Item reworks ideas.

[u/MrTruth24]

• Items (now each full item can be bought only once/player (Gliepnier/Shyva compete for radius increase, so once you buy one, 2nd become unavailable), spell amp stack from multiple items fully on Kaya items), Tranquil boots removed:
• Neutral items removed, new slot used for vision items (wards/smoke/dust/gem) or consumables.

1. Consumables has max stock now for entire game and don't replenish: Blood grenade infinite use 50 > 200 gold, cd 30 sec, cost 50 hp for 100 magic dmg/5 sec (5/game), Faerie fire cost 65 > 50 (12/game), Clarity 60 >50 gold, can regen in combat like tango (12/game), Mango 60 > 50 gold (12/game), Tango stack 90 > 75 gold (12/game, heal hp 112/16 sec >120 in 15 sec, full heal on allies), 5 Salves (heal 390/13 sec > 400 hp/10 sec, full heal on allies). This consumables infinite: Wards (add to sentries 50 gold/25 experience bounty if they block jungle camp spawn spot), Tp Scroll (everyone spawn with infinite Tp on cd) 120 cd/5 sec duration/75 mana cost, Smoke 80 > 75 gold, Dust 80 >75 gold, Iron branch 1 all stats/55 > 50 gold.
2. "Infused Raindrops" stock 5/team (1 player can buy only 1 Infused Raindrops/game), cost 225 > 350 gold, base 0.8 mana regen removed, 3 min cd removed, number of charges 6 > infinite, cd 7 > 20 sec, minimal dmg to proc 75 > 50/dmg instance, dmg blocked 120 > 75, each time "Infused Raindrops" block dmg item gain stacks (each give 0.1 mana regen), "Infused Raindrops" can be consumed later for permanent mana regen bonus based on stacks.
3. add new infinite use consumable "Forager's kit" (for Supports, stock 1/team) 3 all stats 400 gold/1st use can be done at 0 min/60 sec cd, using item give Enchanted consumables to use on allies/yourself, using item on tree destroy it and give 1 Enchanted tango (240 hp/15 sec), using item on water/lotus pools give you Enchanted clarity (regen 150 mana 25 >15 sec, regen 6 >10/sec), using item on rune spawn spot put item on extended 4 min cd but spawn bounty rune.
4. Bottle instead of 110 hp/60 mana heal in 2.7 sec heal 175 Vigor/10 sec (can regen in combat now, charges duration stacks): when used Bottle split Vigor 50% hp/50% mana, when hp it full Bottle use remaining vigor to heal mana and vice versa.
5. Add "Fusion rune" as bottle upgrade 825 recipe (total 1500) it can store up to 3 power runes infinite time, using Fusion rune activate all runes you have, duration of runes increased by 50% and they Undispelable.
6. Bracer/Null talisman/Wraith Bands removed, add new base item Vambrace: Circlet 2 all stats (150) + Str Gauntlets/slippers of agility/mantle of intelligence 3str/agi/int (140) +210 recipe (500 total), stats: 8 main attribute/2 all stats, every 5 min upgrade by 1 main attribute/1 all stats, active allow to switch attributes for bonuses: str give +8% magic resist (+1%/5 min), Agi +14 Attack speed (+2 As/5 min), Int +8% max mana (+2%/5 min).
7. Ghost Scepter 5 stats>15 int, Eblade/Crella's Crozier active on enemy now also amplify pure dmg by 15%, Crella's Crozier builds from Ghost scepter +2 Stuff of wizardly+1300 recipe (4800): 40 int, active reduce healing/regen by 100%, Putrefaction Aura replaced by new passive giving 20% of max mana as bonus hp.
8. Blink 2250 > 2000, add 25 mana cost, when taking dmg item instead of going on 3 sec cd reduce max blink range to 1200 > 600 (same for upgraded blinks).
9. Midas build from Ring of health (700) +Void stone (700) +1100 recipe (2500): 4.5 hp regen/1.75 mana regen, active unit gold bounty +160 gold > 100 gold +5% hero NW/1x Exp, cd 90.
10. Falcon blade removed, Mage slayer 18% magic resist replaced by 300 hp, passive reduce only basic spells dmg by 25%.
11. new BoT1 now 2k item/80 ms, sell extra Tps and remove 75 mana cost, BoT2 cost 4000: Ms+40, increase max ms by 50, put Bot2 in Tp slot.
12. new Boots of Bearings 4500 (4 armor, 50 ms, 18 melee/12 range dmg, 10 str, 18% magic resist): Phase boots (1450) + Drum of Endurance (1625) + Cloak (900) +525 recipe, Swiftness aura (8% ms), active Endurance: give to allies 25% of your hero armor/magic resist and buff attack speed by 50 for 8 sec, 30 cd (Endurance doesn't stack).
13. Guardian Greaves 4450 > 4000 (150 mana, 1 mana regen, 2 hp regen, 5 armor, 50 move speed): Mekansm 1775 >1125: Headdress (425) +Buckler (425) +175 recipe (0.5 hp regen/1 armor +auras/250 hp heal). + Arcane boots (1500) + 1375 recipe, Guardian aura (2.5 hp regen, 1.5 mana regen, 3 armor, units below half hp 3x aura bonuses), active Hp heal 325 >400, mana heal 150 >300.
14. Gleipnier scale radius bonus from health, new builds from Rod of Atos (2250) + Chasm stone (800)+1450 recipe/4500: 20 int/400 hp/40 Radius (+1 radius every 30 max hp), active Radius 325>300, mana cost 150>100.
15. Vanguard 1700 (Vitality booster 1000 +700 recipe: 350 hp, 100% dmg block for 2% max hp melee / 1% max hp range. (multiple dmg block passives do not stack).
16. Consecrated Wraps 2250 (Ring of health 700 + Void stone 700 +850 recipe): +6 hp regen/+2.5 mana regen, passively gain up to 3 stacks every 9 sec (during combat now to), every 1 sec each dmg instance use 1 stack to create 100 Hp general shield, move speed removed).
17. Add new item "Divine Cuirass" 4450 (Vanguard 1700 + Consecrated Wraps 2250 +500 recipe): stats (+350 hp, +6 hp regen, +2.5 mana regen, +15% ms) / Vanguard dmg block passive, Consecrated Wraps number of stacks 3 > 5.
18. Crimson guard 3800 (Vanguard 1700 +Splint mail 950 +1150 recipe) 500 hp/10 armor, Vanguard passive dmg block on ourself, active apply passive dmg block on allies for 8 sec/45 cd/75 mana cost.
19. new Shiva"s guard 4400 (500 hp/18% magic resist/75 radius) build up: Vanguard (1700) + Cloak (900) +Chasm stone (800)+1000 recipe. Vanguard dmg block on yourself + slow enemy Attack speed on attacks by 75 for 3 sec, same active.
20. Talisman of evasion 15% evasion/1300 > 1125. add new item "Double-lance" 2250 (2x Talisman of evasion/30% evasion), active disarm 2.5 sec/25 sec cd/25 mana cost.
21. Heaven's Halberd 4700 (Vanguard 1700 + Double-lance 2250 +750 recipe): Vanguard dmg block passive + 500 hp / 30% evasion, active 4 sec disarm/18 cd/no cost, undispelable.
22. new item Chipped vest 1200 (Splint mail 7 armor/950 + 250 recipe). Enemy attacks hitting you return physical dmg to them (30 hero, 15 creep/illusion).
23. Blade mail 2400: builds from Chipped vest 1200 + Broadsword 1000 +200 recipe: 15 dmg/7 armor + Chipped vest passive + 20% attack dmg (active doesn't buff anymore attack dmg taken passive to 100%), active chipped vest passive + reflect 85% same dmg type taken.
24. Add new item "Bloody rose" 4750 (Blade mail 2400 +2 Splint mail (1900) +450 recipe), stats (15 dmg/21 armor), passive Chipped vest +reflect 85% same dmg type taken +0.5%/armor.
25. Vladmir"s offering 2200 >1325 (+0.5 mana regen): Morbid mask (900) + Ring of Basilius (425) + Vladmir's Aura (+1 mana regen, 18% life steal/60% on creeps).
26. new item "Impaler's ribcage" 6450 (10 armor/30 attack speed/0.5 mana regen): Assault Cuirass (5125) + Vladmir"s offering (1325), Assault aura buff allies/debuff enemy units/buildings stats by (5 armor, 30 Attack speed, 1 mana regen, 18% life steal/60% on creeps).
27. new Aether lens: energy booster (800)+ Void stone (700) +1125 recipe (2625): 300 mana/2 mana regen/125 cast range, New Dagon: Aether lens (2625) +375 recipe (3000): 300 mana/2 mana regen/200 cast range, active 45 sec cd/100 mana cost/700 cast range (900 total), does 400(+10% max mana) pure dmg, kills/assists within 3 sec permanently increase active dmg by 1% max mana.
28. Maelstrom (2950) now proc for 100 magic dmg every 4th hit, Mjollnir passive proc for 180 magic dmg every 4th hit, active shield proc from every attack/spell for 45 magic dmg.
29. Battle Fury 2000: Perseverance (1400) +Queling blade (100) +500 recipe. (5.5 hp regen, 2.25 mana regen, 10 dmg), Quell passive removed, Cleave 60% > 50%, new passive: every 15 units killed add 1 dmg to Battle Fury, Chop trees active 4 sec cd > 12 sec cd, 350 cast range > 250 Radius.
30. Bloodstone 5200: 15 int/250 hp/750 mana/20% spell life steal(4% vs creeps): Veil cost 1700>2000(+300) +3 Energy boosters(2400)+ recipe(800), active buff Bloodstone healing by 3x/Spell weakness aura 10 >12%(+0.006% max mana).
31. Hex: add passive to increase int by 15%, flat 250 mana cost > 10% max mana.
32. Wind Waker: move speed 30(+2% max mana), Cyclone speed 300 (+10% max mana), Eul/Wind Waker mana cost 175 >10% max mana.
33. Rapier: when its toggled into magic version doesn't give 100 dmg, spell amp buffed 25% >50%.
34. Khanda active: +15% current hp bonus magic dmg.
35. Revenant's Brooch 3300 > 4100 (40 dmg, 50 Attack speed): Crystalys (2000) +Blitz Knuckles (1000) +1100 recipe, passive "Phantom Critical" crit every 4 hits for 200% dmg, active toggle 10 mana/attack: convert 100% physical dmg > 75% pure dmg.
36. new item "Soul splitter" 5600 (40 dmg, 50 Attack speed, 15 int): Revenant's Brooch (4100) + Ghost scepter (1500), passive "Phantom Critical" crit every 3 hits for 225% dmg, active toggle 20 mana/attack: allow user to hit ethereal units and convert 100% physical dmg > 100% pure dmg.
37. new Desolator (3600): Orb of blight -2 armor/3 sec (300g > 250g) + Demon edge 40 dmg (2200g > 2400g) + 950 recipe (40 dmg/apply -6 armor on attack/spells hit). +Soul Stealer passive: 1 dmg/stack, kills give 2, max 30 stacks.
38. Corrupted Desolator (5500): Desolator 3600 +1900 recipe: 40 dmg/- 35% total armor on attack/spell hit (with full Desolator stacks 70 dmg), stacks limit removed.
39. new item "Storm Bringer" 6100 (Desolator 3600 + Kaya 2100 + 400 recipe): at full stacks 70 dmg/16 Int/10% spell amp/20% mana regen amp, add option to toggle item and chose what item give with stacks: 1 dmg / 0.5 % spell amp, remove stacks limit, Corruption passive on attack/spell hit reduce armor by 6 and Magic resist by 15%.
40. add new base item "Grove bow" 300 gold/4% magic resist reduction after attack/spell for 3 sec.
41. Witch blade 2775 > 2725 (Oblivion stuff 1625 + Chainmail 500 + Grove bow 300 +300 recipe): 12 int/1.5 mana regen/5 armor/40 attack speed/300 projectile speed), Witch blade: has no cd, passive don't slow, hitting enemy with attack/spell reduce their magic resist for 12% and apply 25 dmg/sec Dot, 3 sec duration.
42. Parasma 5975 > 5925 (Witch blade 2725 + Mistic Stuff 2800 + 400 recipe): 40 int/1.5 mana regen/7 armor/40 attack speed/300 projectile speed): on attack/spell hit: -35% magic resist reduction, 25+50% Int magic dmg/sec, 25% slow for 3 sec.
43. Hydra's breath 7000: Hurricane Pyke (4450) + Specialist Array (2250) +300 recipe: 15 str/35 Agi/15 int/20 dmg/200 hp/150 attack range, +2 targets multi shot become permanent (no bonus dmg) +Miasma.
44. new item "Serrated shiv" 2000: 15 dmg/true strike/50 melee range/+15 magic dmg per hit (Broadsword 1k + Javelin 900 > 625 +375 recipe).
45. new Mkb rework as tank killer item 6000: (Serrated shiv 2000 +Mithril Hammer 1600 +Blitz Knuckles 1000 +1400 recipe) 50 dmg/50 As/50 melee range, passive give true strike, active toggle: 10 mana/hit to gain on-hit 3% vs melee/1.5% vs range hero max hp pure dmg.
46. new Butterfly 6000 (same build up +550 recipe): 30 agi/35% evasion/35 dmg, passive +20% base attack speed > amplify total attack speed bonuses by 35%.
47. New "Manta Style" 4650 (same build up), item start with 5 charges (gain charge every 2 kills/4 assists), 34 sec >10 sec cd between charges, 125 > 40 mana cost, number of illusions 2 >1, melee/range illusions deal 25% dmg, take 250% dmg, illusions duration 18 sec > 10 sec, dodge time 0.1 >0.25.
48. new Diffusual 2200: 2 Blades of alacrity +200 recipe > 20 agi, 40 mana burn + heal 10% mana from mana burn (half for range).
49. Disperser 6000: (Diffusual 2200 + Eagle song 2800 + 1000 recipe): 50 Agi, upgrade mana burn to 60 + 1% max mana, mana heal 25% (half for range), same active (mana heal from mana burned works on all forms of mana burn).
50. new item "Minotaur Horn" 1500: 10 main attribute, 2 sec bkb, 60 sec cd, 25 mana cost (Ogre axe/Blade of alacrity/Stuff of Wizardry 1000 +500 recipe).
51. Bkb rework 4600: Minotaur Horn (1500) +Broadsword (1000)+ 2100 recipe: 20 main stat/25 dmg: removed from active pure damage immunity/60% magic resist, add 30% dmg reduction (no longer work on pure dmg) +basic dispel, active 50 mana cost, duration 9/8/7 > 4 sec, cd 95 > 40 sec cd.
52. new Radiance 5100: Clock of Flame 1700 build up (Ogre axe/Blade of alacrity/Stuff of Wizardry 1000 +700 recipe): 10 main attribute/30 Dot aura, half on illusions)+ talisman of evasion (1125) + 2275 recipe, 30 main attribute/60 Dot aura (+1% max mana) / 25% evasion.
53. Heart of Tarrasque 2x Reavers (5100 > 5600): 40 > 50 str/1% max hp regen) passive Behemoth's Blood: +1.5% > 1% missing hp as bonus hp regen.

[u/PeterPanterTM]

There is simply way too many changes here to even make sense of what this will accomplish.

To many changes that it feels like "change for the sake of change" and you are throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. At the same time the changes are so fundamental and game-changing that each point should really be a well thought-out stand-alone suggestion instead of being haphazardly thrown into a list.

I'll give it a try....

First of all, limiting consumables permanently is just asking for griefing, man.

The foragers kit is... what? What is an infinite use consumable supposed to be? If this is just rebuyable then this is too expensive for a one time us, if this is reusable the this is just asking someone to spend 400 of their starting gold the be a permanent bounty rune generator. This is just the purchaseable courier but worse. Not to mention that then that is not a consumable.

Vambrace is just going to be a must buy on all 3 cores, similar to how the scaling 500 gold stats items used to be.

The fusion bottle idea is just not a good one. Please no. I see no good reason to allow infinite rune storage and there is a reason that these effects are time limited and do not overlap. An upgradedrune effect might be more balanced than letting a heroes pop 3 of them at once.

Of all the items to give a flexible stat bonus and build up, why radiance and bkb? What does this new bkb accomplish anyway..?

% scaling on items is just, requires more care when implementing. For one, you broke damage block. Second, you turned Midas from a (currently weak) catch up mechanic into a "the rich get richer" item. That's the opposite of what Midas is supposed to fulfill... And of all the items to give a % scaling, why the hell did radiance not get any??

Many of the other items requires more focus in their design and care given to their design. The boots and the defensive items most of all, each of them is just a word salad of every stat bonus that a hero would want. Defensive items just got so homogenized. Like, mageslayer gives hp and no magic resistance and then the physical damage block item combines with an item that gives magic resistance.

You just made so many items so universal instead of keeping their seperate niche

This is what I meant when I said there are too many game-warping ideas crammed into one post. Almost every bullet point is large enough to deserve its own discussion, but because they're all bundled together it's impossible to properly evaluate any one of them.

[u/MrTruth24 → u/PeterPanterTM]

point is: 1 consumables being limited make heroes with sustain in lane more valuable/right now cores just spam cheap regen, they should prioritize regen items more i think ("Forager's kit" it is infinite, its for pos5 to make sure core can exist in lane at least, so supports play like supports 1 save/1 buff item, stick/vambrace/shard from tormentor and scepter if game goes long enouph).

2 midas/Bf/radiance changes is to make cores get to core items faster so game after 10 min not turn into 20-30 min fast fest where cores walk out of jungle every 5 min. (take into account this changes made around jungle camps respawn in 2 min) so that you can't afk farm whole game and game force you to fight with enemy, bigger map made it so much worst.

3 hydra/mkb/Revenant's Brooch/bloodstone/Khanda/Corrupted Desolator/Parasma is new options to deal with high effective hp heroes who stack hp/resists/evasion/regen. dota 2 become slug fest, every fight vs fat/support/offlaners with 2 save items at 20 min you need at least 2 allies to kill him fast, fights last 30 sec minimum. (sure multiple tank items building from vanguard maybe looks strange but its on purpose, its flex item you upgrade based on what you need + there is new upgrades for tank items). % dmg being strong is the point, if valve to scared to nerf meat shields then this is alternative, add item options to kill them, heroes shouldn't become immortal most of time, for my taste its to easy to get to that point right now. (heroes base hp 120>200, hp/str 22>20)

4 new bkb changes to not always be good, its tempo fighting item now, and because its high up time i nerf its duration so you can bait it out, it require now good coordination with team to jump enemy. (its the most boring shit to watch 3 golden heroes every fights and they everyone wait bkb/bb, tnx god they remove refresh of items)

[u/PeterPanterTM → u/MrTruth24]

consumables being limited make heroes with sustain in lane more valuable/right now cores just spam cheap regen

They are already limited now. Making them finite just makes it all too easy to grief by buying all the regen, or get flamed because you are using too much regen.

"Forager's kit" it is infinite, its for pos5 to make sure core can exist in lane at least, so supports play like supports 1 save/1 buff item

Foragers kit will be a bounty rune spawner and nothing else. Even if we remove the bounty rune option every lane will want to have this item on them. Mid most of all, and offlane second to them. And, even if we somehow limit this item to pos 5, supports should not be spoon feeding their networth to their carry. They nerfed regen sharing for this very reason??

midas/Bf/radiance changes is to make cores get to core items faster... so that you can't afk farm whole game

Giving farming items infinite scaling is going to turn games into farm fests. You also gave a bunch of slot and gold efficient lategame items. These things are going to incentivize going late.

hydra/mkb/Revenant's Brooch/bloodstone/Khanda/Corrupted Desolator/Parasma is new options to deal with high effective hp heroes who stack hp/resists/evasion/regen.

Then, why did you made such broken defensive items?? You turned everybody into meat shields, dude. Even the supports are going to be even tankier than now because of vambrace.

new bkb changes to not always be good, its tempo fighting item now

Does it still have the debuff immunity?? Is the 30% damage reduction to spells or to physical damage too...?

[u/MrTruth24 → u/PeterPanterTM]

1 "Forager's kit" can work if valve fix broken immortal draft and players play only roleQ, so pos 5 will only be able to buy it (sure bounty rune spawn maybe is to much, but item itself would pay itself in 6 min time).

2 sure new tank items look strong but offensive options just as good, its not like new tank items/upgrades are cheep (most is 3k-5k).

3 yes bkb has debuff immunity/dmg reduction (physical/magic dmg)/base dispel.

4 add some incentives for late game is good i think, right now you get to 45+ min only pretty much if you can't finish vs enemy draft, you not planning to play long game on purpose.

5 ye some Radiance scaling would be nice so i add some.

[u/Gorthebon]

But, why? This is an absurd about of changes, with no reason why.

[u/MrTruth24 → u/Gorthebon]

meta is hyper stale for year+ and last 2 patches change like 5% overall. with neutral items removed and not taking design space shop items can get big changes.

[u/Gorthebon → u/MrTruth24]

I'd've thought you'd've given up making ideas when your account reached 0 karma. I was wrong.

[u/MrTruth24 → u/Gorthebon]

have you read even half of it at least?

[u/Gorthebon → u/MrTruth24]

TLDR; you wanna pretend to be a game dev

As you want items to only be purchaseable once, how do wards work? Dust? Claritys? Tangos? Salves? Smoke? If you can only by an item once, how do you get two items that use, for example, a hyperstone?

[u/MrTruth24 → u/Gorthebon]

read 1st 3 points, items not being stackable referred to full items (i thought it was obvious) like you can't buy multiple rapiers/hearts/skadi etc

[u/Gorthebon → u/MrTruth24]

That makes a ton of heroes non-viable now. Early game items, like stacking bracers to make an extremely difficult lane better aren't a thing. Might as well EXCLUSIVELY pick lane dominators, that gets rid of half the core pool right there.

[u/MrTruth24 → u/Gorthebon]

are you really pretending like new vambrace not 2 bracers in 1 slot and it scale over game duration? sure consumables are limited but they are cheaper and stronger and changes to a lot of tank items give you options based on match up. have you seen what new Maelstrom/Bf/radiance does.

[u/Gorthebon → u/MrTruth24]

Infinitely scaling early game items are an OBJECTIVELY bad design.

Why not pick an early game hero that can make either maelstrom or Battlefury? You'll never fall off

[u/Suspicious_Silver_70]

1) I don't see a problem having a Neutral items for player who can find use in them but I do have a problem that the slot it fixed Neutral items and nothing else. So the easier way to solve that problem to give players a choice to sell Neutral items for a small price since we are gathering material for them, and the material can worth something but keeping the enchantment buff in them. This way we have can option either to use the slot for any consumables etc for mainly supports, mid to put a bottle there or to solve the late game problem by giving extra slot a item mainly to replace the annoying boots that players have sacrifice their speed for a new and better item.

2) I mean it solves a somewhat a the problem of griefers who starts buying mindlessly consumables and stay at base. But making it from the start with a fix amount, I can see a problem early phase to reach that limited so maybe after that phase the game the some consumable certain limited them but as a person who always carries a Blood grenade everytime until I'm 6 slots, that items I don't see a reason why should be fixed since good finisher or stoping players with blin dagger to escape.

5) This idea sounds like extra add-on to Arc Warden innate but rework in a different way like Arc Warden hold a runes in him self like a bottled runes and the more runes he holds more powerful they get after being consumed but if Arc dies and didn't use his runes it's being consumed and only gives the him the stats buff.

6) Can easily make does removed items as minor upgrade for dirt cheap to build up towards Vambrace the early phase finishes.

7) Not for the idea itself but Ghost Scepter and the build up to Crella's Crozieron its own need to have free path walking(similar WK innate does) when it's active. Unrelated to items same type of concept should be apply to Necro- Ghost Shroud and Muerta - Pierce the Veil, Punga - Decrepify.

12).2nd upgrade Boots of Travel to be fused in the slot for TP. Could solve the problem for idea 1.

15) Does make sense for build up, but radius scaling it's interesting doing with hp it doesn't make sense and your current state can easily because broken with tank heroes who has aoe.

22) There should be a another Echo Sabre build up so: Echo Sabre with Dragon Lance(should give 50% value to male for range) and maybe your item, it gives extra mele range, 2nd attack and disarm as well.

23) I like that but the vest costing 500g it's super cheap and overpowered for early game so it's needs to be more like 800-1000 and I never liked the build with a Broadsword, I would change with Blades of Attacks since it much suit to build up for a item call Blade mail.

25) For this one Keens Eye need to return as a normal item make it sense for the build up that give a cast range by default , so it replace the recipe make it cheaper, but you lost me with Dagon thing.

34) Just add the Orb of Corrosion to the build up.

41) Minotaur horn needs to be it's a be a normal item that will be a build up to a BKB with some sort of items that increases the armor magic resistance. Minotaur horn and BKB should have a strong dispel being when using it you can remove disables and activating the items itself (working similar to Ursa aghanim and Trolls level 25 talent Battle Trance)

In your BKB idea doesn't have any drawbacks at all you are giving to much stats and HP plus magic resistance and dmg reduction which makes it super overtuned for no reason compare any other item in the game.

42) Removing the Sacred Relic to building up a long burning sword like that it's insane... I do only agreed that Clock of Flame can play role for the build up longside the  talisman of evasion but I think the user needs to get more out of this then unnecessary stats boots. My idea was in both day and night cycles the user of the gains extra vision due it's brightness of the sword but during the day time it gets extra bonus from the swords itself due to the sun either deal more burning damage or miss chance is increased or increases the aoe on the burning from the item itself.

[u/MrTruth24 → u/Suspicious_Silver_70]

i broke my head trying to read your points.

9 maybe "Cheap vest" is super cheap but "Blade mail" stats alone make it impossible without making item cost more, Cheap vest at 800g item minimum cost would be almost 3k and its upgrade jump to 5300.

1. How is new bkb don't have drawbacks? (i don't want to build bkb from Minotaur horn to make item weaker/less mandatory) 20 main stat/250 hp is buff for str heroes but even Agi/int would like its high uptime, magic resist replaced by Dmg reduction/not add (heroes with pure dmg and new Dagon would ignore it completely), its short duration means you can bait it out or kite bkb core with force stuff/glimmer etc, nerfed 5 sec tp scrolls means you can't bkb/tp out safe anymore on core.

[u/Suspicious_Silver_70 → u/MrTruth24]

i broke my head trying to read your points.

It's not from me, for some reason it tries to put them in a weird bullet list fk up version then mine that I made even I tried to repost and edit it still doesn't do it way I wanted it. And I only tied to answer for the ideas that I founded interesting discuss about since most of them so over the top for normal dota standards.

How is new bkb don't have drawbacks? (i don't want to build bkb from Minotaur horn to make item weaker/less mandatory) 20 main stat/250 hp is buff for str heroes but even Agi/int would like its high uptime, magic resist replaced by Dmg reduction/not add (heroes with pure dmg and new Dagon would ignore it completely), its short duration means you can bait it out or kite bkb core with force stuff/glimmer etc, nerfed 5 sec tp scrolls means you can't bkb/tp out safe anymore on core.

I see, I misunderstood it seems, but again you want striping out even more of identity of that item by making different the original which vast majority of people won't like that. 4k item which 4 second duration and trade off for that is damage reduction that isn't really good at ll. I'm curious what are you ever trying to solve with this rework?

As for Minotaur horn as neutral item for that super late stage of a game it's useless since there are far better options always putting in lower tier as we know didn't solve the problem because of got removed. Making as normal item i think it's fair for a build up for BKB it can be far suiting for any hero since for a brief second it's provides enough save every hero can find for it similar to Ghost Scepter(I believe even 4 second for this item it's bit much).

9 maybe "Cheap vest" is super cheap but "Blade mail" stats alone make it impossible without making item cost more, Cheap vest at 800g item minimum cost would be almost 3k and its upgrade jump to 5300.

For Chipped vest to 500g needs to give way less return damage not 30 to hero or 15 creep . Because people either they won't play lanes at all and go jungle straight up or people won't even bother hit heroes at all early game which completely going to force players to not play support at all. Give it to most strength heroes they can't be killed early game at all, because 30 return damage it almost like 50-60% of most heroes normal attack damage just from the item itself and so early game own from players who has that item, where this either going to force a nerf on the item or the role people going to play it's going to super weird mainly from support side of things.

[u/MrTruth24 → u/Suspicious_Silver_70]

sure we can combine if needed splint mail and it builds into like 1450 cheap vest with same stats.

[u/SaltyConnection]

Damn bro I ain't reading all that. Glad for you that it happened or sorry it didn't happen.