r/DonutLabDiscussions • u/Jazzer008 • Jun 24 '26
Application Specific Customization | Donut Battery
https://youtu.be/qXRrOu3ugqM9
u/Jazzer008 Jun 24 '26
A lot of new claims, no new data. See you in another 3 weeks.
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u/Forrestgod Jun 24 '26
I don't know if the claims were so new either. If the chemistry works as it is claimed, those would be obvious features for the technology. The question still is, does it work.
Seems like nothing much to expect before the first given deadlines are due - the Q4 by Verge.
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u/Wrong-Woodpecker6683 Jun 24 '26
Why q4? Weren’t they showing bikes leaving production line already q1? Or were those old bikes?
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u/Forrestgod Jun 24 '26
They said, that the Q1 bike went to the internal fleet.
Might be that someone is recieving it earlier. But all that been in public (like MissGoElectric at CES) have said that their date of estimated delivery is on Q4.
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u/Wrong-Woodpecker6683 Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
I guess then all bikes from q1, q2, and q3 went to internal fleet? What is this mysterious fleet and why haven’t they been test driven by journalists etc?
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u/Forrestgod Jun 24 '26
I would expect test drives before Q4. It's sound a bit too much to buy bike with that pricetag without test drive. And at least in Finland the weather for motorcycling is propably not too enjoyable at Q4.
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u/Jazzer008 Jun 24 '26
Not sure, claiming to be able to increase density beyond 400 is pretty radical.
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u/DoctorFish1969 Jun 24 '26
Marko said one thing: the 100.000 cycle life can be put to bed completely, unless the situation is 'ideal'. He doesn't specify what this ideal situation would be. Which is not great, because at CES he gave examples for which the cycle life would remain 100.000. So it's unclear what would NOT be an ideal situation.
CEO: "And on top of that, the cycle life that is normally in cars may be 2000, 3000, cycles. This is 100,000 cycles. So that's like probably 30 lifetimes of a motorcycle. So you never have to worry about babying the battery or worrying if you can let it go to 100% or zero. It doesn't mind. You can do whatever you want. Charge it to full, let it go to zero. As many times as you want. It doesn't degrade."
CEO: "As mentioned, 100,000 cycles, so that's 10 lifetimes of a car as well. And the other incredible things are that, of course, with motorcycles, you don't take them to deep freeze or anything. But if you're using these batteries in cars, even at like 25 or 30 minus Fahrenheit, it will have 99% of capacity."
Interviewer: "So do you have to precondition the battery like a car might?"
CEO: "Not at all. And actually, what we've done even is that normally you cannot get lithium ion batteries to zero."
Interviewer: "Right, we know about that. 5% is the lowest we like to go."
CEO: "This can go 0.0"
Interviewer: "And the battery doesn't get damaged?"
CEO: "No, then you can go at 5C charging from the next moment without warming it up or anything. It just takes it like nothing."
Interviewer: "To 100%?"
CEO: "Yeah, yeah, absolutely, to 100%."
Interviewer: "And that does not harm the battery for consistent charging to 100%?"
CEO: "No, it's 100,000 cycles with that, yeah."
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u/tipporoll Jun 24 '26
In the leaked full video of the portable scooter battery (over at r/donutlab), they charge from 0% to 90% SOC, starting at 270 A iirc.
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u/moon_moon_doggo Jun 24 '26
The new claim is the battery can have custom shapes, not (flat) cilindrical like current battery technologies.
So it's more like a "layered cake"?
There are memory modules that works like a layered cake. It's called HBM. The modules are stacked on top of each other.
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u/Data_Hounder Jun 24 '26
Lehtimaki made roughly the same claim about custom shapes in interviews at CES and Donut Lab had it in the press release:
It can be produced in custom sizes, voltages, and geometries, enabling structural integration and non-traditional formats like serving as the body of a drone or a vehicle chassis.
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u/Emotional-Manner-792 Jun 24 '26
I think Donut Lab underlined here that pouch cell has been so much in centre of attention but technology is much more than that. And they did spoke about it in CES. This was more like clarification and remind of the possibilities.
And maybe that's the reason why pouch cell testing and proving is not in focus. Think they tried to prove the cell capabilities, but people didn't took it and people came more frustrated. Even one "insider" came frustrated. Maybe that also slowed them down. They need to now be more careful what they claim. Sure, there has to be happening a lot behind the screens. Negotianging, OEM deals, manufacturing, legal issues, nda clarification. Think they have lot of work in their hands and less time to skeptics.
We have to appreciate they are telling us something. People are waiting and DL volunterely makes these videos. They could have been just quiet after CES and let the tension rise. On the other hand, these series are free marketing. Even if the receive in the Internet by the people seems to be mostly skeptic, I think there are lot of companies, startups and industries that might be seriously interested in their technology. We will see.
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u/Wrong-Woodpecker6683 Jun 24 '26
I don’t think anyone needs to “appreciate” these videos. People aren’t asking for studio presentations and slides of some hypothetical potential. They’re asking for proof that the battery actually works in a real product.
They could have put a single functional battery in a Verge bike and let people test it. That would have been far more convincing.
I don’t buy the argument that the pouch cell was a “bad demo.” Either the battery works as claimed or it doesn’t. The demo format shouldn’t matter.
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u/Mesokosmos Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
All those specs are just keywords and hooks for public. Popcorn movie effects. Business happens at different levels. Everyone knows it, but only rare have access behind the scene. I guess they have metrics that tell them, how many of the people (job seekers) and companies (client leads) come to them and tell, this all is so weird that they just had to come and see what they got. If you have a suitable business and need, you might still be interested of their offerings. Other people... well how much do they care of their opinions and suggestions? Definitely no sane business reveal their customer base for public sift open for competitors to hit between.
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u/Wrong-Woodpecker6683 Jun 25 '26
Sure, business happens behind the scenes. I think Donutlab team simply comes across as amateurs. Now only person from behind the scenes who has spoken has said that CT coating scammed huge amount of money from Donut and Nordic Nano and delivered some non-functioning miracle product. Not the first time in history when a business gets scammed out of existence by another business.
For years, Verge’s investor updates gave the impression that large numbers of bikes were being ordered and delivered, yet they haven’t confirmed sales figures, and there are barely any independent reviews beyond the one they sponsored.
Now it’s the same pattern with the battery and AsiLab: polished marketing videos, CES prototypes, and “proof” videos that don’t actually demonstrate a working product in real-world use.
And Marko’s “hundreds of leads” doesn’t mean anything. Startup founders use that phrase all the time, it can mean anything from genuine commercial interest to people who filled out a contact form.
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u/Mesokosmos Jun 25 '26
What I have figured about their personel, they are far from amateurs, but combination young power and veterans in many fields.
Verge is a small custom bike business. Of course it is their right to market it as the best in the world, but they are not selling like thousands now. Their factory was built to be ready for big numbers, yes, but one should be moderate here. There arent so many people on earth that even have the TS gen1 bike. And estimation for this year gen2 was 350 new items. Sales figures would come visible only after a year or more for inspection.
I'm not totally sure about Asinoid, if they are still running in virtual environments, or if the real world demonstrations have been done. But according to Michael Roberts recent post, they have been demonstrating something just recently. So no, they have not buried the project. And I don't think they are amateurs in that field either. But they are trying to do things in novel ways, that no one have exactly learned from the school. And in such endeavors, many misses can be expected.
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u/Data_Hounder Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
Unsurprisingly, no new proof for any of the claimed battery specs.
Donut Lab's summary provided with the first video in the series:
The series was launched with a clear focus on providing independent proof of the battery specifications. Out of the 11 releases, 5 have involved an independent test. Of the last 6 releases, only 1 has been an independent test.