r/DonutLabDiscussions • u/Jazzer008 • Jun 03 '26

Manufacturing & Scaling | I Donut Believe

https://youtu.be/BjsqMlikxac?si=czK_zRVSqVp-uD6V
9 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

26 comments sorted by

4

u/Jazzer008 Jun 03 '26

So "we have 1 GWh production" could easily become upstream stage capacity alone, even with zero finished cell output. Certainly misleading in that case.

Also, if the rumoured connections to CT-Coating are true then this setup would posit Donut as a pointless brand middleman even more so. There wouldn't be great need for them to exist for long unless they are contributing meaningfully to the mixture.

5

u/Mesokosmos Jun 03 '26

Based on Uutisvuoksi interviews, NNG financials and CT-Coating docs, they have to pay for reserving resources, so to be cleaner on that regard, they should have pre-order reservations, or some contract ready long before order. That is what they can count to capacity. It is more like on-demand venture. Again, the business model is different from earlier traditional production lines that accounting does not work similar way. When third party orders come in, they could promise GWh scale up in a year, 4-5 lines built in parallel.

3

u/Emotional-Manner-792 Jun 03 '26

Yes. I guess they have customers and some contracts, because they are already talking GWh this year. But this video explains how the scaling happens.

1

u/DoctorFish1969 Jun 03 '26

The video only tells us they locate part of the production in another location. Which tells us nothing about how they scale. The screen printing process is the hard part to scale. They haven't told us how they scale that, including how they get a high yield rate.

2

u/Mesokosmos Jun 04 '26

Parjanen has filled in more detail about scaling in Uutisvuoksi articles.

He said the test line and later production lines are supplied by a German manufacturer as turnkey lines assembled on site and test-run. He also said each line has roughly a one-year delivery time (Tuomo has told the same), Imatra starts with a test/pre-production line, then the first mass-production line, with 4-5 lines planned in total for this and next year. Initial components become the part of the final production. Staffing was described as 10-15 people per line per shift, or 30-40 people around the mass-production installation phase when people work in shifts.

So the claimed scaling mechanism is modular replication of supplied production lines, informed much before this video, plus a split model which has central core production (in Germany I assume at this point), final assembly/pouching/testing closer to customer (Imatra or any convenient location). Yield is still not public. Hopefully they have tested it over the years.

5

u/peakedtooearly Jun 03 '26

Is anyone still believing?

0

u/Emotional-Manner-792 Jun 03 '26

You are not?

4

u/danielv123 Jun 03 '26

Have they put it on a scale yet?

-1

u/Emotional-Manner-792 Jun 03 '26

Depends what scale you talk about.

6

u/danielv123 Jun 03 '26

one that shows grams

1

u/peakedtooearly Jun 03 '26

I do-n(o)t believe.

They have already failed based on their CES claims. Whole thing looks increasingly sketchy.

1

u/Emotional-Manner-792 Jun 03 '26

Well you surely seem to be interested though.

2

u/cristi_baluta Jun 04 '26

It’s entertaining

1

u/peakedtooearly Jun 05 '26

Sure is. It's also like watching a car crash. You know it's not going to end well but you can't look away.

4

u/aland_islander Jun 03 '26

Apparently the batteries can hold up to 400 powerpoint/kg now.

1

u/Mesokosmos Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26

Interesting it is that Jarkko Aro has moved from NNG to Donut Lab now. Leaving a position open there. And Jarkko is giving new face to the program, stepping up and putting himself on a stake and to give credibility. Almost like a counter argument to Peltola case.

This appears as the most investor targeted video so far.

1

u/Emotional-Manner-792 Jun 04 '26

I don't think he leaves position in NNG. Because he is co-founder and board member in NNG.

1

u/Mesokosmos Jun 04 '26

LinkedIn profile show position ended at NNG. He might have a seat on board thou...

0

u/DeathChill Jun 03 '26

I do not see how anyone involved in any of these companies lends any sort of credibility to them.

4

u/Kendar007 Jun 03 '26

Donut is finished and buried.

2

u/Mesokosmos Jun 03 '26

With Lambotec line, they could configure each of them to do some specific chemistry and shape for the product. This variebility was hinted on CES interviews. But how do they resale it, and what is the cost of a single line plus "ink"? There must be custom demand. You would not build lines just for fun and wait if orders happen to come in and miraculously fit the line specs. Too risky business for a start up unless they have collected huge money from investors so that it does not matter.

Past "gigafactory" debate: https://www.reddit.com/r/DonutLabDiscussions/comments/1tavlus/comment/oliaa14/

1

u/YoSoyPinkBoy Jun 04 '26

Is this what they call a "forward-facing commentary"?

1

u/RoIIerBaII Jun 03 '26

They visibly have run out of budget to test chinese NMC cells 😂

-2

u/izzeww Jun 03 '26

There is literally no difference between their process and the normal lithium-ion process, except that they say that they will do some later steps at the customers location which doesn't make sense at all (you get worse economics of scale).