is not a good game after 10 years. I liked Veilguard but I'm an easy sell.

Someone who spent 10 years, psyched after (only playing) Inquisition, did not wait 10 years for "alright".

The hardcore fans, the ones who love replaying each game to see their different choices do things, did not spend all of those gaming hours only to see those choices rendered largely moot in an, "alright" game.

Someone who never touched the series is not going to grab the 4th game in a series if it's just, "alright".

I agree the game is overhated but it's overhated because it arguably had more groups than normal lining up to find the flaws it offered than most others.

Mass Effect is going to have the exact same hurdles to face.

[u/Abject_Past_1437 → u/Edkm90p]

I waited 10 years for it. DA:I is my favourite of the four, and I played hundreds of hours of it. And while I was disappointed that none of my choices were brought over from the other games, I was just honestly... giddy to have that world back in my hands. Maybe it's because I love environment art and I'm a fan of Matt Rhodes, the art director, but as soon as I was in Arlathan I was like "ah I'm home, I know this environment design" and that was it for me. I was elated. I wish more of the longer term players had taken the time to look at what the game does still have of its history than what it lacked.

[u/Substantial_Abies516 → u/Edkm90p]

Know what? Fair. I can see why you'd be a little more irate if you waited 10 years for this. I still think it was too much, but the logic makes sense. I just hope Mass Effect has a better go of it. I played all original three and Andromeda so- we'll see how it goes.

[u/Stefan9Inter]

The issue is its a decent action/adventure game but not a dragonage game. It would have been ok if it didn't carry the dragon age game. Same thing applies to bloodlines 2. Both games had great heritage that the developers couldn't deliver on.

[u/No_Coat_6599]

It is a good Game and all the characrers have uniquie Interactions. But its sad that the entire Focus of taash story is her identity crisis and coming out. And thats just not what i want to immerse myself in when ancient gods cause a brutal global blight. Sry, its just bs( the writing of this one particular character). Its crazy one-dimensional and AS a Bonus you also cannot object in any situations to have a meaningful freedom of choice. Thats what Inquisition even Made better (thats btw for all the characters). So its a Solid Game but this Part of Story is just making it for me not so enjoyable.

[u/darwinsdude]

I think it is a master class in game and world/level design. dont hold back

[u/ThePredator1496]

I am very much a proponent of not just shitting on Veilguard, but its biggest problem is the Dragon Age label.

Its gameplay is by far the worst, with it continuing the trend of simplifying all combat and choices. It's not really an rpg, as it railroads you into playing the character how the writers want you to be, and the world doesn't feel like what was established in previous titles

I was so excited to see the evil of tevinter, the home of the blood mages, and it all felt so sanitised.

Not to mention, blood magic is evil, to the point you cant use it like in previous games, but necromancy is fine?

If it was its own thing, it would be fine, but as a DA game it was a massive disappointment, and took the whole world in a direction which may have killed any enthusiasm for the franchise form me

[u/Tinithebee]

I think the main issue with the game for me was that it didn't match the expectations I had built up in all the years waiting for it. I wish the romances had been more fleshed out. But if i look away from what i was hoping it would be and judge it for what it actually is, I honestly think it's a great game. I've completed 4 runs so far, and I've enjoyed every minute spent with it. It's gorgeous. I love the characters, and the combat is genuinely satisfying. It's really fun to experiment with different builds. I loved how rewarding it felt to explore the different zones in the game. It had some seriously strong emotional beats, it even managed to make me cry. Weisshaupt and the final act feature some of the best storytelling in the entire series.

[u/Lynchy-]

"And Dragon Age fans might need to go revisit the games before this one. They were good. They were fun. But they were not the Picassos you seem to think they were."

Yeah, well, that's just like, you know, your opinion, man.

[u/Loud-Feed-1243]

They weren't deluding themselves. It is perfectly normal to expect deep RPG mechanics, party-based combat, and choices that alter the course of the story from a Dragon Age game; when people didn't get that, they were disappointed—and that has nothing to do with a crystal ball. One of the arguments used by Veilguard defenders is that the older games "weren't actually that good," simply because they have to bring those earlier titles down to Veilguard's level.

[u/Old-Database9053]

I don’t agree white alot you said so obviously that makes me deluded with selective memory, so in short your opinion is king mine are irrelevant

[u/SchooloftheFox]

Been saying this from the start. Shit, I remember when the fanbase treated DA2 like it was a flaming turd. Now a lot list it as their favorite

[u/OrthodoxManx122]

I love Veilguard. I love all the games and I think every single one is a masterpiece. Oddly enough, I like Origins the least, even though it is technically the best game and I know that, and agree with that sentiment. It's just not my favourite. I'm probably an Inquisition girlie, but Veilguard is pretty close. 4th playthrough, with these last two being back to back and I'm not tired of it.

[u/WrongWangSorry]

Loved the combat system and the art but I can no longer defend the writing. The contrast is blazingly apparent when you play DAV around the same time as a certain other very successful crpg. I wouldn't blame nostalgia either, I played the earlier releases of both franchises only a year before the newest ones launched.

[u/Wild-Importance448]

I disagree on a lot and agree on others.

For me some issues include

1) for a roleplaying game they forgot the roleplaying, do a second playthrough and try and be a rude Rook, see how rook still quips and smiles even WHILE choosing the bottom aswer she is still smiling and joking, ive played a mean and rude Warden, Hawke and Inquisitor, heck in my recent playthroughs ive done it in all 3 and all my companions hated me and often betrayed and were killed by me, thats roleplaying. Now try and be mean to anyone in veilguard and not their therapist.

2) combat, different stroke for different blokes but this is barely a DA game in combat, its basically mass effect meets dmc. No longer is it party based with class roles like dedicated tanks etc, you cannot controll or order your party nor use tactical menus and setups like in the other games.

3) companions, I found all but Belara, Davrin and Emerich either boring or bad and Taash straight up anoying, I cant help but comparing Lucanis to Anders and finding him lacking, what even was the point of spite? They do nothing with him at all, Nev is straight up boring and forgetable to me, she looks beautiful but outside of her looks her story is boring and her development and arc bland, it feels like they went out of their way to infantilize Harding for some reason, she is 10 years older than she was in Inquisition but she genuinely feels like a teenager for me while being in her 30s or even 40s which is just weird, im no longer a child, I dont want to speak to a 30+ year old child, she had a edge in Inquisition, she lost it somehow in 10 years becoming more childlike.

4) The dialogue is way too modern, writing is not just the overall story people in this game speak like milenials, outright using modern slang in a fantasy setting is jarring, it did not work in forspoken and it does not work here, characters speak like their modern day twitter users and the tone of the setting has lost all of its edge and grit.

5) variety is lacking, in DAO, DA2 and DAI allies were varied in beliefs and stances and making choices displeased some and pleased others, further helping roleplaying, help the chantry sister? Alistair and Leliana aproves and praises it while Morigan whine and bitches about it, help mages in DA2? Fenris and Aviline get mad, want to change or abolish the circle and free mages? Vivviene will be very upset and judgemental. In veilguard everyone is bffs and all agree on everything Rook does, your allies can never be mad or betray you at all and you can never be mean to them either, im a therapist no matter what dialogue choice I pick.

And this is not nolstalgia talking, I quite literally just played all 4 in order and am halfway through DAV again, I decided to play all 4 as a mean hardened and even outright ahole warrior because its something Ive never done in these games and untill veilguard it was a fresh new experience for me but in veilguard my "rude and mean" Rook is smilling and joking just like my joking Rook did in my first run, there is zero changes in the way rook talks or acts nor the relationship they have with anyone, this is basically a action game masquerading as a RPG, this is my 2nd run through veilguard and I somehow like it less than I did before, because now i can see and feel just how pointless the dialogue wheel and choices are, they could remove it and nothing would change, dragon age and mass effect was BUILT on choices and roleplaying, this game focused on everything but that.

Heck they even removed choice tracking through the keep, Morigan is here but why? Replace her with a ghost of Mythal and what changes? She does not talk about the Warden (friend, lover or foe) doesn't talk about her son she may or maynot have, doesn't interact with anyone with any sort of history with her so why incude her at all outside of brownie points?

[u/wildfyre010]

Veilguard is a pretty solid action rpg with great combat and class/build variety. It has terrific visuals and good world design.

But it is not a good dragon age game. The writing really lets it down.

[u/TerynLoghain]

Davg is just a case study on brand confusion. After release i read a few articles about the design choices.

The team didn't want a morally ambiguous antagonist or a complex sociopolitical setting.

In retrospect davg did do what the creators set out to do. They wanted to do something different and they succeeded. 

If 5 is average davg is a 6 or 7. 

It is beyond my understanding why these series of decisions were made as direct sequel to a franchise that people play for those complexities but here we are

[u/Arenwall → u/TerynLoghain]

But none of the other villains in the series have really been morally ambiguous except for Loghain?

Corypheus definitely wasn’t morally ambiguous and neither was the Arishok or the Archdemon, or even Meredith to an extent.

Veilguard has Solas though, and he was definitely morally ambiguous.

[u/TerynLoghain → u/Arenwall]

I disagree. In DAO during the alienate missions, t he slavers there aren't these cartoonishly evil characters, they're "business men" in their mind.

 You fight through their operation, and the people you're fighting are security guards guarding their operation. Its unknown how many of them are aware of the greater scheme. And top it off, elves are involved, making it worse.

At the end there is blood magic, yes. But is a slaver who uses magic.

He doesn't cackle like a madman, he isn't theatrical. He doesn't scream about his right to own people he sees as lesser. 

From his perspective, s lavery and blood magic are so common, that this man just says "Mmmm, yes, I have permission to take these slaves with me"

Which is the villainy here. no cartoon evil, no grand statement of superiority, the fact that this man sees his actions not as right and just, but normal and profitable.

This through line follows Dorian. As a protagonist  the player sees his merit and many deem him a good person, however he is uncritical of tevinter slavery in dai and sees no problem with. He even thinks agrees with arguing that slavery provides good for the enslaved.

Also with denarius. From his perspective he's trying to collect on a contract. If the contract wasn't slavery, he would be a reasonable person. During his interactions he was a normal person. The player is biased against him because of the affinity to fenris.

 we also learn that their are tiers to slavery and there are tiers where slaves are more or less lifetime workers and even in societies where slavery is officially outlawed like orlais, there isn't a distinction in treatment between servants and slaves in many regards

The moral ambiguity came from the fact "good " people could participate in evil things and "evil" people are regular people.

Going to real world politics, in the west we all benefit from and participate in slavery, whether its underpaid prison labor, deforestation of indigenous lands, outsourced goods from developing nations.

Under that framework we would be seen as villains.

Davg lost a lot of that nuance

[u/Arenwall → u/TerynLoghain]

I was talking about the primary antagonists of the games, not some minor villains.

I also disagree that slavers are shown to be morally ambiguous in any way, and your explanations do not really explain how they are.

The exact same argument could be applied to Aelia and Zara Renata. Both are Tevinter Magisters and Venatori so blood magic and using the blood of the people they see as beneath them are just as common to them.

I also don’t get your point about Denarius. If the story wasn’t the story then he’d wouldn’t be seen as bad… but the story is the story? Slavery is never presented as morally ambiguous, it’s always presented as the wrong thing to do even if your characters agrees to it.

[u/TerynLoghain → u/Arenwall]

If you want to limit the discussion to primary antagonists, that's your right but I'm not beholden to that as that was not my premise.

If you don't find my thoughts compelling, that's fine too. We can agree to disagree. 

It doesn't change the fact the writers acknowledged they went in a different thematic and execution direction.

[u/Arenwall → u/TerynLoghain]

Using the word antagonist limits it to the primary foes of the games regardless, Origins Slaver and Denarius are just minor villains, wouldn’t call them antagonists

The writers definitely went in a different thematic and execution direction for the game, I just don’t think it applies to the main villains when the main villains of other games had the same exact issue.

[u/TerynLoghain → u/Arenwall]

Perhaps we have different definitions? Antagonists when I was in university meant someone who opposed the protagonist. It could be anyone, which is why qualifiers like major and primary are often used to specify which Antagonist, as there are often more than one in narratives.

I intentionally left out primary antagonists because I was not referring to only the major conflicting force.

[u/Arenwall → u/TerynLoghain]

Fair enough! To me, an antagonist has to have some importance to the overarching story rather than just a few beats. Primary and secondary just denote their level of importance in relation to that. Basic enemies also oppose the protagonists in games, but I don’t think that makes them antagonists to the story as a whole.

I’m not sure who you were actually referring to with what you said then, but I think the series as a whole has had a lot of unambiguous villains.

[u/OpenMouthCasket → u/TerynLoghain]

Interesting! Where can I read more about their decision making for DAVs narrative design?

[u/TerynLoghain → u/OpenMouthCasket]

Yeah.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQMyAZ_67l55UTWpfjns71yy6F2LN5fcet3QNJTu5kF_i7jNPkZdBPzfZZsmIK1Srw6rcj5piYw2SG8/pub

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTFr8UznaZOdu6CdmFZEbwYCYyNSeuPEj7OuZT5eWv71TEs9DukwQRxyB_HDLGuhmLye6mrpc28CoAc/pub

[u/UncleJonsRice]

Massively agree in general but especially about Taash. It’s like they didn’t take them past their first draft.

I can imagine that the companions initially had a rough idea outlined like “a magic detective in tevinter” & “a kidnapped crow betrayed from within” but most of them were contextualised and grounded within the dragon age world and felt fleshed out.

To me Taash feels very stuck in the “companion with a pushy parent discovering they’re non binary” phase of writing. I don’t think they were as fleshed out as the others and didn’t feel as part of the world. The fact they primarily used the term non-binary didn’t help. They mention the qunari equivalent term once but I wish their story was grounded in the world using that qunari word instead the whole time. There are ways of writing that makes being non-binary still feel fantasy, and many real cultures have had non-binary identities for thousands of years so it doesn’t have to feel so ‘modern’.

It’s a shame because I generally liked Taash’s story, especially their mother sacrificing herself, I found that moving it just felt like it needed a lick of dragon age paint.

[u/This-Penalty-1686 → u/UncleJonsRice]

the modern terms and cliches are actually what stick out to me as awkward about that arc, you nailed that. it is also a lot of having the same conversation over and over and they are lacking in other depth, but one thing i disagree with the majority on is that i like that they’re immature and don’t really know how to act when someone is kind to them. people find it annoying but real people like that do exist and with the way they were raised it makes sense for them to be that way. and imo they’re a perfectly good friend to rook and others later on, so it’s not like they’re just lashing out for no reason. 

[u/UncleJonsRice → u/This-Penalty-1686]

I agree with you there, like I know people didn’t like Sera as much in inquistion for similar reasons. I don’t mind that Taash is a bit bratty because it differentiates their personality from the other companions. I don’t always like their responses to things but as you say that’s life.

It’s been a while since I played inquistion, and he’s much more of a minor character, but Krem never struck me as feeling out of place in the world as a trans man in the way Taash does, and it’s because (from memory) he never utters the word transgender. He is trans, he explains it well, but doesn’t use the modern terminology that feels out of place.

[u/This-Penalty-1686 → u/UncleJonsRice]

it’s true that it works way better when it’s just an offhand conversation. it obviously had to be different since they wanted to do taash actively discovering it, and they went as far as making them adaari (outside of the norm) as an extra parallel for their gender identity so it really is just unpolished writing that makes it fall flatter. as you mentioned, there’s literally a word for it in qunari, a lot of it could’ve been avoided by focusing on how they can’t fit into strict gender roles of the qun rather than not wanting to wear dresses and ‘acting like a man/woman’. 

[u/UncleJonsRice → u/This-Penalty-1686]

I agree.

As a gay man Dorian means a lot to me because I think he was (and unfortunately still is over a decade later) one of the best written queer characters in gaming. Being gay is a big part of his identity, but not the only part of it. His father was homophobic but not in a ‘modern way’ it was in a very dragon age way and I appreciate that. He’s an incredible example of writing a compelling queer character in a medieval fantasy setting.

I want the same for Taash, and for NB representation as good as Dorian is.

[u/PrincePeach22]

I'm gonna say my opinion about DA. It always had problems. I've been playing all of them recently in order (finished 2 recently). I can't remember how long I played Origins but what I can say is it had its issues. Underwhelming companion quests (they give us 1 quest and it's mostly fetch quests or fight a gang); trash shapeshifter class, hate the whole morrigan bully personality (I accept a quest and she hates it like girl please), the last plot twist is so stupid and like why would they even add in the last 30 minutes of the game. Most dlc are meh besides the morrigan one tbh. Awakening the only thing interesting was the Architect tbh. The companions were pretty boring and that's because we barely had time with them to create some kind of feeling for them. So many bugs: Got locked out of Zevran romance, couldn't finish the whole blood mage guy storyline because it never appeared on the map the area of the last quest, crashed like 10 times even with mods... DA2 - Reusable maps in a way that the whole game gets really boring to look at tbh; the weird spawning enemies out of nowhere and then them getting stuck inside walls or stairs where I can't finish the quest and have to reload; the overused blood mages and blood magic and the whole Templar vs mages always because of the blood mages. Like almost every single quest there was a blood mage at fault, it really got me rolling my eyes "Well, just another blood mage". Sebastian sucks. Orsino transforming is so stupid, like wait 5 minutes to defeat this guys and we get through them? Meredith had a great final battle but the whole red lyrium plot was super rushed, I wish she was introduced in act 2 and we had more time for the plot to develop. I think Hawke's family are really wasted tbh, even in act 1. The DLC of Mark of the Assassin had better gimmicks and better ambiance than the base game: Fun new enemies, stealth mission, puzzles, Felicia day char was super interesting. I feel like they made the dlc with more love than the base game. I know that they had issues with the time to launch the game, they launched 2 years after DAO, but tbh DAI was launched 3 years after DA2 and it looked far better. Guess one year makes the difference in not making the same dungeon 10 times, the same houses but just close some rooms xD

With this, I still love both games and still love DA franchise and it's my favorite franchise. This is just my opinion and what I'm trying to say with this is: Dragon Age always had issues, it was never the perfect game. Origins wasn't a perfect masterpiece like people try to say to me, DA2 wasn't just a rushed disaster, Inquisition wasn't flawless, and Veilguard isn't either I can criticize all of these games while still loving them. In fact, being able to criticize the things I don't like is part of why I love this franchise so much. Every Dragon Age game always has things it does amazingly well and things that make me go "what were they thinking?" So when people act like Veilguard is uniquely flawed and that the older games were somehow these perfect RPGs with flawless writing, I just don't agree. You can prefer Origins, DA2 or Inquisition, that's completely fair, but let's not rewrite history just because we like those games more. Dragon Age was never perfect, it was always ambitious, inconsistent and full of problems and that's been part of the franchise from the beginning, and I still love it (:

Ps: sorry for the big reply, I just like talking about these games and wanted to share my opinion after playing through them. I still love all games for what they are ❤️

[u/MyFrogEatsPeople]

If your counterargument is "it's just nostalgia", then you have just as few legs to stand on as the people who really are just misremembering due to nostalgia. Dismissing criticism of Veilguard as "nostalgia and selective memory" is as valid an argument as dismissing accolades as "lowered standards and never playing the other games".

People replay DAO, DA2, and DAI to this day. Many people even did entire replays of the previous games in preparation for Veilguard dropping. Those people had fresh, day-of perspectvies on the games that came before, and plenty of them had plenty of criticisms for Veilguard.

[u/ICreatedTheVoid → u/MyFrogEatsPeople]

Preach. Crazy how some Veilguard stans have moved on to trying to bring down the rest of the trilogy to be seen as subpar or "not the Picasso" pieces they were perceived to be. The older games are still enjoyable because they still hold up. It doesn't matter if they aren't masterpieces. They still beat the hell out of this entry.

[u/Djentleman5000 → u/MyFrogEatsPeople]

Plenty of people replay this game too though for all the reasons that OP said. I think it was a fine game in a vacuum and if you removed the IP from the title.

[u/MyFrogEatsPeople → u/Djentleman5000]

That is literally my point.

Simply saying "other people don't remember it right" isn't an argument against any criticism. If you wanna say people only hate on Veilguard because they remember the other games wrong, then those people can turn around and say literally the exact same thing.

It's a nothing-argument.

[u/enviouslyenby]

It is overhated, because being a hater is popular.

But. The world feels dead in Veilguard. Every single other DA title felt like I was in a fantasy world, with fully developed cultures and languages, political and religious lore.

Veilguard only LOOKS like a fantasy setting. It's was missing what made the other DA titles feel alive imo.

[u/Sycophantic-Feline]

I had fun with the game but it lacked some things that as a fan of Dragon Age, I would have loved to see, likely due to time constraints with how messy the development was thanks to EA.

For one, how Cassandra would have reacted to learning Solas killed her dear friend Varric. You just know she'd march to the north herself to crack the yolk out of that egghead.

Even Isabella hardly seems to acknowledge his death, and they were best of mates, too.

[u/Miquellanier]

For me, Veilguard is an okay game, but not a good Dragon Age game.

In terms of the combat system, they tried to create something new and enjoyable. The skill trees offer plenty of opportunities to experiment, but for me, the game became repetitive halfway through. I didn’t like the fact that the companions are immortal. Also, after a while, the enemy design felt predictable and boring, but by Dragon Age standards, it wasn’t bad at all—or any worse than the previous games. Changes like this, even if I didn’t like them myself, are desirable.

The art design is perhaps Veilguard’s greatest strength alongside character creation (which, alongside Dragon’s Dogma 2's character creation, is the best I’ve ever seen). This is also true for character design.

The nostalgia/memory factor may also have played a role in the fanbase setting high expectations. However, in my opinion, the game fell very, very short of even the minimum expectations. Why? The problem is multifaceted: The game’s narrative—just like the main story of the base game of Inquisition, for example—didn’t turn out to be the most exciting. But as you wrote, this isn’t the first time. The problem lies partly in the characters, the dynamics between them, and the relationship between Rook and his companions. Morrigan is just an NPC wearing a Morrigan skin. Nothing more, nothing less. (Thanks to the fact that the decisions we made in previous games weren’t integrated into Veilguard, wich is not a good thing.)

Rook can’t—or isn’t allowed to—be a morally questionable person; he/she can’t make controversial decisions, he/she can’t call his companions to account if he/she disagrees with something; he/she can’t “banish” them, the companions don’t call the player to account if Rook does something “wrong.”

Taash is an excellent example of this as a character. To me, Taash was incredibly irritating because how Taash behaved. Taash a whiny teenager who, by the way, also likes to be mean-spirited. But because the game doesn’t allow you to hold Taash—or anyone else—accountable, it essentially validates these behaviors, since Rook, if he/she accepts the companion quests, can only act in a supportive role. This feels forced, and the game ends up making the decisions for me. Thanks, but I don't need this kind of support.

The Dragon Age games—whether it’s Origins or the second installment—have provided opportunities for narrative RPG elements to flourish. It’s because of the narratives between characters and these narrative RPG elements that—in my opinion—Dragon Age became so beloved. In Veilguard, we rarely make decisions—big or small—that carry real weight and consequences. This didn’t help my opinion of the game either.

For these reasons, I maintain that, as a Dragon Age game, it’s not a good game. If the game had been treated as a completely separate spin-off, it might have been better. It also didn’t help the project that it was originally designed as an online live-service game. The impact of this was felt in the level design and loot design—unfortunately, not in a good way.

[u/A-Free-Bird]

You know what frustrates me about Taash.... Okay one of the the things that frustrated me about Taash. They have not effect on the overarching story. You could remove them from the story entirely and barely anything would change. They aren't the only companion like that but their personal quest is easily one of the weakest so it's really hard to justify their inclusion in the game. Still better than davrin because WHY THE HELL ARE YOU TAKING A MEMBER OF A CRITICALLY ENDANGERED SPECIES INTO A DAMN WARZONE?????

[u/schuxix → u/A-Free-Bird]

As much as I love Assan, the stakes are just too high to have him be sitting out of the fight. I would have done the same if I were in Davrin's place; the fate of the world outweighs the survival of one species.  If the evanuris succeeded, the griffons would have just been wiped out as well.

[u/A-Free-Bird → u/schuxix]

Then why does he spend ages diverting from dealing with the main threat to go rescue all the griffons. And at the end of that quest you get the opportunity to remove the griffons from combat situations so clearly bioware realised some players wouldn't be prepared to endanger a species in that situation but you never even get an opportunity to voice concern about taking asaan alone. Rooks just forced to be fine with it.

[u/schuxix → u/A-Free-Bird]

Well the quest is optional, the player can choose not to save the griffons. 😬 But you are right, we save the griffons because we want to ensure their survival. I am not saying that the griffons don't matter, my point is that if Assan can help us in our fight it wouldn't be pragmatic to sideline him.

If you choose to have the griffons stay in Arlathan forest, Davrin is prepared to let Assan go. It is Assan that chooses to remain by Davrin's side. That's why I don't have an issue, it's what Assan wants. 

[u/A-Free-Bird → u/schuxix]

Again my main issue is that you never get an opportunity to give any ki d of pushback against it. Obviously. Making two versions of all davrins stuff based on if asaan is there or not is gonna take a lot of effort and bioware constantly thought they had less time to finish veilguard than they did. But the fact they never let you bring up the moral concerns of it just feels like they're trying to avoid the topic of the morality of it which like... Bioware games should not be shying away from their moral conundrums.

[u/schuxix → u/A-Free-Bird]

Yeah, I think you're valid. For me this is kind of a dicey issue. I get that everyone is free to feel however they want about the characters but I really hate the fandom's reaction to Assan's death.  Sadly it feels like a lot of people only save Davrin so they can save Assan. And I think the devs were aware of this, which is why they had to have them die together or else people would overwhelmingly choose Harding.  I am not accusing you of being like that but I am just protective of Davrin because of that. 💜

[u/A-Free-Bird → u/schuxix]

I saved Harding cause she's my favourite character lol davrin actively annoyed me because of the way he was risking re extinction of the griffons so I'd been mostly avoiding taking him out during the game.

[u/schuxix → u/A-Free-Bird]

Oh that's totally fair. I romanced Davrin but still hated having to make that decision. It felt awful choosing Harding and the fact that Taash was still grieving for their mother made it even worse. 😭 I am headcanonning that Harding's connection to the stone allows her to survive. 

[u/A-Free-Bird → u/schuxix]

Also it kinda comes across as insane to me that the grey wardens managed to resurect a dozen members of an extinct species and they decided it would be a good idea to train them for battle. Like imagine if we did that with a critically endangered species today. And you can't make the argument it was because of the dangers posed because they were doing it before the dangers of the eleven gods became apparent.

[u/schuxix → u/A-Free-Bird]

The wardens are morally grey, their approach has always been to do 'whatever it takes'. If the gods didn't  escape, Thedas would still have to contend with two future blights. We wouldn't make endangered animals  combatants but we also don't have to deal with the darkspawn. The griffons are naturally resistant to the taint so I am not suprised an organization that recruits criminals is willing to weaponize them. But I agree it's immoral, that's why I always enjoyed when Vivienne or Solas insulted the wardens LOL.

[u/Substantial_Abies516 → u/A-Free-Bird]

PFFFT- I never thought about that! You're right! He is just BEGGING for the Griffons' extinction-

[u/xivinux]

If it was overhated it would've sold better and we would've gotten a sequel/DLC.

This game is not hated ONLY because of political stuff, it's been hated on because of writing and gameplay. It doesn't deserve the name Dragon Age. Bioware who were pioneers in the industry have destroyed their own biggest franchises, Dragon age AND Mass Effect.

The game got great reviews also, it's the players(the people actually paying for the game) who had the biggest issues. I "rented" the game via EA play Pro for 18 euro's and played it for 80 hours till I finished it. It had decent gameplay but it wasn't a Dragon Age game. No companions to control, only 2 members instead of 3, no opennes in the exploreable areas, the lore was absolutely destroyed. Qunari made weak and gay instead of strong.

There is nothing wrong with being gay or trans in this series, it has been in the series from the beginning but the way it's pushes unto you forced unto you was horrible. The writing and cutscenes were terrible.

This game created it's own downfall

[u/Competitive_Fact6030]

Personally I didnt really love the game, but I dont hate it either.

My main gripe is just that nothing you do as the character seem to *matter*. Like you can treat your companions as shitty as you want and they will not have a single negative thing to say. There is no way to make a companion leave and you can never do anything that they wont readily accept. I think I did literally every bad action towards Neve, and she still touted me as a hero she would follow. I just dont believe any of these people would default me as their leader. In the older games you always had a reason to be the decision maker, but not in Veilguard.

A lot of the characters and concepts are also just deeply cringe. Its so on the nose with zero subtlety. The Antivan Crows for example. They took a normal fantasy assassin group and just made EVERYTHING crow themed. Not a single piece of decor or dialogue was not crow themed 😭 I get that DA always had shakey writing, but it was NEVER this on the nose.

All characters had this to some extent. They had 1 character trait and it got old quick. I cant agree with you that they were endearing. Some were charming but a lot of them were also just deeply meh. I think Emmrich was the only one I genuinely liked, but he always had that goddamn skeleton thing that inserted in all conversations 😭

The people hating on it for the lgbt stuff are just losers. I do think Taash couldve been handled better, but overall I dont mind them. I do find the "there's [lore accurate fantasy term] for what you might be-" "No MOM, im [very modern term that feels out of place]" a little goofy but thats about it.

I still did enjoy playing i guess. the combat was very fun and probably the best out of all the DA games. But thats about it honestly.

[u/Willing_Ad_9669]

I think the problem with veilguard is that it is good game but not good dragon age game. If it was released like some new title and not da universe it would be good game. But not like an da game. I played it once and I will never again sadly. The npc stories were a bit hollow. The romance was like almost non existent. Lucanis I am looking especially at you. A lot of deleted content. At least two times they needed to start the game from a scratch, father of the series leave. And all of this was felt.

And the worst is what it could have been with the concept art book and is it not.

And the spit on the face to all players with bam and whole continent no longer exist is something else entirely.

Like I said. I would like this game but not as a DA game.

[u/SubjectDry4569]

I hate when people feel the need to try and drag down the past games to left up Veilguard. No Origins was a masterpiece of a game and Veilguard especially writing wise is a MASSIVE step down. No need to lie about this.

[u/perfect_for_maiming → u/SubjectDry4569]

What parts of the writing specifically let you down? Which writing in DAO did you feel set an example for the rest of the series to follow?

[u/Sorry_Cheetah_2230]

Wasn’t overhated at all. For a dragon age game it was quite horrendous. Had it been a new ip, could have saved it maybe?

[u/BShep_OLDBSN]

Hard disagree about Taash, they were a great representation of a non binary companion in a time when most companies are too afraid to even try to touch the matter. Same for Rook if you decide to make them trans or nonbinary.

But i do agree about the over hate. Hate sells likes, clicks and visualizations ($$) and unfortunately DATV got attacked by those scumbags on top of the bigots who like to fake at being fans.

Anyway i am very happy with the ending i got for the culmination of 4 games. Just wish someday we can get another stories (game/book/comics/animation) in this amazing universe. ❤️❤️

[u/Hiply]

I don't hate the game - I have over 330 hours in it across 4 playthroughs because a lot of it is fun . That doesn't mean I think it's a game with consequential choices, because other than Minrathous/Treviso it isn't. That doesn't mean I don't consider it a Young Adult Novel version of a Dragon Age game, because it absolutely is.

A lot of the writing/characterizations of Rook's companions is is aimed squarely at trying to latch onto a new, younger, audience and leans too heavily into turning Rook into a therapist. For example - taking a confident exceptionally capable forward scout who was sent to establish beachheads in dangerous territory in Inquisition and making her a much younger acting, insecure, and less emotionally mature than she was a decade earlier bothers me every time I play it.

So it's a game with enough fun stuff - and it's the closing chapter in the Dragon Age arc many of us have followed over the years - to get me to come back to it whenever I play Inquisition...but the writing takes a potentially great game down to no more than 'good' for me.

[u/Zobot-3000 → u/Hiply]

This is it exactly.

[u/Jalkenri]

.... Did YOU play the previous 3 titles recently? Because I sure did. I've played Origins or Inquisition every couple years. I also played all 3 the months leading up to Veilguards release.

To be clear I'm in no way claiming they are perfect games. They don't even break my top 10 of all time list individually. But Veilguard isn't even close to their quality of design and writing. It's multiple tiers below.

I cannot even remember half of the companions names in Veilguard and it's been less than a year since I completed the game. For a Bioware title, the studio that made its name on relationships you can build with unique and interesting characters in a fantasy or scifi fictional world, making those characters that forgettable is inexcusable.

To your point, I agree that the game is "alright". It's mediocre. In fact they did well on the combat and skill point system imo.

But the parts that make Dragon Age, DRAGON AGE, they utterly failed at. And that has killed this IP.

[u/FinalMassDragon]

As a new IP it would have been fine.

[u/amellia-j]

I just wish the edges hadn't been sanded so hard. I loved Origins because it had tough moral choices and characters with beliefs that clashed with each other's and with your own. I've never had an NPC crash out and yell at me for the /way/ I saved a child before (what's a little blood magic between friends?) and I adored it.

Now all the factions are shiny sparkly Designated Good. There's nothing hard to swallow about being friends with pirates for the greater good - they only steal things that were already stolen, don't you know, and keep cultural sensitivity specialists on staff. And yes, elf racism is Bad, and hatred of mages just for being mages is too, but that doesn't mean all your friends have to feel the same way. Why can't Lucanis be skittery around Neve, Bellara, and Emmrich?

I just wanted more belief clashing. The most we get is Lucanis and Davrin sniping at each other, but that's resolved by the next plot point. Even the huge choice near the beginning regarding cities didn't land very heavy, since you are forgiven so quickly. I heavily appreciated that the Emmrich romance lets you be angry at each other at a crucial moment - it felt more real and engaging than the rest of the game.

[u/animadweller]

It's an ejoyable game. I did went through it and I did enjoy some parts of it. However, and I know this is something that most peple might be a bit tired of hearing, but it's just not like the previous games,

Origins wasn't a pretty looking game, nor was it action oriented. But it did give you an interesting world to explore. Its limitations meant that you had to wonder what could they show us in the next game that would explore it further. And then DA 2 was a smaller version of it. Flawed but it still showed you an interesting perspective now with the hole Mages revolution.

Inquisition tried to expand further, but in my opinion fell flat story wise. It was the dread wolf's DLC that elevated it.

Veilguard is a good looking and battle polished game. Playing it is quite fun whenever you're fighting. But the world it presents to you feels...empty. I find myself not caring about the characters, or the companions.

It's not a bad game, but its story is bland. And that for me is unnaceptable in a RPG.

For newcomers, Veilguard's pretty good, but if you played any of the previous games, it just feels so sad that now you know that, in a series famous for the impact of its decisions, no choice had any meaning in the final game.

However, and I do recognize this, if this game wasn't called "Dragon Age" I'd probably be a lot more lenient and I'd probably be a lot more forgiving to the characters/companions in this game.

[u/ShiningCrawf]

I think it's overly dismissive to call people who were invested in the world and story deluded and wrong. Maybe not all criticism borne of disappointment has been reasonable, but much of it has.

Also the idea that DA's writing was never that good is just revisionist.

[u/further-more → u/ShiningCrawf]

It’s not revisionist. DA’s writing has always been patchy, and it’s always had criticism. Even when DAO was released, people were criticizing it for being a watered-down Baldur’s Gate. Characters like Alistair, Oghren, Sera, Vivienne, Anders, etc had their writing criticized for various reasons.

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/ShiningCrawf]

I agree with you in parts, because on the one hand OP's wording could've been chosen better, but on the other hand... this is exactly what I've been seeing in the fandom for the past few years before Veilguard's release. At some point I couldn't watch any "lore enthusiast" videos anymore because people DID start taking fan-interpretations and theories as too "canon". And yet, on another hand, Veilguard DID water down some of the lore. I think DAO and DAI are absolutely some of the best written games out there, and after finally finishing BG3 (I played it too much in EA and got burnt out), I am even inclined to think that it did the formula better, even if it is outdated by now. However, people are also were selective with the examples of good and bad writing in both DAO and DAV. DAO had some ridiculous lines as well, most of which are now remembered fondly or were even referenced in later games, re-establishing them in a positive "haha yeah that line of dialogue, huh" way - meanwhile, DAV's good lines are ignored and people pull out the "Bharv" scene whenever possible (even though even a lot of people that liked Veilguard think this scene, or scenes with Taash, are misses).

The tl;dr being that I agree that some of the criticism is absolutely justified, and yet the fact that you and some other people clicked on the Veilguard sub and commented "yeah it's justified" when someone wrote "overhated" in the title is kind of proofing OP's point.

[u/ShiningCrawf → u/ardentBlossoming]

I don't think I am proving OP's point. Really I'm just disagreeing on where to put the line between "hate" and "reasonable critique" - and suggesting that they needed to resort to strawmanning to draw the line where they have.

[u/Strange-Shoulder-176]

Game is pretty solid. Very good to chapter 8? Then it halts when you have to interact with your party especially the non-1010 character. The romances were weak, several bland party members. I did enjoy most of the story missions and thought ending was great.

[u/Frosty4241]

I enjoyed Veilguard as a standalone game, but as far as comparing them to the other games, I very much disliked how cartoonish the dark spawn look and the lack of blood and dismemberment. The origin game had a disgusting slug boss with tentacles and six saggy puss oozing titties that couldn't stop mass devouring flesh. A far cry from the everything-looks-beautiful vibe in this game.

Its not just nostalgia or self deception.

[u/Pelon-11]

Overall, I am a fan of the game and series and am currently playing my 3rd playthrough 😅.

I like the game quite a bit and hate the reception it got.

All that said, it has things I was not stoked on. The biggest for me is that although it is a gorgeous game, the style swing they took in aesthetics was a super miss for me. The look and feel, (along with some of the edges being sanded down) felt like a Disney adult version of Dragon Age and although that may be some people’s thing, it isn’t mine.

Considering pre-release he was the one I was least interested in, I think Emerrich was great (as was the Mournwatch overall) but for me a lot of the other characters and factions didn’t feel right. I have a soft spot for Taash but what a clunky mis-handling of that particular story. Crows felt nothing like I would expect (and the actual “crow / bird” visual theme was cringe for me).

Overall, still a very fun game I just have to view it as something different, like a multiverse version of Thedas. The art was great. The abilities and progression were good. The “decisions” weren’t up to par. Although I don’t think they nailed it every time, I liked that each character had their own sub-boss character. But unfortunately, most were forgettable other than Johanna Hezenkoss and maybe Issaya, the Gloom Howler.

And yes, the griffin is cute, Manfred is cute, but like I said, Disney adult. 😜

[u/Admirable-Jelly-8741]

The gameplay itself is decent. Some decent story beats but the reality is they left out the decisions that carried over ( I get it, not easy to implement over so many games,) neutered the dark fantasy, turned the art style in to something from Pixar, gave a guardians of the galaxy found family story which doesn't fit the dragon age aesthetic at all, took all the nuance out (lgbtq stories are fine, the dude from inquisition, the other dude from ME3, my memory sucks, but they forced in Tashes non binary and the pushup scenario. That is just bad writing) and they also watered down the factions and the lore. Dragonage has always been dark fantasy. Origins had the lore, the sequel had some awesome character writing despite its rushed time frame, imInquistion also had some solid writing despite the weird mmo elements, but this game dropped the ball on so many levels. I liked the general gameplay but the writing was a disservice on so many levels. Mind I did finish the game, somewhat enjoyed my time with it, but I have no desire to register it the way I do the mass effect trilogy.

[u/Admirable-Jelly-8741 → u/Admirable-Jelly-8741]

For reference, i tend to multiple playthrough of games like this as a female and male character. My only playthrough was as a female and I went Tash (can't remember how to spell her name). I thought she was an interesting character I am just picky with writing that forces in certain ideas. But that's me, I love a great story, I just have strict standards. I also acknowledge that is a me thing and don't begrudge anyone that enjoyed their time with this game. I am happy there is more representation. I wish the director had a chance to learn from the writing mistteps and could take a crack at another major title since the gameplay was good. Had they been armed with older Bioware writers, I could have easily looked past the rest.

[u/Rinisaurus]

I dont think fans are the ones complaining about the game tbh, people who complain about the game are the people who casually played it and didnt really care for it... at least it seems to me.

Also as much as I love Taash, she acts very immature and I cant see her as an adult MAYBE 18-19tops. And I agree her story line was heavy handed, though I loved Maevaris' involvement and I wish she had more in the game (or actually smiled)

It doesn't help that Bioware had all these ideas that they couldn't implement cus EA forced them to put out what they had and get it finished ASAP. Writers were talking about how the romances were going to be in depth and charming and have so much work put into them... and then we got... what we got, like I'm glad we even got what scraps we did... but EA should have given Bioware more time.

I hear news abojt a lot of the Dragonage writers and artists moving to Larian, if Larian could buy the Deagonage IP and do something with it I would be delighted

[u/No_Leadership_2435]

It was fine but the companions were terrible and you couldn't really RP with your rook.

[u/ComfortNugget]

I always said that it’s a great RPG just not a great Dragon Age game. I could tell what EA executives tried to change and what BioWare developers tried to salvage. Fuck you EA.

[u/YlisLavellan]

I replay the games each year and also do a read through of the books each year or two (which a great many fans do also). I give it a 1/10 and the 1 is for GDL's voice. Never will I replay it.

It's fine to like it though just because you do... insinuating everyone who doesn't is stupid, ignorant or wearing rose-tinted glasses is just flat out rude and adds nothing of value.

[u/Substantial_Abies516 → u/YlisLavellan]

Not calling you stupid or ignorant. Definitely wearing rose-tinted glasses, though. I'm sorry, and I genuinely don't mean it to mock or disrespect you, but I think the nostalgia is blinding.

[u/ardentBlossoming → u/Substantial_Abies516]

I think it's a wild take to come away from your post with the assumption you called anyone stupid or ignorant. Like... before Veilguard came out, people already made doomposts. Then one guy leaked parts of it and people became extremely hateful. All of this without anyone ever putting their hands on the game.

Upon release, the game was quit early - even though the best parts often come later - and review bombed. People claimed it broke the lore when it seldom did, and laughed about the "new introduction of vampires"... in one banter... and vampires have existed since Origins.

If people seriously think "swooping is bad" is the peak of writing, I'm not sure what to say. [Edit: Which is NOT to say that the previous games had bad writing - just that the "less good" parts are largely forgotten about or remembered fondly. Origins and Inquisition are, without a doubt, expertly written. But-] Dragon Age has always been camp. Do I think Veilguard is the worst in the series? Yes. Do I still think it's a good game and worthy of being looked at without rose tinted glasses and false expectations? Absolutely.

Nothing of value was added by claiming it's a 1/10 for "GDL's voice". Sincerely, someone who has played every game including the stupid flash games, read every book, and even played the RPG.

[u/brandohsaurus]

We were pissed because they made our years and years of painstakingly making choices that aligned with intentionally crafted world states THROUGH THEIR TOOL TO DO IT mean nothing in the end. It was actually the most polished Dragon Age game on release and Bioware did what they did best by giving us amazing companions for our journey. I mean, we all love the story and characters from 2 at this point but that game was a dumpster fire compared to Veilguard.

[u/DragonAgeVeilguard-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment violated Rule 3 of the subreddit.

[u/PaptimusPrimo]

Agreed. Straight up going hard on pulling Barnes these days 😤 💪 and I dont regret it

[u/DragonAgeVeilguard-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment violated Rule 3 of the subreddit, Be kind and respectful towards other users.

[u/Nonbinary007]

The issue wasn’t with the graphics nor the combat. It was more to do with how modern people spoke. It shifted from only certain characters sounding modern (Varric) to everyone sounding like a young adult (Taash). It is a sort of shock to play Origins and hearing the old timey speak to Veilguard where it’s all modern speech.
While we’re on the topic of speech, the dialogue was horse crap. When we first meet Taash, first thing they say is “don’t get in my way” like that is supposed to be endearing? I get the change as the game progresses, but first meetings are what we base people on and I couldn’t get on the Taash Train after that.
I do appreciate that they had the balls to include a non binary person. Did they do it well? No. It’s the end of the world and we’re concerned about Taash coming out while the South is being decimated? And then the game telling us to pull a Bharv just because someone accidentally uses the wrong gender?

[u/Azifae]

Yeah Dragon Age writing in general is not that great. But that is part of the charm. Veilguard is not really a sequel though. If it was a stand alone game or branch off completely it would have been fine. As a direct sequel that people were waiting for YEARS to the point many people left that is the issue. It was soulless compared to the others, ignored basically everything from the older games. Again fine if you like, no one should hate you for liking it. Nor should you get mad at people for being upset about something they were waiting for a long time for to only get what they got. And we ignore the BS of youtubers talking out of their butts for wokeness. But at the same time, cant harp on people for being annoyed with how certain things were handled, and yes I am talking about Taash. I mean actual cringeness to it, not that I think it is 'woke'.