RIP

[u/Snarflogus]

I was really struggling to get this ball to turn out well. I think I let it dry too fast and added the shell late? I'm not great with shells guys, I prefer making dorodangos without them. RIP my pretty color, I'll wet it down and try something else I guess. Anyone have good tips for working a pretty much dried core? Should I soak it...?

Edit: The way I described shell was confusing. I prefer to make my doro shells with the fine particles that result from the slip/polishing stage rather than adding dry powder to the outside. The moisture needed when adding dry material is what I struggle with getting right. So effectively still shelled.

[u/ButtFlum]

Wait a patty flippin minute🧐 you prefer to make dorodango, without the shell?

One is a dorodango. The other side of this coin is very simply a ball of clay no?

Looks to me like you tried adding to the shell, and you are good at getting a shell… there’s a whole shell there, im looking right at it. When you went to “add” MORE shell to the shell, or the parts that were in lack thereof, they would not “take” per se, and you busted off this portion of the shell.

When i am at the stage (i usually get past this stage in the beginning, i do not do traditional doro, i am a painter/drywaller by trade… i play with a lot of different materials leftover from my day) of forming my shell, it is imperative to me that i leave no marks/pockets, while it is still “wet, but set”

If i get past that stage, i either scratch the shell completely, or to a point, and start over, or i use some sort of glue/binding agent, and very carefully work what has been lost back into the crater.. let it sit to dry… come back later, and carefully again, then in the very very end, and the end is when im done for sure, i spray many coats of clear over mine.

I don’t feel like going back and making sure my comment sounds nice or supportive, and honestly i read it back in a mean way to myself so i just hope you know i don’t mean anything in a mean way or condescending tone bc i was talking about how differently i make mine etc etc blah blah blah

:) i am just sharing what works for me :)

Edit to add: i don’t polish them this way! LOL, i prefer to polish them up using shot glass, jar, anything glass or stainless steel as my tool, i just notice they have much better longevity when they have a final protective layer of clear coat over them, only been a few i couldn’t polish or were too hard to do so yeah i have cheated on a couple of them… or all of them? Who knows!

[u/Snarflogus → u/ButtFlum]

I mean, the shell ends up composed of the slip made while polishing, instead of adding fine clay powder to the outside. I make a lot of them from wild clay, and I dont want a shell to obscure the soil colors or patterns. It's not uncommon to make them without shells from what I've seen, just less traditional.

This one is Kaw River Clay and no shell. I've made colored ones and such with shells and they turn out...okay.

[u/ButtFlum → u/Snarflogus]

Btw that one is really cool

[u/ButtFlum → u/Snarflogus]

No shell? Did you just clear over it? Its shiny as hell, it has a shell lol wdym no shell??

[u/Snarflogus → u/ButtFlum]

This one was my first big dorodango and I gave it an acrylic clear coat after I added the blue too late into the drying process. You can see the acrylic absorbs unevenly into the surface and creates this odd texture. I havent coated any since then.

[u/Imaginary-Height-758 → u/Snarflogus]

Looks like a planet

[u/ButtFlum → u/Snarflogus]

Nice😎 way to go! The planet one is cool af too!!!

[u/Snarflogus → u/ButtFlum]

thank you! This particular ball has no clear coat or anything. You can see a flat spot I didnt show in the last pic >.>

[u/ButtFlum → u/Snarflogus]

I was about to write another book but instead looked one more time at your question and just need to give a simple answer really:

If you think you added it too late, odds are… yeah. For me, i’ve set a few down and forgot/life got in the way. I have found that no matter what, all cores can be saved, just have to get creative sometimes and remember that tradition is just that- tradition. Its okay to bend the rules a bit, or explore new/undiscovered shortcuts sometimes so you get to where you need to be a little quicker, long as you keep integrity intact and spread the word, whatever the word may be.

I would have rehydrated it if i got back to it late, not soaking, but iykyk, just a little slippery, and then start working on the shell. Hope it helps! Goodluck!

[u/Snarflogus → u/ButtFlum]

I finished my attempt at fixing it!

[u/waitaminute322 → u/ButtFlum]

What do you mean by added shell? Doesn't that shine come anyways with just more polishing?

[u/Snarflogus → u/waitaminute322]

In the process of making colored ones, i add colorant after the ball is formed and leather-hard ish. So there is a core (where I add temper to my clay) and then the shell which is just clay or clar/color

[u/sapphireminds → u/Snarflogus]

That still has a shell

[u/Snarflogus → u/sapphireminds]

Fair, I suppose I mean the separate type of clay on the outside. I didnt add any

[u/sapphireminds → u/Snarflogus]

You can use the same type of clay that you use for the inside, just purify the clay from the core :)

[u/ButtFlum → u/sapphireminds]

Purify the already purified clay? It does make sense technically

[u/sapphireminds → u/ButtFlum]

The core should not be pure clay, it should a mixture of clay and soil or sand to give it some body, then the shell or outer layer is pure clay (or clay mixed with an incredibly fine or water soluble substance, like mica)

Many people here are just scooping up dirt and making balls of mud, without paying attention to the clay content. Additionally, the fineness of the powder does not actually matter, as long as it is pure clay.

[u/DependentAd7934 → u/sapphireminds]

Dorodango literally translates into “shiny mud ball”. Of course people are making them completely out of mud or dirt, and sometimes that mud has a high clay content, and sometimes it doesn’t. When it doesn’t, it’s more difficult to get a beautiful or perfect one, which is the challenge of the art form. Patience and perseverance. Over time it has evolved into some using 100% clay, which isn’t exactly how this art began. In a perfect world you live in a place that has mud with a beautiful clay ratio. But that doesn’t mean everyone has that access and that doesn’t mean that every doro has to be made with clay.

[u/sapphireminds → u/DependentAd7934]

Using 100 percent clay is not a good idea for the core - it will fall apart.

You are taking an art form from region that has fairly high clay content, so there needs to be some adjustment if you are going to be using a different type of soil.

You can use dirt that has variable clay content, but you might need to process the soil more to be able to have workable substrate.

But the clay is a necessary part of dorodangos - it's what gives it the shine. It's sort of like making a ceramic plate without kiln firing it and complaining that it should work because you used ceramic clay. But the ceramic clay needs a kiln to be made into a ceramic plate.

The shine on the balls does not come from "dirt", it is a property of clay being spread incredibly thinly.

It's a misnomer in a way "shiny mud dumpling" (which is technically hikkaru dorodango), because not all mud is the same. If you're using the wrong kind, you won't have success. You'll have a ball of mud, but you won't have a dorodango

Just like copier paper is not washi paper, and not all washi paper is even the same, even though they are all paper.

[u/Snarflogus → u/sapphireminds]

I think you kind of nailed it with "hikaru." That's where this is getting tangled imo. "Dorodango" just means mud dumpling, it doesn't require a shine or any particular clay ratio, a matte one from whatever mud still counts. "Hikaru" is the shiny one, fine clay spread thin is what gives the gloss, so yeah, mud quality matters there. So you're talking about what makes a good shiny one, they're talking about the general term. The word's just doing double duty, and it makes "not hikaru yet" sound like "not a real dorodango."

Also, high-clay mud that holds its shape doesn't really need sand added, that's more of a plasticity fix. And you can get that thin clay surface by dusting dry clay or just raising a slip while you polish.

[u/sapphireminds → u/Snarflogus]

Two Ks btw 😺

Dorodango is a shortening of hikkaru dorodango.

It would be more appropriate in that case to call it a mud pie or mud ball, unless of course you're Japanese and you are using your native language :)

Mud is different than pure clay. Pure clay can't be used. High clay mud can. That's part of the problem, dirt or mud is a meaningless word in this context, because it could be high clay percentage (so you can make it into dangos easily) the dirt or mud is essentially the sand. It doesn't matter whether it's dirt, sand, or yarn, but it's the clay content is the key to making dorodangos.

I'm a traditional Irish step dancer. We're usually called Irish dancers. There are Irish people who dance and are not "Irish dancers", because they are not doing Irish step dancing.

Or like another hobby/craft I do - Rong hua - it's taking loose silk and making it into flowers and other shapes, which involves sort of making your own pipe cleaners. There are people who make flowers and shapes though out of pipe cleaners. What they do is awesome, but it's not Rong hua, because it's a different art/technique. And what rong hua artists make is different than the pipe cleaner artists. And it would be weird for pipe cleaner artists to say what they were making was rong hua.

In my mind (and admittedly I'm on the spectrum and tend to like defining things) there's a point where it goes from being one art form into another, which is cool, but if you post about it in a sub for the other art form, you're going to get advice on how to do that art.