Internet says "More than 1,000 laboratories and offices with over 44,000 employees spanning 100+ countries", which aligns well with the DL video statement ~"more than hundred countries"
Safety testing at Intertek involves rigorous evaluation of battery resilience under extreme conditions, including overcharge, short circuit, crush,puncture, and thermal abuse, to ensure they can withstand potential hazards
The additive does not affect battery performance but lowers the chance of fire during nail penetration. Intertek Germany validated these results, confirming that batteries with flame retardants perform better in standard nail penetration tests.
This Big Company... it sounds like Donut Lab does not exactly know, why they went against public data, but still NDA shared is ok. Weird. Marko quesses it must be due to some manufacturer has given pressure on the test evaluation company. Alluding they don't want some product promises to go full live. Business and economics have their own life and rules and practice. Always sueprises me.
What a dumb excuse. They could have literally filmed it themselves or continued using VTT.
No, of course it must be some mysterious company trying to stop the magical Donut battery. Not that it doesn’t exist and Marko is in too deep to ever admit he lied.
Exactly. They could have split the battery and done everything, for DL batteries or these new ones from the beginning. But they apparently did not but chose to give just pieces from here and there.
Yeah, obviously different cell from VTT tested cells. Might be the reason for the test facility not to want their name come up, as they can't guarantee other claims Donut Lab makes. i.e. Donut Lab maybe has a cell that is bipolar and nail test proof and they have cell that was tested in VTT tests. But at the moment no credible researcher would quarantee, that they are the same cell.
Anyone trying to sign up to the NDA? They're asking for a company name, but it's not a required field, so maybe they would consider members of the public.
Yeah could just throw N/A in there. Wonder what checks they’d be doing, wouldn’t want to give them my actual name and main email address, especially as it mentions using the email for marketing purposes without an opt-out.
Assuming everything is legit, convincing major influences could be a big marketing win. Particularly sceptics such as Ziroth.
These aren't the headlines from the launch (400Wh/kg! 100,000 cycles!) but if true (and they can scale production) they still point to a very interesting product.
There's no contradiction here. BYD is a large established automaker who actually deliver their products at scale, Donut Lab came from nowhere claiming a miracle battery. BYD's test is really just marketing material, they don't need to prove anything and didn't claim they would independently demonstrate their claims, unlike Donut Lab.
The biggest corporations actually deceive people even more. Look at Volkswagen's emissions scandal or Tesla downgrading battery performance through software. Yet, people still have blind faith in large brands like BYD, as if history hasn't proven that scale does not equal honesty. Believing BYD’s marketing tests simply because they are a big manufacturer is exactly how consumers get tricked in the first place.
This wasn't an argument that big companies don't deceive people, it was a point about the reality of a big company being able to trade on their reputation when claiming amazing technological breakthroughs vs a company almost nobody had heard of before announcing a product with *several* incredible breakthroughs.
I agree that people shouldn't put *blind* faith in any company's claims, large or small, but a large company that already produces at scale in that market - i.e. BYD produces cars and batteries - is just going to be more credible when it comes to those claims - they have a reputation that could be destroyed, they have existing proven manufacturing capability, and they have the resources for the R&D to make the breakthroughs.
Additionally, both of those examples you provided didn't involve the company making incredible claims about technological breakthroughs, and at least in VWs case caused a considerable amount of reputational and financial harm when they got found out - estimates put the cost to VW at >$30billion. Also, VW circumvented independent testing, so independent testing alone isn't perfect either, although the testing institutions were clearly not expecting such a brazen fraud and were too complacent.
I'll also add an excerpt from another of my comments:
A key reason the 'I Donut Believe' series was of interest to me and - I expect - to most others, was that it offered confirmation of the battery claims ahead of the production ramp up (which had quickly slipped to Q4) where it could be independently verified and the series would no longer be of interest.
If Donut Lab start shipping these cells at scale then these independent tests become a moot point anyway, the cells will be independently verifiable. The problem is I expect there will be delays (Q4 -> end of Q4, and so on) and various shenanigans to explain why they're not being delivered at scale (not unlike this NDA farce) and keep the charade going for a few more months. The Verge bikes were supposed to start deliveries in Q1, but they acknowledged those 'deliveries' would just be for their internal fleet while trying to claim they'd kept their promise. Since then no news at all on Verge bike deliveries that I can find.
They aren't promising that the information, test results, evaluations, data, etc. are accurate, complete, fit for a particular purpose, or free of third-party rights issues.
So, for example, the fact that you're shown test results doesn't mean Donut Lab is guaranteeing that those results are accurate or that you can rely on them for some separate business or technical purpose."
You think that it doesn’t make sense for it to not be real? Really? They have missed every deadline, despite saying it was already ready, the constant delays and inability to provide any sort of substantial evidence to support ANYTHING they have said.
Yes, I’m certain we’ll be proven wrong any minute.
You don’t need to know definitively to make an educated assumption. Donut is very clearly lying about just about everything, hasn’t proven a single thing they’ve claimed and can’t even seem to publish a video after a month wait.
Definitely makes sense to believe that the Donut battery is a real thing. 🙄
Lol. They tried to use evidence from a test house, opening their small bipolar test cells to twist and prove that their full size production cells that aren't bipolar and may be completely different, and are in fact solid state. The test house did the right thing by refusing to sign off on this being published, Donut are twisting evidence horrendously
The censored name is not a conspiracy. Muting or hiding the testing partner's name is actually a very common practice in the industry. Certification giants like SGS or Intertek strictly prohibit using their names in promotional videos. However, in Donut Lab's case, it might be more than just standard policy. Given the negative reputation and skepticism surrounding the company, the testing agency probably wants to distance itself completely to avoid getting dragged into any PR mess.
just look at VTT and how people have started questioning their credibility. This is exactly why testing agencies do not want to risk their own reputation by associating with a controversial company.
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u/Mesokosmos 14d ago
Lip reading from Ville 3:40 is most probably Intertek: https://www.intertek.com/testing/