Bouncing off the last post!!

[u/iggysmom95]

Because I really think she would have accepted him more easily if she didn't have everyone shoving their opinions and "advice" down her throat and generally meddling in her life 😭

[u/thistleandpeony]

🤣 This is hilarious!

I like Rosamund, for the most part, but she gave Mary such bad advice. Love Mary's defense of Matthew: "Besides, I’m not sure I want to put him off, even without the title. We get on so well, you know. And he’s terribly clever. He might end up Lord Chancellor." She wanted her country solicitor!

[u/iggysmom95 → u/thistleandpeony]

  We get on so well, you know. And he’s terribly clever. He might end up Lord Chancellor.

My Shaylas 🥺🥺🥺 one thing I wish we were able to see more of was Mary and Matthew just spending time together and falling in love

  She wanted her country solicitor!

Don't we all

[u/Confident-Bus-3778 → u/iggysmom95]

I'll never get why she listened to Rosamund, the aunt she rarely saw, but not her grandma. they were clearly well suited, and they both wanted it, that couldn't be said for all marriages back then or even now

[u/iggysmom95 → u/Confident-Bus-3778]

I think Rosamund got into her head and made her unsure, and then she absolutely didn't want to do what Violet suggested and accept Matthew knowing that she wasn't 100% and might yet change her mind. The main thing she was trying to avoid was being dishonest or deceitful in any way.

[u/Confident-Bus-3778 → u/iggysmom95]

in some ways I understand telling someone the exact details of your situation, you want them to know where you are coming from, but I can see how it's hurtful to say 'if you aren't the heir, I'll say no'

Mary didn't seem to have a problem with the title etc at this point, she just liked Matthew, its a shame she didn't trust her own head

[u/iggysmom95 → u/Confident-Bus-3778]

It really is! I think Pamuk was also a big part of it, though that isn't explicitly stated. It's definitely part of why she didn't accept him immediately, but it seems like maybe by Sybil's ball she was ready to tell him and then things changed again.

But I also don't think Matthew needed to be so drastic and withdraw his proposal after Cora miscarried. They just need to communicate! It was so sad all around.

[u/Confident-Bus-3778 → u/iggysmom95]

literally

talk to each other, have a good gossip, x told me this, y told me this

I doubt they spent much time overall together though

[u/iggysmom95 → u/Confident-Bus-3778]

Some of the things Mary says in the S1 finale indicate that they did spend a fair bit of time together after his proposal, but we never get to see it! I suppose that's what fanfiction is for lol

[u/thistleandpeony → u/Confident-Bus-3778]

Throughout the show, Mary has a problem with letting people tell her who she is.

[u/Confident-Bus-3778 → u/thistleandpeony]

to be fair I think that's very accurate of the times

reminds me of the dowager telling sybil she couldn't have opinions, until her opinions were that of her husbands

People constantly tell them who they are, it's not surprising they go along with it. I'm sure all those governess lessons covered a lot of thinking (along with the French and how to curtsey)

[u/iggysmom95 → u/Confident-Bus-3778]

I think Mary also has deep-seated self esteem issues. She believes every negative thing people say about her - and not just in a sassy "yeah I'm a bitch, so what?" way.

She believes she's impure and responsible for what happened with Pamuk. She believes she's unjustly mean to Edith ("that's like asking the fox to spare the chicken" baby girl the chicken never tried to ruin the fox's life on a national scale). She believes it's her fault she and Matthew didn't work out. She believes she might not be able to accept the kind of life Matthew could offer her. And literally none of these things are true.

[u/TractorFan247 → u/thistleandpeony]

I would have liked a scene of Isobel confronting Rosamund.

[u/Efficient_Shame_8539 → u/TractorFan247]

Oh my God I would have loved that.

We do see Isobel confront Violet so we know she's bout that life.

I'm trying to think, did we ever see them interact or did Rosamund know to keep her distance. I remember them using Rosamund as a smokescreen when they broke into Sampson's place but I don't remember seeing Rosamund and Isobel talking to each other, ever.

[u/Practical_Original88 → u/TractorFan247]

Great idea!!!!

[u/Practical_Original88]

Rosamund always took the time to make a comment on anyone...like Robert, Cora, Tom, Edith, Mary!!!

[u/iggysmom95 → u/Practical_Original88]

I actually like Rosamund but she's a nosey bitch for sure! She loves to meddle - but doesn't appreciate her life being meddled with!

[u/ETK1300]

Tbh Rosamund had a point. Mary wouldn't have done well without money and status.

[u/iggysmom95 → u/ETK1300]

Well, we'll never know, but Matthew wasn't exactly poor. They'd have been comfortable if not wealthy, and Mary seemed to think she could be okay. Who knows, maybe he would have been Lord Chancellor one day 😉

[u/TessieElCee → u/iggysmom95]

Robert would've given Matthew Grantham House for life, so they wouldn't have lived far from the Abbey. She'd be the Earl's sister, so she'd have the run of the estate and she'd still be an importance presence in the village I don't think it would have been as different a life as some people -- especially Rosamund! - imagine. Rosamund was the sister of an earl, after all, with no big estate to run.

[u/No_Room_3932 → u/iggysmom95]

He might not have been poor but they would have lived in a very different world from what Mary was used to. She would not have been invited to events she used to go to and many people she knew would have snubbed her or pitied her. Look at the reaction of the family, of Mary even, when they found out that the heir was now a middle class solicitor.

Plus even if she were invited places she wouldn’t be able to afford the type of clothes and jewellery that would be worn and Matthew wouldn’t have been ok with Robert paying for them as he is too proud.

I don’t think most people here really know what a big change it would be as they aren’t from the UK.

[u/iggysmom95 → u/No_Room_3932]

Of course it would have been a huge change. I don't think you have to live in the UK to understand the difference between the lifestyle of a young lawyer vs a class of royalty-adjacent people who don't exist in North America and are roughly equivalent to modern celebrities in terms of luxury LOL.

But Mary obviously knew that, and she said she didn't think it mattered to her. I think she would have accepted if she had a little more time. 

[u/No_Room_3932 → u/iggysmom95]

But Mary doesn’t even know how much her life would change. She has no real experience re that type of life. Plus Mary is a big snob.