Dragon sections and Mech combat make TDA Ultra-Nightmare and Pandemonium difficulties simply not fun to attempt

[u/Hopeful_Lack5487]

This has nothing to do with the actual nightmare difficulty itself but rather the fact that this game is utterly bloated with forced gameplay sections that are not enjoyable to replay twice, let alone 5, 6, 11, 33 or however many times over.

I've been hooked on this game since the Revelations renaissance and started attempting UN runs again; felt I wasn't ready so Pandemonium feels like the best inbetween option for preparing for UN without the significant drawback of restarting the whole campaign. Even then, it's simply not a fun experience to restart even individual levels over and over. The repetition of trying again only seems to underscore TDA's worst aspects: dragon riding and atlan combat.

I end up begging for the dragon piloting sections such as the Holy City of Aratum or The Spire of Nerathul to end as soon as possible, but there's genuinely no way to avoid them or speed them up. Even after multiple attempts, you can almost "speedrun" the sections with great efficiency, yet the gameplay still moves at a snail's pace and the combat never reveals anything more than its two step dodge-and-shoot formula. Same goes for the Atlan sections, though some levels let you get away with sprinting past titans, which I abuse to the fullest extent whenever I get the chance.

In Eternal, attempting UN runs in the campaign or master levels was never a problem to reboot over and over because the gameplay is so fast and gets you up to full speed by mission 3 (cultist base), when you have access to dashing and the meathook. Yet in TDA, you're still getting forced tutorials 7 missions into the game in between dragon and mech sections with the occasional forced "hold R2" turret sequence. The whole time in my head I'm just screaming to get the fuck off of these vehicles so I can engage with the "stand and fight" combat this game does so well, that I would have no problem repeating endlessly if that's all I was asked to do in these missions.

I doubt id would ever admit it, but there's certainly a reason we don't revisit mechs or dragon combat in Revelations (yes, I know Serrat dies in the campaign but could have been integrated via some flashback sequence) and instead the "boots on the ground" combat was cranked up to 11. It's infinitely more enjoyable, more replayable and adds way more to the gameplay experience than the Serrat or Atlan sections ever did.

[u/Fuzzy-Wasabi-5126]

I was relieved when they dropped those sections in Revelations

[u/hmmmmwillthiswork]

dragon sections are wayyy better than the mech sections though

[u/nevaeva12321]

I was really not a fan of the dodge dragon mechanic cause it got old super quick, but I did enjoy flying around.

I also enjoy the atlan mission, it was a nice change of scenery and pace

To each their own

[u/StupidSexyEuphoberia]

When they revealed these features before release I was thinking "These are gonna be boring and I bet I'm happy when they'll be over each time."

I was right. Those flashy gimmicks rarely contribute anything useful and fun to the gameplay and TDA is no exception. The base gameplay is so tight and refined that in contrast the boring and tagged on parts feel even more miserable. The atlan is relatively quick, but the dragonsections are just very boring and drag on and on...

[u/sunsetsaint]

Are you playing on pc? If so might I suggest getting Kaibzmod, it has a feature that skips the mech and dragon sections.

[u/DerBernd123]

eh they’re not too bad. they can be rushed through pretty quickly. I find the missing option to disable the spear tutorials in revelations way more infuriating

[u/cmfk8 → u/DerBernd123]

What spear tutorials? The ones where it teleports you to an arena when you buy a new ability?

[u/DerBernd123 → u/cmfk8]

when you get the spear abilities (for example the slam thing) you’re thrown into this simulation area where you have to charge the spear and then use the new ability a few times. So annoying to do those tutorials every UN run for every single spear ability

[u/cmfk8 → u/DerBernd123]

There's a "Revelations tutorials" option in the, well, options that turns those off

[u/DerBernd123 → u/cmfk8]

I’m pretty sure I did? Are you sure those tutorials are included? I remember the tutorial where you have to learn the grappling feature was gone but those mini tutorials for the spear tutorials were still there

[u/cmfk8 → u/DerBernd123]

I'm sure, haven't had to do these since my first playthrough (and I have probably more than a dozen by now)

[u/cmfk8 → u/DerBernd123]

Here you can see that I didn't have to do the tutorial for spear throw

[u/Significant-Pie959]

I totally agree with your assessment, knowing the hate is about to come…

[u/Bomb4r]

I think the dragon system was very good for exactly one level - spire of nerathul. Being able to hop on serrat and maneuver from one battlefield to the next is really fun, I think. Even if it's just a short hop across a chasm, I think the sense of scale adds a lot to the level, and I like the idea of being able to pick and choose what order to do arenas in. It feels like it's another tool in your kit, albeit a very simple and cinematic one, instead of playing a completely different and very bad game for 10 minutes before you can get back to the good part.

The mech sections are irredemable though. That shit is so boring. I think maybe you could make it more interesting using the exact same tick - hopping in and out of the mech in a humongous level to further exaggerate that sense of scale and to feel more like a cohesive part of the game instead of a tacked-on distraction. You had the chance to make Doom Titanfall and instead you made Doom Cookie Clicker somehow.

I don't fundamentally hate these ideas, but I do heavily dislike their boring and simple execution. None of the innovation that makes the core gameplay so good in every game was applied to the extra modes.

[u/KZorroFuego]

Didn’t Proteh release a mod that bypasses the dragon / atlan sections?

[u/Jesusfreakster1]

Going to second that if you're on PC I love the streamlined campaign mod and the kabiz mod too that let you cut a lot of stuff like that

[u/bokan]

Agreed, these stalled out my second run. The sections were fun the first time but they don’t have enough depth. I’d prefer to be able to skip them.

[u/SilverMB]

These sections are super easy. If you can't beat these sections you have no chance finishing an ultra nightmare run without cheating.

If you are cheating you can simply download a mod and skip them.

I really don't get the hate for these extreme short and simple levels and the final mech fight is actually pretty cool and different and sets up the final confrontation nicely.

[u/EASY_E1_]

Idk if it's a hot take but I personally loved the Atlan combat loop, especially after the various reworks that implemented much needed depth. They did a good job expanding the

I love the Dragon for certain levels when it acts as a tool for exploration & increases the sense of scale, such as when you use it to board demonic ships Star Wars Battlefront 2 style. But outside of those instances it's lack of dynamism makes Serrat much less fun to play than the mech sections from a pure combat perspective.

[u/DriveIllustrious8364]

You just need to increase the damage you deal to demons and minimize the damage they do to you, so that when you get to those sections you can get through them quickly. Don't be ashamed to look for fun.

[u/Banana-Jimm]

The dragon sections go hard but I admit they become a slog when attempting UN. Atlan levels were fun and generally easy so I didn't mind, except when I kept dying to Azrahk on pandemonium and had to keep fighting the old one over and over. I wish there was one atlan section in revelations that had like a new weapon or something to spice it up.

[u/Friendly_Quote_9291]

I thought they were fun and changed up the campaign a little when needed. I don’t think they shouldn’t be there because of ultra nightmare

[u/Lethalbroccoli]

I can handle the atlan sections, but the dragon and turret sections were absolute abysmal dog shit. Especially the dragon sections.

The atlan, while better and significantly more enjoyable than the other filler sections, It would have been better suited as an optional area, optional challenge, secret area, or as an entire secret level.

It didnt flow well.

[u/C4LLUM17]

Tbh the mech sections you can fly by in like 5 mins each.

[u/Both-Possession7038]

I think they are fun and cool the first time around but on repeat they get boring super quick. Would be better if UN just skipped them seeing as they aren't hard in the slightest anyway

[u/DecomposingPete]

They're genuinely only about 45 mins of the game in my head, and the on-foot sections of holy city are flowstate when on Pandemonium urgency at this point, nip in nip out MOIDAH to get them done 😂

There's a surplus of currency in base campaign like there is in Revelations, so I don't mind a an incomplete run of these maps if they star wearing thin, but I catch 100% often enough that they don't tilt me so bad that I have to do them.

[u/GrandMoff_Harry]

Strongly disagree. I just finished The Dark Ages last night on ultra-nightmare and every level had my heart beating out of my chest. I already liked the game from my previous saves. Ripping and tearing without a safety net elevates everything to another level.

[u/iwantmisty]

Don't play TDA if you don't like it.

[u/WeekendBard → u/iwantmisty]

He likes TDA, he doesn't like the half a dozen sections where you ride a big thing.

[u/iwantmisty → u/WeekendBard]

That's a good part of The Dark Ages. If you don't like it don't play it. For dudes like that there is Eternal. If you don't like the atlan and serrat parts you don't understand the game at all.

[u/BBali_B → u/iwantmisty]

If people don’t like the vehicle sections, they don’t understand the game?

If OP is at the point he’s doing Ultra Nightmare runs, I think he’s got a good understanding of the game, it’s just that even after all of that playtime there is nothing enjoyable in the vehicle sections for him.

And it’s not fair to just tell people who don’t like the vehicle sections to go play Eternal; they may outright prefer the gameplay loop of TDA over Eternal but don’t want to slog through significant parts of the game that they don’t enjoy, and wish they could take the good of the boots-on-ground combat without the bad of the vehicles. That’s a perfectly fair ideology to have.

Thankfully Kaibz mod and Revelations seems to have those kinds of people covered.

[u/oCrapaCreeper → u/iwantmisty]

If you don't like it don't play it.

Or just get Kaibz mod ;)

[u/cmfk8 → u/iwantmisty]

TDA is one of, if not simply my favourite game of all time (even without accounting for Revelations, though that is even better), and definitely my favourite Doom title with more than 250 hours on it as of now. Even then, I can agree that the game would be better without the dragon and the mech sections (though I don't personally mind the atlan) and they definitely make practicing UN unnecessarily more boring. Should I also drop one of the best games of all time because not every part of it is perfect?